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  #31  
Old October 18th 14, 06:26 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Tim Slattery[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default Window 8.1 tablets

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:

On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 15:02:15 +0100, Bob Henson
wrote:


a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make
the desktop usable.



I completely disagree. I know several people who happily use the
desktop interface with *no* modifying. And if you want to make it even
better, installing Start8 or Classic Shell is very far from "a lot of
modifying." It is *one* very easy and very quick thing to do.


Absolutely. That's what we've done on my wife's new 64-bit Win 8.1
machine. We never see the Metro interface.

--
Tim Slattery
tim at risingdove dot com
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  #32  
Old October 18th 14, 08:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Blake, MVP[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,699
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 13:26:07 -0400, Tim Slattery
wrote:

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:

On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 15:02:15 +0100, Bob Henson
wrote:


a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make
the desktop usable.



I completely disagree. I know several people who happily use the
desktop interface with *no* modifying. And if you want to make it even
better, installing Start8 or Classic Shell is very far from "a lot of
modifying." It is *one* very easy and very quick thing to do.


Absolutely. That's what we've done on my wife's new 64-bit Win 8.1
machine. We never see the Metro interface.



Same here, both on my machine and on my wife's (with Start8, which I
like better than Classic Shell, and it costs only $4.99). She *never*
sees the Metro/Modern interface, and I see it very briefly once a week
or so.

  #33  
Old October 18th 14, 08:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 714
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 12:48 PM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 07:37:04 -0500, Ed Propes
wrote:

Absolutely. Windows 10 is not a shred better than 8.1 - except, when you
find it, it has a "shutdown" button. That being said, with Classic Shell
added it can be turned into a usable system, and it works fine once you
have spent quite some time doing that.

Agreed, but it shouldn't need anything extra to turn it into a usable
system. If I've paid my money for something I expect it to be usable
as it is. Like the previous version, and the one before that, so we
know they can do it...

Rod.


A lot of discussion when a lot can change before RTM.


A lot about Windows 8 Preview could have changed before RTM.

But it didn't.

We've still got those wretched tiles. It's possible to avoid them
unless you accidentally select something wrong, then you stumble back
into a screenful of them. And they're still there in Windows 10, in
the Start menu. Microsoft seem determined at all costs to get us using
tiles whether we want them or not. What's wrong with a list?

Microsoft most likely doesn't care whether YOU use tiles or not.
However, much of the world has changed the way it is working, and folks
with phones and tablets have shown to be not the least bit interested in
"lists" as a UI. Just ask Blackberry. Even as far back as the Palm OS,
users have been pretty clear about their preferences for a GUI, and
today, it's a no-brainer that it's the only thing that WILL sell.
Metro/Modern is the integrating UI for those devices and having "the app
that you know" available on the desktop can't be that hard to
understand, can it?

I think it's a good thing that, even in 8.1, you can choose to use Tiles
or avoid them entirely.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #34  
Old October 18th 14, 08:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 714
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 10:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 18/10/2014 2:46 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-10-18 5:07 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
[...]
If Windows 10 kills anything it will be my interest in using any
Microsoft products at all. They*still* don't seem to have realised
that whatever may or may not work with fat fingers on a tablet,
millions of desktop users don't want a screenful of those tiles. [...]


a) you don't have to use Metro if you don't want to;
b) sales figures show that most of those desktop users are buying
laptops as replacements.


a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make
the desktop usable. There is no menu "out of the box" to use the desktop
versions of programs, only the cut-down rubbish in Metro. A
non-technical user would never find anything but the Metro apps.

There are so many options to address this without "a lot of modifiying"
that by now every Win8 user should know them, whether or not they are,
like myself, completely uninterested in going that route.

b) The same applies to laptops as desktops - they need the same extra
programs like Classic Shell to make them usable. Metro only has any real
value on a tablet computer or a phone.

For those who want to use the same apps on their desktop, with data in
sync via a cloud server, that notion is completely useless. So, you're
betting on the Luddites, and I'm betting on the rest of the world. ;-)

--
best regards,

Neil
  #35  
Old October 18th 14, 09:04 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 714
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 9:52 AM, Caver1 wrote:
On 10/18/2014 09:39 AM, Ken Springer wrote:

(big snip)

I upgraded to 8.1 from 8.0, and it defaulted to the desktop, not Metro.
I think I read somewhere that 8.1 checks to see if you have a touch
screen. If so, it defaults to Metro. If not, it defaults to the
desktop.


Not true. 8.1 defaults to the Metro side even if you don't have a touch
screen. I have helped with ones that upgraded to 8.1 and ones that
bought computers with 8.1 installed both defaulted to Metro, no touch
screens.

In my case, it defaulted to the Desktop after the upgrade, and I had to
dig into the system configuration to disable that behavior. And, guess
what? After reading into it, that is exactly what is supposed to happen.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #36  
Old October 18th 14, 09:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Keith Nuttle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,844
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 10:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 18/10/2014 2:46 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-10-18 5:07 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
[...]
If Windows 10 kills anything it will be my interest in using any
Microsoft products at all. They*still* don't seem to have realised
that whatever may or may not work with fat fingers on a tablet,
millions of desktop users don't want a screenful of those tiles. [...]


a) you don't have to use Metro if you don't want to;
b) sales figures show that most of those desktop users are buying
laptops as replacements.


a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make
the desktop usable. There is no menu "out of the box" to use the desktop
versions of programs, only the cut-down rubbish in Metro. A
non-technical user would never find anything but the Metro apps.

b) The same applies to laptops as desktops - they need the same extra
programs like Classic Shell to make them usable. Metro only has any real
value on a tablet computer or a phone.


You can make Windows 8.1 useable with three simple steps.

1. Find the Desktop icon in the metro interfaces. and click it.

2. Place the cursor in the toolbar on the desktop, and right click.

3. From the resultant pop up select Properties. In the Properties
Navigation tab, click "When I sign in or close all apps on a screen, got
to the Desktop instead of the Start."

When you reboot the computer will go directly to the Desktop. To add
programs to the desktop. Right click the MS icon on the right of the
Desktop tool bar, select File explorer, and add the programs you want to
the desktop.

After using Windows 8.1 for several months now, I go to the Metro App
screen in the Metro Start screen and pin my frequently used programs to
the desktop taskbar. With the Jumplist active (Properties Jumplist) I
see each file I have recently opened by right clicking on the program
icon in the taskbar.

That does not take a Ph.D. to do.






  #37  
Old October 18th 14, 09:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 714
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 10:03 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
(snip)

You can *make* 8.1 default to the desktop, but as installed it defaults
to Metro.

Perhaps you have a touch screen? I don't, and it defaulted to the
desktop, just as it was supposed to. Very annoying, IMO. If I wanted it
to default to the desktop, I would have configured it that way in the
first place.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #38  
Old October 18th 14, 09:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Keith Nuttle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,844
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 10:53 AM, philo wrote:
On 10/18/2014 09:03 AM, Bob Henson wrote:




That's correct and exactly the reason I think Microsoft got it wrong.

Too many people just knows computers by rote and to even figure out how
to switch from Metro to Classic is beyond their capability.

I upgraded to 8.1 from 8.0, and it defaulted to the desktop, not Metro.
I think I read somewhere that 8.1 checks to see if you have a touch
screen. If so, it defaults to Metro. If not, it defaults to the
desktop.



You can *make* 8.1 default to the desktop, but as installed it defaults
to Metro.



True, but what I found annoying is that if one hits the wrong key
somewhere, it pops back over to Metro.

Installing a 3rd party program such as Classic Shell fixes that.


You do not need a 3rd party program to make these fixes. Most can be
done from the Properties Navigation tab on the Desktop.

The rest can be changed by right clicking on the MS Icon on the Desktop
Toolbar, and selecting Control Panel. Many are in the Appearance and
Personalization section.
  #39  
Old October 18th 14, 09:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Caver1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 03:57 PM, Neil wrote:
On 10/18/2014 10:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 18/10/2014 2:46 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-10-18 5:07 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
[...]
If Windows 10 kills anything it will be my interest in using any
Microsoft products at all. They*still* don't seem to have realised
that whatever may or may not work with fat fingers on a tablet,
millions of desktop users don't want a screenful of those tiles. [...]

a) you don't have to use Metro if you don't want to;
b) sales figures show that most of those desktop users are buying
laptops as replacements.


a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make
the desktop usable. There is no menu "out of the box" to use the desktop
versions of programs, only the cut-down rubbish in Metro. A
non-technical user would never find anything but the Metro apps.

There are so many options to address this without "a lot of modifiying"
that by now every Win8 user should know them, whether or not they are,
like myself, completely uninterested in going that route.

b) The same applies to laptops as desktops - they need the same extra
programs like Classic Shell to make them usable. Metro only has any real
value on a tablet computer or a phone.

For those who want to use the same apps on their desktop, with data in
sync via a cloud server, that notion is completely useless. So, you're
betting on the Luddites, and I'm betting on the rest of the world. ;-)


You can have your data synced in the cloud with real programs not just
apps. The younger generations that only want to use their phones or
maybe tablets don't do any real work on them.

--
Caver1
  #40  
Old October 18th 14, 10:06 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ed Propes[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Window 8.1 tablets

Roderick Stewart formulated on Saturday :
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 07:37:04 -0500, Ed Propes
wrote:

Absolutely. Windows 10 is not a shred better than 8.1 - except, when you
find it, it has a "shutdown" button. That being said, with Classic Shell
added it can be turned into a usable system, and it works fine once you
have spent quite some time doing that.

Agreed, but it shouldn't need anything extra to turn it into a usable
system. If I've paid my money for something I expect it to be usable
as it is. Like the previous version, and the one before that, so we
know they can do it...

Rod.


A lot of discussion when a lot can change before RTM.


A lot about Windows 8 Preview could have changed before RTM.

But it didn't.

We've still got those wretched tiles. It's possible to avoid them
unless you accidentally select something wrong, then you stumble back
into a screenful of them. And they're still there in Windows 10, in
the Start menu. Microsoft seem determined at all costs to get us using
tiles whether we want them or not. What's wrong with a list?

Rod.


Not that I enjoy them any more than you do but they are not hard to
deal with. It took me 2 clicks to unpin them from the start menu. I
could probably uninstall them completely with a couple more clicks. As
it is I see none of them when I boot.

--
Ed Propes
  #41  
Old October 18th 14, 10:16 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Caver1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 05:06 PM, Ed Propes wrote:
Roderick Stewart formulated on Saturday :
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 07:37:04 -0500, Ed Propes
wrote:

Absolutely. Windows 10 is not a shred better than 8.1 - except, when you
find it, it has a "shutdown" button. That being said, with Classic Shell
added it can be turned into a usable system, and it works fine once you
have spent quite some time doing that.

Agreed, but it shouldn't need anything extra to turn it into a usable
system. If I've paid my money for something I expect it to be usable
as it is. Like the previous version, and the one before that, so we
know they can do it...

Rod.

A lot of discussion when a lot can change before RTM.


A lot about Windows 8 Preview could have changed before RTM.

But it didn't.

We've still got those wretched tiles. It's possible to avoid them
unless you accidentally select something wrong, then you stumble back
into a screenful of them. And they're still there in Windows 10, in
the Start menu. Microsoft seem determined at all costs to get us using
tiles whether we want them or not. What's wrong with a list?

Rod.


Not that I enjoy them any more than you do but they are not hard to
deal with. It took me 2 clicks to unpin them from the start menu. I
could probably uninstall them completely with a couple more clicks. As
it is I see none of them when I boot.


You can uninstall most of them them on the start page by right clicking
them and chose uninstall. There are a couple that you can only unpin
from the start page.

--
Caver1
  #42  
Old October 19th 14, 12:01 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 03:14 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 10/18/2014 10:53 AM, philo wrote:
On 10/18/2014 09:03 AM, Bob Henson wrote:







snip
ion tab on the Desktop.

The rest can be changed by right clicking on the MS Icon on the Desktop
Toolbar, and selecting Control Panel. Many are in the Appearance and
Personalization section.



Unfortunately, if you left click on the MS Icon, it goes right back to
tiles...a minor annoyance for me but a complete nightmare for those who
have learned by rote.
  #43  
Old October 19th 14, 02:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Keith Nuttle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,844
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 7:01 PM, philo wrote:
On 10/18/2014 03:14 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 10/18/2014 10:53 AM, philo wrote:
On 10/18/2014 09:03 AM, Bob Henson wrote:







snip
ion tab on the Desktop.

The rest can be changed by right clicking on the MS Icon on the Desktop
Toolbar, and selecting Control Panel. Many are in the Appearance and
Personalization section.



Unfortunately, if you left click on the MS Icon, it goes right back to
tiles...a minor annoyance for me but a complete nightmare for those who
have learned by rote.


In Windows XP if I right click on an desktop Icon I get a menu, If I
left click on it it opens the folder or program. Same difference
  #44  
Old October 19th 14, 03:52 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 10/18/2014 08:21 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:


Unfortunately, if you left click on the MS Icon, it goes right back to
tiles...a minor annoyance for me but a complete nightmare for those who
have learned by rote.


In Windows XP if I right click on an desktop Icon I get a menu, If I
left click on it it opens the folder or program. Same difference




But in XP there is /no/ way to get to "tiles"


I don't want to see them at all , no matter what...


  #45  
Old October 19th 14, 09:42 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bob Henson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 695
Default Window 8.1 tablets

On 18/10/2014 8:57 PM, Neil wrote:
On 10/18/2014 10:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 18/10/2014 2:46 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-10-18 5:07 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
[...]
If Windows 10 kills anything it will be my interest in using any
Microsoft products at all. They*still* don't seem to have realised
that whatever may or may not work with fat fingers on a tablet,
millions of desktop users don't want a screenful of those tiles. [...]

a) you don't have to use Metro if you don't want to;
b) sales figures show that most of those desktop users are buying
laptops as replacements.


a) You *do* have to use Metro, unless you do a lot of modifying to make
the desktop usable. There is no menu "out of the box" to use the desktop
versions of programs, only the cut-down rubbish in Metro. A
non-technical user would never find anything but the Metro apps.

There are so many options to address this without "a lot of modifiying"
that by now every Win8 user should know them, whether or not they are,
like myself, completely uninterested in going that route.

b) The same applies to laptops as desktops - they need the same extra
programs like Classic Shell to make them usable. Metro only has any real
value on a tablet computer or a phone.

For those who want to use the same apps on their desktop, with data in
sync via a cloud server, that notion is completely useless. So, you're
betting on the Luddites, and I'm betting on the rest of the world. ;-)


No, you're betting on what you would like to see - but it's not actually
like that.

--
Bob Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

Keyboard - standard device for generating computer errors.
 




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