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MS 8.1 Update



 
 
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  #46  
Old August 14th 14, 03:06 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Blake, MVP[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,699
Default MS 8.1 Update

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 23:50:59 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:


Somewhere, I have a small pile of older USB flash drives of similar capacity
- 128MB, 256MB, and a couple of 1GB flash drives. Most recently, I bought a
pair of 128GB flash drives. The amazing thing to me is that no matter the
capacity, the form factor hasn't changed. My 128GB drives are the same
physical size as my 128MB drives, despite having roughly 1000 times the
storage capacity.




Yes, much the same thing is true of hard drives.

Ads
  #47  
Old August 14th 14, 03:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Big Al[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,588
Default MS 8.1 Update

Char Jackson wrote on 8/14/2014 12:47 AM:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:54:03 +0100, Tester wrote:

On 13/08/2014 18:21, . . .winston wrote:

- thus Win9 could also follow one of both of those paths (no media,
all full version)in addition to a subscription version.


I am not surprised because more and more OEMs (DELL for example) are not
installing CD/DVD Roms so they are becoming obsolete like old 3.5 disk
drives. Also, to distribute applications on a USB flash drive is not
convenient because of the bulkiness!!!


Per cubic foot or whatever unit of measure you care to use, are USB flash
drives any more bulky than CDs or DVDs? I think not, and when you get away
from the question of quantity and move to the question of capacity, USB
flash drives run away and leave optical media in the dust.

I just bought a pair of 128 GB (yes, gigabyte) USB flash drives for $40
each. At 700 MB per CD or 4.3GB per single layer DVD, how big a stack of
optical discs does it take to equal a single 128GB flash drive? Bulkiness
can be an issue, but it's more likely to be an issue with optical discs.

I recently wanted to buy another laptop and a desktop from DELL and I
had to make sure I select the systems with CD/DVD drives otherwise they
would have sent me without them.


My last two laptops, both Dell systems, were ordered without optical drives.
One of them used the space for a second hard drive, which is much more
useful to me than an optical drive. YMMV

What model # Dell did you get. I've always wanted a dual drive system.
I had a dual battery HP laptop 10 years ago. I think the one
battery could be replaced with an HD but we traveled and I wanted
battery when they were only 1+ hr per then.

  #48  
Old August 14th 14, 03:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default MS 8.1 Update

A wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Good Guy wrote:
On 13/08/2014 18:49, A wrote:

And if you miss a payment, bye bye data.

Where did you get this from? I thought you can subscribe to OneDrive
without having Office365! I have onedrive free versions (old hotmail
type accounts with 25 GB) but I can add extra diskspace if I want to.




One can have a free OneDrive account (15GB) or pay for additional
storage ($2/mo down from $7.50 for 100GB or $4 down from $11.50 for
200GB).

Office 365 provides 1TB OneDrive storage for each user.

Both, additional storage and Office 365 subscriptions have auto-renewal
options. i.e. if enabled, and credit card is valid then no missed
payments.




It's also important to note Office 365 isn't true cloud software...the
software still installs on the pc. For certain plans full application
programs (just like Office 2013) are installed locally.

Even if the subscription expires, one does not lose the ability to open
files (view, save)...the ability to edit them is halted until the
subscription is renewed. Files from OneDrive are also not deleted. They
can be viewed and or downloaded.

I.e. Bottom line...what some people think it is and base their
opinion/discussion may not be the least bit correct.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps


Can one edit files using another program such as Libre Office if the
subscription expires?


Certainly, files are yours and not read only or proprietary file format.
Office 365 and 2013 continue to use the same file type protocols (e.g.
xls, xlsx, doc, docx, ppt, pptx, etc).


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #49  
Old August 14th 14, 04:06 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
A
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 289
Default MS 8.1 Update

.. . .winston wrote:
A wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Good Guy wrote:
On 13/08/2014 18:49, A wrote:

And if you miss a payment, bye bye data.

Where did you get this from? I thought you can subscribe to OneDrive
without having Office365! I have onedrive free versions (old hotmail
type accounts with 25 GB) but I can add extra diskspace if I want to.




One can have a free OneDrive account (15GB) or pay for additional
storage ($2/mo down from $7.50 for 100GB or $4 down from $11.50 for
200GB).

Office 365 provides 1TB OneDrive storage for each user.

Both, additional storage and Office 365 subscriptions have auto-renewal
options. i.e. if enabled, and credit card is valid then no missed
payments.




It's also important to note Office 365 isn't true cloud software...the
software still installs on the pc. For certain plans full application
programs (just like Office 2013) are installed locally.

Even if the subscription expires, one does not lose the ability to open
files (view, save)...the ability to edit them is halted until the
subscription is renewed. Files from OneDrive are also not deleted. They
can be viewed and or downloaded.

I.e. Bottom line...what some people think it is and base their
opinion/discussion may not be the least bit correct.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps


Can one edit files using another program such as Libre Office if the
subscription expires?


Certainly, files are yours and not read only or proprietary file format.
Office 365 and 2013 continue to use the same file type protocols (e.g.
xls, xlsx, doc, docx, ppt, pptx, etc).



That's nice. I still don't want to rent software, although I can see how
it would limit piracy and malware.

--
A
  #50  
Old August 14th 14, 05:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Keith Nuttle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,844
Default MS 8.1 Update

On 8/14/2014 8:57 AM, Paul wrote:
When they stack the layers, apparently the geometry (drawn
transistor dimensions) are bigger than competitor's chips.
To maintain performance, the individual layers aren't
as aggressively designed as a single layer chip. It must be
pretty hard to get chips like this to yield (get mostly
good silicon die, from each wafer). Based on the price they're
charging for them, this process must be working pretty well.

Back in the mid 90's there was talk of Electron Tunneling limiting the
density of a chip. I believe it was reached about the time Intel
started delivering chips with multiple processors.

How will electron tunneling effect memory devices?
  #51  
Old August 14th 14, 07:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,485
Default MS 8.1 Update

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:23:46 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:54:03 +0100, Tester wrote:

- thus Win9 could also follow one of both of those paths (no media,
all full version)in addition to a subscription version.


I am not surprised because more and more OEMs (DELL for example) are not
installing CD/DVD Roms so they are becoming obsolete like old 3.5 disk
drives. Also, to distribute applications on a USB flash drive is not
convenient because of the bulkiness!!!

I recently wanted to buy another laptop and a desktop from DELL and I
had to make sure I select the systems with CD/DVD drives otherwise they
would have sent me without them.


If your computer hasn't got a built-in CD/DVD drive, it's the easiest
thing in the world to plug in an external one. You'd only need to keep
one between all your computers for those rare occasions when you want
to install something. I even have a USB external floppy drive in a
cupboard somewhere, though I haven't used it for years.

Rod.


I was thinking something similar. The only difference is that I have
used my USB floppy drive recently - I had found a couple of old floppies
and decided to wipe them :-)

I have a slim USB optical drive as well. I got it for use with a now
retired netbook, but I'm keeping it in case I ever get a machine without
one.

Come to think of it, I have a huge (i.e., regular 5-1/4" form factor)
enclosure which could even hold a Blu-ray drive if needed.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #52  
Old August 14th 14, 07:26 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
BillW50
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,556
Default MS 8.1 Update

On 8/14/2014 1:09 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:23:46 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote:

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:54:03 +0100, Tester wrote:

- thus Win9 could also follow one of both of those paths (no media,
all full version)in addition to a subscription version.


I am not surprised because more and more OEMs (DELL for example) are not
installing CD/DVD Roms so they are becoming obsolete like old 3.5 disk
drives. Also, to distribute applications on a USB flash drive is not
convenient because of the bulkiness!!!

I recently wanted to buy another laptop and a desktop from DELL and I
had to make sure I select the systems with CD/DVD drives otherwise they
would have sent me without them.


If your computer hasn't got a built-in CD/DVD drive, it's the easiest
thing in the world to plug in an external one. You'd only need to keep
one between all your computers for those rare occasions when you want
to install something. I even have a USB external floppy drive in a
cupboard somewhere, though I haven't used it for years.

Rod.


I was thinking something similar. The only difference is that I have
used my USB floppy drive recently - I had found a couple of old floppies
and decided to wipe them :-)

I have a slim USB optical drive as well. I got it for use with a now
retired netbook, but I'm keeping it in case I ever get a machine without
one.

Come to think of it, I have a huge (i.e., regular 5-1/4" form factor)
enclosure which could even hold a Blu-ray drive if needed.


I did find one case where an external optical drive doesn't cut it. As I
purchased an used Alienware that needed some work and the first thing I
wanted to do was wipe the drive out and to use the factory install on
it. The internal drive had problems and I knew that and I was going to
fix that later and used an external optical drive to install Windows.

Guess what? The restore disc from Alienware would install fine but on
reboot and needed more stuff from the CD, would BSOD. Damn! Replaced the
internal optical drive with a good one and that one worked perfectly.

So while an USB optical drive could be used where internal optical drive
could (usually at lower transfer speeds), it doesn't cut it in 100% of
the cases.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2
  #53  
Old August 14th 14, 07:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default MS 8.1 Update

Keith Nuttle wrote:


How will electron tunneling effect memory devices?


We will need a person with a pointy hat to stop it.

It's possible with Flash, a higher value of write
voltage, makes the tunneling more probable. And with
it turned off, less probable. And Flash is funny, in
that I can still find doom and gloom articles
claiming that the mere act of reading flash, endangers
the contents. But this never seems to surface as
an issue we can see as users. Perhaps the ECC in
each flash sector, is the magic ingredient (correct
errors when they're detected ?). I don't know if it's
practical to rewrite data, on a bit flip, as it might
hasten wearout.

On DRAM, where the gate has fewer and fewer coulombs,
they think eventually they'll hit a limit. They've
been saying that for a lot of years. Maybe DRAM has
gone 3D in a way as well ? Like, extending devices
vertically, to scale them (less X-Y, more Z). It's
interesting that after all these years, Intel still
isn't willing to put ECC on desktops. "The DRAM
are that good." You would think when I can install
32GB of DRAM on my Intel desktop, a little ECC
wouldn't hurt.

Paul
  #54  
Old August 14th 14, 07:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
vallor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default MS 8.1 Update

On 08/13/2014 01:00 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:


GNU/Linux has been steadily improving for two decades and has yet to
become anything better than pure ****.


How quaint.

http://www.itworld.com/open-source/4...lly-coming-end

(...but I guess there are a few old fuddy-duddies still kicking around
these newsfroups...)

--
-v

  #55  
Old August 15th 14, 03:15 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default MS 8.1 Update

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:32:26 -0400, Big Al wrote:

Char Jackson wrote on 8/14/2014 12:47 AM:

My last two laptops, both Dell systems, were ordered without optical drives.
One of them used the space for a second hard drive, which is much more
useful to me than an optical drive. YMMV

What model # Dell did you get. I've always wanted a dual drive system.
I had a dual battery HP laptop 10 years ago. I think the one
battery could be replaced with an HD but we traveled and I wanted
battery when they were only 1+ hr per then.


The dual drive model is a Pavilion DV-7, followed by a 4-digit model number
that I don't recall at the moment. It might be a 1520 SE, or I could be
making that part up.

Come to think of it, I have another Dell that came with two hard drives, but
the second drive can be popped out and swapped for an optical drive. The
optical drive was also in the box, but I don't plan to ever use it. I don't
remember the model number of that one except I know it's an Inspiron.

  #56  
Old August 15th 14, 10:29 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default MS 8.1 Update

A wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
A wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Good Guy wrote:
On 13/08/2014 18:49, A wrote:

And if you miss a payment, bye bye data.

Where did you get this from? I thought you can subscribe to OneDrive
without having Office365! I have onedrive free versions (old hotmail
type accounts with 25 GB) but I can add extra diskspace if I want to.




One can have a free OneDrive account (15GB) or pay for additional
storage ($2/mo down from $7.50 for 100GB or $4 down from $11.50 for
200GB).

Office 365 provides 1TB OneDrive storage for each user.

Both, additional storage and Office 365 subscriptions have
auto-renewal
options. i.e. if enabled, and credit card is valid then no missed
payments.




It's also important to note Office 365 isn't true cloud software...the
software still installs on the pc. For certain plans full application
programs (just like Office 2013) are installed locally.

Even if the subscription expires, one does not lose the ability to open
files (view, save)...the ability to edit them is halted until the
subscription is renewed. Files from OneDrive are also not deleted.
They
can be viewed and or downloaded.

I.e. Bottom line...what some people think it is and base their
opinion/discussion may not be the least bit correct.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Can one edit files using another program such as Libre Office if the
subscription expires?


Certainly, files are yours and not read only or proprietary file format.
Office 365 and 2013 continue to use the same file type protocols (e.g.
xls, xlsx, doc, docx, ppt, pptx, etc).



That's nice. I still don't want to rent software, although I can see how
it would limit piracy and malware.

Subscription software isn't for everyone. I don't prefer it either. But
afaics, it's not going away....and in the long run it may be the only
source for many users that don't have access to iso or media based
versions of o/s and software.



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #57  
Old August 15th 14, 12:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
A
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 289
Default MS 8.1 Update

.. . .winston wrote:
A wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
A wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Good Guy wrote:
On 13/08/2014 18:49, A wrote:

And if you miss a payment, bye bye data.

Where did you get this from? I thought you can subscribe to
OneDrive
without having Office365! I have onedrive free versions (old
hotmail
type accounts with 25 GB) but I can add extra diskspace if I want
to.




One can have a free OneDrive account (15GB) or pay for additional
storage ($2/mo down from $7.50 for 100GB or $4 down from $11.50 for
200GB).

Office 365 provides 1TB OneDrive storage for each user.

Both, additional storage and Office 365 subscriptions have
auto-renewal
options. i.e. if enabled, and credit card is valid then no missed
payments.




It's also important to note Office 365 isn't true cloud software...the
software still installs on the pc. For certain plans full application
programs (just like Office 2013) are installed locally.

Even if the subscription expires, one does not lose the ability to
open
files (view, save)...the ability to edit them is halted until the
subscription is renewed. Files from OneDrive are also not deleted.
They
can be viewed and or downloaded.

I.e. Bottom line...what some people think it is and base their
opinion/discussion may not be the least bit correct.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Can one edit files using another program such as Libre Office if the
subscription expires?


Certainly, files are yours and not read only or proprietary file format.
Office 365 and 2013 continue to use the same file type protocols (e.g.
xls, xlsx, doc, docx, ppt, pptx, etc).



That's nice. I still don't want to rent software, although I can see how
it would limit piracy and malware.

Subscription software isn't for everyone. I don't prefer it either. But
afaics, it's not going away....and in the long run it may be the only
source for many users that don't have access to iso or media based
versions of o/s and software.




I hope the long run is really long.

--
A
  #58  
Old August 16th 14, 05:31 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
s|b
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,496
Default MS 8.1 Update [OT]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:04:04 +0100, Good Guy wrote:

No, GNU/Linux and LibreOffice are not quality work in comparison to
Windows and MS Office.


We have known this for years and that is why serious people are using
Windows and not Linux despite being free.


OS war! -)

--
s|b
  #59  
Old August 16th 14, 05:41 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Silver Slimer[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default MS 8.1 Update [OT]

On 2014-08-16 12:31 PM, s|b wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:04:04 +0100, Good Guy wrote:

No, GNU/Linux and LibreOffice are not quality work in comparison to
Windows and MS Office.


We have known this for years and that is why serious people are using
Windows and not Linux despite being free.


OS war! -)


There's no war, GNU/Linux has already lost. I'm generally very
open-minded about other operating systems but GNU/Linux is so
destructively awful that I have to advocate staying away from it
completely. There's no excuse for the same system and the same game
screen tearing when played in GNU/Linux, there's no excuse for a very
standard computer refusing to shut down or sleep in GNU/Linux, there's
also no excuse for one of their main desktop environments to run slow on
an i3 with 8GB of RAM.

--
Silver Slimer
OpenMedia Supporter
GNU/Linux is a dangerous attack on your data
  #60  
Old August 16th 14, 06:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
s|b
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,496
Default MS 8.1 Update [OT]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:41:34 -0400, Silver Slimer wrote:

OS war! -)


There's no war, GNU/Linux has already lost.


Don't be so serious. ;-)

OS war = when users of different operating systems debate (argue or
fight is perhaps a better word) over which OS is "the best". Always good
for a laugh...

--
s|b
 




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