Is it normal for a laptop to not provide 12V on SATA?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote:
123456789 wrote:

If I normally used the same cord with the same device
which was often I would put a dab of paint on the
upside of the plug. Never a problem plugging it
in after that...

If you normally have the same cord in the same socket,
why not just leave it in there?

Because using a tablet with the charger cord attached limits its
portability a bit...

On 04/02/2020 21:20, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 03 Feb 2020 20:39:17 -0000, David wrote:

On 03/02/2020 17:01, Commander Kinsey wrote:
DAVID!!!!* Which way up are your Mac ones?* I don't have any

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/produc...-to-usb-cable?


The 'trident' is on the side with the 'gap'.

HTH

Same way up as my PC USB cables.* But when you plug that into your Mac,
which way up does it go?* It's the socket on the computer I remember
being upside down on earlier Macs.* The trident (thinking of nuclear
subs?) went on the bottom on early Macs, but on the top in PCs.

The USB sockets on my iMac are vertical!

https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/m...-ipad-3606871/

--
David

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 01:50:26 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article op.0ffuqogbwdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:


Maybe the devices are too thin to be sensible. If something has a
requirement to plug it into something else, it has to have a fair sized
plug
that won't break with average daily use. If we have to have wafer thin
phones, then make them charge by induction or something. You just can't
fit
a sensible sized plug on a phone.

cables are used for much more than just charging, including copying
content to and from a device, firmware updates if it's bricked, mobile
app development, tethering and more.

All the non-charging things can be done over bluetooth or wireless, with
no socket required.

not true.

de-bricking needs a cable

It wouldn't if it was designed correctly. There's no reason a cable has better access than a wireless connection.

(larger devices often have an internal jtag,
which is not an option for a phone or tablet), firmware updates are
risky and tethering via usb can charge while tethering, which means the
battery won't go dead in the middle of a session.

But charging can be done via induction. And just how long do your firmware updates take that requires more than a battery full?

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 01:50:28 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article op.0ffuw1kkwdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

I hated the wider versions of micro USB that Samsung used. Got something
equally daft on my Fuji camera. Pins so small one speck of dust stops the
connection.

that's micro-usb 3, and far more than just samsung uses it.

No, I mean this one (left plug obviously):
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/260558...-1/s-l1000.jpg

that looks like micro-usb.

the wider micro-usb 3 is on the left, with the usual usb-a on the right:
https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3163871/usbmicrob.jpg
https://assets.tripplite.com/large-image/u326010-front-l.jpg

Nope, yours have dents in the middle.

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 01:50:29 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article op.0ffuskdjwdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

So how come I distinctly remember Macs having the USB connectors upside
down?

they don't.

They did back then. Maybe they saw sense. Or just happened to buy different
connectors.

they haven't changed, however, desktop macs generally have vertical usb
ports, so it's not top/bottom, but rather left/right.

I always knew which way to orientate them before I used Macs.

there are plenty of pcs that do the same thing.

there is no standard for which way a usb socket must be oriented.

that's one reason why usb-c was designed to be reversible.

A ****ing obvious thing to do. Yet when I suggested it 10 years ago people
though I was daft.

you weren't on the usb committee, so your suggestions went unheard.

I guess I was just surrounded by idiots then.

what's really daft is that usb has different connectors on each end.

there is the flat usb-a plug for the host and the square usb-b plug for
the peripheral, so not only do you have to get the orientation correct,
but you also need to use the correct end of the cable.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/318aRdzLOrL.jpg

usb-c is the same at both ends, so both the connector and the cable are
reversible, but unfortunately, there are some compatibility issues.

Maybe in the next century things will just work.

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 18:51:13 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 2/3/20 7:50 PM, nospam wrote:

[snip]

what's really daft is that usb has different connectors on each end.

there is the flat usb-a plug for the host and the square usb-b plug for
the peripheral, so not only do you have to get the orientation correct,
but you also need to use the correct end of the cable.

To prevent mistakes such as connecting two host ports together. Maybe
USB-C devices detect this and disable themselves.

But you can actually do that. I think you need a chip in the middle, but there was a thing you could buy that would "network" two PCs together with a USB cable. There's no reason USB ports couldn't detect the other end was also a host, and they could act accordingly. Just like ethernet cables - remember when you had to get a crossover cable to connect two PCs or two switches together? Then somebody came up with the bright idea of making the sockets auto-cross as necessary. Here's a bright idea I thought of decades ago - why not have all ethernet cables crossover? Then you wouldn't have to make the ports autoswitching.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/318aRdzLOrL.jpg

usb-c is the same at both ends, so both the connector and the cable are
reversible, but unfortunately, there are some compatibility issues.

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 18:59:06 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

what's really daft is that usb has different connectors on each end.

there is the flat usb-a plug for the host and the square usb-b plug for
the peripheral, so not only do you have to get the orientation correct,
but you also need to use the correct end of the cable.

To prevent mistakes such as connecting two host ports together. Maybe
USB-C devices detect this and disable themselves.

that's a design defect.

Designers and programmers are generally very very thick.

usb-c, thunderbolt, ethernet, firewire and others don't have a problem
with it.

In article op.0fhiqcc8wdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

I hated the wider versions of micro USB that Samsung used. Got
something
equally daft on my Fuji camera. Pins so small one speck of dust stops
the connection.

that's micro-usb 3, and far more than just samsung uses it.

No, I mean this one (left plug obviously):
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/260558...-1/s-l1000.jpg

that looks like micro-usb.

the wider micro-usb 3 is on the left, with the usual usb-a on the right:
https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3163871/usbmicrob.jpg
https://assets.tripplite.com/large-image/u326010-front-l.jpg

Nope, yours have dents in the middle.

it's not a dent.

micro-usb3 is actually two connectors fused together - the older
micro-usb plug plus the extra lines for usb3.

that makes it compatible with micro-usb 2 cables, which will result in
slower speeds.

In article op.0fhio8uvwdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

cables are used for much more than just charging, including copying
content to and from a device, firmware updates if it's bricked, mobile
app development, tethering and more.

All the non-charging things can be done over bluetooth or wireless, with
no socket required.

not true.

de-bricking needs a cable

It wouldn't if it was designed correctly. There's no reason a cable has
better access than a wireless connection.

yes there is. bricked means non-functional.

(larger devices often have an internal jtag,
which is not an option for a phone or tablet), firmware updates are
risky and tethering via usb can charge while tethering, which means the
battery won't go dead in the middle of a session.

But charging can be done via induction.

charging can, but not the other stuff.

And just how long do your
firmware updates take that requires more than a battery full?

the battery isn't the risk for firmware updates, but rather if the
wireless link flakes or if the update itself fails.

many devices strongly suggest to *not* update via wireless.

example:
https://www.tp-link.com/us/support/faq/688/
2)*Do NOT*upgrade the firmware via*wireless*connection
3)*Do NOT*turn off the power or cut down the Ethernet cable*
during upgrade process

the battery is an issue for tethering, which drains the battery fairly
quickly.

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 18:47:52 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

Maybe the mini-B was too thick for modern thin devices.

it was, but that doesn't excuse the awful design of micro-usb.


They do seem hard to align right. Maybe the increasing use of USB-C will
help.

BTW, there is such a thing as micro-A, although I've never seen it used.

there's actually quite a few variants.

https://static.makeuseof.com/wp-cont...B-cable-types-
500x500.jpg

https://static.makeuseof.com/wp-cont...es-500x500.jpg

there are also the usb 3 versions of the above.

there's even a reversible usb-a and micro-usb, although they don't work
that well.
https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/lear...-Reversible_US
B_A_to_C_Cable_2m-04.jpg

https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/lear...able_2m-04.jpg

https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/lear...-Reversible_US
B_A_to_Reversible_Micro-B_Cable_2m-02.jpg

https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/lear...able_2m-02.jpg

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 20:12:01 -0000, Paul wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 2/3/20 3:25 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

So how come I distinctly remember Macs having the USB connectors
upside down? I always knew which way to orientate them before I used
Macs.

Could the connectors have been mounted on the outer side of the board?

I don't want to open up mine. There's stuff on top of it, that
limits what I can do to it.

Mine is the one on the right here. This is a back view,
showing the connectors turned on their side with respect
to the planar (motherboard).

https://3894a8e173f5f8870a41-c88208a...6413255440.JPG

Christ that's old, I remember seeing one of those in 2003.

And those USBs are the correct way up.

( https://www.macstories.net/mac/the-power-mac-g4-line/ )

The funny thing is, that isn't exactly like mine, so there
must be yet another model number involved.

This shows the inside.

Here is a dual processor version of G4.

https://i.imgur.com/MvcaDH4.jpg

Mine is a single processor version.

The connectors as seen from the back, are turned so there is minimal
clearance between connectors. They would be "turned sideways"
with respect to the planar in the picture. I don't know
if they used separate PCBs for each one, or commissioned special
connectors for the purpose. I would have to open up the machine,
as the resolution isn't good enough to figure it out with pictures.

The item that's more blocky and metallic looking, to the left
of the other four, the connectors on the back have GbE and
RJ11 (dialup modem) on something closer to a conventional stack.

The USB in that case is USB 1.1. Jobs did that so Firewire 400
would "look like a champ". And this is an utter dismal failure,
as I don't happen to have any "Firewire 400 flash-based storage sticks".
And more than once, I wanted to use a USB stick, but it was
"unpossible". Too slow to work. How I got one disk
drive contents out of the machine, was using the GbE and
using FTP to another machine.

If people designed things to be good instead of to beat the competition, we'd be in space by now.

I only have a couple 3.5" non-Apple external Firewire enclosures.
Not nearly as convenient. And those happen to be limited to
120GB drives. Some of the controllers in those, happened to be
flashable to 48 bit LBA, but I got a couple crusty ones.
(I'm good at selecting the "loser chip version" of just about anything!)

I always take the common version, which meant never ever buying anything made by Apple.

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 18:39:50 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 2/3/20 3:25 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

So how come I distinctly remember Macs having the USB connectors upside
down? I always knew which way to orientate them before I used Macs.

Could the connectors have been mounted on the outer side of the board?

What on earth do you mean by the "outer side"?

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 21:15:45 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article op.0fhd65jtwdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

logos are not a reliable method. the logo is *usually* on the top but
not always, and some cords have no logo at all.

a much better method is look for the seam on the usb plug itself, which
almost always faces down when the usb ports are horizontal. for hosts
that have vertical usb ports, it varies, but is at least consistent for
all ports on the same host.

Seam? What do you mean by seam?

https://i.insider.com/5617d932dd08957f298b46a4?width=600&format=jpeg

The logo is easier to spot, and I cannot find any plug in my house without a logo.

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 21:15:49 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article op.0fhee0xuwdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

So back to the topic in hand, can't a microphone work without a hole?

no

I assume the speaker does as you never mentioned that hole.

the speaker uses the body of the phone.

So could the mic.

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 21:15:51 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article op.0fhd9zz9wdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

Prediction: Phones of the future will have no holes at all...

You mean we might one day actually have a phone you can use outside
without ruining it when it rains?

many smartphones are water resistant to ip67 or better, and rain won't
make a difference anyway.

Impossible if there's a hole.