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Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?



 
 
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  #31  
Old May 10th 13, 01:48 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

On 5/10/2013 00:19, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 09 May 2013 22:05:10 +0800, xfile wrote:

Fair enough, why abandon a new idea simply because some people
have problems coping with it. Change happens - get over it.


Because the new idea produces no tangible benefits and only
idiots will accept changes for the sake of changes.


So, as the MSFT designers are certainly not idiots, did it not cross
your mind that there might be good reasons for the change? Of course
not, you would rather just come out with these clueless remarks. No
you are too frightened of change to give a new idea a fair trial.


So, as the MSFT designers are certainly not idiots[...]


Why? You don't see CEOs get fired for stupidity? No, you don't. Anyone
wears a shiny badge must be Einstein, you would think.

Also pay attention to what I said: only idiots will accept changes for
the sake of changes.

I didn't say MS are idiots; it's those mindless followers are idiots.

Microsoft may have their good reasons for coming up another inferior
product like this, i.e. because their laziness and incompetence to
develop two separate products for two distinctive different market
segments (consumer and business), and they also miscalculated, again,
their position and thought they could force or cheat professionals to
buy in their incompetence.

It's your kind who can't tell the difference are idiots. Your kind also
encourage and help them to come up inferior products again and again.

And I bet you never worked in any serious business, because otherwise,
you would have known that professionals embrace and engage to
"productive" changes on a daily basis. It's also why professionals are
trained to quickly identify if changes are based on a childish thought
or are for any real improvements.

Like Vista, Microsoft at least have the courage to admit its own
failure. So get over it! It's over!!








Ads
  #32  
Old May 10th 13, 01:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

On 5/10/2013 02:12, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 09 May 2013 22:07:49 +0800, xfile wrote:

On 5/9/2013 15:02, ...winston wrote:
Hearing it from the horse's mouth might be better than interpreting what
someone thought the horse said.

Tami Reller (CFO-Microsoft and Windows)
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/06/windows-8-at-6-months-q-amp-a-with-tami-reller.aspx



Julie Larsen-Green (Corporate VP, Chief Engineer Windows Client – all
software and hardware)
http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/07/julie-larson-green-at-the-wired-business-conference.aspx



Julie’s May 7, 2013 Interview (Video @ Wired Business Conference 2013)
http://fora.tv/2013/05/07/Windows_VP_Julie_Larson-Green_Starting_Over_with_Windows


Of importance:
- at this time any illusion to the return of the Start Button (the Orb)
does not mean the Start Menu (***pay close attention around 17:20 in the
video*** g)

- Julie previously was in charge of Office (aka the person responsible
for the ‘Ribbon’ approach)

- any ‘fixes’ for a later *8* (as shipped) include all fixes already
deployed via Windows Update (program and security) and for apps via the
Windows Store. Updates for the apps via the Store include both Program
(Fixes, Features, Versions) and Security Updates.

Never lose sight that no matter the o/s.....mobility is the primary
market focus (i.e. in MSFT case - all devices capable of currently
running Windows 8 --while desktop pcs are part of the focus but less
significant than in the past)

All your information are exclusively from --- Microsoft?

How sad!!!


Maybe not so much sad as giving you (or at least thoughtful people) a
chance to see what Microsoft people are thinking.

Note the first line in ...winston's post:
"Hearing it from the horse's mouth might be better than interpreting
what someone thought the horse said."


Maybe not so much sad as giving you (or at least thoughtful people) a
chance to see what Microsoft people are thinking.


Thanks but what they think is none of my concern particularly it's
solely for their own self-interests.


  #33  
Old May 10th 13, 03:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,502
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

On 5/9/13 5:34 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:

Well, I'll be... I didn't know you could have multiple taskbars. :-)
Know of a good web tutorial somewhere about this?


I'm sure there must be but if Google doesn't turn one up my ancient
"dadiOH's Dandies" has a section in it titled "Taskbars & Toolbars" that
explains it more fully. You can get it at..
http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
It is an old fashioned Help file so has to be downloaded.

Come to think of it, it is also available at a web site (not mine) in
HTML...
http://www.shareup.com/dadioh/taskbars-toolbars.html


Ah Ha! Now I've got it! You've added toolbars, not additional
taskbars. grin From the way you worded it, I got the impression you
could add additional system type taskbars.

In reality, you've added additional toolbars with "sub-toolbars" in each
one, correct?

I've seen the Toolbars option before in Windows, just never investigated
it. But I will now, as I look for more efficient ways for me to use any
computer.

I just did a quick check in Win 8, and even MS has used the words
interchangeably, it seems. The help file starts out about adding new
toolbars, then starts calling them taskbars. Typically MS, IMO. :-(


______________

I wonder if any of the replacement utilities for Win8 to add the Start
Menu and other such things add the missing features back...


Yes, to some extent. I used Classic Shell
http://www.classicshell.net/


As I mentioned earlier, I have Classic Shell installed on a Win 7
netbook, but not sure I want that program on my desktop installations.

______________

Is this what you are looking for? The auto-login feature? I just
tried it in my Win 8 VM and it worked.


Thanks but I have NP logging in automatically. What bugs me is the (in my
case) unnecessary duplication of folders for each user (even if it is only
one).


NP? Drawing a blank here for that acronym. LOL

Are you talking about the duplication of folders for each user under
Documents and Settings?


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 20.0
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2
  #34  
Old May 10th 13, 04:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,502
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

On 5/10/13 6:47 AM, xfile wrote:
On 5/10/2013 03:17, ...winston wrote:

"xfile" wrote in message ...

On 5/9/2013 15:02, ...winston wrote:
Hearing it from the horse's mouth might be better than interpreting
what someone thought the horse said.

Julie’s May 7, 2013 Interview (Video @ Wired Business Conference 2013)
http://fora.tv/2013/05/07/Windows_VP_Julie_Larson-Green_Starting_Over_with_Windows


snip

tried to mix the two distinctive segments
together with one half-baked product.


IMO, Apple is doing a better job of integrating the distinctive market
segments. They have two OS's designed, one for each segment, but are
working to give the user better integration.

Both OS's can be made to appear the same, using Launchpad on the
desktop, and XXXXXX on the iOS device. I don't own any iOS devices, so
don't know what it's called. Could be Launchpad there too! LOL

But, you aren't forced into it. That, to me, is the key.

snip

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 20.0
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2
  #35  
Old May 10th 13, 04:37 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bucky Breeder[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 506
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

....winston posted this via
:


"Bucky Breeder" wrote in message...

'Mr. Ed' reruns are not always accurate these days.

But "history repeats itself" is a hard adage to ignore.
On the other hand, if someone had a psychic horse who could
channel Melinda Gates, they might get some inside trader tips
if Bill Gates talks in his sleep... Unless he talks in Java,
then of course, you'd need a wireless file conversion app for
your X-box. My FordSync is powered by Microsoft, and even it
cannot pair with a horse unless it's a Trojan Horse, and then
people had better listen up to what the horse is talking about
because according to the Bible, End Times will have 4 horses
and these horses are not messing around.


Cute.

No matter the era of the past....today, most nntp people recognize a
distinct scent emanating from the horse's other end. g


Hopefully so. {o;

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and noooooo....
that is NOT a Tomahawk armed Predator drone in my pocket;
but, I'm not particularly "happy" to see you either.
  #36  
Old May 11th 13, 01:12 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
dadiOH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,020
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/9/13 5:34 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:

Well, I'll be... I didn't know you could have multiple taskbars. :-)
Know of a good web tutorial somewhere about this?


I'm sure there must be but if Google doesn't turn one up my ancient
"dadiOH's Dandies" has a section in it titled "Taskbars & Toolbars"
that explains it more fully. You can get it at..
http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
It is an old fashioned Help file so has to be downloaded.

Come to think of it, it is also available at a web site (not mine) in
HTML...
http://www.shareup.com/dadioh/taskbars-toolbars.html


Ah Ha! Now I've got it! You've added toolbars, not additional
taskbars. grin From the way you worded it, I got the impression
you could add additional system type taskbars.

In reality, you've added additional toolbars with "sub-toolbars" in
each one, correct?


To me, a taskbar is something to which one may add toolbars.
___________

Is this what you are looking for? The auto-login feature? I just
tried it in my Win 8 VM and it worked.


Thanks but I have NP logging in automatically. What bugs me is the
(in my case) unnecessary duplication of folders for each user (even
if it is only one).


NP? Drawing a blank here for that acronym. LOL


NP = no problem.
______________

Are you talking about the duplication of folders for each user under
Documents and Settings?


Yep.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net


  #37  
Old May 11th 13, 02:12 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

On 5/10/2013 23:02, Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/10/13 6:47 AM, xfile wrote:
On 5/10/2013 03:17, ...winston wrote:

"xfile" wrote in message ...

On 5/9/2013 15:02, ...winston wrote:
Hearing it from the horse's mouth might be better than interpreting
what someone thought the horse said.

Julie’s May 7, 2013 Interview (Video @ Wired Business Conference 2013)
http://fora.tv/2013/05/07/Windows_VP_Julie_Larson-Green_Starting_Over_with_Windows


snip

tried to mix the two distinctive segments
together with one half-baked product.


IMO, Apple is doing a better job of integrating the distinctive market
segments. They have two OS's designed, one for each segment, but are
working to give the user better integration.

Both OS's can be made to appear the same, using Launchpad on the
desktop, and XXXXXX on the iOS device. I don't own any iOS devices, so
don't know what it's called. Could be Launchpad there too! LOL

But, you aren't forced into it. That, to me, is the key.

snip


On the other hand, Apple is extremely careful on moving into the
business sector. They would rather be slow than screwing up.

Both Android and Kindle OS are Linux based but heavily modified to meet
each segment's unique needs.

Google and Amazon, at least, have the common sense of knowing that if
they had been lazy and simply used Linux, it would be busted.

You wonder, sometimes, why an experienced adult would made a major
mistake that a 5-year old knows not to.







  #38  
Old May 11th 13, 02:36 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,502
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

On 5/10/13 6:12 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/9/13 5:34 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:

Well, I'll be... I didn't know you could have multiple taskbars. :-)
Know of a good web tutorial somewhere about this?

I'm sure there must be but if Google doesn't turn one up my ancient
"dadiOH's Dandies" has a section in it titled "Taskbars & Toolbars"
that explains it more fully. You can get it at..
http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
It is an old fashioned Help file so has to be downloaded.

Come to think of it, it is also available at a web site (not mine) in
HTML...
http://www.shareup.com/dadioh/taskbars-toolbars.html


Ah Ha! Now I've got it! You've added toolbars, not additional
taskbars. grin From the way you worded it, I got the impression
you could add additional system type taskbars.

In reality, you've added additional toolbars with "sub-toolbars" in
each one, correct?


To me, a taskbar is something to which one may add toolbars.


Tow-may-tow, tow-mah-toh, I've no problem with that now that I see what
you are doing. :-)

I just tried dragging the Computer icon to a blank side of the desktop,
no taskbar/toolbar. But, it sounds like if a person used your
instructions for populating a folder for a taskbar in Win 8, then used
the add toolbar option from the taskbar, you'd have something similar,
anyway.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything installed in my Win 8 VM to try it out.

Your use of shortcuts is not all that different from my workaround for
Libraries to get the Libraries to do what I want them to do.

I thought MS did a decent job with the Help and Support files in Win 7.
But it looks like they really missed the boat in Win 8. I typed in
both taskbar and toolbar, got virtually nothing from Help and Support.
And I see we've added the ribbon to the Explorer windows. IMO, what a
total useless waste of space is the ribbon.

___________

Is this what you are looking for? The auto-login feature? I just
tried it in my Win 8 VM and it worked.

Thanks but I have NP logging in automatically. What bugs me is the
(in my case) unnecessary duplication of folders for each user (even
if it is only one).


NP? Drawing a blank here for that acronym. LOL


NP = no problem.


Now, why didn't I think of that! LOL

______________

Are you talking about the duplication of folders for each user under
Documents and Settings?


Yep.


I felt exactly the same way until I finally took the time to learn the
security reasons behind multiple users, then it made perfect sense.

That being said, I read somewhere there is a way to make any and all
users access the same folders in Win 7. 3rd party, registry hack,
something, I just don't remember how it was done. Maybe the same
methods would work in Win 8. It's not something that interests me
personally, so I didn't truly commit it to memory.

You know, it just occurred to me, you might pull this off by redirecting
all the appropriate files for each user to the same file location
somewhere else. I redirect those documents to a different hard drive or
partition as SOP so the user data is not on the system/boot partition.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 20.0
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2
  #39  
Old May 11th 13, 11:12 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
...winston[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,861
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

"xfile" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote....
As previously noted...a Start Button does not necessarily indicate a
Win7 type Start Menu.



Whether it's Win7 type is irrelevant and it's not the point, and the
main point is that the primary mission of an operating system in *the
business sector* is to serve as a stable "platform" for applications run
on it, and within the primary mission, the UI design is to minimize, if
not totally eliminate, user confusion and learning curve so they could
quickly access to data and applications to complete their tasks.

If the primary mission is failed, everything else is just BS.

Win7 style or not, it's their job to accomplish the above mission to get
paid (by licensing).

In the consumer sector, there is no hard rules because everything can be
subjective and base on personal preferences.

Microsoft, as an OEM software development company, miscalculated and
forgot their role, again, and tried to mix the two distinctive segments
together with one half-baked product.

They are the last one qualified to tell business how and if they need to
deploy resources for any stupid changes not to mention that it's for
their own interests.

In the business sector, Microsoft is just an OEM company and they are OK
if they just follow orders to do their work.


You're preaching to the choir.
I'm just providing the information by linking to the source (i.e MSFT and those in control of what will happen)...everything else
is just hypothesis or an expectation based on a form of entitlement.

Here's another article from the source g May 10th, 2013.

The Official Microsoft Blog
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2013/05/10/staying-centered.aspx

Regarding getting 'paid' - after 100 million copies (all possible channels - retail, licensing, upgrades, OEM pcs, System Builder
versions) sold
- even if just using the upgrade limited offer pricing of $40 ea. they got paid about 4 billion dollars!

Afaics....nntp forums are fine for discussing issues...but expressing an opinion here serves no purpose whatsoever to MSFT and
hasn't for at least 4 years.

Additionally, similar distress was expressed about the 'Ribbon' deployment in Office and other products (Windows Essentials and
earlier versions)
***It's still here***
.....and the person responsible for the Ribbon in Office is now the person responsible for Windows! (link/video of her comments on
Windows 8 past and future provided earlier)



--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps


  #40  
Old May 11th 13, 01:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

On 5/11/2013 18:12, ...winston wrote:
"xfile" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote....
As previously noted...a Start Button does not necessarily indicate a
Win7 type Start Menu.



Whether it's Win7 type is irrelevant and it's not the point, and the
main point is that the primary mission of an operating system in *the
business sector* is to serve as a stable "platform" for applications run
on it, and within the primary mission, the UI design is to minimize, if
not totally eliminate, user confusion and learning curve so they could
quickly access to data and applications to complete their tasks.

If the primary mission is failed, everything else is just BS.

Win7 style or not, it's their job to accomplish the above mission to get
paid (by licensing).

In the consumer sector, there is no hard rules because everything can be
subjective and base on personal preferences.

Microsoft, as an OEM software development company, miscalculated and
forgot their role, again, and tried to mix the two distinctive segments
together with one half-baked product.

They are the last one qualified to tell business how and if they need to
deploy resources for any stupid changes not to mention that it's for
their own interests.

In the business sector, Microsoft is just an OEM company and they are OK
if they just follow orders to do their work.


You're preaching to the choir.
I'm just providing the information by linking to the source (i.e MSFT
and those in control of what will happen)...everything else
is just hypothesis or an expectation based on a form of entitlement.

Here's another article from the source g May 10th, 2013.

The Official Microsoft Blog
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2013/05/10/staying-centered.aspx


Regarding getting 'paid' - after 100 million copies (all possible
channels - retail, licensing, upgrades, OEM pcs, System Builder
versions) sold
- even if just using the upgrade limited offer pricing of $40 ea. they
got paid about 4 billion dollars!

Afaics....nntp forums are fine for discussing issues...but expressing an
opinion here serves no purpose whatsoever to MSFT and hasn't for at
least 4 years.

Additionally, similar distress was expressed about the 'Ribbon'
deployment in Office and other products (Windows Essentials and earlier
versions)
***It's still here***
....and the person responsible for the Ribbon in Office is now the
person responsible for Windows! (link/video of her comments on Windows
8 past and future provided earlier)




Regarding getting 'paid' - after 100 million copies (all possible
channels - retail, licensing, upgrades, OEM pcs, System Builder
versions) sold
- even if just using the upgrade limited offer pricing of $40 ea. they
got paid about 4 billion dollars!


You do know that approximately 80% of MS client OS sales goes to PC OEMs
(e.g. Dell, HP. Acer, etc.), right?

How about do some cross-check on PC sales in recent years and months?

WOW, it has been declining even faster. So where are most of "100
million copies"? Sitting at PC makers' inventory list and eating their
profits.

Wake up.

And yes, most of those products are still there with shrinking market
share and MS is less relevant for any new developments.




  #41  
Old May 11th 13, 02:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,502
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

On 5/11/13 4:12 AM, ...winston wrote:
"xfile" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote....


snip

Additionally, similar distress was expressed about the 'Ribbon' deployment in Office and other products (Windows Essentials and
earlier versions)
***It's still here***
....and the person responsible for the Ribbon in Office is now the person responsible for Windows! (link/video of her comments on
Windows 8 past and future provided earlier)


But that doesn't mean that:

1. People like it
2. It is/was a good idea.

My observation of the majority of computer users/consumers is they are
still basically ignorant about them.

Take MS Word, for example. How many users of Word have it because they
think/believe they "have" to have Word to be compatible with other word
processor users? I don't think they know that almost every word
processor these days read and write doc/docx files. Even the free
ones. And you aren't limited to Windows for this! I use a Mac, and the
free word processor I use (for a little while longer, anyway :-) ) can
read and write Word files. And the one I'm going to look at as a
replacement also reads and writes the files.

I think too many users choose Windows and MS Office products because
they are sheeple. Everyone else has it, everyone else says that's what
they need, so that's what they buy. There's other reasons too, such as
it's hard to find Mac outlets, even harder to see a Linux box, but I'm
referring to the aggregate result.

Lastly...

Please, Winston, would you use a different program for posting to the
newsgroup? Normally, I neither read nor reply to your posts because it
wastes my time to wade through things trying to figure out who said
what. I only read it this time because of the subject of the thread.

Your use of software that does not follow the guidelines only encourages
people to accept products that don't work correctly, and teaches them
that poor performance is acceptable.

You are a knowledgeable person. You should be teaching people to be
better computer users, not poorer. Lead by example.

You are better than this, IMO.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.3
Firefox 20.0
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.1.2
  #42  
Old May 12th 13, 12:29 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
...winston[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,861
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

xfile wrote:
On 5/11/2013 18:12, ...winston wrote:
"xfile" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote....
As previously noted...a Start Button does not necessarily indicate a
Win7 type Start Menu.



Whether it's Win7 type is irrelevant and it's not the point, and the
main point is that the primary mission of an operating system in *the
business sector* is to serve as a stable "platform" for applications run
on it, and within the primary mission, the UI design is to minimize, if
not totally eliminate, user confusion and learning curve so they could
quickly access to data and applications to complete their tasks.

If the primary mission is failed, everything else is just BS.

Win7 style or not, it's their job to accomplish the above mission to get
paid (by licensing).

In the consumer sector, there is no hard rules because everything can be
subjective and base on personal preferences.

Microsoft, as an OEM software development company, miscalculated and
forgot their role, again, and tried to mix the two distinctive segments
together with one half-baked product.

They are the last one qualified to tell business how and if they need to
deploy resources for any stupid changes not to mention that it's for
their own interests.

In the business sector, Microsoft is just an OEM company and they are OK
if they just follow orders to do their work.


You're preaching to the choir.
I'm just providing the information by linking to the source (i.e MSFT
and those in control of what will happen)...everything else
is just hypothesis or an expectation based on a form of entitlement.

Here's another article from the source g May 10th, 2013.

The Official Microsoft Blog
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2013/05/10/staying-centered.aspx



Regarding getting 'paid' - after 100 million copies (all possible
channels - retail, licensing, upgrades, OEM pcs, System Builder
versions) sold
- even if just using the upgrade limited offer pricing of $40 ea. they
got paid about 4 billion dollars!

Afaics....nntp forums are fine for discussing issues...but expressing an
opinion here serves no purpose whatsoever to MSFT and hasn't for at
least 4 years.

Additionally, similar distress was expressed about the 'Ribbon'
deployment in Office and other products (Windows Essentials and earlier
versions)
***It's still here***
....and the person responsible for the Ribbon in Office is now the
person responsible for Windows! (link/video of her comments on Windows
8 past and future provided earlier)




Regarding getting 'paid' - after 100 million copies (all possible
channels - retail, licensing, upgrades, OEM pcs, System Builder
versions) sold
- even if just using the upgrade limited offer pricing of $40 ea. they
got paid about 4 billion dollars!


You do know that approximately 80% of MS client OS sales goes to PC OEMs
(e.g. Dell, HP. Acer, etc.), right?

How about do some cross-check on PC sales in recent years and months?

WOW, it has been declining even faster. So where are most of "100
million copies"? Sitting at PC makers' inventory list and eating their
profits.

Wake up.

And yes, most of those products are still there with shrinking market
share and MS is less relevant for any new developments.




As I said earlier, you're preaching to the choir.
100 million installed or sitting on OEM inventory lists is already
revenue on MSFT's books.

Lol...I don't need cross check anything.

The PC market has been saturated for quite some time with sales not
declining because of Windows but due to the increased usage of alternate
devices. For years a significant population used pcs for simple tasks
not available on smart devices none of which now require a pc with an
installed software base.

MSFT will continue to sell Windows (7, 8 and later) just like it has in
the past with deprecation of older operating systems. Imo, not at the
same rate to the same people. Businesses really don't get much of a
choice...deploy updated hardware and software for whatever desktop user
base exists and choose something else for portable mobility/on-the-go
needs.

The only wake-up call afaics is to recognize that its necessary to adapt
or be left behind since the entire ecosystem is evolving into an entire
different culture for the essential/discretionary income of the next
generation (i.e. not yours, mine, or the prior business models) with
increasing mobility/smart device needs/usage.



--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #43  
Old May 12th 13, 01:13 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
...winston[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,861
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

Ken Springer wrote:

...winston wrote....
....and the person responsible for the Ribbon in Office is now the
person responsible for Windows! (link/video of her comments on
Windows 8 past and future provided earlier)


But that doesn't mean that:

1. People like it
2. It is/was a good idea.

My observation of the majority of computer users/consumers is they are
still basically ignorant about them.

Take MS Word, for example. How many users of Word have it because they
think/believe they "have" to have Word to be compatible with other word
processor users? I don't think they know that almost every word
processor these days read and write doc/docx files. Even the free
ones. And you aren't limited to Windows for this! I use a Mac, and the
free word processor I use (for a little while longer, anyway :-) ) can
read and write Word files. And the one I'm going to look at as a
replacement also reads and writes the files.

I think too many users choose Windows and MS Office products because
they are sheeple. Everyone else has it, everyone else says that's what
they need, so that's what they buy. There's other reasons too, such as
it's hard to find Mac outlets, even harder to see a Linux box, but I'm
referring to the aggregate result.


And my point regarding the Ribbon was that if the person in charge of
the Ribbon (and the entire Office program) continued on the same UI path
with three versions of Office (07/10/13)it's unlikely her(Julie) and
MSFT's path for Windows 8 and later won't be much different than what is
known today for some time. The organization is just too large to
implement change in less than 2 product cycles....thus if you use or
depend upon Windows (or Office) wysiwyg for quite a few years.

I do think the Start button may come back but primarily as a tool for
the existing and other utilities many that are present on the
'lower-left-corner' flyout menu (i.e. not for installed software or
applications)....thus a Start button but not a Program Menu.

Like it ? Good idea ? Who knows. What I believe is people accept what's
available and for the most part adapt to what they have, and as far as
Windows is concerned when then happens the built-in telemetry captured
from is MSFT's primary data set for UI feedback which in effect confirms
usage, objective, and direction. The MSFT controlled support community
(Support personne and forum moderator but not others) isn't much
different than the past...it's damage control with coached replies for
known or rising issues with possibly skewed visions of becoming or
branding it as a community....afaics, it just one big 'BOG' - a bunch of
guys hanging out, pretty much like what nntp has become.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #44  
Old May 12th 13, 10:26 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

On 5/12/2013 07:29, ...winston wrote:
xfile wrote:
On 5/11/2013 18:12, ...winston wrote:
"xfile" wrote in message ...

...winston wrote....
As previously noted...a Start Button does not necessarily indicate a
Win7 type Start Menu.


Whether it's Win7 type is irrelevant and it's not the point, and the
main point is that the primary mission of an operating system in *the
business sector* is to serve as a stable "platform" for applications run
on it, and within the primary mission, the UI design is to minimize, if
not totally eliminate, user confusion and learning curve so they could
quickly access to data and applications to complete their tasks.

If the primary mission is failed, everything else is just BS.

Win7 style or not, it's their job to accomplish the above mission to get
paid (by licensing).

In the consumer sector, there is no hard rules because everything can be
subjective and base on personal preferences.

Microsoft, as an OEM software development company, miscalculated and
forgot their role, again, and tried to mix the two distinctive segments
together with one half-baked product.

They are the last one qualified to tell business how and if they need to
deploy resources for any stupid changes not to mention that it's for
their own interests.

In the business sector, Microsoft is just an OEM company and they are OK
if they just follow orders to do their work.


You're preaching to the choir.
I'm just providing the information by linking to the source (i.e MSFT
and those in control of what will happen)...everything else
is just hypothesis or an expectation based on a form of entitlement.

Here's another article from the source g May 10th, 2013.

The Official Microsoft Blog
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2013/05/10/staying-centered.aspx




Regarding getting 'paid' - after 100 million copies (all possible
channels - retail, licensing, upgrades, OEM pcs, System Builder
versions) sold
- even if just using the upgrade limited offer pricing of $40 ea. they
got paid about 4 billion dollars!

Afaics....nntp forums are fine for discussing issues...but expressing an
opinion here serves no purpose whatsoever to MSFT and hasn't for at
least 4 years.

Additionally, similar distress was expressed about the 'Ribbon'
deployment in Office and other products (Windows Essentials and earlier
versions)
***It's still here***
....and the person responsible for the Ribbon in Office is now the
person responsible for Windows! (link/video of her comments on Windows
8 past and future provided earlier)




Regarding getting 'paid' - after 100 million copies (all possible
channels - retail, licensing, upgrades, OEM pcs, System Builder
versions) sold
- even if just using the upgrade limited offer pricing of $40 ea. they
got paid about 4 billion dollars!


You do know that approximately 80% of MS client OS sales goes to PC OEMs
(e.g. Dell, HP. Acer, etc.), right?

How about do some cross-check on PC sales in recent years and months?

WOW, it has been declining even faster. So where are most of "100
million copies"? Sitting at PC makers' inventory list and eating their
profits.

Wake up.

And yes, most of those products are still there with shrinking market
share and MS is less relevant for any new developments.




As I said earlier, you're preaching to the choir.
100 million installed or sitting on OEM inventory lists is already
revenue on MSFT's books.

Lol...I don't need cross check anything.

The PC market has been saturated for quite some time with sales not
declining because of Windows but due to the increased usage of alternate
devices. For years a significant population used pcs for simple tasks
not available on smart devices none of which now require a pc with an
installed software base.

MSFT will continue to sell Windows (7, 8 and later) just like it has in
the past with deprecation of older operating systems. Imo, not at the
same rate to the same people. Businesses really don't get much of a
choice...deploy updated hardware and software for whatever desktop user
base exists and choose something else for portable mobility/on-the-go
needs.

The only wake-up call afaics is to recognize that its necessary to adapt
or be left behind since the entire ecosystem is evolving into an entire
different culture for the essential/discretionary income of the next
generation (i.e. not yours, mine, or the prior business models) with
increasing mobility/smart device needs/usage.




100 million installed or sitting on OEM inventory lists is already
revenue on MSFT's books.


Some non-Microsoft information for you,

You are right about PC market has been saturated for quite some time
(actually, about 7-8 years) but it is in developed countries whilst in
emerging countries (e.g. China, India, etc.) PC has just entered into
the growth stage.

But according to IDC (a reputable and creditable research firm),
shipments of PCs fell 14% *worldwide* last quarter (1st Quarter, 2013)
and it was the *worst* yearly decline since IDC began tracking the data
in 1994.

According to Gartner (another reputable research firm), vice president
Michael Silver says Microsoft “didn’t listen to customers who were
pointing out in testing. They could have had a middle ground, but chose
not to…" and this is the main reason caused this sharp decline -----
*WORLDWIDE*.

You must know that Microsoft relies on major PC makers for sales and
revenues but Dell goes private, and HP wants to sell its PC division (no
taker) so keeps it for their server division, but how long can they keep
it? Acer's primary revenue now is from OEM business not PCs.

So who is going to generate revenues for Microsoft if its major partners
go under? System builders selling 2-3 units a day?

I wouldn't be so happy if I were you, but I am not you. Who cares if
the entire PC industry is done and if other makers are making money, as
long as MS is making money, right? Good thinking

There is always a choice, and the question has always been that when the
choice would be made. Continuing to buy MS products is a rational
decision to maintain the current operational infrastructure, and there
is no reason to replace otherwise perfectly working infrastructure which
is the opposite of MS mentality (let's break things down).

The problem is that Microsoft is now been perceived as a selfish,
out-of-touch, and unreliable business partner, so for new
infrastructures, people are looking for anything but from Microsoft.

You think Microsoft doesn't know that or else why would they quickly
determine to come up 8.1?

Seriously, wake up







  #45  
Old May 12th 13, 10:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
...winston[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,861
Default Best Win 8 Start Button replacement program?

xfile wrote:

So who is going to generate revenues for Microsoft if its major partners
go under? System builders selling 2-3 units a day?

I wouldn't be so happy if I were you, but I am not you. Who cares if
the entire PC industry is done and if other makers are making money, as
long as MS is making money, right? Good thinking

There is always a choice, and the question has always been that when the
choice would be made. Continuing to buy MS products is a rational
decision to maintain the current operational infrastructure, and there
is no reason to replace otherwise perfectly working infrastructure which
is the opposite of MS mentality (let's break things down).

The problem is that Microsoft is now been perceived as a selfish,
out-of-touch, and unreliable business partner, so for new
infrastructures, people are looking for anything but from Microsoft.

You think Microsoft doesn't know that or else why would they quickly
determine to come up 8.1?

Seriously, wake up




Lol...this isn't really about the status of the pc market.
What it is about is the inability to recognize that while others may be
reading your replies in this forum (and who knows where else) that no
one here (or elsewhere) has any ability to effect change on what you
believe should happen....afaics that is the 'wake up' needing
realization (by everyone...you, others, and even I)

No reason to replace perfectly working infrastructure ? Well that ~40%
of XP infrastructure that remains has two choices (less than a year when
XP's entire product and support life cycle ends) if continuing with
Windows. MSFT is perfectly comfortable with either choice - Windows 7 or
Windows 8 (which means more Windows licenses and hardware will continue
to be sold - The OEM's know and for the most part also welcome that...no
further need for them to maintain an infrastructure in-house/outsourced
to support XP)

As far as 8.1 MSFT inferred prior to Win8 GA that updates for Win8 (and
obviously later o/s) would happen more often than previous o/s SP's with
the first blushes of that plan already occuring twice - the 170 MB Win8
RTM update prior to GA and more recently the deployment of combo updates
(bundled product and security) for Win8 apps via the Windows Store and
not through Windows Update.

Cf. MSFT Oct 2012
qp
During the final months of Windows 8 we challenged ourselves to create
the tools and processes to be able to deliver these 'post-RTM' updates
sooner than a service pack," Sinofsky wrote. "By developing better test
automation and test coverage tools ... Windows 8 will be totally up to
date for all customers starting at General Availability."
/qp

Once again...read between the lines...Windows as previously known (the
o/s, how and when updates are deployed will never be the same as in the
past)...in the long run everyone using any device (pc, smart, mobile,
etc.) will adapt too (or be left behind)though do feel free to continue
to rant....since for all practical purposes save a few occasional
helpful usenet threads the entertainment value is much better than
reality TV and Fox news.


--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps


 




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