Power-Cycling Windows 7 PC: Pitfalls?

(PeteCresswell) wrote:

Per VanguardLH:
So why not get the web switch suggested and start with a working product
rather than build something from a Raspberry Pi and a relay and hope
that works?

- Cost looks about the same

- We have an identical solution in place at the other
end of the radio link (to reboot the link, local switch,
and cams) and it has worked for a couple years now.

- I've been through one other "Working Product" and it had
a fatal flaw not apparent in the specs...

- The Pi also offers up the prospect of flexibility: we can
implement other behaviors as needed/desired.

- In a (perhaps) perverse way, it's kind of entertaining to fool
around Pi-based solutions.... -)

Ah, there's the rub: you want a project to work on and within your scope
of abilities. Okay, go with that, especially since you already have a
prototype on which to base another instance.

Per VanguardLH:
Ah, there's the rub: you want a project to work on and within your scope
of abilities.

Busted !!!!!


-)
--
Pete Cresswell

On 02/11/2017 10:31 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per VanguardLH:
So why not get the web switch suggested and start with a working product
rather than build something from a Raspberry Pi and a relay and hope
that works?

- Cost looks about the same

- We have an identical solution in place at the other
end of the radio link (to reboot the link, local switch,
and cams) and it has worked for a couple years now.

- I've been through one other "Working Product" and it had
a fatal flaw not apparent in the specs...

- The Pi also offers up the prospect of flexibility: we can
implement other behaviors as needed/desired.

- In a (perhaps) perverse way, it's kind of entertaining to fool
around Pi-based solutions.... -)

- If you find that what you have doesn't work as well as you'd like,
you can fix that. With that "working product", there's less you can do.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"A crime against god is a demonstrated impossibility." [Robert G.
Ingersoll]

My question is how many of us actually power cycle our pc's daily or for
that matter even turn the system off
I my self do when done with it but many don't.

"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 10:04:41 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per NY:
I'd say the best thing when accessing remotely is to power-cycle the
switch
and radio link, but first access the PC remotely (eg via Teamviewer)

Agreed.... but part of the weirdness is that the PC is not accessible
via TeamViewer.

Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I need to set things up so I can
RemoteDesktop to it and see how that works out.

But I'm still back to the choice between a forced power cycle every day
and as-needed power cycles.

Based on what I have heard so far, I think I'll splurge the extra ninety
bucks and go the discretionary route via a Raspberry Pi/AC Relay.

Notably absent from the conversation so far is any mention of actually
resolving the issue that causes things to "get weird". I guess we're
different. :-)

--

Char Jackson

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:10:04 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:
I didn't think it was possible to cram that many assumptions into such a
small space. ;-)

But seriously, none of this stuff is magic, although I work with people
every day for whom it apparently is exactly that. It's extremely rare
that a situation can't be diagnosed logically and methodically in order
to find the root cause of an issue.

Your experience is quite different from mine. Granted, the majority
of support calls are routine. But it is, alas, _not_ "extremely
rare" to get problems that we've never seen before, that take weeks
instead of minutes to diagnose.

It's become about an order of magnitude more common as more and more
people are getting Windows 10. Windows 10 updates seem to break
random bits of software, so every problem caused by them is different
from every other.



--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...

On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 12:00:52 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

I have a remotely-located Windows 7 PC acting as a server for a bunch of
IP cams at a second remote location.

Long story short: once or twice a month things get weird and the only
fix seems to be power-cycling the PC, switch, and radio link to the
cams.

During summer months I can usually get the owner of the property to
toggle the switch on the power strip that serves all the devices.

But other times of the year, the owner is away and getting somebody to
get in to the property and do the deed is a big deal.


Two options come to mind:

- For about $100, a Raspberry Pi hooked into an AC relay
that I can get to via the Internet and power cycle the
devices whenever I need to - basically duplicating the
current situation except that the homeowner or
neighbor is out of the picture.

- For about $10, a simple mechanical timer switch that
power cycles the PC and all once every 24 hours - so
when the cams go down, the situation is remedied
by the next day.


I like #2 for it's low cost and simplicity.

But are there pitfalls around power-cycling the
PC over-and-over again day-after-day?...

Not a power cycles but a reboot...
I use Gibson's "Wizmo" one several laptops that for some reason want
to hang every 4 days (using the run SETI as they have no other value
to me at this point)

I set up a schedualed event with the command line
wizmo.exe /reboot !

This reboots the computers.. the exclaimation point "forces" the
reboot in case it might get stuck waiting for input from me You may
ney need that option (I don't really either)

You can reboot the switch (if it's a router) remotely so that should
not be a "thing"

As for the other gear, your timer idea may work, but you should change
it's time every now and again so no one knows when it's sched'd to be
down.. (or put a tiny red LED in the camera's enclosure so folks
think it's on all the time )

On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 17:38:14 -0600, Paul in Houston TX
wrote:

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I have a remotely-located Windows 7 PC acting as a server for a bunch of
IP cams at a second remote location.

Long story short: once or twice a month things get weird and the only
fix seems to be power-cycling the PC, switch, and radio link to the
cams.

During summer months I can usually get the owner of the property to
toggle the switch on the power strip that serves all the devices.

But other times of the year, the owner is away and getting somebody to
get in to the property and do the deed is a big deal.


Two options come to mind:

- For about $100, a Raspberry Pi hooked into an AC relay
that I can get to via the Internet and power cycle the
devices whenever I need to - basically duplicating the
current situation except that the homeowner or
neighbor is out of the picture.

- For about $10, a simple mechanical timer switch that
power cycles the PC and all once every 24 hours - so
when the cams go down, the situation is remedied
by the next day.


I like #2 for it's low cost and simplicity.

But are there pitfalls around power-cycling the
PC over-and-over again day-after-day?...

Some of the less expensive equipment that we install and monitor are
essentially mini ATX computers hooked to specialized control devices.
They tend to lock up when there are nearby lightning strikes or other
odd events.
We have them set to reboot every 24 hours, thousands of them spanning
years, and we have never had a problem with daily rebooting. Some of
the equipment in really bad locations we have hooked to Power Stones and
via Ethernet we can reboot them when ever necessary.
A mechanical timer would work but power outages will vary the reboot
time considerably. Instead of rebooting at 1 AM it will end up
rebooting a 9 PM, right in the middle of a critical time period.
Electronic timers go bad. We will not use either.
Some power timers run on batteries (which, I admit need changing) so
they do not suffer from the outage problem

A UPS sounds like it might be in order here too.

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 11:27:00 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Char Jackson:
Notably absent from the conversation so far is any mention of actually
resolving the issue that causes things to "get weird". I guess we're
different. :-)

Different in the sense that I am pretty much clueless - but we have had
a fellow enthusiast (this is a windsurfing site that the cams serve) who
made enough money installing/maintaining big systems to fly first-class
everywhere he goes spend some hours reviewing WireShark dumps and come
up empty-handed.

Do you have a UPS involved (sine wave only) ? If the problem is
random electricl "hiccupps" then this might help (and protect your
toys from significant jolts)

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 04:09:37 -0500, Stan Brown
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:10:04 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:
I didn't think it was possible to cram that many assumptions into such a
small space. ;-)

But seriously, none of this stuff is magic, although I work with people
every day for whom it apparently is exactly that. It's extremely rare
that a situation can't be diagnosed logically and methodically in order
to find the root cause of an issue.

Your experience is quite different from mine. Granted, the majority
of support calls are routine. But it is, alas, _not_ "extremely
rare" to get problems that we've never seen before, that take weeks
instead of minutes to diagnose.

I didn't say anything about how long it takes to diagnose an issue, or
whether issues had been seen before. I simply pointed out that there are
methods of troubleshooting that allow you to examine an issue logically
and methodically to start ruling things out in order to drive to a
proper resolution. There's nothing logical or methodical about inserting
a device that abruptly cuts power to a running system.

It's all moot now, of course. Pete has admitted that he isn't looking
for a solution to his "gets weird" issue. He just wants a project to
play with, which is fine.

--

Char Jackson

In message ,
writes:
On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 12:00:52 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:
[]
But are there pitfalls around power-cycling the
PC over-and-over again day-after-day?...

Not a power cycles but a reboot...
I use Gibson's "Wizmo" one several laptops that for some reason want
[]
Not getting at you in particular, Gralber, since several contributors to
the thread seem to have difficulty he

Other than, of course, solving the original question of what's causing
the PC to lock up: NO _SOFTWARE_ SOLUTION IS GOING TO BE APPLICABLE. If
the PC's locked up, then relying on it running any "scheduled event" is
not going to work. (Even, AIUI, a "BIOS alarm" - those seem to rely on
the PC having been shut down by a "scheduled event".)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

By the very definition of "news," we hear very little about the dominant
threats to our lives, and the most about the rarest, including terror.
"LibertyMcG" alias Brian P. McGlinchey, 2013-7-23

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 04:09:37 -0500, Stan Brown
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:10:04 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:
I didn't think it was possible to cram that many assumptions into such a
small space. ;-)

But seriously, none of this stuff is magic, although I work with people
every day for whom it apparently is exactly that. It's extremely rare
that a situation can't be diagnosed logically and methodically in order
to find the root cause of an issue.

Your experience is quite different from mine. Granted, the majority
of support calls are routine. But it is, alas, _not_ "extremely
rare" to get problems that we've never seen before, that take weeks
instead of minutes to diagnose.

I didn't say anything about how long it takes to diagnose an issue, or
whether issues had been seen before. I simply pointed out that there are
methods of troubleshooting that allow you to examine an issue logically
and methodically to start ruling things out in order to drive to a
proper resolution. There's nothing logical or methodical about inserting
a device that abruptly cuts power to a running system.

It's all moot now, of course. Pete has admitted that he isn't looking
for a solution to his "gets weird" issue. He just wants a project to
play with, which is fine.

Ooh, you aren't half superior! Yes, (almost) no problem is
insurmountable, if you throw sufficient time (and thus money) at it. In
_practice_, especially if it is a commercial situation, there are
practical limits to how much time (money) can be expended on seeking a
solution, before applying a solution which - although it may offend the
purists - _will_ work.

For example: I work for a large company, who get their IT support from
another company; from time to time, problems arise, which, after a
certain amount of effort, I (and other users) are told Will Not Be
Solved. (To be fair, they're often shortcomings in Microsoft software,
such as Outlook losing its settings; my company is big enough to
actually have a little clout with Microsoft, but they use it sparingly,
especially if it only affects a few users.) _I_ do not have time to
spend chasing the source of problems - it's not my job, and in fact I
get reprimanded if I _do_ spend much time on IT problems; similarly, the
IT support company operatives have throughput targets.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

By the very definition of "news," we hear very little about the dominant
threats to our lives, and the most about the rarest, including terror.
"LibertyMcG" alias Brian P. McGlinchey, 2013-7-23

Per Char Jackson:
Pete has admitted that he isn't looking
for a solution to his "gets weird" issue. He just wants a project to
play with, which is fine.

That is a *slight* mis-characterization... although there is plenty
truth in it.

"Solution" is probably the wrong word by now.... "Workaround" is
probably a better one.

But it's not just a matter of wanting a play project... although the
play aspect *is* one of several factors favoring the Pi workaround.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:09:44 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 12:00:52 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:
[]
But are there pitfalls around power-cycling the
PC over-and-over again day-after-day?...

Not a power cycles but a reboot...
I use Gibson's "Wizmo" one several laptops that for some reason want
[]
Not getting at you in particular, Gralber, since several contributors to
the thread seem to have difficulty he

Other than, of course, solving the original question of what's causing
the PC to lock up: NO _SOFTWARE_ SOLUTION IS GOING TO BE APPLICABLE. If
the PC's locked up, then relying on it running any "scheduled event" is
not going to work. (Even, AIUI, a "BIOS alarm" - those seem to rely on
the PC having been shut down by a "scheduled event".)

For the folks who have suggested software workarounds, I believe the
idea is to trigger those workarounds on a tighter schedule than the
"gets weird" schedule, thus preemptively avoiding the problem.

--

Char Jackson

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:22:05 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 04:09:37 -0500, Stan Brown
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 10:10:04 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:
I didn't think it was possible to cram that many assumptions into such a
small space. ;-)

But seriously, none of this stuff is magic, although I work with people
every day for whom it apparently is exactly that. It's extremely rare
that a situation can't be diagnosed logically and methodically in order
to find the root cause of an issue.

Your experience is quite different from mine. Granted, the majority
of support calls are routine. But it is, alas, _not_ "extremely
rare" to get problems that we've never seen before, that take weeks
instead of minutes to diagnose.

I didn't say anything about how long it takes to diagnose an issue, or
whether issues had been seen before. I simply pointed out that there are
methods of troubleshooting that allow you to examine an issue logically
and methodically to start ruling things out in order to drive to a
proper resolution. There's nothing logical or methodical about inserting
a device that abruptly cuts power to a running system.

It's all moot now, of course. Pete has admitted that he isn't looking
for a solution to his "gets weird" issue. He just wants a project to
play with, which is fine.

Ooh, you aren't half superior! Yes, (almost) no problem is
insurmountable, if you throw sufficient time (and thus money) at it. In
_practice_, especially if it is a commercial situation, there are
practical limits to how much time (money) can be expended on seeking a
solution, before applying a solution which - although it may offend the
purists - _will_ work.

First, this isn't a commercial situation. It's a collection of cameras
that windsurfers can use to see what the waves are like at the moment,
or something like that.

Second, if this were a commercial situation, good luck getting a
solution approved that involves hard cutting the power! Hopefully,
anyone who presents that as a serious solution in a commercial situation
is promptly fired. No second chances if they're that dim.

Third, there's really nothing complicated about a collection of IP
cameras connected to a Windows box, which in turn is connected to the
Internet where it can be accessed by the public. The hardest part is the
100-mile trek to get to the Windows box, which is why I suggested in an
earlier post to bring the Windows box 100 miles closer. That way, it's
much easier to work on. The cameras don't care where the server sits;
they just need a network connection to it.

For example: I work for a large company, who get their IT support from
another company;

Focus Group? Sorry, they're the only ones I've heard of over there.

--

Char Jackson

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Not getting at you in particular, Gralber, since several contributors to
the thread seem to have difficulty he

Other than, of course, solving the original question of what's causing
the PC to lock up: NO _SOFTWARE_ SOLUTION IS GOING TO BE APPLICABLE. If
the PC's locked up, then relying on it running any "scheduled event" is
not going to work. (Even, AIUI, a "BIOS alarm" - those seem to rely on
the PC having been shut down by a "scheduled event".)

That's not what the OP said. No mention about the OS being locked up.
The only mention was the computer and radio gear went "weird", whatever
that is, and that he is, so far, clueless as to the cause of the
weirdness and has only describe some symptoms (none of which indicate an
OS lock, hang, or crash). Not being able to remote connect to a host
does NOT mean it is locked up.

We don't know how to resolve the problem for him because we don't know
what is happening. The OP doesn't look like he wants to spend the time
trying to determine the cause (which could end up being hardware so he
has nothing he can fix). The OP just wants to power cycle his gear
because he knows that works (for awhile).