Two questions about reloading Windows & bringing programs over

A friend called me with Windows 7 OS problems, so I had him buy
a new SSD disk and put it in his Dell.

He's gonna install the OS onto the new disk, and then use the
original disk as the D drive to move his data and programs over
to the new C drive.

Two basic questions:
a) Does formatting mean anything to an SSD disk?
b) Is there an easy way to bring his programs over

"Pat O'Donahue" wrote in message
...

He's gonna install the OS onto the new disk, and then use the
original disk as the D drive to move his data and programs over
to the new C drive.

Two basic questions:
a) Does formatting mean anything to an SSD disk?
b) Is there an easy way to bring his programs over

Do the vendors of SSDs really refuse to answer these questions?
Vendors of HDDs provide both such information and free utilities
to clone drives and instal OSs.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:07:47 +0000, Pat O'Donahue wrote:

A friend called me with Windows 7 OS problems, so I had him buy
a new SSD disk and put it in his Dell.

He's gonna install the OS onto the new disk, and then use the
original disk as the D drive to move his data and programs over
to the new C drive.

Two basic questions:
a) Does formatting mean anything to an SSD disk?

Yes, it is a disk and must be formatted like any
other disk.

b) Is there an easy way to bring his programs over

AFAIK there is no way to copy programs from one drive
to another because most program's files are spread
around in different folders. Plus, the program may
have needed registry entries.

The programs will have to be reinstalled. If one or
more of the programs happened to be one of the rare
cases where the program is completely contained in a
single folder and does not use the registry then it
could be copied.

--
Wildman GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!

On Fri, 4 Jul 2014 16:21:25 -0400, Don Phillipson wrote:

Do the vendors of SSDs really refuse to answer these questions?
Vendors of HDDs provide both such information and free utilities
to clone drives and instal OSs.

So what you're saying is you don't know the answer...

--
s|b

On Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:07:47 +0000 (UTC), Pat O'Donahue wrote:

b) Is there an easy way to bring his programs over

Maybe not the programs, but you can check

C:\Users\[user]\AppData\Roaming

For instance, you can copy profile folders for Firefox and Thunderbird.
Or settings you've made for certain programs.

--
s|b

Pat O'Donahue wrote:
A friend called me with Windows 7 OS problems, so I had him buy
a new SSD disk and put it in his Dell.

He's gonna install the OS onto the new disk, and then use the
original disk as the D drive to move his data and programs over
to the new C drive.

Two basic questions:
a) Does formatting mean anything to an SSD disk?
b) Is there an easy way to bring his programs over

Formatting used to have a meaning, but it doesn't any more.

You can:

1) Create and remove partitions, with a minimum of wear on an SSD
(or a hard drive for that matter). Creating a partition requires
updating a partition table (1 sector), placing a file system header on
the storage device (64 sector), and perhaps adding a master file
table or equivalent (can be a bit bigger than the others).

None of that absolutely requires visiting every sector on the device.
Not even close. The operation can happen fairly quickly if you
select the "Quick" option when partitioning in Disk Management
(Start : Run : diskmgmt.msc) .

2) If you have sensitive personal information on a storage device,
there are ways to erase that information. One way is the Secure Erase
command of the ATA/ATAPI command set. Another is to use one of many
utilities that writes at least once, to every sector. For modern
storage devices, you don't need to write them 35 times. I don't
mind doing this to hard drives - but an SSD drive only has 3000
full drive writes available, so I would carefully consider whether
that is necessary or not.

Notice I've completely avoided the word "format" in that description.

*******

At one time, back when I was working on storage devices, they were
"soft sectored". There was an index mark, and your controller could
sync on index, and write a pattern of sector headers and data sectors.
There were "splices" with strong synchronization patterns, between
each section in this diagram.

Index header data header data... Index

That is the classical "format" operation.

SSD drives don't have that form of storage. They're not magnetic, they
have a physical reality, they're arranged as a large array of storage
bits, with a mostly random access structure. You never get to
"redefine" the storage structure in there.

Modern hard drives, there is a sync structure which is laid down at
the factory. It is on each surface on each platter. That is called
embedded servo. You no longer "format" the entire surface. The
most you can do to a modern drive, is "write" to each thing labeled
"data" in the above track description. So it would be inappropriate
to use the word "format" to describe that process. To erase the
contents of a hard drive, just write zeros to each data sector.

*******

To transfer a hard drive to an SSD, you can "clone" the drive.
Strictly speaking a "clone" is the most exact copy you can make.
"Compromise clones" take the form of transferring a 1TB hard
drive to a 256GB SSD, and resizing the largest partition, so
the thing will fit. Such a thing is an "information clone", in
that the same intelligence is in the copy, but strictly speaking
one of the partitions, the size changed, so it is not an exact
copy. And it is also possible that some disk identifiers got changed
as well, in the interest of giving every device some unique identifiers.

Look to the SSD maker for "clone" software. It could be
on their download page on the web site.

You can resize the partitions on the hard drive first, to
encourage an exact copy.

But a safer option, is to leave the hard drive as is, and
find some good cloning software, that makes the new drive
at least "consistent", so that it can boot OK.

Since your hard drive was prepared by Windows 7, it has megabyte
alignment, and the cloning to the SSD should also have megabyte
alignment. Such an alignment aligns things with the flash pages
of the SSD, and reduces unnecessary writes or data movements
after the fact. So you're already covered there.

*******

My next steps would be:

1) Go to SSD maker site, look for free clone or copy software.

2) If not available, use Macrium Reflect Free.

(Green button, lower left corner)
http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

Reflect Free can clone. If the last partition on the drive,
as seen in Disk Management, is the big one, Macrium will
also automatically re-size that last partition to fit.

Otherwise, if no software is helping you do this job the
way that you want, you may need partition management software,
of which there are free ones as well. While Windows 7 can
shrink a partition to 50% of its original size, that is
frequently not sufficient when moving a hard drive to an SSD.

Personally, I would prefer not to make changes to the source
drive. If I was doing maintenance on someone else's computer,
I would make a backup copy of it first. With a backup
in hand, I could then mess around with the source disk
as I saw fit. The thing is, some of the free partition
managers are not bug free, and even something as trivial
as moving a FAT32 has caused corruption with them. If you
must modify the source disk, making a backup first means
not having to say you were sorry, to a friend.

The sad thing about this list, is it doesn't even list all
the free ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...oning_software

This is an example of a free one. Note that when a download
comes from CNET, it can have toolbars. Not every download
has them, but I have to waste considerable time checking
them with my toolset, before I even consider double-clicking
on them. Just be careful. I hate having CNET as the only
source of a file, due to "toolbar suckage" - it means
me having to write a lecture on how to avoid toolbars, and
this post is long enough.

http://www.easeus.com/partition-manager/epm-free.html

HTH,
Paul

In article , lid says...

A friend called me with Windows 7 OS problems, so I had him buy
a new SSD disk and put it in his Dell.

He's gonna install the OS onto the new disk, and then use the
original disk as the D drive to move his data and programs over
to the new C drive.

Two basic questions:
a) Does formatting mean anything to an SSD disk?
b) Is there an easy way to bring his programs over

Just did this to wife's pc. I first had to offload enough on existing
disk so contents would fit on the new smaller ssd. It was a Kingston
128Gb SSD model that came with a copy of Acronis TrueImage. The clone
option worked as expected and pc rebooted using new ssd once swapped in
for existing hard disk. Once this was done anotrher reboot as putting in
old drive as second hard disk. Reboot went smoothly and after some
testing all was in order reformatted the old drive and restored
previously save data to it.

Week later, redid same pc swapping out the Kingston 128Gb for a Samsung
256Gb ssd instead. Samsung provided some software that required a
Windows install rather than a boot disk. I didn't like the idea so used
the prior Acronis which had worked so well. It did ... again.

The original ssd goes back for refund tomorrow. Store shoudln't mind as
larger ssd was bought there also.

I should note, calling them manuals what you find in box is very
charitable. Even reading the pdf file on the disk would leave
inexperienced people well over their heads.

Wildman said on 7/4/2014 4:22 PM:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:07:47 +0000, Pat O'Donahue wrote:

A friend called me with Windows 7 OS problems, so I had him buy
a new SSD disk and put it in his Dell.

He's gonna install the OS onto the new disk, and then use the
original disk as the D drive to move his data and programs over
to the new C drive.

Two basic questions:
a) Does formatting mean anything to an SSD disk?

Yes, it is a disk and must be formatted like any
other disk.

b) Is there an easy way to bring his programs over

AFAIK there is no way to copy programs from one drive
to another because most program's files are spread
around in different folders. Plus, the program may
have needed registry entries.

The programs will have to be reinstalled. If one or
more of the programs happened to be one of the rare
cases where the program is completely contained in a
single folder and does not use the registry then it
could be copied.

+1
You can find a lot of .ini files for some programs and copy them. Over
the years I've got a long laundry list of all the little data files for
programs I use.
Crap Cleaner has an ini (if you set it)
Pidgin IM has data in home directory.
Thunderbird
Firefox
Google Chrome
Filezilla
Notepad++
Themes
Sticky notes for windows 8
etc etc.

Just don't wholesale copy your home directory or the entire AppData
folder (hidden) under your home. You'll have more issues after that
then you had before.

"Don Phillipson" wrote:
"Pat O'Donahue" wrote in message
...

He's gonna install the OS onto the new disk, and then use the
original disk as the D drive to move his data and programs over
to the new C drive.

Two basic questions:
a) Does formatting mean anything to an SSD disk?
b) Is there an easy way to bring his programs over

Do the vendors of SSDs really refuse to answer these questions?
Vendors of HDDs provide both such information and free utilities
to clone drives and instal OSs.

I followed Samsung's directions without experiencing any problems. Win 7
Desktop with 1 TB Hdd with two partitions C/D. C had under 350 GB. SSD 500
GB attached with external USB and Samsung's software made SSD the new C and
the old C into F. Physical install of SSD and everything worked on boot.

--
Zaidy036

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:22:00 GMT "Wildman" wrote in
article

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:07:47 +0000, Pat O'Donahue wrote:



The programs will have to be reinstalled. If one or
more of the programs happened to be one of the rare
cases where the program is completely contained in a
single folder and does not use the registry then it
could be copied.

The don't need to be reinstalled if you create a backup image of the old
drive and restore it to the new one. If upgrading the operating system,
this won't work as the responder said.

Jason wrote, On 7/5/2014 12:32 PM:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:22:00 GMT "Wildman" wrote in
article

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:07:47 +0000, Pat O'Donahue wrote:



The programs will have to be reinstalled. If one or
more of the programs happened to be one of the rare
cases where the program is completely contained in a
single folder and does not use the registry then it
could be copied.

The don't need to be reinstalled if you create a backup image of the old
drive and restore it to the new one. If upgrading the operating system,
this won't work as the responder said.


If the op's friend is going to do what the op said (install Windows on
the new disk - the SSD) then it would seem that creating an image is not
part of that plan and consistent with the subject (Reloading Windows..)

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Sat, 05 Jul 2014 14:19:36 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Jason wrote, On 7/5/2014 12:32 PM:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:22:00 GMT "Wildman" wrote in
article

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:07:47 +0000, Pat O'Donahue wrote:



The programs will have to be reinstalled. If one or
more of the programs happened to be one of the rare
cases where the program is completely contained in a
single folder and does not use the registry then it
could be copied.

The don't need to be reinstalled if you create a backup image of the old
drive and restore it to the new one. If upgrading the operating system,
this won't work as the responder said.


If the op's friend is going to do what the op said (install Windows on
the new disk - the SSD) then it would seem that creating an image is not
part of that plan and consistent with the subject (Reloading Windows..)

But nonetheless a prudent idea.

Besides that, although it's been a while, ISTR that when I install a new
OS or get a new computer, it's nice to have the old drive around as a
reference.

That way I can easily see what programs used to be installed, and so I
can reinstall some, and if I'm being sensible, *not* reinstall (many)
others.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Gene E. Bloch wrote, On 7/5/2014 3:44 PM:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2014 14:19:36 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Jason wrote, On 7/5/2014 12:32 PM:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:22:00 GMT "Wildman" wrote in
article

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:07:47 +0000, Pat O'Donahue wrote:



The programs will have to be reinstalled. If one or
more of the programs happened to be one of the rare
cases where the program is completely contained in a
single folder and does not use the registry then it
could be copied.

The don't need to be reinstalled if you create a backup image of the old
drive and restore it to the new one. If upgrading the operating system,
this won't work as the responder said.


If the op's friend is going to do what the op said (install Windows on
the new disk - the SSD) then it would seem that creating an image is not
part of that plan and consistent with the subject (Reloading Windows..)

But nonetheless a prudent idea.

Besides that, although it's been a while, ISTR that when I install a new
OS or get a new computer, it's nice to have the old drive around as a
reference.

That way I can easily see what programs used to be installed, and so I
can reinstall some, and if I'm being sensible, *not* reinstall (many)
others.



I agree, imaging (saved to external media) imo is a good option for the
op's friend even when reloading an os clean is the plan.

We all need to declutter as time goes by. Hopefully we'll be able to
remember to do so (as time goes by).

This newsgroup could use some decluttering too. The OT garbage of late
is a perfect example of why usenet will continually lose readers.



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Sat, 05 Jul 2014 14:29:48 -0700, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

On Sat, 05 Jul 2014 17:16:16 -0400, ". . .winston" wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote, On 7/5/2014 3:44 PM:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2014 14:19:36 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Jason wrote, On 7/5/2014 12:32 PM:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:22:00 GMT "Wildman" wrote in
article

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:07:47 +0000, Pat O'Donahue wrote:



The programs will have to be reinstalled. If one or
more of the programs happened to be one of the rare
cases where the program is completely contained in a
single folder and does not use the registry then it
could be copied.

The don't need to be reinstalled if you create a backup image of the old
drive and restore it to the new one. If upgrading the operating system,
this won't work as the responder said.


If the op's friend is going to do what the op said (install Windows on
the new disk - the SSD) then it would seem that creating an image is not
part of that plan and consistent with the subject (Reloading Windows..)

But nonetheless a prudent idea.

Besides that, although it's been a while, ISTR that when I install a new
OS or get a new computer, it's nice to have the old drive around as a
reference.

That way I can easily see what programs used to be installed, and so I
can reinstall some, and if I'm being sensible, *not* reinstall (many)
others.



I agree, imaging (saved to external media) imo is a good option for the
op's friend even when reloading an os clean is the plan.

We all need to declutter as time goes by. Hopefully we'll be able to
remember to do so (as time goes by).

This newsgroup could use some decluttering too. The OT garbage of late
is a perfect example of why usenet will continually lose readers.

But you Winston participate in the OT discussions. I suppose your contributions
are so worthy of note they do not qualify as clutter?

Can you actually do that with a straight face? Astonishing...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Charles Lindbergh wrote, On 7/5/2014 5:29 PM:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2014 17:16:16 -0400, ". . .winston" wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote, On 7/5/2014 3:44 PM:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2014 14:19:36 -0400, . . .winston wrote:

Jason wrote, On 7/5/2014 12:32 PM:
On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:22:00 GMT "Wildman" wrote in
article

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:07:47 +0000, Pat O'Donahue wrote:



The programs will have to be reinstalled. If one or
more of the programs happened to be one of the rare
cases where the program is completely contained in a
single folder and does not use the registry then it
could be copied.

The don't need to be reinstalled if you create a backup image of the old
drive and restore it to the new one. If upgrading the operating system,
this won't work as the responder said.


If the op's friend is going to do what the op said (install Windows on
the new disk - the SSD) then it would seem that creating an image is not
part of that plan and consistent with the subject (Reloading Windows..)

But nonetheless a prudent idea.

Besides that, although it's been a while, ISTR that when I install a new
OS or get a new computer, it's nice to have the old drive around as a
reference.

That way I can easily see what programs used to be installed, and so I
can reinstall some, and if I'm being sensible, *not* reinstall (many)
others.



I agree, imaging (saved to external media) imo is a good option for the
op's friend even when reloading an os clean is the plan.

We all need to declutter as time goes by. Hopefully we'll be able to
remember to do so (as time goes by).

This newsgroup could use some decluttering too. The OT garbage of late
is a perfect example of why usenet will continually lose readers.

But you Winston participate in the OT discussions. I suppose your contributions
are so worthy of note they do not qualify as clutter?


I'll make an exception this time and recommend others follow the same
approach.

It's easy to declutter this forum. Just don't respond to you.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps