Intel junk...Kernel-memory-leaking Intel processor design flaw forcesLinux, Windows redesign

In article
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Wolf K wrote:

Ground effect heat pumps will cut heating/cooling costs by at least 50%.
They are twice to three times as efficient a air-to-air heat pumps, aka
"air conditioners".

Not a new technology either. A local theatre recently replaced a ground
sink AC system that was installed in 1934 by Carrier, using an underground
ammonia loop.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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In article
Electric Comet wrote:

On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote:

has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new
processor without the design blunder.

not a blunder it is deliberate

I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others
for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten
out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this
is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel
machines.

So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by
script kiddies.


Paranoid Pete

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On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete
wrote:

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Hash: SHA512

In article
Electric Comet wrote:

On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote:

has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new
processor without the design blunder.

not a blunder it is deliberate

I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others
for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten
out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this
is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel
machines.

So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by
script kiddies.

For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such
backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was
before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010.

On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete
wrote:
In article
Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote:

has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new
processor without the design blunder.

not a blunder it is deliberate

I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others
for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten
out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this
is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel
machines.

So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by
script kiddies.

For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such
backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was
before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010.

AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one
of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also
suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet.

ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs.

The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix
made available because the company making them considers the devices or
OS simply "too old" to bother with.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name
wrote:

On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete
wrote:
In article
Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote:

has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new
processor without the design blunder.

not a blunder it is deliberate

I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others
for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten
out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this
is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel
machines.

So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by
script kiddies.

For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such
backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was
before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010.

AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one
of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also
suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet.

ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs.

The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix
made available because the company making them considers the devices or
OS simply "too old" to bother with.


What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013
(i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits.
Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being.
Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but
much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed
with Intel right now.

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2018-01-15, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name
wrote:

On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete
wrote:
In article
Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote:

has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new
processor without the design blunder.

not a blunder it is deliberate

I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others
for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten
out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this
is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel
machines.

So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by
script kiddies.

For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such
backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was
before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010.

AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one
of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also
suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet.

ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs.

The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix
made available because the company making them considers the devices or
OS simply "too old" to bother with.


What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013
(i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits.
Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being.
Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but
much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed
with Intel right now.
I'll wait for price drop to buy vulnerable CPU's

--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...

On 2018-01-16 00:01:17 +0000, Melzzzzz said:
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2018-01-15, Doomsdrzej wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name
wrote:
On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete
wrote:
In article
Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote:

has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new
processor without the design blunder.

not a blunder it is deliberate

I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others
for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten
out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this
is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel
machines.

So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by
script kiddies.

For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such
backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was
before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010.

AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one
of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also
suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet.

ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs.

The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix
made available because the company making them considers the devices or
OS simply "too old" to bother with.


What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013
(i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits.
Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being.
Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but
much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed
with Intel right now.

I'll wait for price drop to buy vulnerable CPU's

That may take a while. According to Intel, and probably the other
makers too, the next few chip releases will still have the bug because
they have already been designed and are being manufactured. (2020 might
be the date quoted for when actual fixed CPUs *might* start shipping,
but I may have that year wrong.)

On 2018-01-15 23:40:58 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name
wrote:
On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete
wrote:
In article
Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote:

has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new
processor without the design blunder.

not a blunder it is deliberate

I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others
for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten
out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this
is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel
machines.

So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by
script kiddies.

For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such
backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was
before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010.

AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one
of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also
suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet.

ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs.

The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix
made available because the company making them considers the devices or
OS simply "too old" to bother with.

What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013
(i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits.
Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being.
Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but
much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed
with Intel right now.

The actual amount of slow down depends on a lot of factors: your
computer, the OS, the apps you use, what you do (simple word processing
would be less affected than say complex 3D or video rednering), etc.
Apple's fixes have reported had pretty much no noticeable affect ... so
far.

Doomsdrzej wrote:

What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013
(i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits.

If you're running it at 80% utilisation, you'll probably notice, if
you're just using it for "officey stuff" like email, browsing and
word/excel, you'll likely not even notice.

Your Name wrote:

The actual amount of slow down depends on a lot of factors: your
computer, the OS, the apps you use, what you do (simple word processing
would be less affected than say complex 3D or video rednering), etc.

I wouldn't even say that e.g. rendering would notice, as it won't be
doing very much context switching between user and kernel space, just
hammering CPU/GPU in a tight loop all within user space.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 13:36:28 +1300, Your Name
wrote:

On 2018-01-15 23:40:58 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:20:32 +1300, Your Name
wrote:
On 2018-01-15 18:35:04 +0000, Doomsdrzej said:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 17:22:46 +0000, Paranoid Pete
wrote:
In article
Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu,4 Jan 2018 13:56:45 wrote:

has to be fixed in software at the OS level, or go buy a new
processor without the design blunder.

not a blunder it is deliberate

I agree. We've been talking about backdoors from Intel and others
for a long timer. Well, here it is. Since word about it has gotten
out we are seeing attempts to mitigate the damage, but I think this
is a backdoor, maybe not the only hardware backdoor, in Intel
machines.

So now we have to choose between performance and getting hacked by
script kiddies.

For the time being, I have faith that AMD's processors don't have such
backdoors. If that's the case, I will revert to the AMD loyalist I was
before I bought my Core i3 laptop in 2010.

AMD has admitted that some of their chips also suffer from at least one
of these recent bugs. It wouldn't be any surprise if AMD's chips also
suffer from their own bugs too, but simply hasn't been noticed ... yet.

ARM, Apple's A-series, and later PowerPC chips also have issues with thes bugs.

The real problem is perhaps that many devices will never have a fix
made available because the company making them considers the devices or
OS simply "too old" to bother with.

What I learned was that because my processor was released in 2013
(i7-4710HQ), the "fix" will slow down performance by double digits.
Whether that means 10% or 50% is beyond me for the time being.
Strangely, recent processors from Intel also suffer a slowdown but
much in the range of 2 to 5%. To say the least, I'm not very impressed
with Intel right now.

The actual amount of slow down depends on a lot of factors: your
computer, the OS, the apps you use, what you do (simple word processing
would be less affected than say complex 3D or video rednering), etc.
Apple's fixes have reported had pretty much no noticeable affect ... so
far.

Gaming seems not to be affected much for the time being which is
refreshing for me. That's what I was most concerned about. All of the
rest, I can live with a tiny slowdown.

In article , Doomsdrzej
wrote:

Gaming seems not to be affected much for the time being which is
refreshing for me. That's what I was most concerned about. All of the
rest, I can live with a tiny slowdown.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...wn-spectre-slo
wdowns-fix-processor-flaws-fortnite-epic-games
Online video game Fortnite is one of the worst hit, with the game¹s
creators attributing login issues and service instability to a 30
percentage point spike in processor use that occurred when the
company installed the patches.

https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/f...nts/132642-epi
c-services-stability-update

In article
Bill Gunshannon wrote:

On 01/06/2018 12:13 PM, DaveFroble wrote:
Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote:
DaveFroble wrote:
Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote:
Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
Den 2018-01-06 kl. 00:01, skrev Pabst Blue Ribbon:

[Why quote 100s of lines?]
My newsreader is not that great with editing.

I wonder if Intel will be sued because of that.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...cpu_flaw_sued/

"Here come the lawyers! Intel slapped with three Meltdown bug
lawsuits!"
Thank you. Just like I expected.
Well, the lawyers will try anything.Â* Doesn't mean they have a case.
Lots of examples.

Make liquor, somebody gets hurt ....

Make guns, somebody gets shot ....

Make cars, somebody gets hurt ....

Make cars, cars do not perform as advertised or not as safe as expected,
have to do a recall.



Unless you are Ford with the Pinto fuel tank problem.

The person who came up with the idea that it would be cheaper to pay off
the law suits than to do a recall and fix the problem is most likely
alive and well in too many companies.Â* As soon as you put money ahead of
people, there is a problem.Â* We hang murderers, why not those who are
worse?


Dave, you live in PA. PA does not execute anyone. They
punish them by making the taxpayers support them for the
rest of their lives to include things like TV, gym facilities,
college degrees, full medical coverage. And many more things
the average taxpayer can't afford.

Thank Democrats, because murderers have rights above and beyond
those of their victims.

On 01/20/2018 06:28 AM, Rick Rohme wrote:
In article
Bill Gunshannon wrote:

On 01/06/2018 12:13 PM, DaveFroble wrote:
Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote:
DaveFroble wrote:
Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote:
Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
Den 2018-01-06 kl. 00:01, skrev Pabst Blue Ribbon:

[Why quote 100s of lines?]
My newsreader is not that great with editing.

I wonder if Intel will be sued because of that.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...cpu_flaw_sued/

"Here come the lawyers! Intel slapped with three Meltdown bug
lawsuits!"
Thank you. Just like I expected.
Well, the lawyers will try anything.ÂÂ* Doesn't mean they have a case.
Lots of examples.

Make liquor, somebody gets hurt ....

Make guns, somebody gets shot ....

Make cars, somebody gets hurt ....

Make cars, cars do not perform as advertised or not as safe as expected,
have to do a recall.



Unless you are Ford with the Pinto fuel tank problem.

The person who came up with the idea that it would be cheaper to pay off
the law suits than to do a recall and fix the problem is most likely
alive and well in too many companies.ÂÂ* As soon as you put money ahead of
people, there is a problem.ÂÂ* We hang murderers, why not those who are
worse?


Dave, you live in PA. PA does not execute anyone. They
punish them by making the taxpayers support them for the
rest of their lives to include things like TV, gym facilities,
college degrees, full medical coverage. And many more things
the average taxpayer can't afford.

Thank Democrats, because murderers have rights above and beyond
those of their victims.


Preaching to the choir...

bill

In article
Bill Gunshannon wrote:

On 01/20/2018 06:28 AM, Rick Rohme wrote:
In article
Bill Gunshannon wrote:

On 01/06/2018 12:13 PM, DaveFroble wrote:
Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote:
DaveFroble wrote:
Pabst Blue Ribbon wrote:
Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
Den 2018-01-06 kl. 00:01, skrev Pabst Blue Ribbon:

[Why quote 100s of lines?]
My newsreader is not that great with editing.

I wonder if Intel will be sued because of that.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/0...cpu_flaw_sued/

"Here come the lawyers! Intel slapped with three Meltdown bug
lawsuits!"
Thank you. Just like I expected.
Well, the lawyers will try anything. Doesn't mean they have a case.
Lots of examples.

Make liquor, somebody gets hurt ....

Make guns, somebody gets shot ....

Make cars, somebody gets hurt ....

Make cars, cars do not perform as advertised or not as safe as expected,
have to do a recall.



Unless you are Ford with the Pinto fuel tank problem.

The person who came up with the idea that it would be cheaper to pay off
the law suits than to do a recall and fix the problem is most likely
alive and well in too many companies. As soon as you put money ahead of
people, there is a problem. We hang murderers, why not those who are
worse?


Dave, you live in PA. PA does not execute anyone. They
punish them by making the taxpayers support them for the
rest of their lives to include things like TV, gym facilities,
college degrees, full medical coverage. And many more things
the average taxpayer can't afford.

Thank Democrats, because murderers have rights above and beyond
those of their victims.


Preaching to the choir...

bill