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#1
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
Given that many modern laptops have an internal, non-removable battery that
cannot be exchanged when it stops holding its charge, what advice would people give for maximising the lifetime of a battery? Every laptop I've owned (98. XP, Vista, 7) has suffered from a battery that has a reduced life (time that laptop will run on battery having been charged to 100%) which soon degenerates into a battery which refuses to hold any charge at all, so the laptop can only be used on mains. In each case, the battery has been whatever the manufacturer (HP, Acer, Samsung) has supplied, although when a battery has died, I've sometimes replaced it with a cheap Chinese clone and not noticed that this dies any sooner than the one that was supplied with the laptop. I use my laptop mainly at a desk, where mains power is available, and I want to leave my laptop in a state where the battery is reasonably fully charged so I can always use it on battery at a moment's notice, without first having to charge it for an hour or so. I tend to run the laptop on mains when I'm using it (which charges the battery) but I unplug it from mains when I notice that the battery is full or once I've finished using it - so it does not spend many hours, days or weeks being charged after it has reached 100%. Every week or so I run the laptop on battery until the charge is down to about 20%, and then recharge it - so the battery does go through partial discharge/charge cycles and does not spend all its life at 100% charge. Is there anything I should be doing differently so the battery won't die after a couple of years? With an older laptop I could just replace the battery, but it's more difficult when the battery is non-removable. Should I run the laptop more often on battery (even when mains is available) and accept that sometimes I will find that the battery is only partly charged when I'd really want it full for maximum usage away from a mains supply? |
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#2
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
NY wrote:
Given that many modern laptops have an internal, non-removable battery that cannot be exchanged when it stops holding its charge, what advice would people give for maximising the lifetime of a battery? Every laptop I've owned (98. XP, Vista, 7) has suffered from a battery that has a reduced life (time that laptop will run on battery having been charged to 100%) which soon degenerates into a battery which refuses to hold any charge at all, so the laptop can only be used on mains. In each case, the battery has been whatever the manufacturer (HP, Acer, Samsung) has supplied, although when a battery has died, I've sometimes replaced it with a cheap Chinese clone and not noticed that this dies any sooner than the one that was supplied with the laptop. I use my laptop mainly at a desk, where mains power is available, and I want to leave my laptop in a state where the battery is reasonably fully charged so I can always use it on battery at a moment's notice, without first having to charge it for an hour or so. I tend to run the laptop on mains when I'm using it (which charges the battery) but I unplug it from mains when I notice that the battery is full or once I've finished using it - so it does not spend many hours, days or weeks being charged after it has reached 100%. Every week or so I run the laptop on battery until the charge is down to about 20%, and then recharge it - so the battery does go through partial discharge/charge cycles and does not spend all its life at 100% charge. Is there anything I should be doing differently so the battery won't die after a couple of years? With an older laptop I could just replace the battery, but it's more difficult when the battery is non-removable. Should I run the laptop more often on battery (even when mains is available) and accept that sometimes I will find that the battery is only partly charged when I'd really want it full for maximum usage away from a mains supply? You can get the necessary information from this site. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ion_batteries ******* Store the battery at 60-70% charge. Storing the battery at an even lower capacity would be better, but there is also a danger it could self-discharge so low, that the charger would never charge it again. If you left it at 70%, you could come back three months later and check how much is left. And restore it to the correct condition again. This process reduces the long term per-cell voltage to a less damaging level. NiCd had a "memory" effect. This is why we were discharging them and charging them up again, so there wouldn't be capacity loss from being left at some intermediate state. Whereas Lithium doesn't have "memory". You don't have to "exercise" the battery, by running it down into the drink and charging it up again. It would be just as happy going from 70% to 60% and back to 70%, if that's what the usage requirements dictated. You don't have to make an extra effort to run it down to 20% to combat a perceived "memory" effect. One thing that running the battery down to 0% does, is it gives the fuel gauge a chance to calibrate. If you own a UPS, you can run the laptop off the adapter via the UPS, and just leave the battery unplugged. Then you're not constantly playing with the battery like it was a yoyo :-) The UPS takes the place of the battery in the event the AC power goes off, and gives you time to shutdown. You can shut down and insert the battery and go mobile. Windows 10 has various options for session saving (hibernation would be just one example). Some laptops actually have a control to set the charging policy. Mine doesn't have that, and my laptop always tries to charge to 100%. But some laptops allow avoiding the "saturation charge" portion of the charge curve, and they stop at around 80% charge. That was a charging option specifically invented to enhance battery lifetimes. The absolute worst thing you can do, is force it to stay at 100% all the time. For safety reasons, you can't charge it above 100%, but you also cannot discharge it below 0%. If you discharge it to 0%, then throw the battery in a closet for 3 months, the charge level could be so low at that point, that the charger refuses to charge it. Single cell packs (used in digital cameras), allow discharge all the way down to 0 volts. I actually had that happen on my digital camera - it apparently wasn't switched off after using USB transfer mode, and I found precisely 0 volts on it the next time I tried to use it. The charger was perfectly happy to recharge that single cell. Laptops on the other hand, use multiple cells. The "won't charge a too low battery" rule exists, to prevent a battery from plating out metallic Lithium, which is a fire hazard. The "explosion" risk would come from the vent not opening in time, if there is pressure buildup. The cells (and the pack) have various safety features to control the side effects. Paul |
#3
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
In article , NY
wrote: Given that many modern laptops have an internal, non-removable battery that cannot be exchanged when it stops holding its charge, what advice would people give for maximising the lifetime of a battery? the battery can be removed and replaced, it just requires a screwdriver and something that is not needed very often. Every laptop I've owned (98. XP, Vista, 7) has suffered from a battery that has a reduced life (time that laptop will run on battery having been charged to 100%) which soon degenerates into a battery which refuses to hold any charge at all, so the laptop can only be used on mains. battery technology has greatly improved since the win98/xp days. today's batteries are rated to last 5 years at 80% capacity, which is longer than the useful life of the laptop but still very usable. |
#4
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
In article , KenW
wrote: Today's laptops stop charging when the battery is at 100%. At least that is what the indicators show. all battery operated products stop charging when the battery is fully charged. otherwise, bad things happen, like fires and explosions, and customers don't like that very much. |
#5
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
NY wrote:
Given that many modern laptops have an internal, non-removable battery that cannot be exchanged when it stops holding its charge, what advice would people give for maximising the lifetime of a battery? Every laptop I've owned (98. XP, Vista, 7) has suffered from a battery that has a reduced life (time that laptop will run on battery having been charged to 100%) which soon degenerates into a battery which refuses to hold any charge at all, so the laptop can only be used on mains. In each case, the battery has been whatever the manufacturer (HP, Acer, Samsung) has supplied, although when a battery has died, I've sometimes replaced it with a cheap Chinese clone and not noticed that this dies any sooner than the one that was supplied with the laptop. I use my laptop mainly at a desk, where mains power is available, and I want to leave my laptop in a state where the battery is reasonably fully charged so I can always use it on battery at a moment's notice, without first having to charge it for an hour or so. I tend to run the laptop on mains when I'm using it (which charges the battery) but I unplug it from mains when I notice that the battery is full or once I've finished using it - so it does not spend many hours, days or weeks being charged after it has reached 100%. Every week or so I run the laptop on battery until the charge is down to about 20%, and then recharge it - so the battery does go through partial discharge/charge cycles and does not spend all its life at 100% charge. Is there anything I should be doing differently so the battery won't die after a couple of years? With an older laptop I could just replace the battery, but it's more difficult when the battery is non-removable. Should I run the laptop more often on battery (even when mains is available) and accept that sometimes I will find that the battery is only partly charged when I'd really want it full for maximum usage away from a mains supply? In addition to Paul's response - which covers most of the issues -, you might want to read the thread "charging to 80 or 90%" of March 16 in comp.mobile.android. That thread is about phones/tablets, but they use the same battery technology, so most is also applicable to laptops. The thread is only 122 articles, so an easy read! :-) FWIW, I will be follwing *this* thread, because I'm also a stationary-laptop user and 'hence' a battery-abuser. |
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 09:02:00 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , KenW wrote: Today's laptops stop charging when the battery is at 100%. At least that is what the indicators show. all battery operated products stop charging when the battery is fully charged. otherwise, bad things happen, like fires and explosions, and customers don't like that very much. That'd why some UK airlines do not allow laptops and some mobile telephones in cabin luggage. Steve -- http://www.npsnn.com |
#7
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
In article , Stephen
Wolstenholme wrote: Today's laptops stop charging when the battery is at 100%. At least that is what the indicators show. all battery operated products stop charging when the battery is fully charged. otherwise, bad things happen, like fires and explosions, and customers don't like that very much. That'd why some UK airlines do not allow laptops and some mobile telephones in cabin luggage. you mean in checked bags put into the cargo hold (and that ruling may change). batteries are allowed in the cabin, where any fire would immediately be noticed and extinguished via any of the several fire extinguishers on board by the flight crew trained in using them. |
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 07:30:21 -0400, Paul wrote:
Store the battery at 60-70% charge. Storing the battery at an even lower capacity would be better, but there is also a danger it could self-discharge so low, that the charger would never charge it again. If you left it at 70%, you could come back three months later and check how much is left. And restore it to the correct condition again. snip Agreed. Some laptops actually have a control to set the charging policy. Mine doesn't have that, and my laptop always tries to charge to 100%. But some laptops allow avoiding the "saturation charge" portion of the charge curve, and they stop at around 80% charge. That was a charging option specifically invented to enhance battery lifetimes. My Dell Inspiron has a "Dell Extended Battery Life" power profile that keeps the battery between 60-70% about 95% of the time. Every so often it allows the charge to dip to 50% or rise to 100%, but it mostly just goes back and forth between 60% and 70%. The laptop is over 5 years old and the original battery still gives me over 2 hours runtime, which is all I ever asked of it even when it was new. To the OP: What kind of laptop has a battery that is not easily replaceable? Tablets and phones, but now laptops, too? |
#9
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
I also put my battery in a ziplock bag and in the refrigerator. Luckily my
battery has an indicator that I can look at to see the charge level. I am not sure what discharge level you should let it reach but I do not let it go below 20%. This battery is 9 years old and still gives decent service. -- Bill Brought to you from Anchorage, Alaska Stefan Ram wrote: Frank Slootweg writes: In addition to Paul's response - which covers most of the issues -, you might want to read the thread "charging to 80 or 90%" of March 16 in comp.mobile.android. What I remember to have read: - At the very start of use, the battery should be charged up to 100 % once. (Also remember: discharged to nearly 0 % and then charged to 100 % once. But usually such discharges to nearly 0% should be avoided.) - Avoid severe discharges (to nearly 0%). - The lifetime will be best when the battery is charged to about 50 %. So to maximize lifetime in use, try to charge to 60 % and discharge to 40 % if you can get by using only a part of the capacity (or charge to 70 % and discharge to 30 % if you need more energy). Avoid extremes above 80 % and - most of all - of below 20 %. - I observed that a battery that was always charged to about 60 % seems to have lost nearly all of its capacity. Maybe from time to time (once a year?), there should be a major discharge and a major charge? (Just my guess) - If a battery is not needed at all, lifetime is maximized if it is put (with 50 % charge? - my guess) into an air-tight plastic bag and then into the refrigerator (but not below 0 degrees of Celsius?). These are just vague memories; I am not an expert. |
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
On 6/24/2018 3:17 AM, NY wrote:
Is there anything I should be doing differently so the battery won't die after a couple of years? My phone came with a turbo charger that will fully charge my depleted battery in an hour or so. I've often wondered the same thing. Should I use a standard charger to save on battery life because it seemed to me the fast charge would add extra stress to the battery? I settled on using the standard charger overnight and the turbo charger when I needed the quick charge. Then I read that overnight charging is bad. So I tried wireless charging but then the phone became very hot so that seemed bad also. Can't win. Bottom line: I said screw it and just used whatever was convenient. The battery is now 2 years old and I notice no difference from when it was new... :-/ |
#11
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
On 6/24/2018 6:01 AM, nospam wrote:
the battery can be removed and replaced, it just requires a screwdriver and something that is not needed very often. If by "something that is not needed very often" you mean special tools they may come with the replacement battery as they did in my recent battery replacement: The wife's iPhone battery swelled up so much it popped the case open by a quarter inch. I left it stored on a metal cookie sheet (as I was worried about fire) until I got and installed a new battery. The old battery looked and felt like a mylar balloon when removed. The new battery was $30 USD including the tools so it didn't set me back too much. |
#12
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
In article , ghyrpejsekieddrjiljhy
wrote: the battery can be removed and replaced, it just requires a screwdriver and something that is not needed very often. If by "something that is not needed very often" you mean special tools they may come with the replacement battery as they did in my recent battery replacement: sometimes the tools are included as part of a kit and sometimes they're not. The wife's iPhone battery swelled up so much it popped the case open by a quarter inch. I left it stored on a metal cookie sheet (as I was worried about fire) until I got and installed a new battery. The old battery looked and felt like a mylar balloon when removed. The new battery was $30 USD including the tools so it didn't set me back too much. that's a defective battery and apple will replace it for no charge, as it poses a danger to you and those around you. normal wear and tear, however, is not covered. |
#13
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 11:02:09 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote: On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 07:30:21 -0400, Paul wrote: Store the battery at 60-70% charge. Storing the battery at an even lower capacity would be better, but there is also a danger it could self-discharge so low, that the charger would never charge it again. If you left it at 70%, you could come back three months later and check how much is left. And restore it to the correct condition again. snip Agreed. Some laptops actually have a control to set the charging policy. Mine doesn't have that, and my laptop always tries to charge to 100%. But some laptops allow avoiding the "saturation charge" portion of the charge curve, and they stop at around 80% charge. That was a charging option specifically invented to enhance battery lifetimes. My Dell Inspiron has a "Dell Extended Battery Life" power profile that keeps the battery between 60-70% about 95% of the time. Every so often it allows the charge to dip to 50% or rise to 100%, but it mostly just goes back and forth between 60% and 70%. The laptop is over 5 years old and the original battery still gives me over 2 hours runtime, which is all I ever asked of it even when it was new. To the OP: What kind of laptop has a battery that is not easily replaceable? Tablets and phones, but now laptops, too? HP Envy for 1. Anything with an Apple logo...... The assumption made is that you will replace it by the time the battery is toast, or you dont mind paying the manufacturer to swap it. -- Stephen |
#14
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
In article , Stephen
wrote: To the OP: What kind of laptop has a battery that is not easily replaceable? Tablets and phones, but now laptops, too? HP Envy for 1. Anything with an Apple logo...... microsoft surface laptop The assumption made is that you will replace it by the time the battery is toast, yep. the battery will normally outlast the useful life of the product. or you dont mind paying the manufacturer to swap it. or you remove a few screws rather than slide a latch. unless it's a microsoft surface laptop: https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/17/1...face-teardown- ifixit-impossible-repair ...The team also reports that they canıt disconnect the battery until several other components are removed, and once they get to it, they found that itıs glued directly to the case. |
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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery
On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 19:27:34 +0100, Stephen
wrote: On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 11:02:09 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: To the OP: What kind of laptop has a battery that is not easily replaceable? Tablets and phones, but now laptops, too? HP Envy for 1. HP offers battery replacement info for at least one of their Envy models he https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04351268 It looks inconvenient, but certainly not impossible. Anything with an Apple logo...... I don't own anything with an Apple logo, so thanks for that. |
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