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  #1  
Old September 27th 04, 07:38 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I am
afraid to download it. So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is there
so many problems? It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to have to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?
Ads
  #2  
Old September 27th 04, 07:47 AM
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

Some programs have problems because they were poorly written taking
advantage in the vulnerabilities Windows plugged in SP-2.
Others simply need updates or adjustments.
Still others are abandoned by their manufacturers.
Check the manufacturer for hardware and software compatibility with
SP-2.
Preparation helps for a problem free installation as well.
The number of problems is few once preparations have been made.

http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/xpsp2.htm
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spackins.htm

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


wrote in message
...
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I am
afraid to download it. So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is there
so many problems? It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to have to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?



  #3  
Old September 27th 04, 07:57 AM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


wrote in message
...
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I am
afraid to download it.


They are mostly fairy tales. Do SP2.

So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is there
so many problems?


There are not very many proportionately. Most install and run it with no
problems.

It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to have to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?


Zealots posting a bunch of FUD. You must remember that NGs distill all the
folks having problems. All the folks having no problems don't come here.


  #4  
Old September 27th 04, 01:41 PM
Wislu Plethora
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


-----Original Message-----
Some programs have problems because they were poorly
written taking advantage in the vulnerabilities Windows
plugged in SP-2.

snip

Would you mind taking a moment to translate this into
English so we can understand it? Can you give an example
of a "poorly written" program? By "poorly written" do you
mean programs that were written for the platform as it
was originally designed by MS? Wasn't XP the "poorly
written" program?
  #5  
Old September 27th 04, 01:48 PM
Wislu Plethora
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


-----Original Message-----

wrote in message
...
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I am
afraid to download it.


They are mostly fairy tales. Do SP2.

So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is

there
so many problems?


There are not very many proportionately. Most install

and run it with no
problems.

It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to have

to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?


Zealots posting a bunch of FUD. You must remember that

NGs distill all the
folks having problems. All the folks having no problems

don't come here.


Are you saying that we can't project by looking at
complaints how many complaints there might be in the
general population? Are you saying that all people *with*
problems come here? It's more likely that most users with
problems don't even know that these groups exist. I just
read something in one of the PC magazines, a letter from
a guy who said he knew a woman who was on her fourth PC
in two years. She kept getting disk errors and would just
go out and buy a new PC. Turns out she had no idea that
when you delete a file it goes to the Recycle Bin, and
that the Recycle Bin must be periodically emptied. The sad
fact is that the people who need SP2 the most are also
the ones who are most likely to have trouble with it.


  #6  
Old September 27th 04, 03:24 PM
I like toys and cake
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


wrote in message
...
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I am
afraid to download it. So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is there
so many problems? It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to have to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?


I installed SP2 on three PC's all three have very different specs
(although they are all less than 2 years old and very well maintained)
I had no serious issues at all, all my software and hardware continued
to work, with the exception of a bluetooth adapter which I expected
would have conflicts with the new native bluetooth drivers in SP2 but
that was fairly easily resolved.

SP2 is not mandatory and if you have a hardware firewall or don't
connect your PC to the internet at all then it is not necessary but it
can be uninstalled, so give it a try.


  #7  
Old September 27th 04, 03:24 PM
I like toys and cake
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


wrote in message
...
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I am
afraid to download it. So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is there
so many problems? It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to have to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?


I installed SP2 on three PC's all three have very different specs
(although they are all less than 2 years old and very well maintained)
I had no serious issues at all, all my software and hardware continued
to work, with the exception of a bluetooth adapter which I expected
would have conflicts with the new native bluetooth drivers in SP2 but
that was fairly easily resolved.

SP2 is not mandatory and if you have a hardware firewall or don't
connect your PC to the internet at all then it is not necessary but it
can be uninstalled, so give it a try.


  #8  
Old September 27th 04, 03:48 PM
Peter R. Fletcher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

See my in-line comments.

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 05:48:48 -0700, "Wislu Plethora"
wrote:


-----Original Message-----

wrote in message
...
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I am
afraid to download it.


They are mostly fairy tales. Do SP2.

So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is

there
so many problems?


There are not very many proportionately. Most install

and run it with no
problems.

It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to have

to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?


Zealots posting a bunch of FUD. You must remember that

NGs distill all the
folks having problems. All the folks having no problems

don't come here.


Are you saying that we can't project by looking at
complaints how many complaints there might be in the
general population?


Whether or not Ron was saying that, he was probably implying it, and
the statement is certainly true. About the only thing you can say with
some degree of certainly if 200 people post messages describing
problems they have had with SP2 is that at least 200 people have had
problems with SP2! Microsoft publishes (astronomical) figures for the
number of people who have installed the upgrade, so we know _a_
denominator, but it is no more valid to assume that everyone who has
problems comes to this newsgroup than to assume that everyone (or even
everyone with access to the newsgroup) who has upgraded and hasn't
posted hasn't had a problem with the upgrade. My impression, based on
my personal experience and that of other computer professionals that I
know, is that the enormous majority of SP2 upgrades, on systems that
were stable and working properly before the upgrade (this is
important), go smoothly, but I certainly wouldn't claim to be able to
prove that.

Are you saying that all people *with*
problems come here? It's more likely that most users with
problems don't even know that these groups exist.


Again IMHO, people who don't know that these groups exist are likely
either not to be running XP or to have simple "appliance" systems, in
which the upgrade is actually more likely to go straightforwardly.

I just
read something in one of the PC magazines, a letter from
a guy who said he knew a woman who was on her fourth PC
in two years. She kept getting disk errors and would just
go out and buy a new PC. Turns out she had no idea that
when you delete a file it goes to the Recycle Bin, and
that the Recycle Bin must be periodically emptied.


That story bears all the marks of an urban myth! As a matter of fact,
of course, the Recycle Bin does _not_ have to be periodically emptied
- if you don't empty it "manually", it fills up a certain proportion
of the available disk space (I think that the default is 20%) and,
when a new deletion would cause it to exceed that percentage, the
oldest file(s) in the Bin is/are discarded to make room for the new
one.

The sad
fact is that the people who need SP2 the most are also
the ones who are most likely to have trouble with it.


As I have said, I don't think that this is necessarily so.

Please respond to the Newsgroup, so that others may benefit from the exchange.
Peter R. Fletcher
  #9  
Old September 27th 04, 03:48 PM
Peter R. Fletcher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

See my in-line comments.

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 05:48:48 -0700, "Wislu Plethora"
wrote:


-----Original Message-----

wrote in message
...
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I am
afraid to download it.


They are mostly fairy tales. Do SP2.

So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is

there
so many problems?


There are not very many proportionately. Most install

and run it with no
problems.

It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to have

to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?


Zealots posting a bunch of FUD. You must remember that

NGs distill all the
folks having problems. All the folks having no problems

don't come here.


Are you saying that we can't project by looking at
complaints how many complaints there might be in the
general population?


Whether or not Ron was saying that, he was probably implying it, and
the statement is certainly true. About the only thing you can say with
some degree of certainly if 200 people post messages describing
problems they have had with SP2 is that at least 200 people have had
problems with SP2! Microsoft publishes (astronomical) figures for the
number of people who have installed the upgrade, so we know _a_
denominator, but it is no more valid to assume that everyone who has
problems comes to this newsgroup than to assume that everyone (or even
everyone with access to the newsgroup) who has upgraded and hasn't
posted hasn't had a problem with the upgrade. My impression, based on
my personal experience and that of other computer professionals that I
know, is that the enormous majority of SP2 upgrades, on systems that
were stable and working properly before the upgrade (this is
important), go smoothly, but I certainly wouldn't claim to be able to
prove that.

Are you saying that all people *with*
problems come here? It's more likely that most users with
problems don't even know that these groups exist.


Again IMHO, people who don't know that these groups exist are likely
either not to be running XP or to have simple "appliance" systems, in
which the upgrade is actually more likely to go straightforwardly.

I just
read something in one of the PC magazines, a letter from
a guy who said he knew a woman who was on her fourth PC
in two years. She kept getting disk errors and would just
go out and buy a new PC. Turns out she had no idea that
when you delete a file it goes to the Recycle Bin, and
that the Recycle Bin must be periodically emptied.


That story bears all the marks of an urban myth! As a matter of fact,
of course, the Recycle Bin does _not_ have to be periodically emptied
- if you don't empty it "manually", it fills up a certain proportion
of the available disk space (I think that the default is 20%) and,
when a new deletion would cause it to exceed that percentage, the
oldest file(s) in the Bin is/are discarded to make room for the new
one.

The sad
fact is that the people who need SP2 the most are also
the ones who are most likely to have trouble with it.


As I have said, I don't think that this is necessarily so.

Please respond to the Newsgroup, so that others may benefit from the exchange.
Peter R. Fletcher
  #10  
Old September 27th 04, 04:19 PM
Wislu Plethora
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


-----Original Message-----
See my in-line comments.

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 05:48:48 -0700, "Wislu Plethora"
wrote:


-----Original Message-----

wrote in message
.. .
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I

am
afraid to download it.

They are mostly fairy tales. Do SP2.

So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is

there
so many problems?

There are not very many proportionately. Most install

and run it with no
problems.

It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to

have
to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?

Zealots posting a bunch of FUD. You must remember that

NGs distill all the
folks having problems. All the folks having no

problems
don't come here.


Are you saying that we can't project by looking at
complaints how many complaints there might be in the
general population?


Whether or not Ron was saying that, he was probably

implying it, and
the statement is certainly true. About the only thing you

can say with
some degree of certainly if 200 people post messages

describing
problems they have had with SP2 is that at least 200

people have had
problems with SP2! Microsoft publishes (astronomical)

figures for the
number of people who have installed the upgrade, so we

know _a_
denominator, but it is no more valid to assume that

everyone who has
problems comes to this newsgroup than to assume that

everyone (or even
everyone with access to the newsgroup) who has upgraded

and hasn't
posted hasn't had a problem with the upgrade. My

impression, based on
my personal experience and that of other computer

professionals that I
know, is that the enormous majority of SP2 upgrades, on

systems that
were stable and working properly before the upgrade (this

is
important), go smoothly, but I certainly wouldn't claim

to be able to
prove that.

Are you saying that all people *with*
problems come here? It's more likely that most users with
problems don't even know that these groups exist.


Again IMHO, people who don't know that these groups exist

are likely
either not to be running XP or to have simple "appliance"

systems, in
which the upgrade is actually more likely to go

straightforwardly.

I just
read something in one of the PC magazines, a letter from
a guy who said he knew a woman who was on her fourth PC
in two years. She kept getting disk errors and would just
go out and buy a new PC. Turns out she had no idea that
when you delete a file it goes to the Recycle Bin, and
that the Recycle Bin must be periodically emptied.


That story bears all the marks of an urban myth! As a

matter of fact,
of course, the Recycle Bin does _not_ have to be

periodically emptied
- if you don't empty it "manually", it fills up a certain

proportion
of the available disk space (I think that the default is

20%) and,
when a new deletion would cause it to exceed that

percentage, the
oldest file(s) in the Bin is/are discarded to make room

for the new
one.

The sad
fact is that the people who need SP2 the most are also
the ones who are most likely to have trouble with it.


As I have said, I don't think that this is necessarily so.

Please respond to the Newsgroup, so that others may

benefit from the exchange.
Peter R. Fletcher


I think maybe you have your head up your a$$, or you're so
high up in your ivory tower that you've completely lost
touch with reality. I know that the Recycle Bin doesn't
have to be emptied, and its size will take care of itself.
The Recycle Bin story was being used in the original as
an example of how clueless one particular user is (I should
have made that clear). A while back I did an informal and
thoroughly unscientific survey of ten or twelve people I
know who use XP on a daily basis, and *none* of them were
aware that there were MS-sponsored newsgroups. A few of
them weren't even aware of the existence of Usenet. At
work, I talked to a dozen or so colleagues--all of them
engineers, and all of them using XP at work, and most at
home and *none* of them were aware of the existence of
these groups.
It stands to reason (which is why you don't get it, I
guess) that the most ignorant users will have the most
problems with SP2, and the most ignorant users are also
the least likely ones to know about these groups.

  #11  
Old September 27th 04, 04:19 PM
Wislu Plethora
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


-----Original Message-----
See my in-line comments.

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 05:48:48 -0700, "Wislu Plethora"
wrote:


-----Original Message-----

wrote in message
.. .
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I

am
afraid to download it.

They are mostly fairy tales. Do SP2.

So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is

there
so many problems?

There are not very many proportionately. Most install

and run it with no
problems.

It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to

have
to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?

Zealots posting a bunch of FUD. You must remember that

NGs distill all the
folks having problems. All the folks having no

problems
don't come here.


Are you saying that we can't project by looking at
complaints how many complaints there might be in the
general population?


Whether or not Ron was saying that, he was probably

implying it, and
the statement is certainly true. About the only thing you

can say with
some degree of certainly if 200 people post messages

describing
problems they have had with SP2 is that at least 200

people have had
problems with SP2! Microsoft publishes (astronomical)

figures for the
number of people who have installed the upgrade, so we

know _a_
denominator, but it is no more valid to assume that

everyone who has
problems comes to this newsgroup than to assume that

everyone (or even
everyone with access to the newsgroup) who has upgraded

and hasn't
posted hasn't had a problem with the upgrade. My

impression, based on
my personal experience and that of other computer

professionals that I
know, is that the enormous majority of SP2 upgrades, on

systems that
were stable and working properly before the upgrade (this

is
important), go smoothly, but I certainly wouldn't claim

to be able to
prove that.

Are you saying that all people *with*
problems come here? It's more likely that most users with
problems don't even know that these groups exist.


Again IMHO, people who don't know that these groups exist

are likely
either not to be running XP or to have simple "appliance"

systems, in
which the upgrade is actually more likely to go

straightforwardly.

I just
read something in one of the PC magazines, a letter from
a guy who said he knew a woman who was on her fourth PC
in two years. She kept getting disk errors and would just
go out and buy a new PC. Turns out she had no idea that
when you delete a file it goes to the Recycle Bin, and
that the Recycle Bin must be periodically emptied.


That story bears all the marks of an urban myth! As a

matter of fact,
of course, the Recycle Bin does _not_ have to be

periodically emptied
- if you don't empty it "manually", it fills up a certain

proportion
of the available disk space (I think that the default is

20%) and,
when a new deletion would cause it to exceed that

percentage, the
oldest file(s) in the Bin is/are discarded to make room

for the new
one.

The sad
fact is that the people who need SP2 the most are also
the ones who are most likely to have trouble with it.


As I have said, I don't think that this is necessarily so.

Please respond to the Newsgroup, so that others may

benefit from the exchange.
Peter R. Fletcher


I think maybe you have your head up your a$$, or you're so
high up in your ivory tower that you've completely lost
touch with reality. I know that the Recycle Bin doesn't
have to be emptied, and its size will take care of itself.
The Recycle Bin story was being used in the original as
an example of how clueless one particular user is (I should
have made that clear). A while back I did an informal and
thoroughly unscientific survey of ten or twelve people I
know who use XP on a daily basis, and *none* of them were
aware that there were MS-sponsored newsgroups. A few of
them weren't even aware of the existence of Usenet. At
work, I talked to a dozen or so colleagues--all of them
engineers, and all of them using XP at work, and most at
home and *none* of them were aware of the existence of
these groups.
It stands to reason (which is why you don't get it, I
guess) that the most ignorant users will have the most
problems with SP2, and the most ignorant users are also
the least likely ones to know about these groups.

  #12  
Old September 27th 04, 11:56 PM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


"Wislu Plethora" wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----
Some programs have problems because they were poorly
written taking advantage in the vulnerabilities Windows
plugged in SP-2.

snip

Would you mind taking a moment to translate this into
English so we can understand it? Can you give an example
of a "poorly written" program? By "poorly written" do you
mean programs that were written for the platform as it
was originally designed by MS? Wasn't XP the "poorly
written" program?


Nope.


  #13  
Old September 27th 04, 11:57 PM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

SP2 works fine for the great majority of folks.

"Wislu Plethora" wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----

wrote in message
...
I have heard some real horror stories about SP2 so I am
afraid to download it.


They are mostly fairy tales. Do SP2.

So many people have problems with
some of there programs since installing SP2. why is

there
so many problems?


There are not very many proportionately. Most install

and run it with no
problems.

It seems like Microsoft wouldn't put
something out that was going to cause everyone to have

to
change alot on their computers. Whats the deal?


Zealots posting a bunch of FUD. You must remember that

NGs distill all the
folks having problems. All the folks having no problems

don't come here.


Are you saying that we can't project by looking at
complaints how many complaints there might be in the
general population? Are you saying that all people *with*
problems come here? It's more likely that most users with
problems don't even know that these groups exist. I just
read something in one of the PC magazines, a letter from
a guy who said he knew a woman who was on her fourth PC
in two years. She kept getting disk errors and would just
go out and buy a new PC. Turns out she had no idea that
when you delete a file it goes to the Recycle Bin, and
that the Recycle Bin must be periodically emptied. The sad
fact is that the people who need SP2 the most are also
the ones who are most likely to have trouble with it.




  #14  
Old September 28th 04, 01:11 PM
Wislu Plethora
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


-----Original Message-----
SP2 works fine for the great majority of folks.


What an idiotic statement. It's like telling a person
who's on fire that the vast majority of people don't
burn to death.
  #15  
Old September 28th 04, 01:29 PM
Wislu Plethota
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


-----Original Message-----

"Wislu Plethora"

wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----
Some programs have problems because they were poorly
written taking advantage in the vulnerabilities Windows
plugged in SP-2.

snip

Would you mind taking a moment to translate this into
English so we can understand it? Can you give an example
of a "poorly written" program? By "poorly written" do

you
mean programs that were written for the platform as it
was originally designed by MS? Wasn't XP the "poorly
written" program?


Nope.



You don't have a clue, do you? Do you understand the
implications of what Jupiter is saying? He says that many
SP2 problems are the result of "poorly written" third-
party programs that were "written [to take]advantage [of]
the vulnerabilities" in XP that were "plugged" by SP2.
So do I expect that a monstrously complex piece of work
like XP should be bug-free? Certainly not. But remember-
almost all of the "vulnerabilities" SP2 is intended to
patch were discovered by sources outside of Microsoft, and
Microsoft did nothing about them until those warnings came
and not before there was time for miscreants to exploit
them. But what Jupiter is saying--and he's not smart
enough to realize what an indictment of MS it is--is that
many of those "vulnerabilities" were well known in the
development community to the extent that programmers were
able to take advantage of them in writing their programs.
But if they were common knowledge among developers, why
didn't Microsoft know about them, and plug them *before*
they caused problems?

The facts are clear: XP was full of holes when first
shipped. Software developers designed programs to run on
the platform as *it* was designed. This is nothing more
or less than prudent development practice, so Jupiter is
hitting below the belt when he refers to "poorly written"
programs being a cause of SP2 problems. If what Jupiter
says is true, then there should be no need for SP2 at
this point, as Microsoft, being aware that holes existed,
could have done the patching *before* the holes were
exploited. The alternative is that Jupiter has no idea
wtf he's talking about. You decide.

 




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