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  #1  
Old October 28th 18, 08:42 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Undersized hippopotamus
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Posts: 5
Default "you appear to be offline"

What is the purpose of this message from the system tray?

I've seen it appear while in the middle of an 8Mb/s transfer (so clearly I'm not offline), and I've seen it not appear when my router needs rebooting and nothing can connect to the internet at all.

It seems to have no grasp of reality whatsoever.
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  #2  
Old October 28th 18, 11:06 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default "you appear to be offline"

Undersized hippopotamus wrote:
What is the purpose of this message from the system tray?

I've seen it appear while in the middle of an 8Mb/s transfer (so clearly
I'm not offline), and I've seen it not appear when my router needs
rebooting and nothing can connect to the internet at all.

It seems to have no grasp of reality whatsoever.


Network connection status has an "active" probing method
and a "passive" probing method. The active probing method talks
to a microsoft server, does a basic DNS lookup, then issues
an http:// request and receives a very short text file with
a couple words in it as a response. The node consulted, probably
isn't the one mentioned in the article. (Win10 might use a
different node.)

The passive probing method monitors normal traffic, for a normal
response. This article doesn't really solve your problem.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...n-status-icon/

This one shows some registry entries.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...rverpowershell

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet
"PassivePollPeriod" dword 00000005

The other way to clamp down on it, is the Notification control. There
is an entry called "Network", and you could switch off Notification
there if you want, as a last ditch effort at control. You could
leave the icon, as the icon could switch states if you were
really offline, and it wasn't a burp or hiccup.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...getfile/187817

*******

There's a little bit of info on passive polling here.

https://support.umbrella.com/hc/en-u...llow-Triangle-

"Appendix A: Passive Polling

Windows also uses a technique called 'Passive Polling' to monitor
for traffic received from the internet. If the "No Internet Access"
warning is displayed incorrectly it is likely your environment
is affected by an issue with Passive Polling.

Passive Polling works by analyzing the TTL (Time To Live)
in the IP header of TCP/UDP packets. The TTL is analyzed to
determine how many "hops" the packet has taken to reach the computer.

When a received packet has crossed more than the default of 8 hops
the system is deemed to have Internet Connectivity.

In some circumstances the Passive Polling technique may be inconsistent,
for example:

Running Windows in a desktop virtual machine such as Parallels Desktop
or VMware Fusion/Workstation.

When other networking software such as firewalls, proxy servers,
or certain VPN clients reset the TTL.

In an environment where there is a low number of packets received
from the internet. For example, when Internet Access is strictly
locked down.

When multiple network interfaces are connected, passive polling may fail
on one or more of these.
"

Further down, we can see how these might help:

Reduce the Passive Hop count threshold to 1 (this is the minimum):

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet\
"MinimumInternetHopCount" DWORD 1

That would take the place of the default hop count of 8 for detecting
Internet-bound packets. It would mean that virtually any traffic
on the affected port, would "satisfy" the passive probing technique.
However, a total lack of traffic on the port in question, would
still result in the passive method detecting a failure. It doesn't
really handle "zero" traffic all that well.

Changing the passive polling period isn't really a solution,
unless some value is "infinity" :-) They bumped it up by a factor
of 6 in the example.

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet
"PassivePollPeriod" dword 30

Whereas that notification control dialog, we could leave the icon
alone, and continue to have a networking icon in the tray area,
and just switch off Notifications. The icon status should differentiate
between solid failures, versus the (wrong) transient notifications
you get via the notification mechanism.

Take careful notes, for when Microsoft "fixes" this again.
In their own special "rinse and repeat" way. You might have
to undo your changes later.

Paul (who is still waiting for MSFT to fix his broken Win10 webcam,
which worked just fine thanks, in 10240)
  #3  
Old October 29th 18, 12:33 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Undersized hippopotamus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default "you appear to be offline"

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 22:06:47 -0000, Paul wrote:

Undersized hippopotamus wrote:
What is the purpose of this message from the system tray?

I've seen it appear while in the middle of an 8Mb/s transfer (so clearly
I'm not offline), and I've seen it not appear when my router needs
rebooting and nothing can connect to the internet at all.

It seems to have no grasp of reality whatsoever.


Network connection status has an "active" probing method
and a "passive" probing method. The active probing method talks
to a microsoft server, does a basic DNS lookup, then issues
an http:// request and receives a very short text file with
a couple words in it as a response. The node consulted, probably
isn't the one mentioned in the article. (Win10 might use a
different node.)

The passive probing method monitors normal traffic, for a normal
response. This article doesn't really solve your problem.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...n-status-icon/

This one shows some registry entries.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...rverpowershell

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet
"PassivePollPeriod" dword 00000005

The other way to clamp down on it, is the Notification control. There
is an entry called "Network", and you could switch off Notification
there if you want, as a last ditch effort at control. You could
leave the icon, as the icon could switch states if you were
really offline, and it wasn't a burp or hiccup.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...getfile/187817

*******

There's a little bit of info on passive polling here.

https://support.umbrella.com/hc/en-u...llow-Triangle-

"Appendix A: Passive Polling

Windows also uses a technique called 'Passive Polling' to monitor
for traffic received from the internet. If the "No Internet Access"
warning is displayed incorrectly it is likely your environment
is affected by an issue with Passive Polling.

Passive Polling works by analyzing the TTL (Time To Live)
in the IP header of TCP/UDP packets. The TTL is analyzed to
determine how many "hops" the packet has taken to reach the computer.

When a received packet has crossed more than the default of 8 hops
the system is deemed to have Internet Connectivity.

In some circumstances the Passive Polling technique may be inconsistent,
for example:

Running Windows in a desktop virtual machine such as Parallels Desktop
or VMware Fusion/Workstation.

When other networking software such as firewalls, proxy servers,
or certain VPN clients reset the TTL.

In an environment where there is a low number of packets received
from the internet. For example, when Internet Access is strictly
locked down.

When multiple network interfaces are connected, passive polling may fail
on one or more of these.
"

Further down, we can see how these might help:

Reduce the Passive Hop count threshold to 1 (this is the minimum):

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet\
"MinimumInternetHopCount" DWORD 1

That would take the place of the default hop count of 8 for detecting
Internet-bound packets. It would mean that virtually any traffic
on the affected port, would "satisfy" the passive probing technique.
However, a total lack of traffic on the port in question, would
still result in the passive method detecting a failure. It doesn't
really handle "zero" traffic all that well.

Changing the passive polling period isn't really a solution,
unless some value is "infinity" :-) They bumped it up by a factor
of 6 in the example.

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet
"PassivePollPeriod" dword 30

Whereas that notification control dialog, we could leave the icon
alone, and continue to have a networking icon in the tray area,
and just switch off Notifications. The icon status should differentiate
between solid failures, versus the (wrong) transient notifications
you get via the notification mechanism.

Take careful notes, for when Microsoft "fixes" this again.
In their own special "rinse and repeat" way. You might have
to undo your changes later.

Paul (who is still waiting for MSFT to fix his broken Win10 webcam,
which worked just fine thanks, in 10240)


I've only had this happen on a slow machine. Perhaps something is taking longer than Windows expects?

But I don't understand why it didn't warn me when there was no connectivity at all. My router had crashed, there was no way to connect to the internet whatsoever.
  #4  
Old October 29th 18, 01:47 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default "you appear to be offline"

Undersized hippopotamus wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 22:06:47 -0000, Paul wrote:

Undersized hippopotamus wrote:
What is the purpose of this message from the system tray?

I've seen it appear while in the middle of an 8Mb/s transfer (so clearly
I'm not offline), and I've seen it not appear when my router needs
rebooting and nothing can connect to the internet at all.

It seems to have no grasp of reality whatsoever.


Network connection status has an "active" probing method
and a "passive" probing method. The active probing method talks
to a microsoft server, does a basic DNS lookup, then issues
an http:// request and receives a very short text file with
a couple words in it as a response. The node consulted, probably
isn't the one mentioned in the article. (Win10 might use a
different node.)

The passive probing method monitors normal traffic, for a normal
response. This article doesn't really solve your problem.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...n-status-icon/


This one shows some registry entries.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...rverpowershell


HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet
"PassivePollPeriod" dword 00000005

The other way to clamp down on it, is the Notification control. There
is an entry called "Network", and you could switch off Notification
there if you want, as a last ditch effort at control. You could
leave the icon, as the icon could switch states if you were
really offline, and it wasn't a burp or hiccup.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...getfile/187817

*******

There's a little bit of info on passive polling here.

https://support.umbrella.com/hc/en-u...llow-Triangle-


"Appendix A: Passive Polling

Windows also uses a technique called 'Passive Polling' to monitor
for traffic received from the internet. If the "No Internet Access"
warning is displayed incorrectly it is likely your environment
is affected by an issue with Passive Polling.

Passive Polling works by analyzing the TTL (Time To Live)
in the IP header of TCP/UDP packets. The TTL is analyzed to
determine how many "hops" the packet has taken to reach the
computer.

When a received packet has crossed more than the default of 8 hops
the system is deemed to have Internet Connectivity.

In some circumstances the Passive Polling technique may be
inconsistent,
for example:

Running Windows in a desktop virtual machine such as Parallels
Desktop
or VMware Fusion/Workstation.

When other networking software such as firewalls, proxy servers,
or certain VPN clients reset the TTL.

In an environment where there is a low number of packets received
from the internet. For example, when Internet Access is strictly
locked down.

When multiple network interfaces are connected, passive
polling may fail
on one or more of these.
"

Further down, we can see how these might help:

Reduce the Passive Hop count threshold to 1 (this is the minimum):

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet\
"MinimumInternetHopCount" DWORD 1

That would take the place of the default hop count of 8 for detecting
Internet-bound packets. It would mean that virtually any traffic
on the affected port, would "satisfy" the passive probing technique.
However, a total lack of traffic on the port in question, would
still result in the passive method detecting a failure. It doesn't
really handle "zero" traffic all that well.

Changing the passive polling period isn't really a solution,
unless some value is "infinity" :-) They bumped it up by a factor
of 6 in the example.

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet
"PassivePollPeriod" dword 30

Whereas that notification control dialog, we could leave the icon
alone, and continue to have a networking icon in the tray area,
and just switch off Notifications. The icon status should differentiate
between solid failures, versus the (wrong) transient notifications
you get via the notification mechanism.

Take careful notes, for when Microsoft "fixes" this again.
In their own special "rinse and repeat" way. You might have
to undo your changes later.

Paul (who is still waiting for MSFT to fix his broken Win10 webcam,
which worked just fine thanks, in 10240)


I've only had this happen on a slow machine. Perhaps something is
taking longer than Windows expects?

But I don't understand why it didn't warn me when there was no
connectivity at all. My router had crashed, there was no way to connect
to the internet whatsoever.


Only passive networking was happening at the time. Perhaps the
background network activity (ARP or whatever) from your PC, was
sufficient to keep the passive monitoring happy or something.

With your router crashed, there might still have been packets
using the switch side of the router, and comms there are
"mostly mechanical", and code doesn't have to run on the router.

With the cable unplugged on the other hand, you could lose
"heartbeat", and the PHY could raise an exception. I don't
remember the details of how heartbeat works any more, but
something regularly buzzes between the computer and the
router to prove the wire is there.

Going from Ethernet Port to Wifi on a router, probably
requires that the router code run properly. Ethernet Port
to Ethernet Port on the four LAN connectors, is a "free lunch".
Going between dissimilar LAN items takes some processor.

Paul
  #5  
Old October 29th 18, 09:09 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Bad Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 793
Default "you appear to be offline"

On 10/28/18 12:42, Undersized hippopotamus wrote:
What is the purpose of this message from the system tray?

I've seen it appear while in the middle of an 8Mb/s transfer (so clearly
I'm not offline), and I've seen it not appear when my router needs
rebooting and nothing can connect to the internet at all.

It seems to have no grasp of reality whatsoever.


It's probably integrated with micro-****'s SLURPware, trying to track
you online...


--
(aka 'Bombastic Bob' in case you wondered)

'Feeling with my fingers, and thinking with my brain' - me

'your story is so touching, but it sounds just like a lie'
"Straighten up and fly right"
  #6  
Old November 4th 18, 08:11 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Steven Watkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default "you appear to be offline"

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 00:47:00 -0000, Paul wrote:

Undersized hippopotamus wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 22:06:47 -0000, Paul wrote:

Undersized hippopotamus wrote:
What is the purpose of this message from the system tray?

I've seen it appear while in the middle of an 8Mb/s transfer (so clearly
I'm not offline), and I've seen it not appear when my router needs
rebooting and nothing can connect to the internet at all.

It seems to have no grasp of reality whatsoever.

Network connection status has an "active" probing method
and a "passive" probing method. The active probing method talks
to a microsoft server, does a basic DNS lookup, then issues
an http:// request and receives a very short text file with
a couple words in it as a response. The node consulted, probably
isn't the one mentioned in the article. (Win10 might use a
different node.)

The passive probing method monitors normal traffic, for a normal
response. This article doesn't really solve your problem.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...n-status-icon/


This one shows some registry entries.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...rverpowershell


HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet
"PassivePollPeriod" dword 00000005

The other way to clamp down on it, is the Notification control. There
is an entry called "Network", and you could switch off Notification
there if you want, as a last ditch effort at control. You could
leave the icon, as the icon could switch states if you were
really offline, and it wasn't a burp or hiccup.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...getfile/187817

*******

There's a little bit of info on passive polling here.

https://support.umbrella.com/hc/en-u...llow-Triangle-


"Appendix A: Passive Polling

Windows also uses a technique called 'Passive Polling' to monitor
for traffic received from the internet. If the "No Internet Access"
warning is displayed incorrectly it is likely your environment
is affected by an issue with Passive Polling.

Passive Polling works by analyzing the TTL (Time To Live)
in the IP header of TCP/UDP packets. The TTL is analyzed to
determine how many "hops" the packet has taken to reach the
computer.

When a received packet has crossed more than the default of 8 hops
the system is deemed to have Internet Connectivity.

In some circumstances the Passive Polling technique may be
inconsistent,
for example:

Running Windows in a desktop virtual machine such as Parallels
Desktop
or VMware Fusion/Workstation.

When other networking software such as firewalls, proxy servers,
or certain VPN clients reset the TTL.

In an environment where there is a low number of packets received
from the internet. For example, when Internet Access is strictly
locked down.

When multiple network interfaces are connected, passive
polling may fail
on one or more of these.
"

Further down, we can see how these might help:

Reduce the Passive Hop count threshold to 1 (this is the minimum):

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet\
"MinimumInternetHopCount" DWORD 1

That would take the place of the default hop count of 8 for detecting
Internet-bound packets. It would mean that virtually any traffic
on the affected port, would "satisfy" the passive probing technique.
However, a total lack of traffic on the port in question, would
still result in the passive method detecting a failure. It doesn't
really handle "zero" traffic all that well.

Changing the passive polling period isn't really a solution,
unless some value is "infinity" :-) They bumped it up by a factor
of 6 in the example.

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\NlaSvc\Para meters\Internet
"PassivePollPeriod" dword 30

Whereas that notification control dialog, we could leave the icon
alone, and continue to have a networking icon in the tray area,
and just switch off Notifications. The icon status should differentiate
between solid failures, versus the (wrong) transient notifications
you get via the notification mechanism.

Take careful notes, for when Microsoft "fixes" this again.
In their own special "rinse and repeat" way. You might have
to undo your changes later.

Paul (who is still waiting for MSFT to fix his broken Win10 webcam,
which worked just fine thanks, in 10240)


I've only had this happen on a slow machine. Perhaps something is
taking longer than Windows expects?

But I don't understand why it didn't warn me when there was no
connectivity at all. My router had crashed, there was no way to connect
to the internet whatsoever.


Only passive networking was happening at the time. Perhaps the
background network activity (ARP or whatever) from your PC, was
sufficient to keep the passive monitoring happy or something.

With your router crashed, there might still have been packets
using the switch side of the router, and comms there are
"mostly mechanical", and code doesn't have to run on the router.

With the cable unplugged on the other hand, you could lose
"heartbeat", and the PHY could raise an exception. I don't
remember the details of how heartbeat works any more, but
something regularly buzzes between the computer and the
router to prove the wire is there.

Going from Ethernet Port to Wifi on a router, probably
requires that the router code run properly. Ethernet Port
to Ethernet Port on the four LAN connectors, is a "free lunch".
Going between dissimilar LAN items takes some processor.


To confuse matters further, the way fibre broadband works in the UK, we seem to have TWO routers. The "fibre" (which is actually just the standard copper wire that was my voice line from my house to the fibre cabinet 300 yards away) enters the telephony company's router (it's in my house, but it was supplied for me and is my property). That's then connected by an Ethernet cable to my ISP's router (again, provided free and belongs to me), which provides wireless and several more ethernet ports to the computers. Not sure why they seperate the two boxes. Maybe it's easier to work out whether the phone company or the ISP needs to fix a problem, and easier to upgrade one and not the other when they change the fibre system or you buy a faster speed. I don't know which had crashed, I just power-cycled both.
  #7  
Old November 4th 18, 08:12 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Steven Watkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default "you appear to be offline"

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 08:09:00 -0000, Big Bad Bob wrote:

On 10/28/18 12:42, Undersized hippopotamus wrote:
What is the purpose of this message from the system tray?

I've seen it appear while in the middle of an 8Mb/s transfer (so clearly
I'm not offline), and I've seen it not appear when my router needs
rebooting and nothing can connect to the internet at all.

It seems to have no grasp of reality whatsoever.


It's probably integrated with micro-****'s SLURPware, trying to track
you online...


It seems the only way to get privacy nowadays is to buy a rocket and go live on Mars.
  #8  
Old November 4th 18, 08:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
UnsteadyKen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default "you appear to be offline"

In article ,
says...
Not sure why they seperate the two boxes.

One is the modem and the other the router/switch.

Nowadays, they are combined in one box,such as the BT smart hub.
  #9  
Old November 5th 18, 12:18 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default "you appear to be offline"

In article , Steven Watkins
wrote:

Not sure why they seperate the two boxes.

One is the modem and the other the router/switch.

Nowadays, they are combined in one box,such as the BT smart hub.


I don't understand. Back in the old days, you had say a USB modem. One end
was for the telephone line, one end was for the computer.


those days are long, long gone.

Two boxes simply
does not make sense.


yes it does. it adds a flexibility, plus the equipment the isp provides
is often locked down and/or has back doors.

The outer box I have connects to the phone line (fibre)
on one side, and produces something on an ethernet cable on the other side.
Why can't that plug directly into the computer?


it can, but then you're limited to only one device.
  #11  
Old November 5th 18, 07:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default "you appear to be offline"

Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2018 19:43:53 -0000, Unsteadyken
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Not sure why they seperate the two boxes.

One is the modem and the other the router/switch.

Nowadays, they are combined in one box,such as the BT smart hub.


I don't understand. Back in the old days, you had say a USB modem. One
end was for the telephone line, one end was for the computer. Two boxes
simply does not make sense. The outer box I have connects to the phone
line (fibre) on one side, and produces something on an ethernet cable on
the other side. Why can't that plug directly into the computer?


You don't really want customers handling fiber optical
cable and connectors.

As a result, some high-speed services are "partitioned"
into multiple boxes.

Perhaps the provider trusts you to plug in an RJ45,
as an RJ45 is reasonably hard to damage. The biggest
source of damage, might be your cat chewing through
the CAT5/CAT6 cable.

I used to work with fiber patch cords in the lab,
and the facet on the connector is easily damaged.
I even had the proper cleaner for them and everything,
and after a few days, I'd pop one on the optical power meter,
and the light output would be down 20dB and it
would be cooked. The problem there, was multiple people
handling them. And some fiber connectors are just a
bad design, and destined to be broken. You can never get
people to put dust caps on stuff when it's not in usage.

You really need a microscope to see how you're ruining
them. The working aperture is only 50u on single mode fiber.
And two things 50u wide, have to line up for light
transfer. Single mode is used for transfers over
longer distances (unlike the TOSLINK you use for
your AV Receiver, which is dental fiber and uses
red LED light).

About half way down the page here, you can see four
connector types. There are many more types than this
in the lab.

https://www.newport.com/t/fiber-optic-basics

In addition to fiber connectors, there's splicing, and
that's how we used to do stuff at first, was make permanent
connections between items. We even had big rolls of fiber
optic cable in the lab at first, for simple distance tests.
Rolls big enough, you'd bring them in with a fork lift.
I wasn't there when they were delivered, which is probably
a good thing. It's still possible that telco stuff is
using fusion splicing for connections, with excess fiber
stored in splice trays. And I see the price hasn't come down
all that much. The ones we used, used to cost $5K per unit.
The nice thing about a splice though, is really low loss.

https://apollotech.com.au/shop/a-118...usion-splicer/

Paul
  #13  
Old November 5th 18, 09:05 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
mechanic
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Posts: 1,064
Default "you appear to be offline"

On Mon, 05 Nov 2018 00:12:43 -0000, Steven Watkins wrote:

The outer box I have connects to the phone line (fibre) on one
side, and produces something on an ethernet cable on the other
side. Why can't that plug directly into the computer?


Having two boxes (in the UK) goes back to the earlier days of fibre.
The most popular scheme at the moment (again in the UK) is a fibre
connection to a local cabinet, where the various customer channels
are separated and connected via individual copper pairs to the
customer. At first these systems were entirely the responsibility of
BT Openreach and typically an engineer visit was needed to set the
thing up. The modem supplies a TCP/IP data stream to a router which,
er, routes the data packets to individual machines on the same
premises. Nowadays with the march of progress the two boxes are
combined into one and supplied part configured by the ISP.
Installing is thus much simpler and is usually left to the end user.
  #14  
Old November 6th 18, 02:00 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Steven Watkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default "you appear to be offline"

On Mon, 05 Nov 2018 20:05:51 -0000, mechanic wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2018 00:12:43 -0000, Steven Watkins wrote:

The outer box I have connects to the phone line (fibre) on one
side, and produces something on an ethernet cable on the other
side. Why can't that plug directly into the computer?


Having two boxes (in the UK) goes back to the earlier days of fibre.
The most popular scheme at the moment (again in the UK) is a fibre
connection to a local cabinet, where the various customer channels
are separated and connected via individual copper pairs to the
customer. At first these systems were entirely the responsibility of
BT Openreach and typically an engineer visit was needed to set the
thing up. The modem supplies a TCP/IP data stream to a router which,
er, routes the data packets to individual machines on the same
premises. Nowadays with the march of progress the two boxes are
combined into one and supplied part configured by the ISP.
Installing is thus much simpler and is usually left to the end user.


So it was either two companies not wanting problems that weren't their fault, or a badly designed primary router (the one nearest the outside world) that couldn't provide more than one output, or wireless, or they couldn't be bothered having the circuitry to log into the ISP.
  #15  
Old November 6th 18, 04:12 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default "you appear to be offline"

On Tue, 06 Nov 2018 01:00:23 -0000, "Steven Watkins"
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2018 20:05:51 -0000, mechanic wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2018 00:12:43 -0000, Steven Watkins wrote:

The outer box I have connects to the phone line (fibre) on one
side, and produces something on an ethernet cable on the other
side. Why can't that plug directly into the computer?


Having two boxes (in the UK) goes back to the earlier days of fibre.
The most popular scheme at the moment (again in the UK) is a fibre
connection to a local cabinet, where the various customer channels
are separated and connected via individual copper pairs to the
customer. At first these systems were entirely the responsibility of
BT Openreach and typically an engineer visit was needed to set the
thing up. The modem supplies a TCP/IP data stream to a router which,
er, routes the data packets to individual machines on the same
premises. Nowadays with the march of progress the two boxes are
combined into one and supplied part configured by the ISP.
Installing is thus much simpler and is usually left to the end user.



The following will all make more sense when you stop calling the modem a
second router.

So it was either two companies not wanting problems that weren't their fault


No, two products that do totally different, but equally useful, things.

or a badly designed primary router (the one nearest the outside world)


A modem is very different from a router. Your "primary router" is a
modem, not a router.

that couldn't provide more than one output


More Ethernet ports = Ethernet switch. For a long time now, small
Ethernet switches have been included in a router chassis so that people
don't have to deal with yet another discrete networking component.

or wireless


That's an access point. Much like the Ethernet switch described above,
it's common now to include an access point in the router chassis so that
people don't have to deal with yet another discrete networking
component.

or they couldn't be bothered having the circuitry to log into the ISP.


With DSL, (what you described), that job is usually bundled with the
modem, although it doesn't have to be. Wherever it exists, you only need
one of it.

 




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