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#1
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/
No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. |
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#2
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
Mayayana wrote:
https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the response looks like it worked. "Keep 'em busy so they don't know the response is irrelevant." It's the same reason you hear music "noise" while on hold, so you don't become impatient to think that the call got disconnected because the hold is so damn long. What, you've seen seen some slacker at work that stays busy doing nothing hoping his supervisor doesn't realize he/she isn't doing any actual work? That's what MS reps in the forums do: make noise, don't address the issue, keep you busy, hope you don't realize they haven't a clue how to actually troubleshoot the issue. The only help you ever got in Microsoft's forums was from other users; that is, you rely on peer support there, not Microsoft pseudo-support. This isn't new. Been that way since the dawn of their web-based forums. That those useless Microsoft reps that puke out fake advice are leaving is probably a good thing: the user isn't misled into thinking they received help and the thread doesn't look busy, so someone else that could help is also not misled into thinking help was given. Those MS reps are more trolls (experts in subterfuge to hide their ineptitude) than in providing help. Note: MVPs there are /*not*/ Microsoft employees. Of course, Microsoft is going even further. Hell, why stop with a threat of non-participation when you can be an even bigger asshole just because you can. "Some forums will be locked, preventing users from helping each other as well." You won't even be able to get peer support there. Microsoft abandoned Usenet after a few years because they didn't control Usenet (using the excuse that a later version of their Windows product ceased including an NNTP server). They're doing the same in their web-based forums: disable users giving useful help to other users and instead having their uneducated and inexperienced rep puke out canned responses that obviously do not target the issue. Microsoft's choices have no effect here, though. |
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter to them. Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help "function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the error codes they provide. Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really just a small shell script. And not just at MS. -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
#4
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
Mayayana wrote:
https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...ating-in-some- support-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Literally the only time I ever asked MS for help was to verify that a Windows 95 serial was legit. (It was; user error.) Beyond that...? A friend used to be a low-level manager/supervisor in an MS call center around 15-20 years ago. She has absolutely no technical knowledge whatsoever. Take that however you want to. -- We will love you till you learn to love yourself. |
#5
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On 6/11/2018 7:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote [in part]:
Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the response looks like it worked. In other words, Microsoft employees address problems in the forums with the same type of scripts that are used by many companies' customer support call centers. If you have a problem that is not addressed in the script, you are led very much astray. I have experienced this with Microsoft's call center, so why would anyone expect something different with the forums? -- David E. Ross http://www.rossde.com/ First you say you do, and then you don't. And then you say you will, but then won't. You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do? From a 1950s song That should be Donald Trump's theme song. He obviously does not understand "commitment", whether it is about policy or marriage. |
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On 06/11/2018 09:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
[snip] Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the response looks like it worked. I once had a minor problem with a satellite TV service (error in online guide) and sent a message to them about it. They replied with some instructions on using my receiver (which had nothing to do with the problem). I wrote back about that and got instructions for using the website (again, nothing to do with my problem). Then I tried calling. The only thing they would do is reset my password (unlikely to help, I have tried getting the guide on a different browser on a different computer that had never been logged in, through a different ISP and still got the problem). I tried emailing (actually a web form) again, mentioning the prior stuff. This time they reset my password, which was useless and required a lot of work to get things back the way I wanted them. Problem still not solved. A few months later, the guide problem was corrected, with NO evidence I had anything to do with it. I wrote and said it's working now. They messed up my account AGAIN. I wish their bots would learn to read. This is the same company that asked how many mushrooms I had on my dish (I know what a LNB is and it's NOT a mushroom). This stuff is one of the bigger reasons I don't use their service anymore. Also, I'd rather avoid dealing with customer service. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The truths which God revealed have been overthrown by the truths which man has discovered." [Lemuel K. Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_, 1911] |
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
pyotr filipivich wrote:
VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter to them. Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help "function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the error codes they provide. Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really just a small shell script. And not just at MS. I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its MVPs. -- Quote of the Week: "I never kill insects. If I see ants or spiders in the room, I pick them up and take them outside. Karma is everything." --Holly Valance Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit- | |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link. \ _ / ( ) |
#8
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
"VanguardLH" wrote
| Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical | responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few | keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general | troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue I'd agree with that. It's insulting. They go in circles with idiotic, formulaic interest: "Can anyone tell me how to do XYZ?" "Hi, and than you for using the Microsoft forums. We value your input. Before I go any further, could you confirm that what you want to know is how to do XYZ?" It's like some kind of Stepford nightmare. |
#9
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On 06/11/2018 07:00 AM, Mayayana wrote:
https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Only like twice in 24 or so years of doing this have I found them helpful. Oh, I found a word that gets past their censors: obnoxious. Chuckle. |
#10
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On 06/11/2018 09:59 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 6/11/2018 7:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote [in part]: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the response looks like it worked. In other words, Microsoft employees address problems in the forums with the same type of scripts that are used by many companies' customer support call centers. If you have a problem that is not addressed in the script, you are led very much astray. I have experienced this with Microsoft's call center, so why would anyone expect something different with the forums? Oh my goodness. That explains their useless responses on the forums. And they write you back and ask for compliments on how well the did too! |
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
Per VanguardLH:
Microsoft abandoned Usenet after a few years because they didn't control Usenet Phone companies have abandoned supplying UseNet feeds too - to save a buck, I guess. Everybody's trying to build their own Walled Garden and corporate suits all over the world are sitting up late at night trying to figure out to control the internet. Once Net Neutrality bites the big one we'll *really* see some "Progress" in that direction. But here-and-now, I mark the decline of UseNet as a major loss for internet users. -- Pete Cresswell |
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
T wrote:
On 06/11/2018 09:59 AM, David E. Ross wrote: On 6/11/2018 7:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote [in part]: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the response looks like it worked. In other words, Microsoft employees address problems in the forums with the same type of scripts that are used by many companies' customer support call centers. If you have a problem that is not addressed in the script, you are led very much astray. I have experienced this with Microsoft's call center, so why would anyone expect something different with the forums? Oh my goodness. That explains their useless responses on the forums. And they write you back and ask for compliments on how well the did too! When they first started doing that, those answerers didn't even stick around to find out how anything turned out. If there was some notion of "taking credit", it was well hidden at first. The Microsoft reward system is currently tuned for "evangelism", not "answering questions". So internally, if someone promotes a product in a successful way, they could be rewarded. It's hard to say how many biscuits they get for answering a question. https://wholefoodsmagazine.com/wp-co...og-696x464.jpg Paul |
#13
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On 6/11/2018 5:26 PM, Ant wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote: VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter to them. Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help "function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the error codes they provide. Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really just a small shell script. And not just at MS. I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its MVPs. Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup. Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ? -- == Later... Ron C -- |
#14
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
Ron C wrote:
On 6/11/2018 5:26 PM, Ant wrote: pyotr filipivich wrote: VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter to them. Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help "function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the error codes they provide. Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really just a small shell script. And not just at MS. I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its MVPs. Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup. Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ? There were people in the newsgroups, who actually used to "pursue" such an MVP title, like it was an "IT Cert". It used to "look good on your business card". Not everyone had a pecuniary interest, and gave freely of their time without expectation of anything, but a few were playing the angles. And vice-versa, there would be people in the user community "sniping" at them. Some particular MVPs had a "skill" for getting under the skin of the people asking questions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micros...e_Professional There was a little of everything. At the current time, the awards system focuses on "evangelism", rather than "helping people". This means that partners or "bloggers" stand to be rewarded as much as "question answerers". And it also means that a generation of former MVPs were swept out the door, to make room for a different kind of person entirely. While Microsoft thinks this will generate a "Guy Kawasaki" or a Bruce Tognazzini ("Tog on Design"), I don't think anyone really notable will come out of the Microsoft system. It's the era that's gone (the chance to make a difference), not the people. About all an evangelist can be today is a "sales person", a poofed-up suit with a sports car and set of golf clubs. And that reflects the maturity of the business. It's no longer "two guys in a garage building something". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist Paul |
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
In message , Mark Lloyd
writes: [] This stuff is one of the bigger reasons I don't use their service anymore. Also, I'd rather avoid dealing with customer service. I'd love to deal with it; however, I think it's some years since I encountered anything which was genuinely of that description, rather than just having that as its name. (In any company.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf [What's your guilty pleasure?] Why should you feel guilty about pleasure? - Michel Roux Jr in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013 |
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