Anyone familiar with RAID arrays on laptops?

I have an XP media center laptop with a 300GB C drive spanning two HDDs. There is also an 8 gb recovery partition which doesnt seem to be part of the array

If I disable RAID in the bios, will it effectively format the drives so that I lose the XP installation if I ever try to re-enable RAID later?

Is it naive to think that if I have only 8GB used on this 300GB "drive", the XP installation must be in the beginning part of the first HDD?

On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:48:53 -0800 (PST), Amanda Ripanykhazova
wrote:

I have an XP media center laptop with a 300GB C drive spanning two HDDs. There is also an 8 gb recovery partition which doesnt seem to be part of the array

If I disable RAID in the bios, will it effectively format the drives so that I lose the XP installation if I ever try to re-enable RAID later?

Is it naive to think that if I have only 8GB used on this 300GB "drive", the XP installation must be in the beginning part of the first HDD?

If you disable SATA RAID (IOW set it to ATA) it the HD will
probably not be accessible anymore. You will get the famous 0x0000007B
BSOD
I recently inherited a lovely little laptop. Set it to ATA,
nuked the partitions using a GParted boot CD (after saving all the
drivers with double driver AND driver magician), re partitioned and
reinstalled XP.
Lightening fast. Though it took me a week to find the touch
pad driver. Neither programs backed up the correct one. Not that it
mattered, I prefer a mouse. But the little yellow mark in the hardware
manager ****ed me off.
What do you need the RAID for, anyway ?
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

Is my proposed setuo even easier? I wanted XP on hdd1 and Linux mint on hdd2

Is retaining XP not going to be practical?

Amanda Ripanykhazova wrote:
I have an XP media center laptop with a 300GB C drive spanning two HDDs.

There is also an 8 gb recovery partition which doesnt seem to be part of the array
If I disable RAID in the bios, will it effectively format the drives so
that I lose the XP installation if I ever try to re-enable RAID later?

Is it naive to think that if I have only 8GB used on this 300GB "drive",
the XP installation must be in the beginning part of the first HDD?

What is the make and model of the laptop ?

There is more than one reason for RAID to be enabled.

I wouldn't change anything, until you had a *solid*
plan of action prepared.

And that plan would include a backup to an external
disk, before you do anything else.

*******

While you're writing down the make and model number, you
might also enter the BIOS setup screen. In there,
if chipset RAID is present, pressing ctrl-I or
some similar control key pair, will get you to
the BIOS RAID setup screen. In there, you can
write down the model numbers of the two 320GB HDDs
involved. That would be a form of proof as to
what is there.

Some laptops, have an option where the optical drive
can be removed, and a second hard drive can be placed
in the optical drive bay. There is a mounting bracket
for that purpose. Without that, workstation class laptops
with two hard drive bays, are a less common kind of
laptop (they're too thick and bulky to make most users happy).

*******

WinXP is a relatively old OS for the second possibility.
Intel makes a chipset feature, where a flash storage
device functions as a "cache" for a regular hard drive.
That mode of operation, happens to use the Intel RAID
driver. When looking in the RAID setup screen in the BIOS,
you'd see a 320GB hard drive, and maybe a 20GB flash device,
listed as RAID storage devices. There might not even
be a WinXP version of driver for that hardware feature,
so it's hard to imagine this as being your configuration.
You'd have to be a rocket scientist to get that working
with WinXP. What that combo gives you, is faster boot
times, but not much else. The caching mode just happens
to be packaged in a certain version of the Intel RAID driver.

For the more complicated situations, I would proceed
a lot slower... :-) Nobody wants a bricked computer.

Paul

Many thanks for your very full reply on this perplexing issue, the computer is a Sony Vaio vgn-ar170n with an awesome 17 inch screen and the drives are two similar Fujitsu 160gb drives.

Intel Storage Manager does report exactly as you say but as I mention, there is a curious hidden partition which I has assumed is the recovery partition.

My present intention is to dump XP and install Mint as there doesn't seem to be a way of either preserving the installation; or of reinstalling XP after installing mint through GRUB. They don't seem to play nice together and in any event, any re-install procedure would probably be a ludicrous waste of time, what with all the updates, activations, restarts, re-checks, more interminable restarts, even more lengthy re-checks ad nauseam etc.

Do you see anything going on beyond an early attempt on a heavy 17inch laptop to get a 300 gb drive by using two el-cheapo 160gb drives? Mint doesnt seem to have an easy install procedure on a RAID system and just gives unknown partman error 141 messages on a RAID system install attempt.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 18:16:18 -0800 (PST), Amanda Ripanykhazova
wrote:

Is my proposed setuo even easier? I wanted XP on hdd1 and Linux mint on hdd2

Is retaining XP not going to be practical?

Unless it was setup by you, I'd just nuke it. You never know
what the previous owner installed. Save the drivers though, some can
be very hard to find, specially Dell, who removed ALL XP drivers from
their site at the request of M$. You can't even get XP drivers for
laptops that shipped with XP.
That's (dis)Service for you !!!!!
[]'s

Just read your second reply. Yours is Sony. Check if the Sony
site has XP drivers for your model, and if you can, turn off that
Intel-phone-home module ... install only the chipset drivers, not the
software.
A recovery disk is NOT the same as a "drivers", as it will
usually install unwanted/trial and datamining software.
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

That was what I meant by the massive pain in the neck factor of XP reinstallation. Not sure how to retain drivers en masse but at the moment, USB is completely non-working, nor for some reason is USB boot, even when enabled in the BIOS

On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 13:53:02 -0800 (PST), Amanda Ripanykhazova
wrote:

That was what I meant by the massive pain in the neck factor of XP reinstallation. Not sure how to retain drivers en masse but at the moment, USB is completely non-working, nor for some reason is USB boot, even when enabled in the BIOS

Hum, sounds like a hardware problem, or maybe the USB isn't
properly set up. Test it in another computer.

As to backing up drivers:

Double Driver (portable freeware)

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/...e-Driver.shtml

Home site closed, I think

And driver magician do good driver backups. Last one is not
free, or maybe it is, I'm so used to giveaway offers I'm not sure how
the free version works, I don't think I've ever used it.


http://www.drivermagician.com/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The best driver pack out there is Snappy Driver Installer, no
spyware, no datamining, but it's a massive download if you download
the torrent version.

https://sdi-tool.org/

Covers just about every driver released over the last 10
years. BUT it's over 12GB. Excellent for techs.

Torrent to the latest version is always

http://driveroff.net/SDI_Update.torrent
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

This is turning into an even worse nightmare. Intel matrix storage manager does have an option numbered 3 to reset the system to two SATA drives but one doesnt seem to be able to either move to option 3, go up or down, highlight 3 or implement the change.

Anyone have any experience of this please?

Amanda Ripanykhazova wrote:
This is turning into an even worse nightmare.

Intel matrix storage manager does have an option numbered 3
to reset the system to two SATA drives but one doesnt seem
to be able to either move to option 3, go up or down, highlight 3
or implement the change.

Anyone have any experience of this please?

I decided to try a RAID setup on my typing computer here
(i.e. this computer).

I have a couple scratch drives, previously "cleaned" from
a RAID experiment. I used those again.

I selected this machine, because it has ICH9R. Your machine
is ICH7R. Both have Intel Matrix Storage Manager.

The BIOS MSM allows setting up two volumes across the RAID Array.
So there are two disk drives, and each "array" is like a disk
drive. There is in effect, a "reliable" 8GB drive, and a
"speedy" 900GB drive. The BIOS will not allow defining
more than this.

Disk 1 Disk 2
8GB mirror -- Mirror --
900GB stripe -- Striped --

The BIOS setup screen is very "brittle". It *never* shows
a notation, explaining the capabilities of the setup, and
why an option is grayed out. When I defined the first volume,
I could set the size. When I defined the second volume,
it insisted the rest of the two disks be used. It didn't
even present a menu showing the two disks, because it was
"implicit" that the two connected disks were the only possible
candidates. Now, maybe as a user, I would appreciate seeing
the model numbers, and perhaps I could avoid a terrible accident
by seeing the drive identifiers before I created volumes on it.
But the BIOS only presents as much info, as its built-in
rules allow.

Now, the first question you might have, is "why did you make
two volumes?". When I tried to install WinXP, it insisted
it needed to write "boot information" (43MB) somewhere. The
stripe would need a driver to make it work. Apparently while
booting, the driver isn't running yet. By storing the boot
info in the 8GB volume, the error message went away.

In Disk Management, that means the 8GB partition is marked
as "System", because it has the equivalent of /boot in it.

The large partition is marked "Boot", because it has the
rest of files that make up C: (the system files).

So next I set up Intel Matrix Storage Manager in WinXP. It
wasn't really allowing me to change anything. I could "delete"
an array, and define a new one, but obviously that has limitations.
It seems designed to encourage "backup and restore" as a
redefinition method. Do a backup, delete the array(s),
define new array(s), then restore.

I was able to use my copy of Partition Magic 7 to resize the
8GB partition, so it didn't take up the whole volume. My plan was,
"well, if I stick Linux swap and Linux /boot in the first volume,
all will be well". It didn't turn out that way.

I also investigated switching to Intel RST driver. I was not
able to find a WinXP version. The Intel driver finder application
uses .NET 4.5 (on purpose of course), and you cannot install
..NET 4.5 on WinXP. So on purpose, Intel broke that thing so
I could not use it. That prevented me from thoroughly searching
for an RST version that would work. Eventually, I had to give up.

At some point in the past, I had a look at the Intel metadata on
a RAID setup, and it seemed to have room to hold 16 array definitions.
But I doesn't seem my BIOS, nor the driver I could get, would
allow me to improve my setup in any way.

*******

Next, I moved on to the Linux Mint 17.3 Mate x86 part of the
experiment. With the 8GB partition resized, and the WinXP
reduced to 24GB, I had room on both volumes to place extra
partitions.

I wanted to use MD to manage the disk. Mint used DM.
Mint started the install, and it bails out early on.
It wouldn't even format the main partition I'd defined.
The install screen went back to the beginning.

8GB Windows boot materials?
Linux Swap
Linux /BOOT

900GB 24GB Windows C: NTFS
Linux / mount point forms the rest

That's what I was trying to do.

I could find a recipe that recommends apt-get mdadm,
but when I tried that and had it scan the partitions,
it was getting all sorts of errors, and when I ran GPARTED,
the original dm management of the arrays was still in
place. There wasn't much point using "ubiquity /b" to
do an install without the GRUB step, then chroot and
do the GRUB part by hand. If mdadm cannot scan and
set up the array, that's enough fun for me.

Another possibility, is to use WUBI, but I could also
find a warning not to do that if RAID is involved.
WUBI was removed from Mint 17.3, and that had to
do with Win8 OEM machines using UEFI, which WUBI
could not handle. So the WUBI project stopped. And
WUBI has been removed from download spots.

That leaves making a LiveUSB flash stick with
persistent store, as a means to boot the laptop
into Linux. Which works, but isn't it going to have
exactly the same issues with the disks ? Will the
mirror and stripe work if it uses dm to run them ?
In any case, I didn't spend the time testing this,
because not everyone likes a USB flash stick protruding
from the side of their laptop.

To solve this issue, you could (as Shadow already
pointed out)

1) Back up the logical volumes using Macrium.
2) Break the array. Define the disks as separate
disks. Save and exit from the BIOS.
3) Re-enter the BIOS. Go to the part of the screen
that defines SATA mode. Disable the RAID ROM.
Select AHCI mode (as AHCI uses the same driver
files from Intel as RAID does). Save and Exit.
4) Boot your Macrium bare metal recovery CD and
restore from backup. Select just one of the
two available drives, and restore to it.
5) Reboot and test that WinXP boots.
6) Boot a Linux CD, select the second (empty)
disk, do an install. Run "sudo update-grub"
if necessary, so that both Linux and WinXP are
in the menu. Leave the BIOS set to the Linux
disk drive for booting. Use the Linux boot
manager to select WinXP when you want to boot it.
Linux will chain-load the WinXP boot area (which
is probably that 8GB partition). Update-grub
will detect Linux partitions, as long as the
os-prober package is present. At least one distro
I tested, was missing os-prober, requiring me
to install it.

I still think there is a probability of something
breaking before you are finished.

At the time that Sony came out, it was probably
a very nice, expensive machine. Too bad it has
the RAID option on it. RAID is just a source of
headaches, and I cannot recollect any USENET
poster ever saying "I'm sure glad I had RAID".
I've gotten things to work on a RAID setup,
and I did have WinXP running fine on the
2 drive RAID. But if I got a message that
something was degraded, I'd probably never figure
out which drive it is :-)

Paul

But how does one make one's way around Intel storage manager? I can Contrl-I into it but option 1 is highlighted and I don't seem to be able to DO anything in it?? I cant move to the option 3 to reset out of RAID to 2 drives mode, cant enter 3 and don't seem to be able to do anything except exit? Just for kicks, I even tried to press the highlighted 1 and it wouldn't even let me try to do that!

I even tried looking at the Intel instruction manual and IT said to do whatever you want in the BIOS, but for this consumer machine, that is extremely stripped down, with no options except SHOW/HIDE RAID.

Yes, it is a surprising pity that one cant install mint to a RAID ASSy isn't it?

Amanda Ripanykhazova wrote:
But how does one make one's way around Intel storage manager? I can Contrl-I into it but option 1 is highlighted and I don't seem to be able to DO anything in it?? I cant move to the option 3 to reset out of RAID to 2 drives mode, cant enter 3 and don't seem to be able to do anything except exit? Just for kicks, I even tried to press the highlighted 1 and it wouldn't even let me try to do that!

I even tried looking at the Intel instruction manual and IT said to do whatever you want in the BIOS, but for this consumer machine, that is extremely stripped down, with no options except SHOW/HIDE RAID.

Yes, it is a surprising pity that one cant install mint to a RAID ASSy isn't it?

I think someone who has more experience with mdadm
might know the answer.

I found the timing in the BIOS, of entering control-I
was tricky. And using the cursor arrow keys seemed to work.
And I think your symptoms are consistent with mine, in
that the Intel RAID interface "never says anything to you".
It just grays out options it doesn't want you to use,
without explanation. You have to use "Spock-like logic",
to figure out what the symptoms are trying to tell you.

The RAID BIOS should be perfectly willing to destroy your
Windows setup. It should not prevent you from deleting all
the arrays that are currently set up. The "Create" button should
not work, if you already have two arrays defined, but the
"Delete" should still work.

The other part that was surprising to me, was the response of
Ubiquity installer. After it accepted the World Map location
information, the screen twitched, and the install process
went back to the beginning again. Even if it had put an
error message on the screen, I'd have had some information
to work with. It didn't even appear to have formatted
the Linux slash partition I had defined.

The presumed steps would be

apt-get mdadm
Make mdadm take over the disks and run them.
Ubiquity /b --- Install, but don't do GRUB step
chroot, apt-get mdadm withing chroot, do GRUB step inside chroot.
exit chroot, reboot

But I got stuck at the second step, as mdadm didn't
like my RAID setup at all. Maybe there is some step
I was supposed to carry out, to get DM to release
the disks.

Paul

So you see an issue with the various linux developers not having figured out the Intel Storage Manager thing?

I have been posting for months on linux boards the problems with installing mint to RAID arrays and no one has any idea there how this should be done!

I have even tried asking Intel how to enter commands in Matrix Storage Manager and after taking a slightly pathetic first stab at it (they pretended I should upgrade my Intel XP software to Windows 10 Rapid Storage Manager!), they admitted they didn't know why Storage Manager doesn't work.

Amanda Ripanykhazova wrote:
So you see an issue with the various linux developers not having figured out the Intel Storage Manager thing?

I have been posting for months on linux boards the problems with installing mint to RAID arrays and no one has any idea there how this should be done!

I have even tried asking Intel how to enter commands in Matrix Storage Manager and after taking a slightly pathetic first stab at it (they pretended I should upgrade my Intel XP software to Windows 10 Rapid Storage Manager!), they admitted they didn't know why Storage Manager doesn't work.

I read an interesting quote here. And it happens
to resonate with what I'm seeing. Nothing on Linux
seems to like an existing RAID setup :-) Anaconda
bombed out about an hour ago, when I tried to install
Sabayon on the RAID setup.

http://www.overclockers.com/how-to-d...ke-raid-array/

"Against the common procedure, we have to install Linux
before Windows. This is because Windows partitions the
array in a way Linux can’t read, but Windows can read
the Linux partitioning."

And if that were the case, how would you get Windows back
on the setup later ? A restore from a backup might do it,
or it might not. I've never tested restoring to a RAID
array before, so I don't know what to expect. (It would be
a "bare metal restore", so the restore software on the
boot CD would need a RAID driver.)

One of the reasons I tried Sabayon, was I tried my Gentoo
LiveDVD 2016, and I was able to see some entries in /dev
I could use. And I was able to mount the Win7 C: striped
partition I'd set up. But that's the closest I got so far,
to having any Linux CD recognize the setup at all. If I tried
anything else, I was met with failure.

Paul

I am relieved to have to say that this problem is cured and seemed to result from a flakey storage manager program

Attempting to go into it a half dozen more times, finally it took some commands and allowed me to nuke the raid installation to install mint