Thunderbird Mail

How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's server
without going to the provider.

For
hotmail.com
gmail.com

On 11/12/18 4:39 PM, freebody wrote:
How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's server
without going to the provider.

For
Â*Â*Â*Â*hotmail.com
Â*Â*Â*Â*gmail.com

Interesting question, maybe folders under "local folders" are your
locally created folders and anything else is from gmail or hotmail?

In message , Big Al
writes:
On 11/12/18 4:39 PM, freebody wrote:
How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's
server without going to the provider.
For
****hotmail.com
****gmail.com

Interesting question, maybe folders under "local folders" are your
locally created folders and anything else is from gmail or hotmail?


What are you using to access the email:
o the webmail interface (i. e. you're using a browser)?
o a mail client, collecting by POP?
o a mail client, collecting by IMAP?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you help someone when they're in trouble, they will remember you when
they're in trouble again.

On 11/12/2018 4:24 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Big Al
writes:
On 11/12/18 4:39 PM, freebody wrote:
How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's
serverÂ* without going to the provider.
Â*For
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*hotmail.com
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*gmail.com

Interesting question, maybe folders under "local folders" are your
locally created folders and anything else is from gmail or hotmail?


What are you using to access the email:

What is the meaning of the letter o in front of the 3 next sentences?
Just curious.

o the webmail interface (i. e. you're using a browser)?
o a mail client, collecting by POP?
o a mail client, collecting by IMAP?

Rene

In message , Rene Lamontagne
writes:
On 11/12/2018 4:24 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Big Al
writes:
On 11/12/18 4:39 PM, freebody wrote:
How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's
server* without going to the provider.
*For
*****hotmail.com
*****gmail.com

Interesting question, maybe folders under "local folders" are your
locally created folders and anything else is from gmail or hotmail?


What are you using to access the email:

What is the meaning of the letter o in front of the 3 next sentences?
Just curious.

o the webmail interface (i. e. you're using a browser)?
o a mail client, collecting by POP?
o a mail client, collecting by IMAP?

Rene


A common way of doing bullet points in text-only situations. (I could
have used 1. 2. 3., I suppose. Or ".", but IMO a lower-case O looks
better.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The early worm gets the bird.

On 11/12/2018 4:45 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Rene Lamontagne
writes:
On 11/12/2018 4:24 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Big Al
writes:
On 11/12/18 4:39 PM, freebody wrote:
How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's
serverÂ* without going to the provider.
Â*For
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*hotmail.com
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*gmail.com

Interesting question, maybe folders under "local folders" are your
locally created folders and anything else is from gmail or hotmail?


What are you using to access the email:

What is the meaning of the letter o in front of the 3 next sentences?
Just curious.

o the webmail interface (i. e. you're using a browser)?
o a mail client, collecting by POP?
o a mail client, collecting by IMAP?

Rene


A common way of doing bullet points in text-only situations. (I could
have used 1. 2. 3., I suppose. Or ".", but IMO a lower-case O looks
better.)

Thanks for the explanation, It completely eluded me.

Rene

On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 22:45:12 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Rene Lamontagne
writes:
On 11/12/2018 4:24 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Big Al
writes:
On 11/12/18 4:39 PM, freebody wrote:
How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's
serverÂ* without going to the provider.
Â*For
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*hotmail.com
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*gmail.com

Interesting question, maybe folders under "local folders" are your
locally created folders and anything else is from gmail or hotmail?


What are you using to access the email:

What is the meaning of the letter o in front of the 3 next sentences?
Just curious.

o the webmail interface (i. e. you're using a browser)?
o a mail client, collecting by POP?
o a mail client, collecting by IMAP?

Rene

?
A common way of doing bullet points in text-only situations. (I could
have used 1. 2. 3., I suppose. Or ".", but IMO a lower-case O looks
better.)


I knew what you meant by the o, but I don't like the way it looks. I
think it's likely that some people would get confused by it, as Rene
did. I think 1. 2. 3. or "." would look better. And so would ° or · or
*

"freebody" wrote

| How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's server
| without going to the provider.
|

If you use TBird for POP3 or IMAP then you're
downloading the email from the server. The folder
is local. You can find it in your App Data....

| For
| hotmail.com
| gmail.com
|
.... But in this case it's academic because freebie
webmail providers also keep a copy. Usually they
keep a copy even if you think you deleted it.

If you want to back it up, back up the App Data
folders. If you're worried about privacy, don't use
hotmail or gmail.

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"freebody" wrote

| How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's server
| without going to the provider.
|

If you use TBird for POP3 or IMAP then you're
downloading the email from the server. The folder
is local. You can find it in your App Data....

AIUI, if you're using IMAP, it's also on the server. (I thought one of
the alleged points of IMAP was that folders are sort of "synced" between
your machine[s] and the server.)
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anything you add for security will slow the computer but it shouldn't be
significant or prolonged. Security software is to protect the computer, not
the primary use of the computer.
- VanguardLH in alt.windows7.general, 2018-1-28

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

|
| If you use TBird for POP3 or IMAP then you're
| downloading the email from the server. The folder
| is local. You can find it in your App Data....
|
| AIUI, if you're using IMAP, it's also on the server. (I thought one of
| the alleged points of IMAP was that folders are sort of "synced" between
| your machine[s] and the server.)

I didn't mean to contradict that. From his post
I couldn't tell what he wanted to know or why,
so I was just trying to answer whatever he *might*
be asking, figuring that maybe he was interested in
backing up his email but didn't know where it was.

imap when available.

Did anybody answer my question ?

How do I tell if a subfolder is just on Thunderbird or at my provider so
if go to a vacation PC will I see the subfolder ???


Confused !

"FREBODY" wrote

| imap when available.
|
| Did anybody answer my question ?
|
| How do I tell if a subfolder is just on Thunderbird or at my provider so
| if go to a vacation PC will I see the subfolder ???
|

You'd do better if you ask a clear question.
First you just wanted to know whether TBird mail
was local *or* on the server. If you have it set
up as POP3 it will delete the server version when
you download the email. If you use IMAP or webmail
it won't.

To see what you have set up, click on the account
name and then select the option to see the settings
for that account.

But if you go to another computer with TBird you'll
need to set up your email account before you can
get your email. You might be better off using webmail
while you're away, unless you know about how to
set up accounts, ports, etc in TBird.

freebody wrote:

How do I tell if a mail subfolder is local or on the provider's server
without going to the provider.

For
hotmail.com
gmail.com

You never bothered to mention which e-mail protocols you are using.
Hotmail/Outlook.com accounts can be accessed using POP, IMAP, or
Exchange. Gmail accounts can be access using POP or IMAP.

POP (Post Office Protocol) has no concept of a folder. There is just
the mailbox where all messages reside. There is no Drafts, Deleted,
Junk, or other folders in a mailbox because there are no folders in an
mailbox. Think of your filing cabinet but with no folders to separate
the documents, just all documents tossed into the drawer. Aebmail and
local clients will present the mailbox as a folder named Inbox but there
is no folder named Inbox in the mailbox itself. That's just how the
clients represent the mailbox. All other folders in a local POP client
are local; i.e., they are folders you created in the local message store
for that client and are not up in the server (since POP doesn't use
folders, just a mailbox). The Deleted, Junk, Sent folders are all
local-only with the client for a POP account. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Protocol

IMAP (Internet Message Access Protocol) does support folders. The
client will sync its local folders to the folders defined up on the
server. Often in a client you can decide which folders to sync but the
defaults are usually Inbox, Sent Items, and Drafts. Somewhere in
Thunderbird should be a sync folders option where you can select which
folders from the server will be created and synchronized in the client.
That way, you could, for example, create an Archive folder using the
webmail UI to your account and then add it to Thunderbird to keep a
locally synchronized copy of that folder, or create the folder in
Thunderbird and have it send a command to the server to add the new
folder. I don't use Thunderbird but somewhere within an account's
configuration should be synchronization options which can show you which
folders are being synchronized between client and server. Any other
folders you see in the folder tree would be local only.

IMAP does support the concept of folders for organizating or tagging the
e-mails. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...ccess_Protocol

Despite Gmail claims to support POP and IMAP, Google started with a
webmail-only client and then did a frankenjob allowing POP and IMAP
access. Gmail uses tags, not folders, to organize messages. That means
a message could have multiple tags, but in IMAP a message is only in a
single folder. Gmail converts tags to folder names during IMAP access.
I have not tested into which folder a retrieved message gets stored if
it has multiple tags up on the server. Google decided some settings
would be configured only at the server which violates some functions in
the e-mail protocols. For example, no matter what you configure in your
client, having it delete a message after a retrieve (i.e., RETR followed
by DELE), the server will still keep the message unless you configure a
delete after retrieve. This can screw up an e-mail monitor which
retrieves a message using POP but then the user cannot retrieve it into
their regular e-mail client. Depends on how the server is configured,
not how the clients behave. Because of Google's variances away from the
standard e-mail protocols, access to Gmail should really be called gPOP
and gIMAP. Their close enough to POP and IMAP that typical scenarios
work but when you get fancy in your e-mail setup then you can run into
Google's screwups in trying to adapt their webmail service to POP and
IMAP.

I found this from Mozilla:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb...ynchronization

The client will poll the server for a list of folders that your account
up there has defined within it. A list of all folders returned by the
server are listed in the client (Thunderbird). You can then decide
which ones are synchronized (with a checkmark). Of the IMAP-capable
clients that I've used, they all had a means of selecting to which
folders they would sync up on the server (and any other folders
presented in the client are local-only folders defined only within that
client).

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
[]
I found this from Mozilla:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb...ynchronization

The client will poll the server for a list of folders that your account
up there has defined within it. A list of all folders returned by the
server are listed in the client (Thunderbird). You can then decide
which ones are synchronized (with a checkmark). Of the IMAP-capable
clients that I've used, they all had a means of selecting to which
folders they would sync up on the server (and any other folders
presented in the client are local-only folders defined only within that
client).

AIUI, if you move an email between synced IMAP folders, or delete it,
this move or deletion (ignoring that gmail allegedly never deletes) will
eventually take place both locally and on the server. (I'm not worried
about how, or when, at the moment.) Is that right?

If you move an email from a synced IMAP folder to a local-only folder,
does it (eventually - again ignoring how and when for the moment) get
_deleted_ from the server? If not, what _does_ happen to that email on
the server?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

What's awful about weird views is not the views. It's the intolerance. If
someone wants to worship the Duke of Edinburgh or a pineapple, fine. But don't
kill me if I don't agree. - Tim Rice, Radio Times 15-21 October 2011.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

VanguardLH WROTE:

AIUI, if you move an email between synced IMAP folders, or delete it,
this move or deletion will eventually take place both locally and on
the server.

If you move an email from a synced IMAP folder to a local-only folder,
does it get _deleted_ from the server? If not, what _does_ happen to
that email on the server?

Depends on the client. I don't use Thunderbird, so I don't know how it
handles deletes from an IMAP-synchronized folder. In MS Outlook,
deletes are pending. In some old versions, you would see a red-lined
items meaning it was flagged for deletion. Not until a sync poll did
the item get deleted. The client flags the item for deletion but it
won't be until later that the client actually syncs with the server to
then get the same item deleted on the server. In later versions of
Outlook, they added the option that delete-flagged items would get
synchronized to the server when you changed focus; that is, when you
clicked on a different folder than a sync was made to the server. That
means the item is still delete-flagged but the sync occurs sooner but
only if you change focus away from the folder with the delete-flagged
item. The view is normally defined to hide delete-flagged items, so you
think it got deleted in Outlook but perhaps not yet.

I'm assuming you're asking about actually deleting an item, not moving
it to another folder (i.e., you delete an item in one folder which
actually only has it moved to the Deleted Items folder). With POP, a
move from Inbox to Deleted Items means the client sends a DELE command
to the server while locally just moving the item to another local-only
folder. With IMAP, a delete from the Inbox is likely just a move
operation to the Deleted Items folder (both of which are local and
server folders that get sync'ed). In that case, the client effects a
MOVE command to the server (I didn't bother to check if MOVE ever got
ratified as an extension in IMAP) by sending SELECT, COPY, and EXPUNGE
commands (or UID COPY, UID STORE, and UID EXPUNGE). As to when the
client sends those commands depends on the behavior its author decided.
That's when moving an item from one folder (e.g., Inbox) to another
folder (e.g., Deleted Items). When actually deletings (issue DELE
command), that depends on when the client decides to issue the command.
If the user were to delete, say, a couple thousand items to cleanup
their Deleted Items folder, the client would likely store those until
the next sync but may hide the delete-flagged items before then.

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Deleting_m..._IMAP_accounts

From that article, it appears Thunderbird doesn't expunge until it is
exited (versus Outlook that will purge when focus changes from a
folder). There's probably some efficiency or reduction in mail sessions
by doing the expunge upon an event instead of immediately. It also
means there is a means to recover an accidentally item before the event
occurs. Even the "Remove immediately" is a delayed delete that waits
until compaction occurs in Tbird, so delete-flagged items remain on the
server until an expunge is later performed (by you electing to compact
all, letting Tbird do its disk space saving compaction, or you
right-click on a folder and elect to compact).

A move from a sync'ed IMAP folder (shown in the client) to a local-only
folder in the client means having to do a local copy in the client
followed by a delete sent from client to server (but the delete is
likely delayed as noted above). Moving from an IMAP folder to a
local-only folder will eventually delete the item on the server in the
IMAP folder.

In Outlook and in the settings for an IMAP account is the option "Purge
items when switching folders while online". Delete-flagged items are
normally hidden from view (check your view settings) and wait to get
deleted up on the server until the user changes focus away from the
folder containing the delete-flagged item(s). The only purge option I
remember about Thunderbird is the "upon exit" option, as mentioned in
the above article. I leave Outlook running all the time. Unless I
reboot Windows or have to exit and restart Outlook because it gets
"confused" after a while (logins start failing, login credentials are
stored okay, but Outlook screws up and a restart fixes it), Outlook is
loaded when I log into my Windows account (it's a startup item) and
remains running until I logout or shutdown (which could be weeks apart).
With Thunderbird left running all the time, delete-flagged items are not
expunged until sometime later when you exit Thunderbird, when you
overtly choose to compact its message store, or when a disk space
threshold on delete-flagged items triggers the compaction.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb...mpaction-occur