Power-Cycling Windows 7 PC: Pitfalls?

On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 01:59:11 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

See my reply to Ross. Although it is possible to use a web switch to
abruptly yank power from the PC, I'm not sure turning the web switch
back on will also turn on the PC. ATX uses soft power which means
bringing up the input A/C to the PSU will not turn on the PC. You have
to be there to press the Power button.

Many PCs, NASs, etc, have a BIOS option to automatically restart after
a power outage.

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On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 18:24:35 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

I suggest a conventional management card plugged into the PC so that
it can be rebooted remotely.

For example (Note as well the others on the same page as the first):
https://www.amazon.com/Remote-Mgmt-P.../dp/B0029L4J9G
.... or Dell bespoke ...
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/g...en/ps2q02_bell
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On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:31:38 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 18:24:35 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

I suggest a conventional management card plugged into the PC so that
it can be rebooted remotely.

For example (Note as well the others on the same page as the first):

Scrub that first one as being expensive, I forgot that I'd moved off
the original page - this was the one I meant to link to ..
https://www.amazon.com/TC3100-4100-R...f=pd_sbs_147_2
.... or ...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045JRBB8?psc=1
... or Dell bespoke ...
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/g...en/ps2q02_bell
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Per VanguardLH:

Maybe there's a BIOS/UEFI setting to make the mobo power up with the PSU
gets power and somehow have the BIOS/UEFI drop the PS-ON line (on the
20-14 PSU header on the mobo) to tell the PSU to come full on.

There is on all of my PCs - and, except for my data backup server, I
have them set to automagically boot up when AC power is supplied.

I don't have that set on the data backup server because I want to be in
control of when it is online - and power failures/restores would defeat
that if it came up automagically. OTOH, when I get around to doing the
Raspberry Pi thing, I'll set it to boot up upon power restore and
control power via the Pi.
--
Pete Cresswell

Per NY:
I'd say the best thing when accessing remotely is to power-cycle the switch
and radio link, but first access the PC remotely (eg via Teamviewer)

Agreed.... but part of the weirdness is that the PC is not accessible
via TeamViewer.

Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I need to set things up so I can
RemoteDesktop to it and see how that works out.

But I'm still back to the choice between a forced power cycle every day
and as-needed power cycles.

Based on what I have heard so far, I think I'll splurge the extra ninety
bucks and go the discretionary route via a Raspberry Pi/AC Relay.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 06:10:11 -0500, Stan Brown
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 01:31:20 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:

[quoted text muted]

Many users power off their computer when they are done using it.

Yes, but I would probably say "most," rather than "many."

"many" covers "most". So saying "many" includes "most". On the other
hand, "most" exceeds or equals "many". Neither of us know the numbers.


Geeze. He was agreeing with you, with emphasis. At least that's how
it looked to me.


Yep!



People are so touchy on the Internet.



Yep!

On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 11:20:12 -0000, "NY" wrote:

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
.. .
I have a remotely-located Windows 7 PC acting as a server for a bunch of
IP cams at a second remote location.

Long story short: once or twice a month things get weird and the only
fix seems to be power-cycling the PC, switch, and radio link to the
cams.

Do you mean that if you were physically present at the house, you'd just
turn the PC's mains supply off and on?


I can't be sure, of course, but I doubt very much that that's what he
meant.


Wouldn't you do a restart from within
Windows, to make sure that everything was closed down tidily.


I assume that what he meant was doing a shutdown from within Windows,
then powering it back on again. That's almost the same as a restart,
but not quite.

On 10.02.17 9:27, VanguardLH wrote:
CRNG wrote:

Stan Brown wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Many users power off their computer when they are done using it. That
means, at least, one power cycle per day.

But that's not what the OP is proposing. He's proposing routinely
cutting the power, not routinely shutting Windows down.

+1

Um, what did I say again that you cited? That users *power down* their
PCs. Yes, those users probably do shutdown the OS. That does not
preclude that they also POWER OFF their computer. Unlike the OP, most
users want to properly shutdown the OS *before* the power gets dropped.
Maybe the OP doesn't but that doesn't obviate my statement. As yet, the
OP has not declared that his OS gets into a state where it refuses to
shutdown. So far, the OP has not mentioned criteria regarding the state
of the OS, service, and apps, if any, that their state cannot be
changed, and whether that state is allowed to change or not before
dropping power.

shutdown.exe DOES both shutting down the OS *and* powering off the PC.
ATX mobos can be powered off using OS commands or using the Power
button. "shutdown.exe /s" shuts down the OS and powers off the PC. I
would have to test if "shutdown.exe /r" for a reboot both shutdowns the
OS, powers off the PC, and then use a BIOS alarm to restore power. If
/r does a reboot without removing power then /s would have to get used
followed by using a BIOS alarm to power up: schedule shutdown.exe with
/s 5 minutes, or longer if required, before the BIOS alarm is scheduled
to power up the PC.

What happens to your PC when you run "shutdown.exe /s" in an elevated
command shell? If your PC refuses to shutdown the OS and power off
perhaps you need to add the /f argument to force unresponsive processes
to unload so the OS will shutdown.

I have been using the last 10 years :
C:\WINDOWS\system32\shutdown.exe -s -f -t 04

Without any ill effects.

Paul wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

However, I did have another thought: lots of computers will not power up
just because their A/C source came up.

Actually, there is a BIOS setting for that, and two implementations.

In the BIOS, in the Power section,

Power options:
shut off on power restored [do not start because power has come back]
power up immediately [good for servers...]
previous state [when the power comes on, put the PC in the
soft ON or soft OFF state it was previously in]

Not in the BIOS for the salvaged Acer PC that I got. It has almost no
BIOS settings. Can't even adjust or select memory settings, CPU
multiplier, etc. As I recall (since it would require a reboot to
check), the few settings available are over temperature threshold,
enable/disable of some controllers (USB, SATA), and a system password.
When I first got this box, I kept hunting around because I figured that
I had simply missed selecting a menu entry to show me the more advanced
settings. Nope, none there.

The manuals are designed for boobs as they never even touch on the BIOS
settings. "BIOS" is not even mentioned in their user guide (and it's a
BIOS mobo, not UEFI). They don't describe anything of the hardware. I
get far more info about the BIOS and hardware when I separately purchase
a motherboard. I thought laptops were poor for BIOS configurability
until I ran into this pre-built. Well, it was free and it works.

Luckily the default for this minimal BIOS is to *not* power up on
restored input power. For power outages, often the power jumps on and
off several times when it gets restored and I don't want my PC to keep
trying to restart.

On 02/09/2017 11:00 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

[snip]

Two options come to mind:

- For about $100, a Raspberry Pi hooked into an AC relay
that I can get to via the Internet and power cycle the
devices whenever I need to - basically duplicating the
current situation except that the homeowner or
neighbor is out of the picture.

How about adding a smaller relay across the PCs "power" button, so you
can give the command to shut down. Follow that in a couple of minutes by
removing power (in case the "proper" shutdown didn't work). Something like.

9:00 - Use the small relay to operate the "power" button, to tell the PC
to shutdown.

9:02 - Remove power from the PC. This makes sure it is OFF, regardless
of the success or failure of "proper procedure".

9:03 - Turn the PC's power back on.

9:08 - Verify connectivity. Maybe repeat if it still doesn't work.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature,
and it remains premature today." [Isaac Asimov]

On 02/10/2017 01:41 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

[snip]

I remember back when I used to have analog data modem cards in my PC
(full-chip modems and then Winmodems). Sometimes the card got into an
unusable state. The software could not get the card working again.
There was no way to issue a reset to the card to have it alone do a
power cycle or refresh its configuration. It was a card in a slot in
the mobo inside the case. Not safe to open the case while power was
still on and yank and reseat the card.

One reason why I preferred external modems, being able to switch the
power separately. Also, the LEDs were useful and modems were more
susceptible to surge damage during a storm.

Last time I dealt with POTS modems, a friend had noticed excessive
activity (something more hidden with an internal modem). The excessive
activity was because of THREE different pieces of malware (from too much
clicking on banner ads).

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature,
and it remains premature today." [Isaac Asimov]

Per NY:
Do you mean that if you were physically present at the house, you'd just
turn the PC's mains supply off and on?

Yes.

The deal is that we are imposing on the homeowner - who lets us run the
server out of her home office..... so asking her to jump through any
hoops is a non-starter..... we just say "Flip the switch".

OTOH, I've been there in certain circumstances and gracefully re-booting
the PC has not helped.... there's a radio link that has to be
cold-started too... and the current "Weirdness" scenario includes both
those two and, I strongly suspect, something around the Comcast cable
modem/router/switch.... my guess is that port forwarding goes down the
tubes, but all this is a hundred miles away and site visits are
expensive and infrequent.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 10:04:41 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per NY:
I'd say the best thing when accessing remotely is to power-cycle the switch
and radio link, but first access the PC remotely (eg via Teamviewer)

Agreed.... but part of the weirdness is that the PC is not accessible
via TeamViewer.

Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I need to set things up so I can
RemoteDesktop to it and see how that works out.

But I'm still back to the choice between a forced power cycle every day
and as-needed power cycles.

Based on what I have heard so far, I think I'll splurge the extra ninety
bucks and go the discretionary route via a Raspberry Pi/AC Relay.

Notably absent from the conversation so far is any mention of actually
resolving the issue that causes things to "get weird". I guess we're
different. :-)

--

Char Jackson

PeteCresswell wrote:

The deal is that we are imposing on the homeowner - who lets us run the
server out of her home office..... so asking her to jump through any
hoops is a non-starter..... we just say "Flip the switch".

OTOH, I've been there in certain circumstances and gracefully re-booting
the PC has not helped.... there's a radio link that has to be
cold-started too... and the current "Weirdness" scenario includes both
those two and, I strongly suspect, something around the Comcast cable
modem/router/switch.... my guess is that port forwarding goes down the
tubes, but all this is a hundred miles away and site visits are
expensive and infrequent.

So why not get the web switch suggested and start with a working product
rather than build something from a Raspberry Pi and a relay and hope
that works? The cheaper web switches only have 1 or 2 controlled
outlets but obviously you could put a power strip on them.

The 3G IP power switch that GlowingBlueMist gave a URL is $99 (and
Newegg, https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...09H-00WM-00001)
which is cheaper than buying a Raspberry Pi, a reasonable relay, case to
put them in, and power cord(s) plus you'll have to do the programming
and subsequent debugging. With the 3G product, you get a warranty.
Newegg is pretty good with DOA returns within 30 days and the 3G product
itself probably has a warranty (couldn't find it mentioned at the site
so you'd have to call them to ask). With your custom built gizmo,
you're the support crew.

Is it your server or the homeowners? If they are merely letting you put
your PC on their premises then I don't see the issue with you changing
the setup of your PC to add a scheduled task to run shutdown.exe about 5
to 10 minutes before you configure a BIOS alarm to power up the PC.
You'll also have to configure the BIOS to boot when powered is restored
and use an auto-login Windows account (which you would also have to do
with your proposed Rube Goldberg solution).

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 00:54:48 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

So why not get the web switch suggested and start with a working product
rather than build something from a Raspberry Pi and a relay and hope
that works? The cheaper web switches only have 1 or 2 controlled
outlets but obviously you could put a power strip on them.

Or buy a management card as I've suggested, or else an IP-KVM -
another tried and tested solution.

But I also agree with Char, that it would be best to find out what the
hell is going wrong in the first place. Has the OP tried to log in to
the PC remotely and viewing the Event Viewer, Task Manager, Registry
startup entries, etc?
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