Conflicting lists. HOSTS file, missing or can't be edited, depending.

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 16:32:55 -0500, micky
wrote:

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 14:25:03
-0500, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 07:00:48
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 00:35:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

I haven't been using localhost or 127,0 so I don't know how well its

This was a mistake. Of course I'm using 127, but I haven't been using
locahost. I don't know if that gets Shadow off the hook or not.

It's not 127, it's 127.0.0.1 (or 0.0.0.0 in Win 7 or worse
versions of windows)
And yes, all net-aware programs check your hosts file before
doing a DNS lookup so they don't leak data intended for your computer
only. (unless they are fed a numerical IP, which Win 10 and any other
decent trojan/malware does to bypass your hosts file and phone home
with your personal data, but that is besides the point).
You need 127.0.0.1 (or 0.0.0.0) in your hosts file, or windows
will not function correctly.
You DON'T need
::1 localhost
I comment it out and disable IPV6.
[]'s

handled, but see my next comment.
You use "localhost" all the time....

Because here he doesn't refer to 127 but specifically to localhost.

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?

OK, article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localhost

"Name resolution

IPv4 network standards reserve the entire 127.0.0.0/8
address block for loopback purposes. That means any packet
sent to one of those 16,777,214 addresses (127.0.0.1 through
127.255.255.254) is looped back. IPv6 has just a single address, ::1.
"

I grant that I use 127.0.0.1, but how does that mean I use localhost.
In places I've seen I used the number. Localhost is just an easier to
remember name that has to be translated to the number anyhow.

Now, imagine you just installed your own IIS web server

But I don't have my own IIS web server and he said I was using it now

on your own machine. Now, you want to test it. How do you
test it ? That the server is bound to port 80 ? You
would load this into Firefox.

http://localhost/index.html
http://127.0.0.1/index.html

That's an example of using a network aware method, purely
locally on the machine (web client Firefox and web server
IIS, talk to each other without the packet going through
the NIC chip).

You have an RPC (Remote Procedure Call) service on the machine,
even if the network cable is disconnected. Why ? So network
aware applications can resolve both the client and server
roles locally. It allows an RPC service, to service both
local and remote requests, and when someone writes code,
they can be assured there is a means for it to work properly
in both cases.

Even if a computer never ever had the network cable connected,
calls still need the services of RPC. An RPC that revolves
around the concept of localhost.

*******

And there's more to loopback than that, in engineering.
There is local loopback and remote loopback. They are
used to "verify the wires work" on networking devices.

RX ------\ -----------------------\------ Tx
| |
TX ------/ ----------------------/ ----- RX

So the idea is, there can be protocols in place, that loop
the communication just before it reaches the other end.
And this allows verifying the wires are working. You can
have protocols in place, so the two ends take turns buzzing
out the wiring. This can be used on fiber optic networks.

If we were to add "localhost" to that diagram, it's to the
right and left of the hardware. Localhost loops things before
it hits the hardware.

RX ------\ -----------------------\------ Tx
| |
TX ------/ ----------------------/ ----- RX
^ ^
| |
Localhost Localhost
Computer #1 Computer #2

Paul
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 16:35:48 -0500, micky
wrote:

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 5 Feb 2017 18:28:06
+0000, Andy Burns wrote:

micky wrote:

Shadow wrote:

You use "localhost" all the time....

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?

Every time you visit a website, or make any TCP/IP connection, windows
will look in hosts to see if there's an entry there for the host you're
connecting to, before doing a DNS query if it's not.

Unless it's a numerical IP, like the ones Win 10 uses for
"telemetry".

I think not if you specify the IP address, 127.0.0.1 for example. Why
look up a name if the number has already been given?

You can use

192.168.0.1 localhost

point everything local there and make your network adapter
192.168.0.2, but why complicate something that's worked fine (and is
the default) for decades ?
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 20:54:20
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 16:32:55 -0500, micky
wrote:

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 14:25:03
-0500, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 07:00:48
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 00:35:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

I haven't been using localhost or 127,0 so I don't know how well its

This was a mistake. Of course I'm using 127, but I haven't been using
locahost. I don't know if that gets Shadow off the hook or not.

It's not 127, it's 127.0.0.1 (or 0.0.0.0 in Win 7 or worse

Yes, I know. That was an abbreviation like FF or MS or many others
created on the fly. I'm sorry it was misleading.

versions of windows)
And yes, all net-aware programs check your hosts file before
doing a DNS lookup

But your sentence implies that the program has reason to do a DNS
lookup, and if the IP itself is given, does it?

so they don't leak data intended for your computer
only. (unless they are fed a numerical IP, which Win 10 and any other
decent trojan/malware does to bypass your hosts file and phone home
with your personal data, but that is besides the point).

That appears to be the very point. I note that you call win10 malware,
I posted to both XP and 10 because I thought the topic of conflicting
lists of filess from different file managers related to people in both
groups, but I am using 10, so it seems like you're saying that 10
bypasses the hosts file. If that is exemplifed by those 3 lines then
so does 7 and probably 8 and 8.1, because the link Paul first gave shows
that they too are malware because 7, at least, also includes

# localhost name resolution is handled within DNS itself.
# 127.0.0.1 localhost
# ::1 localhost

In the hosts file.

But none of this means that even DNS is is contacted when a valid IP
address is used in the program. But maybe for some reason it does.
Does it?

You need 127.0.0.1 (or 0.0.0.0) in your hosts file, or windows
will not function correctly.

Well in my hosts file there are no lines that are not comments. So you
must be speaking from an XP pov.

But if you might ever go to 7, 8, or 10, it's probably good that we
talked about this.

You DON'T need
::1 localhost
I comment it out and disable IPV6.
[]'s

handled, but see my next comment.
You use "localhost" all the time....

Because here he doesn't refer to 127 but specifically to localhost.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:00:00
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 16:35:48 -0500, micky
wrote:

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 5 Feb 2017 18:28:06
+0000, Andy Burns wrote:

micky wrote:

Shadow wrote:

You use "localhost" all the time....

If you had said, You use 127.0.n.n all the time, we woudln't have had
such an interesting thread.

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?

Every time you visit a website, or make any TCP/IP connection, windows
will look in hosts to see if there's an entry there for the host you're
connecting to, before doing a DNS query if it's not.

Unless it's a numerical IP, like the ones Win 10 uses for
"telemetry".

Okay. And like the numerical IPs I use in Forte Agent and Eudora.

I think not if you specify the IP address, 127.0.0.1 for example. Why
look up a name if the number has already been given?

You can use

192.168.0.1 localhost

point everything local there and make your network adapter
192.168.0.2, but why complicate something that's worked fine (and is
the default) for decades ?

I didn't use 192.168... but I did use 127.0.0.2 because I need to
distinguish mail server messages from Forte Agent from those from
Eudora, which uses 127.0.0.1.

I was going to use localhost2 in Agent, and put a line in the hosts file
to resolve that to 127.0.0.2, but I got delayed modifying the hosts
file. The previous paragraph and this one are what I meant by more
than one way to do this.

[]'s

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 5 Feb 2017 06:03:02
+0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio wrote:

In article
micky wrote:

First, how important in Win10 are the files and etc subdirectory in
C:\windows\system32\drivers??

I regularly wipe this directory. eGnerally it contains old stuff.

Good to know.

On the next reboot, Windows repopulates with the current files.

Even the protocol file!

I hate deadwood. This is just another folder for cache and temp
files.

After all this, I still haven't looked past the first page of the 400+
files.

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 23:51:53 -0000, micky wrote:

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:00:00
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 16:35:48 -0500, micky
wrote:

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 5 Feb 2017 18:28:06
+0000, Andy Burns wrote:

micky wrote:

Shadow wrote:

You use "localhost" all the time....

If you had said, You use 127.0.n.n all the time, we woudln't have had
such an interesting thread.

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use
it?

Every time you visit a website, or make any TCP/IP connection, windows
will look in hosts to see if there's an entry there for the host
you're
connecting to, before doing a DNS query if it's not.

Unless it's a numerical IP, like the ones Win 10 uses for
"telemetry".

Okay. And like the numerical IPs I use in Forte Agent and Eudora.

I think not if you specify the IP address, 127.0.0.1 for example. Why
look up a name if the number has already been given?

You can use

192.168.0.1 localhost

point everything local there and make your network adapter
192.168.0.2, but why complicate something that's worked fine (and is
the default) for decades ?

I didn't use 192.168... but I did use 127.0.0.2 because I need to
distinguish mail server messages from Forte Agent from those from
Eudora, which uses 127.0.0.1.

I was going to use localhost2 in Agent, and put a line in the hosts file
to resolve that to 127.0.0.2, but I got delayed modifying the hosts
file. The previous paragraph and this one are what I meant by more
than one way to do this.

[]'s

Yet earlier you asked:

Quote
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 07:00:48
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 00:35:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

I haven't been using localhost or 127,0 so I don't know how well its
handled, but see my next comment.
You use "localhost" all the time....

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?

I comment out the line for IPV6.
[]'s
UnQuote


Methinks he's trolling.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 12:01:39 -0000, "Kerr Mudd-John"
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 23:51:53 -0000, micky wrote:

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:00:00
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 16:35:48 -0500, micky
wrote:

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 5 Feb 2017 18:28:06
+0000, Andy Burns wrote:

micky wrote:

Shadow wrote:

You use "localhost" all the time....

If you had said, You use 127.0.n.n all the time, we woudln't have had
such an interesting thread.

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use
it?

Every time you visit a website, or make any TCP/IP connection, windows
will look in hosts to see if there's an entry there for the host
you're
connecting to, before doing a DNS query if it's not.

Unless it's a numerical IP, like the ones Win 10 uses for
"telemetry".

Okay. And like the numerical IPs I use in Forte Agent and Eudora.

I think not if you specify the IP address, 127.0.0.1 for example. Why
look up a name if the number has already been given?

You can use

192.168.0.1 localhost

point everything local there and make your network adapter
192.168.0.2, but why complicate something that's worked fine (and is
the default) for decades ?

I didn't use 192.168... but I did use 127.0.0.2 because I need to
distinguish mail server messages from Forte Agent from those from
Eudora, which uses 127.0.0.1.

I was going to use localhost2 in Agent, and put a line in the hosts file
to resolve that to 127.0.0.2, but I got delayed modifying the hosts
file. The previous paragraph and this one are what I meant by more
than one way to do this.

[]'s

Yet earlier you asked:

Quote
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 05 Feb 2017 07:00:48
-0200, Shadow wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 00:35:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

I haven't been using localhost or 127,0 so I don't know how well its
handled, but see my next comment.
You use "localhost" all the time....

Well, if so, it's working. But don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?

I comment out the line for IPV6.
[]'s
UnQuote


Methinks he's trolling.

He might be, but I note with interest that so far no one has answered
his question, have they? He asked "where do I use [localhost]", and so
far all I've seen are replies that talk about the hosts file. The hosts
file contains an entry for localhost, but localhost and the hosts file
are not at all the same thing.

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 18:46:27 -0500, micky
wrote:

I note that you call win10 malware,
I posted to both XP and 10 because I thought the topic of conflicting
lists of filess from different file managers related to people in both
groups, but I am using 10, so it seems like you're saying that 10
bypasses the hosts file. If that is exemplifed by those 3 lines then
so does 7 and probably 8 and 8.1, because the link Paul first gave shows
that they too are malware because 7, at least, also includes

# localhost name resolution is handled within DNS itself.
# 127.0.0.1 localhost
# ::1 localhost

None of them "bypass" the hosts file. They don't need it if
the remote site name has already been resolved no a numerical IP.

Study what DNS means.

As to malware, the most widely accepted definition is:

"Malware, short for malicious software, is any software used to
disrupt computer or mobile operations, gather sensitive information,
gain access to private computer systems, or display unwanted
advertising."

Sound familiar ?
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 18:51:53 -0500, micky
wrote:

Okay. And like the numerical IPs I use in Forte Agent and Eudora.

Exactly. If you use numerical IPs, you don't need the hosts
file or a DNS resolver (for those sites).
OTOH, you are quite likely to be a victim of a MITM attack if
any of your news/mail servers changes it's IP and a malicious actor
buys up the old one. Because your computer will blindly connect to
that IP, without checking if it's changed.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 18:53:09 -0500, micky
wrote:

First, how important in Win10 are the files and etc subdirectory in
C:\windows\system32\drivers??

I regularly wipe this directory. eGnerally it contains old stuff.

Good to know.

Unless Win 10 uses some new scheme, that will brick your PC. I
think the OP meant it as a joke.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 09:42:45 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

He might be, but I note with interest that so far no one has answered
his question, have they? He asked "where do I use [localhost]", and so
far all I've seen are replies that talk about the hosts file. The hosts
file contains an entry for localhost, but localhost and the hosts file
are not at all the same thing.

It was replied to various times.
"localhost" means "on this computer"

It is usually put in the hosts file as

127.0.0.1 localhost #for IPV4
::1 localhost #for IPV6

but ANY IP can be used as localhost, but that would be a BAD
idea, for security reasons.

(if you don't use IPV6 for privacy reasons, comment out that
last line and use only IPV4)

If you want your network traffic to be contained inside your
computer, you use "localhost". A lot of programs use TCP for data
transfer and never go outside your computer. I can name a dozen.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:23:16 -0200, Shadow wrote:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 09:42:45 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

He might be, but I note with interest that so far no one has answered
his question, have they? He asked "where do I use [localhost]", and so
far all I've seen are replies that talk about the hosts file. The hosts
file contains an entry for localhost, but localhost and the hosts file
are not at all the same thing.

It was replied to various times.
"localhost" means "on this computer"

It is usually put in the hosts file as

127.0.0.1 localhost #for IPV4
::1 localhost #for IPV6

but ANY IP can be used as localhost, but that would be a BAD
idea, for security reasons.

(if you don't use IPV6 for privacy reasons, comment out that
last line and use only IPV4)

If you want your network traffic to be contained inside your
computer, you use "localhost". A lot of programs use TCP for data
transfer and never go outside your computer. I can name a dozen.
[]'s

Refer to Message-ID:

micky said "I haven't been using localhost..."

you replied "You use "localhost" all the time...."

micky replied "don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?"

***

Since then, there's been a lot of discussion about what localhost means,
what loopback means, and what the hosts file does, but still nothing
that answers the question.

The answer, for the vast majority of Windows users, will be that they
don't use localhost for anything at all. They may have programs or
processes that use it for interprocess communication, but most users
won't be aware of that or involved in any way.

Personally, I used localhost to test a web server in the late 90's and
an FTP server around 2003, but I haven't used it since then. I'm
thinking most people would correctly say that they've never used it at
all, which is pretty far from "you use localhost all the time".

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 14:32:02 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:23:16 -0200, Shadow wrote:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 09:42:45 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

He might be, but I note with interest that so far no one has answered
his question, have they? He asked "where do I use [localhost]", and so
far all I've seen are replies that talk about the hosts file. The hosts
file contains an entry for localhost, but localhost and the hosts file
are not at all the same thing.

It was replied to various times.
"localhost" means "on this computer"

It is usually put in the hosts file as

127.0.0.1 localhost #for IPV4
::1 localhost #for IPV6

but ANY IP can be used as localhost, but that would be a BAD
idea, for security reasons.

(if you don't use IPV6 for privacy reasons, comment out that
last line and use only IPV4)

If you want your network traffic to be contained inside your
computer, you use "localhost". A lot of programs use TCP for data
transfer and never go outside your computer. I can name a dozen.
[]'s

Refer to Message-ID:

micky said "I haven't been using localhost..."

you replied "You use "localhost" all the time...."

micky replied "don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?"

***

Since then, there's been a lot of discussion about what localhost means,
what loopback means, and what the hosts file does, but still nothing
that answers the question.

The answer, for the vast majority of Windows users, will be that they
don't use localhost for anything at all. They may have programs or
processes that use it for interprocess communication, but most users
won't be aware of that or involved in any way.

A program I used this minute (Cherrytree) won't run if you
block localhost. It uses TCP to store my data. On my computer, of
course, it uses localhost to make sure it does not leak.
And almost all internet programs (Firefox included) use
localhost to work. So the CORRECT answer to the OP's question was "you
use it all the time".
If he is unaware of that, maybe it's time he studied a little.
If I said you use your video card "all the time" when you are
using your screen, am I being overly cryptic ?

Personally, I used localhost to test a web server in the late 90's and
an FTP server around 2003, but I haven't used it since then. I'm
thinking most people would correctly say that they've never used it at
all, which is pretty far from "you use localhost all the time".

Fire up your browser. Load Nirsoft's Current Ports. What IP is
your browser using ?
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/cports.html
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 14:32:02 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:23:16 -0200, Shadow wrote:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 09:42:45 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

He might be, but I note with interest that so far no one has answered
his question, have they? He asked "where do I use [localhost]", and so
far all I've seen are replies that talk about the hosts file. The hosts
file contains an entry for localhost, but localhost and the hosts file
are not at all the same thing.

It was replied to various times.
"localhost" means "on this computer"

It is usually put in the hosts file as

127.0.0.1 localhost #for IPV4
::1 localhost #for IPV6

but ANY IP can be used as localhost, but that would be a BAD
idea, for security reasons.

(if you don't use IPV6 for privacy reasons, comment out that
last line and use only IPV4)

If you want your network traffic to be contained inside your
computer, you use "localhost". A lot of programs use TCP for data
transfer and never go outside your computer. I can name a dozen.
[]'s

Refer to Message-ID:

micky said "I haven't been using localhost..."

you replied "You use "localhost" all the time...."

micky replied "don't be so cryptic. Where do I use it?"

***

Since then, there's been a lot of discussion about what localhost means,
what loopback means, and what the hosts file does, but still nothing
that answers the question.

The answer, for the vast majority of Windows users, will be that they
don't use localhost for anything at all. They may have programs or
processes that use it for interprocess communication, but most users
won't be aware of that or involved in any way.

A program I used this minute (Cherrytree) won't run if you
block localhost. It uses TCP to store my data. On my computer, of
course, it uses localhost to make sure it does not leak.
And almost all internet programs (Firefox included) use
localhost to work. So the CORRECT answer to the OP's question was "you
use it all the time".
If he is unaware of that, maybe it's time he studied a little.
If I said you use your video card "all the time" when you are
using your screen, am I being overly cryptic ?

Personally, I used localhost to test a web server in the late 90's and
an FTP server around 2003, but I haven't used it since then. I'm
thinking most people would correctly say that they've never used it at
all, which is pretty far from "you use localhost all the time".

Fire up your browser. Load Nirsoft's Current Ports. What IP is
your browser using ?
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/cports.html
[]'s

It might be using 127.0.0.1 . I think the point the people who say you
aren't using localhost mean is _exactly_ what they say: you're not using
the NAME localhost. You may be using the IP address 127.0.0.1, which on
most systems is what "localhost" is _translated_ to, but you're not
necessarily using that actual string of 9 characters.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Can a blue man sing the whites?

En el artículo , Paul
escribió:

HOSTS should not be empty.

s/h/it is using notepad and it's saved the file as hosts.txt.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")