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  #31  
Old June 27th 18, 06:13 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
cameo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default Microsoft Rewards?

On 6/26/2018 7:35 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
cameo wrote:

I keep getting this email from
, but the email does not
address me by my regular name just by my first name initial. Sounds like
some phishing scam, so I don't click on its hot area. Has any of you got
it, too?


If you no longer want to get those e-mails, you can unsubscribe from
them. Login and see if the following URL works:

https://account.microsoft.com/profile/communications

Else, somewhere in your account should be communication preference
settings where you can opt out of all of their superfluous messages.

Not a problem after seeing that it is not really a scam. But thanks for
the tip nevertheless.
Ads
  #32  
Old June 28th 18, 12:23 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| I don't _think_ your inversion is correct - try it with "includes":
| X includes Y and Z, but X is included of Y and Z? I think not. (Wouldn't
| work with "contains", either.)

My Websters dictionary lists both usages:

1) include. contain.

2) to consist of (a nation comprising 13 states)


I like; no "of".


3) to make up; form; constitute (a nation comprised of 13 states)

At the end of # 3 it then says this: "In this
sense regarded by some as a loose usage."


I'm one of those some. (Is that grammatical?)

I kid you not. Though one wonders what they
mean by loose here, doesn't one? It sounds like
a passive-aggressive moral judgement, accusing
someone of conjugating with shady characters.


Lovely!

Then again, what isn't loose by British standards?


(Don't talk to me about British Standards. The British Standards
Institution charges for them. [IMO standards, like patents and several
other similar things, should be free.])


| I think comprise (and include, for that
| matter) are verbs that can't _be_ passivated.

I do hope they shoot people in England for such
lawless verbification.


I am _really_ enjoying your use of language (-:.

Interestingly, passivate actually is a word. It
means to put a protective coating on metal.


I actually knew that (hence my "(?!)"). I don't think it ever meant make
passive though - not of a verb anyway!

One of the MS pages about their rewards
suggests that people can visit the rewards
options page when they feel "spendy". But


I rather like "spendy"!

MS are comprised of techies, who have never


(You did that "comprised of" deliberately, didn't you!)

been famour for literacy. MS have a long history
of artlessly contorting the language in the
interest of marketing. Even Bill Gates, who
comprises the most geniussy guy in his own mind,
seems to limit himself to only one, adolescent,
superlative: super. As in, "That chick is super
well comprised."

My parents would have loved your love of language.

There was a BBC comedy series (called "The Fall and Rise of Reginald
Perrin" - I'd recommend it), in which there were a couple of young men
characters; when a boss said something, one of them would almost always
say "great", to which the other would inevitably respond "super". After
a reversal of fortune of the company, they got jobs similar to what
they'd had before, but changed to "marvellous" and "terrific".

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

so that the vendors can "serve you better". As if you were a tennis ball, I
guess. - Wolf K, in alt.windows7.general, 2014-7-21
  #33  
Old June 28th 18, 12:53 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| One of the MS pages about their rewards
| suggests that people can visit the rewards
| options page when they feel "spendy". But
|
| I rather like "spendy"!
|

Really? I cringed at it. But I've noticed that
Brits like a touch of cuteness. Windy, for instance.
Or the nicknames among the upper class, which
seem to be silly in direct proportion to a person's
social importance.

| MS are comprised of techies, who have never
|
| (You did that "comprised of" deliberately, didn't you!)
|

I'll never tell.

| There was a BBC comedy series (called "The Fall and Rise of Reginald
| Perrin" - I'd recommend it), in which there were a couple of young men
| characters; when a boss said something, one of them would almost always
| say "great", to which the other would inevitably respond "super". After
| a reversal of fortune of the company, they got jobs similar to what
| they'd had before, but changed to "marvellous" and "terrific".

I've often appreciated British culture for the
use of English. It's their language and it shows.
They often use it respectfully and lovingly.
I liked the Jeeves And Wooster series for that.
It was also a great example of silly upper class
names.

In the US there's little appreciation for the art
of language. Like everything else, it's an athletic
competition, with points being awarded for swagger
and fashion, yo.



  #34  
Old June 28th 18, 05:04 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 586
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

"Mayayana" wrote in message
news
In the US there's little appreciation for the art
of language. Like everything else, it's an athletic
competition, with points being awarded for swagger
and fashion, yo.


America is great for coming up with new usages and phrases which we in the
UK condemn as "too American", and then a few decades later we start to adopt
as if we'd invented them :-)

However the one word that still grates on my ears, several decades after I
first heard it, is the business buzzword "leverage", as in "we will grow (*)
our business in order to leverage an increase in market penetration". OK, I
made that one up! I don't know whether it means anything because I've never
known *precisely* what "leverage" means. And anyway, in the UK we pronounce
the noun "leever" rather than "levver", so it would be "levverage" :-)

The ultimate teeth-on-edge usage is when someone asks a waiter "can I get a
cup of coffee" - meaning "will *you* get *me* a cup of coffee". "Can I get"
suggests that I want to go to the machine and get myself a cup, which is not
what you are asking the waiter.


(*) That's another bugbear: the transitive use of "grow" in the sense of
"cause to grow". You can grow flowers, but growing a business - what sort of
seeds do you start with? ;-)

  #35  
Old June 28th 18, 05:35 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Big Al[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,588
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

On 06/28/2018 12:04 PM, NY wrote:
"Mayayana" wrote in message
news
* In the US there's little appreciation for the art
of language. Like everything else, it's an athletic
competition, with points being awarded for swagger
and fashion, yo.


America is great for coming up with new usages and phrases which we in
the UK condemn as "too American", and then a few decades later we start
to adopt as if we'd invented them :-)

However the one word that still grates on my ears, several decades after
I first heard it, is the business buzzword "leverage", as in "we will
grow (*) our business in order to leverage an increase in market
penetration". OK, I made that one up! I don't know whether it means
anything because I've never known *precisely* what "leverage" means. And
anyway, in the UK we pronounce the noun "leever" rather than "levver",
so it would be "levverage" :-)

The ultimate teeth-on-edge usage is when someone asks a waiter "can I
get a cup of coffee" - meaning "will *you* get *me* a cup of coffee".
"Can I get" suggests that I want to go to the machine and get myself a
cup, which is not what you are asking the waiter.

I would say the sentence should be "may I get a cup of coffee" if that
was the intent, as I know I can, but may I? That's a teeth-on-edge
thing for me, the can/may and their/there/they're issue. I stop or
I'll go on for pages. :-)


(*) That's another bugbear: the transitive use of "grow" in the sense of
"cause to grow". You can grow flowers, but growing a business - what
sort of seeds do you start with? ;-)


Al
  #37  
Old June 28th 18, 09:54 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

"NY" wrote
| However the one word that still grates on my ears, several decades after I
| first heard it, is the business buzzword "leverage", as in "we will grow
(*)
| our business in order to leverage an increase in market penetration". OK,
I
| made that one up! I don't know whether it means anything because I've
never
| known *precisely* what "leverage" means. And anyway, in the UK we
pronounce
| the noun "leever" rather than "levver", so it would be "levverage" :-)
|

I think that kind of thing is getting worse because
a lot of effort is going into calculating language for
effect. White collar people often have jargon for their
particular trade and also jargon to make them sound
intelligent or dynamic or both.

Microsoft uses leverage a lot: "Leveraging solutions
across the enterprise". Which means make use of
software in business. My understanding of that is
that leverage, in that case, means the same thing
as using a stick to lift a heavy load; accomplishing
more with what you've got.

Software is not a solution, of course, until it solves
a problem. But the Microsofties like to grant it that
status beforehand. In fact, at some point they switched
from calling software projects in Visual Studio "projects"
and started calling them solutions. They don't even
exist as usable software yet, but they're already
solutions.

Personally I think that use of leverage is a case of
wanting to seem dynamic. Impact is similar. As in,
"that movie was so impactful I cried". Normally people
would probably say they were affected by the movie.
But that's qualitative. It can't be measured by science.

It's all a way of rendering experience in terms that
could almost be measured using physics equations:
leverage and impact. And of course the psycho-babble
"community" are only too happy to assure us that yes,
indeed, with the new dynamic MRIs we can measure
impaction scientifically.

But it seems to be more extreme with tech people,
who tend to lack a sense of poetry. They get used
to thinking in concrete terms. 1+1 always equals 2.
There's no qualitative aspect. No texture. No irony.
No ambiguity. I notice that in myself when I do
a lot of programming. Artfulness dissipates.

Experience is another interesting word. Microsoft
have adopted that in their marketing. They talk about
their products providing experiences, as though
experience itself were a measurable, buyable consumer
product.

I find the most extreme language aggression comes
from what I think of as liberal fascists. The politically
correct people who insist that everyone follow their
way. The left-wing equivalent of the Trumpian redneck.

For example, "cisgender", which means male or
female. Or rather, it means a man or woman who
actually believes themselves to be a man or woman,
and not some creative gender hybrid.

There's a lot of talk lately about non-binary
gender, which of course is a contradiction. But these
people assert their view that gender should be a
lifestyle freedom by denying that it has real existence;
asserting that it's merely a social device.

Thus, cisgender, or someone believing themselves
to be the gender that they are, defines one category
of gender and thereby creates endless new categories.
Cisgender implies the existence of transgender, bi,
hermaphroditic, or the gender of the week, as all
being equal *choices*.




  #38  
Old June 28th 18, 10:19 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Apd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

"NY" wrote:
America is great for coming up with new usages and phrases which we in the
UK condemn as "too American", and then a few decades later we start to adopt
as if we'd invented them :-)


Or spelling which we (UK) think of as American but in many cases has
origins in English/Latin/French and where both forms were used (e.g.
by Shakespeare) before the UK and US standardised (standardized) on
their own particular preferences.

However the one word that still grates on my ears, several decades after I
first heard it, is the business buzzword "leverage"


"We must develop knowledge optimization initiatives to leverage our
key learnings".

http://dilbert.com/strip/1998-11-26

You can add to that my bugbear: "going forward". Well, where else is
your business going - backwards, sideways?


  #39  
Old June 28th 18, 11:25 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 22:19:21 +0100, "Apd" wrote:

"NY" wrote:
America is great for coming up with new usages and phrases which we in the
UK condemn as "too American", and then a few decades later we start to adopt
as if we'd invented them :-)


Or spelling which we (UK) think of as American but in many cases has
origins in English/Latin/French and where both forms were used (e.g.
by Shakespeare) before the UK and US standardised (standardized) on
their own particular preferences.

However the one word that still grates on my ears, several decades after I
first heard it, is the business buzzword "leverage"


"We must develop knowledge optimization initiatives to leverage our
key learnings".

http://dilbert.com/strip/1998-11-26

You can add to that my bugbear: "going forward". Well, where else is
your business going - backwards, sideways?


In addition to all of the above, I'll add any sentence that begins with,
"At the end of the day..."

--

Char Jackson
  #40  
Old June 28th 18, 11:40 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 12:35:09 -0400, Big Al wrote:

On 06/28/2018 12:04 PM, NY wrote:
"Mayayana" wrote in message
news
* In the US there's little appreciation for the art
of language. Like everything else, it's an athletic
competition, with points being awarded for swagger
and fashion, yo.


America is great for coming up with new usages and phrases which we in
the UK condemn as "too American", and then a few decades later we start
to adopt as if we'd invented them :-)

However the one word that still grates on my ears, several decades after
I first heard it, is the business buzzword "leverage", as in "we will
grow (*) our business in order to leverage an increase in market
penetration". OK, I made that one up! I don't know whether it means
anything because I've never known *precisely* what "leverage" means. And
anyway, in the UK we pronounce the noun "leever" rather than "levver",
so it would be "levverage" :-)

The ultimate teeth-on-edge usage is when someone asks a waiter "can I
get a cup of coffee" - meaning "will *you* get *me* a cup of coffee".
"Can I get" suggests that I want to go to the machine and get myself a
cup, which is not what you are asking the waiter.

I would say the sentence should be "may I get a cup of coffee" if that
was the intent, as I know I can, but may I? That's a teeth-on-edge
thing for me, the can/may and their/there/they're issue. I stop or
I'll go on for pages. :-)


"Can I get a cup of coffee" - you're asking the server to make a medical
diagnosis as to whether you'd be physically able to do it. The literal
answer is probably yes, seeing as how you were able to push the door
open, walk in, make your way to a table and sit down. The server will
automatically translate the question into one that makes more sense.

"May I get a cup of coffee" - you're asking the server for permission to
get up and get yourself a cup of coffee. Likely, they'll mentally reject
that idea and simply offer to bring it, instead.

"Will you please bring..." and "I would like to have...", and "May I
have...", as examples, are probably closer to correct, but the wrong
versions are so widely used that few even notice anymore.

I'm not a language/grammar geek, so it's entirely possible that my usage
is wrong, as well. I went to Public School.

--

Char Jackson
  #41  
Old June 29th 18, 06:53 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
[]
I'm not a language/grammar geek, so it's entirely possible that my usage
is wrong, as well. I went to Public School.

Even there, you can't escape the "two nations divided by a common
language" matter!

What I think is called a public school, or the public school system, in
the USA, is called a state school, or other terms, in the UK.

In the UK, "public school" usually means the ones (mostly) attended by
the privileged - i. e. fee-paying. (The well-known ones like Eton and
Harrow, but really any fee-paying one.) I've never been sure why we call
them "public schools" - I think the argument might be that they are
_open_ to any member of the public who can afford the fees, though if
that _is_ the argument it's a weak one, since many have entrance exam.s.

Further: US usage, I understand, uses "school" to include both child and
adult education; in UK, with certain (mostly subject-specific)
exceptions, where you go to get your degree is "university", "school"
being for age 5 to about 16 or 18 only. (So "where did you go to school"
has a different meaning in the two countries: isn't often asked in UK.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Of course, this show - like every other cop show on earth - massively
overstates the prevalence of violent crime: last year, in the whole of the UK,
police fired their weapons just three times. And there were precisely zero
fatalities. - Vincent Graff in RT, 2014/11/8-14
  #42  
Old June 29th 18, 09:12 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 586
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

"Big Al" wrote in message
news
The ultimate teeth-on-edge usage is when someone asks a waiter "can I get
a cup of coffee" - meaning "will *you* get *me* a cup of coffee". "Can I
get" suggests that I want to go to the machine and get myself a cup,
which is not what you are asking the waiter.

I would say the sentence should be "may I get a cup of coffee" if that was
the intent, as I know I can, but may I? That's a teeth-on-edge thing for
me, the can/may and their/there/they're issue. I stop or I'll go on for
pages. :-)


Yes I was ignoring the dreaded can/may problem. I almost take that as given,
these days, along with the illogical "I could care less" instead of "I
couldn't care less" (the latter implying that I care so little that I could
not reduce my level of care to a lower value; the former means - well, not a
lot!

  #43  
Old June 29th 18, 09:26 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 586
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

"Apd" wrote in message news
"NY" wrote:
America is great for coming up with new usages and phrases which we in
the
UK condemn as "too American", and then a few decades later we start to
adopt
as if we'd invented them :-)


Or spelling which we (UK) think of as American but in many cases has
origins in English/Latin/French and where both forms were used (e.g.
by Shakespeare) before the UK and US standardised (standardized) on
their own particular preferences.


I'm fairly relaxed about UK versus US spelling. The U in colour, humour etc,
has no purpose and could be removed; likewise it is perverse that we reverse
the R and E in theatre. But since that's what British spelling rules say,
then I will fight to the death to spell the words that way :-)

Cheque/check is an interesting one. British spelling allows a clear written
distinction between the piece of paper which is an authorisation to pay
money, and the crosshatch pattern on clothing or the verification of the
state of something; American spelling doesn't. When corresponding with
Americans, it's easier to spelling it "check" to avoid any hassle with "what
does this word cheque mean?".

  #44  
Old June 29th 18, 01:19 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

"NY" wrote

| I'm fairly relaxed about UK versus US spelling. The U in colour, humour
etc,
| has no purpose and could be removed; likewise it is perverse that we
reverse
| the R and E in theatre. But since that's what British spelling rules say,
| then I will fight to the death to spell the words that way :-)
|

And don't forget aluminium. It's much more
fun than our aluminum. Aluminium feels like
a long, hilly sleigh ride, what?



  #45  
Old June 29th 18, 03:03 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default OT: Microsoft Rewards? (now OT: grammar!)

"Wolf K" wrote

| "Public school" in the USA and Canada usually means primary and usually
| also middle school (years K to 8). It's often is used in contrast to
| faith-based schools. The upper grades are "high school".
|

They're all known as public school, as far as I know.
And they contrast to private schools, which are commercial.
Taxes pay for public school. Tuition and private funding
pay for private schools. That could be a Catholic school,
but perhaps just as common are "academies" for the wealthy
and gifted. And probably increasingly common are evangelical
schools, with textbooks showing Moses riding a dinosaur.

| Grammar is taught in public school. High school English/Language
| curricula generally assume knowledge of that grammar. It's very badly
| taught, mixing grammar and usage indiscriminately, and using conflicting
| and sometimes incorrect linguistic concepts.

I don't think you can generalize accurately about
American public schools. Since they're mostly funded
by local property taxes, the quality of teaching varies
quite a bit. It also varies by culture. Not long ago,
basic writing and math were all anyone needed. Kids
took off from school to help with the harvest. Today,
many rural areas may avoid investment in public schools.
Many urban areas may not be able to afford it. But in
between, the property values in the suburbs are largely
assigned based on school quality. Parents want the best
schools they can afford. So one school has 35 kids in a
class, with few if any electives. Another school has
bottled water dispensers in the hallways, small classes,
top teachers, and an MRI in the science lab.

What I find more striking today is the poor quality
of college education. People are getting bachelors
degrees who are all but illiterate and can't think
analytically. At one time college was meant to teach
future leaders to think and to provide them with
well-rounded knowledge. Today it's a required step
to get a no-skills office job. The graduating student
may have gone to college mostly to avoid adulthood.
At best it provides them with a cultural language
and connections to reach a white collar lifestyle.

| It is IMO the
| main reason Americans tend to be more anxious about their public
| language, and often over-correct and use unnecessarily elevated
vocabulary.
|

I once read an interesting [British] book. I can't
remember the name of it now. It detailed the creation
of made-up words in the Colonies, where people were
intimidated by educated Brits arriving in the New World.
So they made up "highfalutin" words "out of whole
cloth", to sound important.

The same thing then repeated as people moved
west and rural settlers felt intimidated by Easterners.

That may partially account for the general American
trend toward valuing ignorance and even conflating
it with decency. A smart kid is a showoff. Giftedness
undermines democracy. Thus, we should all be trained
to equality in all things.

It points to the central American confusion. We
idealize equality while trying to escape it. We reject
class while pursuing it. In Britain, class is an accepted
part of the social order. In the US, we like to pretend
it doesn't exist. We'll talk about sexism, racism,
etc but it's very hard for people to recognize the
fundamental inequality of wealth.

More recently, though, I think the awareness of
language as a social and business tool has become
much more sophisticated than it used to be. People
often speak in a technical manner, often favoring Greek
and Latin roots over Germanic, because it seems
authoritative. (Handiwork becomes manual labor.
Boyfriend/girlfriend becomes significant other.)

I had a work estimate recently for a woman
who's a Shakespearean professor of English. She
said something on the phone that I can't quite recall
now, in reference to our trying to find a time to meet.
I think it was something like, "Let me know when
you're free. We'll get this coordinated." Breathtaking
artlessness from an English professor. And impersonal.
But it sounds official. (The estimate never happened,
though. She was an important person, always on the
go, and didn't even listen to her phone messages.
There was no way to "coordinate" with her!)

Another interesting language change:

I know very few people today who have a regional
accent. That's another thing that college now does.
Eliminate cultural flavor that might be assoicated with
ignorance, so that everyone sounds like they're from
Ohio, with the exception of whiny young celebrities
who employ a nearly constant vocal fry to sound
upper class. It's almost Orwellian. All quirks must be
erased in the successful person, so that they act
almost as an automaton.

So there are a lot of factors there in both the
breakdown of literacy and the rise of official-speak.

I just saw a video of Stephen Colbert interviewing
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who just won an upset
election in NYC. She's well spoken, seems both
intelligent and decent, yet her speech is peppered
with, "so I was like", "so he was like", "so I go",
"so he goes". She talks like a teenager.

So I'm like, way to not intimidate the electorate,
dude.


 




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