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#1
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Major upgrade
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
New build with 8700 Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow in about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday. Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up drive, Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the same drive. In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact. Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with the new hardware? Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc Or would that help? I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation, Does anyone have the Phone number? Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order. Thanks to all. Rene It might depend on the genealogy of the license. Strictly speaking, an OEM license isn't transferable. Although I have managed to transfer my Core2 processor from a VIA motherboard to an Intel motherboard, and still activate WinXP OEM. Apparently, part of the ingredient there, is how long it's been since an install attempt was made (a year or two). OSes with a "high frequency of install" is a sign of license abuse... On Windows 10, you can set up an MSA (Microsoft Account, also used for the App Store). And each machine and license you have, are tracked not only by the motherboard serial number, but by your MSA. If you contact support, they can transfer a license from one motherboard to another. But whether they will, since there have been no first-person accounts of doing this, we don't know whether it's possible or whether it works. I would expect any Support person worth their salt, to just whip off a "just buy another license, bud" answer, rather than do the extra work of transferring it for you. But it remains to be seen how helpful they can be, given an opportunity. I don't expect Microsoft to be "Adobe helpful", as at my house, Adobe holds the record for helpfulness. ******* Any time you attempt this sort of thing. 1) Make a clone of the drive. An exact copy (forensic quality). This is an image, with none of the identifiers modified. 2) Transfer the original drive to the new build. 3) Watch for train wreck. 4) If train wreck happens, and Sad Panda is the result, then clone the exact exact image, back to the original drive. Macrium changes a few things, when it makes casual copies. Which is only potentially a problem, if you want to preserve as many identifiers as possible when jumping from machine to machine. I would think though, that as long as the image had been booted once on the old machine, before again moving it to the second machine, those modified identifiers should be noted by the boot run. So I guess what I'm suggesting is, to not pull all the junk out of the old case, and install the new. What I do, is build up on the kitchen table, provide some support so the video card doesn't fall over, boot up the system, and work on it that way. I've had to re-clone drives before, when a transplant didn't work, and so I like to keep the old machine ready and waiting, for any drive repair work before the next try. Once it's gone to a Not Genuine state and is "cranky" or "freezes", that's when you'll know it needs re-cloning. Now, when I've accidentally booted the wrong Win10 drive on a foreign PC here, Windows 10 doesn't throw a hissy fit like the old OSes did. So the reception you get on the new machine, shouldn't be that frosty. But you will get at least one notification box, indicating you've been naughty. So you'll have that to look at. While there are "slmgr" and "slui" commands for changing license keys, there's no need for that quite yet. Paul |
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#2
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Major upgrade
On 04/25/2019 1:43 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote: New build with 8700 Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow in about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday. Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up drive, Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the same drive. In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact. Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with the new hardware? Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc Or would that help? I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation, Does anyone have the Phone number? Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order. Thanks to all. Rene It might depend on the genealogy of the license. It is a genuine Microsoft license received with a retail copy of Windows 8, It is NOT an OEM. Strictly speaking, an OEM license isn't transferable. Although I have managed to transfer my Core2 processor from a VIA motherboard to an Intel motherboard, and still activate WinXP OEM. Apparently, part of the ingredient there, is how long it's been since an install attempt was made (a year or two). OSes with a "high frequency of install" is a sign of license abuse... On Windows 10, you can set up an MSA (Microsoft Account, also used for the App Store). And each machine and license you have, are tracked not only by the motherboard serial number, but by your MSA. If you contact support, they can transfer a license from one motherboard to another. But whether they will, since there have been no first-person accounts of doing this, we don't know whether it's possible or whether it works. YesI do have a microsot account And it is linked to my License. I would expect any Support person worth their salt, to just whip off a "just buy another license, bud" answer, rather than do the extra work of transferring it for you. But it remains to be seen how helpful they can be, given an opportunity. I don't expect Microsoft to be "Adobe helpful", as at my house, Adobe holds the record for helpfulness. ******* Any time you attempt this sort of thing. 1) Make a clone of the drive. An exact copy (forensic quality). Â*Â* This is an image, with none of the identifiers modified. Yes, I just made a clone copy in Macrium 0n a same size SSD and tested it by running it, so it is good. 2) Transfer the original drive to the new build. 3) Watch for train wreck. 4) If train wreck happens, and Sad Panda is the Â*Â* result, then clone the exact exact image, back Â*Â* to the original drive. Macrium changes a few things, when it makes casual copies. Which is only potentially a problem, if you want to preserve as many identifiers as possible when jumping from machine to machine. I would think though, that as long as the image had been booted once on the old machine, before again moving it to the second machine, those modified identifiers should be noted by the boot run. So I guess what I'm suggesting is, to not pull all the junk out of the old case, and install the new. What I do, is build up on the kitchen table, provide some support so the video card doesn't fall over, boot up the system, and work on it that way. I've had to re-clone drives before, when a transplant didn't work, and so I like to keep the old machine ready and waiting, for any drive repair work before the next try. Once it's gone to a Not Genuine state and is "cranky" or "freezes", that's when you'll know it needs re-cloning. Yep, kitchen table, MB on its anti-static bag, Won't need a prop for the GPU as I plan to try it on the UIHD 630. See if it boots to no drive, and if it passes post OK then plug in the SSD and see if it runs the OS, Then start doing the actual change over. Now, when I've accidentally booted the wrong Win10 drive on a foreign PC here, Windows 10 doesn't throw a hissy fit like the old OSes did. So the reception you get on the new machine, shouldn't be that frosty. But you will get at least one notification box, indicating you've been naughty. So you'll have that to look at. While there are "slmgr" and "slui" commands for changing license keys, there's no need for that quite yet. Â*Â* Paul I'll be back. :-) Rene |
#3
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Major upgrade
On 04/25/2019 4:24 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/25/2019 1:43 PM, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: New build with 8700 Received the Cooler and memory this morning, The CPU and MB to follow in about a week, They were sold out, They got in another bunch yesterday. Looking forward to see what pitfalls await me, I copied all my Favorites, bookmarks and important emails to my external back up drive, Just in case, also did a fresh Macrium backup of C\: to the same drive. In the past I have always did a new fresh install of Windows on a new build or major upgrade, This time I want to keep Windows and apps intact. Will this work or will windows throw a tantrum and refuse to work with the new hardware? Should I uninstall all the old drivers and hardware before the final shutdown of the old system, such as Video, Network, Audio, Keyboard etc Or would that help? I presume I will have to Get in touch with Microsoft for reactivation, Does anyone have the Phone number? Trying to make this fairly painless so a little research is in order. Thanks to all. Rene It might depend on the genealogy of the license. It is a genuine Microsoft license received with a retail copy of Windows 8, It is NOT an OEM. Strictly speaking, an OEM license isn't transferable. Although I have managed to transfer my Core2 processor from a VIA motherboard to an Intel motherboard, and still activate WinXP OEM. Apparently, part of the ingredient there, is how long it's been since an install attempt was made (a year or two). OSes with a "high frequency of install" is a sign of license abuse... On Windows 10, you can set up an MSA (Microsoft Account, also used for the App Store). And each machine and license you have, are tracked not only by the motherboard serial number, but by your MSA. If you contact support, they can transfer a license from one motherboard to another. But whether they will, since there have been no first-person accounts of doing this, we don't know whether it's possible or whether it works. YesI do have a microsot accountÂ* And it is linked to my License. I would expect any Support person worth their salt, to just whip off a "just buy another license, bud" answer, rather than do the extra work of transferring it for you. But it remains to be seen how helpful they can be, given an opportunity. I don't expect Microsoft to be "Adobe helpful", as at my house, Adobe holds the record for helpfulness. ******* Any time you attempt this sort of thing. 1) Make a clone of the drive. An exact copy (forensic quality). Â*Â*Â* This is an image, with none of the identifiers modified. Yes, I just made a clone copy in MacriumÂ* 0n a same size SSD and tested it by running it, so it is good. 2) Transfer the original drive to the new build. 3) Watch for train wreck. 4) If train wreck happens, and Sad Panda is the Â*Â*Â* result, then clone the exact exact image, back Â*Â*Â* to the original drive. Macrium changes a few things, when it makes casual copies. Which is only potentially a problem, if you want to preserve as many identifiers as possible when jumping from machine to machine. I would think though, that as long as the image had been booted once on the old machine, before again moving it to the second machine, those modified identifiers should be noted by the boot run. So I guess what I'm suggesting is, to not pull all the junk out of the old case, and install the new. What I do, is build up on the kitchen table, provide some support so the video card doesn't fall over, boot up the system, and work on it that way. I've had to re-clone drives before, when a transplant didn't work, and so I like to keep the old machine ready and waiting, for any drive repair work before the next try. Once it's gone to a Not Genuine state and is "cranky" or "freezes", that's when you'll know it needs re-cloning. Yep, kitchen table, MB on its anti-static bag, Won't need a prop for the GPU as I plan to try it on the UIHD 630. See if it boots to no drive, and if it passes post OK then plug in the SSD and see if it runs the OS, Then start doing the actual change over. Now, when I've accidentally booted the wrong Win10 drive on a foreign PC here, Windows 10 doesn't throw a hissy fit like the old OSes did. So the reception you get on the new machine, shouldn't be that frosty. But you will get at least one notification box, indicating you've been naughty. So you'll have that to look at. While there are "slmgr" and "slui" commands for changing license keys, there's no need for that quite yet. Â*Â*Â* Paul I'll be back.Â* :-) Rene Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. Rene |
#4
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Major upgrade
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2 NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280 is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an informed decision and you'll be fine. One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA. |
#5
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Major upgrade
On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2 NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280 is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an informed decision and you'll be fine. One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA. Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all lengths 40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws, Sata 1 will be disabled when adding the NVMe drive. Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price ones should be OK. Thanks, Rene |
#6
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Major upgrade
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2 NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280 is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an informed decision and you'll be fine. One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA. Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all lengths 40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws, Sata 1 will be disabled when adding the NVMe drive. Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price ones should be OK. Thanks, Rene HP EX 950 https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...-2tb,5306.html "that boasts up to 3.5/2.9GB/s of read/write" Bull**** (violates a law of physics) DRAM 512MB DDR3 etc. (various sizes of DRAM cache) Micron 64L TLC https://www.anandtech.com/show/13759...ro-vs-hp-ex950 Silicon Motion SM2262EN Random Read 390k IOPS (SATA SSDs are in the 100K ballpark) Random Write 370k IOPS Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 800 or 1300MB/sec. The Sequential Performance page shows 2600 and 2700MB/sec (consistent with the hardware buffer size choices available in Intel desktop chipset, which is a bottleneck at ~60% of PCIe link bandwidth - there's a graph available which relates hardware buffer size to link efficiency, that predicts 3.5GB/sec cannot be achieved). ******* SRG SX8200 older SM2262 controller ??? Dunno Sounds suspiciously similar to the HP design above, with an ADATA branding on the above article example. Double check the branding. ******* WD black SN750 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13760...750-ssd-review "Secret squirrel brand controller" Size-dependent IOP, like all designs. Random Read 220k IOPS 420k IOPS 515k IOPS 480k IOPS Random Write 180k IOPS 380k IOPS 560k IOPS 550k IOPS Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1500MB/sec for 1TB model. The Sequential Performance page shows only 800MB/sec read. [The SM2262EN in the table, does much better on the same graph (2300MB/sec).] ******* Throw in one more. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761...lus-ssd-review Article reveals IOPS spec is a crock :-/ Desktop loads don't do QD128, except under synthetic conditions. Hard to see how we can trust this spec at all. It's like your 2W audio amp having a "300W PMP power rating", where PMP stood for "Peak Music Power". Which translated to English meant "We Pulled This Number Out Of Our Ass". Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1700MB/sec for 1TB model (orange). The Sequential Performance page shows 2300MB/sec read at 1TB capacity. (As usual, "no, it doesn't read at 3500MB/sec".) You would compare the HP EX950 to the Samsung 970 EVO PLus and see if the price of the Samsung is work an extra 200MB/sec write. Since the HP performance is size-dependent, you have to compare "like to like". Then see what price the name brings. You consider the power rating, if there is any danger of the product "throttling" due to overheat. This has been a bit of a problem in the past with NVMe. Maybe the bottom gets a bit warm on them. You can't expect to be pushing 2GB/sec toggle rate on logic gates, doing ECC at speed, without something getting warm :-) The record for warmth goes to some of the PCIe card form factor products, like an Optane card. Which is probably over 15W or so. Whereas a tiddly SATA SSD can be 5V @ 300mA when writing. Paul |
#7
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Major upgrade
On 04/27/2019 5:47 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2 NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280 is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an informed decision and you'll be fine. One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA. Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all lengths 40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws, Sata 1 will be disabled when adding the NVMe drive. Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price ones should be OK. Thanks, Rene HP EX 950 https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...-2tb,5306.html Â*Â* "that boasts up to 3.5/2.9GB/s of read/write"Â* Bull**** (violates a law Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* of physics) Â*Â* DRAMÂ*Â*Â* 512MB DDR3 etc.Â* (various sizes of DRAM cache) Â*Â* Micron 64L TLC https://www.anandtech.com/show/13759...ro-vs-hp-ex950 Â*Â* Silicon Motion SM2262EN Â*Â* Random ReadÂ*Â* 390k IOPSÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (SATA SSDs are in the 100K ballpark) Â*Â* Random WriteÂ* 370k IOPS Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 800 or 1300MB/sec. Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows 2600 and 2700MB/sec Â*Â* (consistent with the hardware buffer size choices available Â*Â*Â* in Intel desktop chipset, which is a bottleneck at ~60% of Â*Â*Â* PCIe link bandwidth - there's a graph available which relates Â*Â*Â* hardware buffer size to link efficiency, that predicts 3.5GB/sec Â*Â*Â* cannot be achieved). ******* SRG SX8200 Â*Â* older SM2262 controller ??? Dunn Â*Â* Sounds suspiciously similar to the HP design above, with an ADATA Â*Â* branding on the above article example. Double check the branding. ******* WD black SN750 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13760...750-ssd-review Â*Â* "Secret squirrel brand controller" Â*Â* Size-dependent IOP, like all designs. Â*Â* Random ReadÂ*Â* 220k IOPSÂ* 420k IOPSÂ* 515k IOPSÂ* 480k IOPS Â*Â* Random WriteÂ* 180k IOPSÂ* 380k IOPSÂ* 560k IOPSÂ* 550k IOPS Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1500MB/sec for 1TB model. Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows only 800MB/sec read. Â*Â* [The SM2262EN in the table, does much better on the same graph (2300MB/sec).] ******* Throw in one more. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761...lus-ssd-review Â*Â* Article reveals IOPS spec is a crock :-/ Â*Â* Desktop loads don't do QD128, except under synthetic conditions. Â*Â* Hard to see how we can trust this spec at all. Â*Â* It's like your 2W audio amp having a "300W PMP power rating", Â*Â* where PMP stood for "Peak Music Power". Which translated to Â*Â* English meant "We Pulled This Number Out Of Our Ass". Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1700MB/sec for 1TB model (orange). Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows 2300MB/sec read at 1TB capacity. Â*Â* (As usual, "no, it doesn't read at 3500MB/sec".) You would compare the HP EX950 to the Samsung 970 EVO PLus and see if the price of the Samsung is work an extra 200MB/sec write. Since the HP performance is size-dependent, you have to compare "like to like". Then see what price the name brings. You consider the power rating, if there is any danger of the product "throttling" due to overheat. This has been a bit of a problem in the past with NVMe. Maybe the bottom gets a bit warm on them. You can't expect to be pushing 2GB/sec toggle rate on logic gates, doing ECC at speed, without something getting warm :-) The record for warmth goes to some of the PCIe card form factor products, like an Optane card. Which is probably over 15W or so. Whereas a tiddly SATA SSD can be 5V @ 300mA when writing. Â*Â* Paul The new SRG SX8200 PRO is 512 instead of 480 and sports the new SM2262en controller, Yes both that one and the HP are very nearly identical. I have read so many long reviews today my Eyeballs are still spinning. :-) It was a real learning experience believe me but worth it, Trusting my judgement and trying to remember all the facts with lots of notes. I chose Door 2, The Adata SRG SX8200 512 GB unit and ordered it from Amazon at a price of $129 cdn. free shipping 2 day delivery. When I get all this stuff bolted together I will certainly do a lot of bench-marking and post results and then the truth will shine forth. I am really looking forward to this as I haven't done a new build in 9 years Thanks for your help and research Rene |
#8
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Major upgrade
On 04/27/2019 8:56 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/27/2019 5:47 PM, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives and now find the prices quite attractive. I am looking at 3 brands for about the same price range for a 512 GB unit as follows. HP EX 950 SRG SX8200 WD black SN750 Now I have to admit I have never looked at NVME drives much before so I am kinda behind the curve on this, I have looked at piles of reviews and these 3 all get excellent marks, so now I am torn between them and can't decide which one to buy. So if anyone out there has any preferences or warnings I would appreciate their input, Thanks in advance. I'm no help on the choices above because each of my m.2 drives is Samsung. (I've had zero issues and personally won't be looking at other brands.) You're starting out well, though, because you're specifying m.2 NVMe and not m.2 SATA. m.2 is only the form factor, where the numbers that immediately follow refer to the drive's size in mm. I.e., m.2 2280 is 22mm wide and 80mm long. Whatever you decide, be sure your mobo physically supports it. You'll need the standard m.2 socket, plus a hold down screw at the desired distance from the socket. Also take a look at the mobo manual because, typically, adding an m.2 drive will take away some other capability, such as disabling one or two SATA ports or stealing a couple of PCIe lanes from one of your PCIe slots. Make an informed decision and you'll be fine. One final note: the boot drive in my latest build is an m.2 NVMe, which specs out at some crazy data transfer speed, but other than super fast boot times you'll very quickly become accustomed to it such that it no longer seems 'fast'. It just seems normal, as if things have always been that way. Even so, I wouldn't go back to vanilla SATA. Yes the Mobo supports X4 and will come with 2 M.2 slots for all lengths 40, 60, 80 and 110 mm and 2 mounting standoffs and screws, Sata 1 will be disabled when adding the NVMe drive. Yes Samsung is pretty well tops but for my casual use the lower price ones should be OK. Thanks, Rene HP EX 950 https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...-2tb,5306.html Â*Â*Â* "that boasts up to 3.5/2.9GB/s of read/write"Â* Bull**** (violates a law Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* of physics) Â*Â*Â* DRAMÂ*Â*Â* 512MB DDR3 etc.Â* (various sizes of DRAM cache) Â*Â*Â* Micron 64L TLC https://www.anandtech.com/show/13759...ro-vs-hp-ex950 Â*Â*Â* Silicon Motion SM2262EN Â*Â*Â* Random ReadÂ*Â* 390k IOPSÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* (SATA SSDs are in the 100K ballpark) Â*Â*Â* Random WriteÂ* 370k IOPS Â*Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 800 or 1300MB/sec. Â*Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows 2600 and 2700MB/sec Â*Â*Â* (consistent with the hardware buffer size choices available Â*Â*Â*Â* in Intel desktop chipset, which is a bottleneck at ~60% of Â*Â*Â*Â* PCIe link bandwidth - there's a graph available which relates Â*Â*Â*Â* hardware buffer size to link efficiency, that predicts 3.5GB/sec Â*Â*Â*Â* cannot be achieved). ******* SRG SX8200 Â*Â*Â* older SM2262 controller ??? Dunn Â*Â*Â* Sounds suspiciously similar to the HP design above, with an ADATA Â*Â*Â* branding on the above article example. Double check the branding. ******* WD black SN750 https://www.anandtech.com/show/13760...750-ssd-review Â*Â*Â* "Secret squirrel brand controller" Â*Â*Â* Size-dependent IOP, like all designs. Â*Â*Â* Random ReadÂ*Â* 220k IOPSÂ* 420k IOPSÂ* 515k IOPSÂ* 480k IOPS Â*Â*Â* Random WriteÂ* 180k IOPSÂ* 380k IOPSÂ* 560k IOPSÂ* 550k IOPS Â*Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1500MB/sec for 1TB model. Â*Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows only 800MB/sec read. Â*Â*Â* [The SM2262EN in the table, does much better on the same graph (2300MB/sec).] ******* Throw in one more. https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761...lus-ssd-review Â*Â*Â* Article reveals IOPS spec is a crock :-/ Â*Â*Â* Desktop loads don't do QD128, except under synthetic conditions. Â*Â*Â* Hard to see how we can trust this spec at all. Â*Â*Â* It's like your 2W audio amp having a "300W PMP power rating", Â*Â*Â* where PMP stood for "Peak Music Power". Which translated to Â*Â*Â* English meant "We Pulled This Number Out Of Our Ass". Â*Â*Â* Page 2 shows the "real sustained write" is 1700MB/sec for 1TB model (orange). Â*Â*Â* The Sequential Performance page shows 2300MB/sec read at 1TB capacity. Â*Â*Â* (As usual, "no, it doesn't read at 3500MB/sec".) You would compare the HP EX950 to the Samsung 970 EVO PLus and see if the price of the Samsung is work an extra 200MB/sec write. Since the HP performance is size-dependent, you have to compare "like to like". Then see what price the name brings. You consider the power rating, if there is any danger of the product "throttling" due to overheat. This has been a bit of a problem in the past with NVMe. Maybe the bottom gets a bit warm on them. You can't expect to be pushing 2GB/sec toggle rate on logic gates, doing ECC at speed, without something getting warm :-) The record for warmth goes to some of the PCIe card form factor products, like an Optane card. Which is probably over 15W or so. Whereas a tiddly SATA SSD can be 5V @ 300mA when writing. Â*Â*Â* Paul The new SRG SX8200 PRO is 512 instead of 480 and sports the new SM2262en controller, Yes both that one and the HP are very nearly identical. I have read so many long reviews today my Eyeballs are still spinning.Â* :-) Â*It was a real learning experience believe me but worth it, Trusting my judgement and trying to remember all the facts with lots of notes. Â*I choseÂ* Door 2, The Adata SRG SX8200 512 GB unit and ordered it from Amazon at a price of $129 cdn. free shipping 2 day delivery. When I get all this stuff bolted together I will certainly do a lot of bench-marking and post results and then the truth will shine forth. Â*I am really looking forward to this as I haven't done a new build in 9 years Â*Thanks for your help and research Rene Well I put it all together today as the last part came in yesterday afternoon. Two problems slowed me down. 1: the IO shield would not install, I have to work it over carefully with pliers before it would snap in. On 1rst boot it brought up the bios and would go no further, Had to do a lot of manual perusal before I figured what to do, which was Enable CSM whatever that does. After that it booted right into my old Windows without any problems. I then loaded the driver disk and everything works A1. Tomorrow I will have to reactivate it with Microsoft, And clone Windows onto the new NVMe I did two quick benchmarks as follows CrystalMark. Read 3,470 Write 2,386 ATTO Read 3,281 Write 2,399 So this pleases me beyond my expectations, Hadn't hoped for that much improvement. Rene |
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Major upgrade
On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 18:42:34 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote: On 04/27/2019 8:56 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/27/2019 5:47 PM, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/27/2019 11:00 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 27 Apr 2019 09:58:09 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Further to the above upgrade I have been looking at M.2 NVME drives [Deleted Text] On 1rst boot it brought up the bios and would go no further, Had to do a lot of manual perusal before I figured what to do, which was Enable CSM whatever that does. CSM is Compatibility Support Module. It's for newer motherboards that boot using UEFI to provide a BIOS style boot environment for older operating systems like Windows 7 or older. -- Roy Smith Windows 10 Forté Agent 8.0 |
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