7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition

"Ken Blake" wrote

| Yes. But their reputation lasted far beyond that
| time, for no reason. Some years ago a graphics shop
| sued Apple after they bought Macs and found the
| display's top setting was only 18-bit color/ 260K
| colors, yet the menu selection for that setting was
| marked "millions of colors". Leave it to Apple to
| use cute slang to hide sleaze. But if they'd said
| "tons of colors" they might have protected themselves
| from a lawsuit.
|
| If I knew about that suit, I had forgotten it. Just curious--who won?
| And how much did they win?
|
I don't know. It was quite a few years ago.

"Ken Springer" wrote

| Does this include the new support policy as stated he
|
|
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...cle-fact-sheet
|
I don't know. It requires javascript and I get
tired of chasing the cache version so I can
read MS webpages.

Do you mean the 18 month limit for Win10?
Yes, I guess that's a new thing. I wonder if even
they know how long they'll support Win10 if
they come out with something else. They're
trying to make it a service now, with obligatory
updates.

| Linux support is typically 18 months. When I want
| to install anything it needs numerous updates of system
| files. Ridiculous stuff like 6.143.213.77 isn't good enough.
| It has to be 6.143.213.88.
|
| What about the Linux distros that are "Long Term Support"?
|

I don't know. Dan mentioned that. I've never seen one.
I used to go and download openSuse or Mandriva and it
seemed they were generally supported for 18 months.

"Carlos E.R." wrote

| | Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the ? (euro) symbol,
for
| | instance.
| |
|
| Chr 128.
|
| You can see that it got back as a question mark. Problem proved :-p
|

Works for me. I don't know what all this talk is about IBM.
I think I have code page 1252.

https://www.charset.org/charsets/windows-1252

"Ken Blake" wrote

| I don't know how anybody else feels about your PGP signatures, but I'll
| tell you how I feel. I hate them.

Not one to mince words.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 08/12/2019 21.21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
[...]

In this case it's somewhat funny that - as Zaghadka explained -,
Eternal September - i.e. a *server* - choked on the non-ASCII long
hyphen as being invalid.

Either they are using ancient software, or they configured it to reject
such headers.


I use a "usenet proxy" on my computer, leafnode, on Linux. Old software.
I don't know if there is equivalent in Windows.

Yes, there is something similar for (MS-)Windows, Hamster. Hamster is
not only a "usenet proxy", but can also be used as a real News server
(and mail (POP/SMTP) proxy/server. Hamster is also old software.

I use Hamster (see my 'User-Agent:' header) ever since I am no longer
(professionally) managing real (INN) servers.

Anyway, it contains this
setting:

## If in your local Usenet hierarchy, posting unencoded 8-bit data in
## headers is condoned, uncomment this option to allow this. 8-bit data
## in headers is officially illegal, although the header character set
## may change to UTF-8 soon.
allow_8bit_headers = 1

The 'Subject:' header in the OP contained *encoded* 8-bit data, but
the encoding was done by *using* only 7-bit (US-ASCII) characters, so
"allow_8bit_headers = 1" would not be needed.

On 09/12/2019 20.43, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote

| | Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the ? (euro) symbol,
for
| | instance.
| |
|
| Chr 128.
|
| You can see that it got back as a question mark. Problem proved :-p
|

Works for me. I don't know what all this talk is about IBM.
I think I have code page 1252.

But you can not write the euro symbol in here, it doesn't work.


https://www.charset.org/charsets/windows-1252

IBM invented this stuff... The charset used by the BIOS is from them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1252

«Historically, the phrase "ANSI Code Page" was used in Windows to refer
to non-DOS encodings; the intention was that most of these would be ANSI
standards such as ISO-8859-1. Even though Windows-1252 was the first and
by far most popular code page named so in Microsoft Windows parlance,
the *code page has never been an ANSI standard*. Microsoft explains,
"The term ANSI as used to signify Windows code pages is a historical
reference, but is nowadays a misnomer that continues to persist in the
Windows community."[4]

In LaTeX packages, CP-1252 is referred to as "ansinew".»


--
Cheers, Carlos.

Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote

| Does this include the new support policy as stated he
|
|
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...cle-fact-sheet
|
I don't know. It requires javascript and I get
tired of chasing the cache version so I can
read MS webpages.

Do you mean the 18 month limit for Win10?
Yes, I guess that's a new thing. I wonder if even
they know how long they'll support Win10 if
they come out with something else. They're
trying to make it a service now, with obligatory
updates.

| Linux support is typically 18 months. When I want
| to install anything it needs numerous updates of system
| files. Ridiculous stuff like 6.143.213.77 isn't good enough.
| It has to be 6.143.213.88.
|
| What about the Linux distros that are "Long Term Support"?
|

I don't know. Dan mentioned that. I've never seen one.
I used to go and download openSuse or Mandriva and it
seemed they were generally supported for 18 months.

Sometimes they draw pretty pictures of the lifecycle.

https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle

And others leave you guessing.

https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Pse..._release_model

Paul

On 09/12/2019 19.20, Rene Lamontagne wrote:



It really does not bother me but I am always curious as to what it
means, Surely it must serve a purpose.

It is a PGP signature, a cryptographical system that proves that *he*
wrote that post and it was not altered.

Why use that system on Usenet, I'm not sure.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Ken Blake wrote:
On 12/9/2019 10:55 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:
On 12/9/2019 10:11 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Ken Blake wrote:
On 12/9/2019 6:01 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

snip


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl3uRY wACgkQjhHd8xJ5
ooFuoQf9Gm6+HdDVp5FUcJIlcm8riecPzIq4r6IEZEmfejYII9 uq2WVvxz1E8DC/
qHzoGpJyHmzxKn/JuDwP34y5HxYE/BALC5V52B6ZT6NG+hHLeF7Lj0NE8Ddo2uQS
xBLNecuVT2avDjgb9Ang/I9vUXpfd3PaKdHHY6Z7IPcjfYOk3NG7lXPt7Ho2Vm/j
CBoni6Q/O7kw9lxzP20AMvGb+jIin7eHrdJU8+SydlhzvaUsiBFsSRFVGO O/Ojkd
A2do+2PAn2jcjzJYI4t7e11L0udrqNxglJQ4pc9rBwLdngHuPQ I1M6jY3qBtB/jy
ltCCZsUps01BTGZEPXGtY0VVeIUIiQ==
=BAg7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


I don't know how anybody else feels about your PGP signatures, but
I'll tell you how I feel. I hate them. They add nothing to your
posts and just clutters them up. So I'd like to suggest that you
stop incorporating them in your messages.

Your request has been noted.

Please feel free to killfile me if the 12 lines are causing you that
much heartache.


I already felt free to killfile you. I didn't want to, because your
posts are often valuable. And they don't cause me anything like
heartache. That's why I tried to ask politely, rather than trying to
castigate you. I made a suggestion, rather than insisting.

I took the "I suggest you take it off" bit the wrong way then.


OK, thanks for understanding now. Perhaps I didn't do as good a job of
being polite as I meant to.

You can use enigmail plugin, but unfortunately it doesn't
have zero overhead. It leaves a decoration bar which eats more
vertical pane space in Thunderbird. And it leaves some "bold" lines in the
message body, so doesn't entirely remove all traces of PGP signing.
The bold text is about as annoying as a signature.

And to top it off, the plugin arch of Thunderbird is changing
soon, and Enigmail is going to get rolled into Thunderbird
(using something other than openpgp), so any solution you
might boil in a pot today, will be "blown away soon" and
you'd have to design another plugin. Enigmail for Thunderbird
is a .xpi and those won't be supported past TB68.

Paul

On 09/12/2019 21.28, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 08/12/2019 21.21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
[...]

In this case it's somewhat funny that - as Zaghadka explained -,
Eternal September - i.e. a *server* - choked on the non-ASCII long
hyphen as being invalid.

Either they are using ancient software, or they configured it to reject
such headers.


I use a "usenet proxy" on my computer, leafnode, on Linux. Old software.
I don't know if there is equivalent in Windows.

Yes, there is something similar for (MS-)Windows, Hamster. Hamster is
not only a "usenet proxy", but can also be used as a real News server
(and mail (POP/SMTP) proxy/server. Hamster is also old software.

I use Hamster (see my 'User-Agent:' header) ever since I am no longer
(professionally) managing real (INN) servers.

Interesting! :-)


Anyway, it contains this
setting:

## If in your local Usenet hierarchy, posting unencoded 8-bit data in
## headers is condoned, uncomment this option to allow this. 8-bit data
## in headers is officially illegal, although the header character set
## may change to UTF-8 soon.
allow_8bit_headers = 1

The 'Subject:' header in the OP contained *encoded* 8-bit data, but
the encoding was done by *using* only 7-bit (US-ASCII) characters, so
"allow_8bit_headers = 1" would not be needed.

Right.

It used this:

]
] Subject:
=?UTF-8?Q?7_Best_Alternatives_To_Microsoft_Office_Suite_ =e2=80=94_2?=
] =?UTF-8?Q?019_Edition?=



Probably using the "new" standard for "Subject" lines in email.
Fortunately old software seems transparent to it, and client software
such as Thunderbird renders it correctly. But not that Eternal September
server.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2019-12-09 11:55 a.m., Dan Purgert wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:
On 12/9/2019 10:11 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Ken Blake wrote:
On 12/9/2019 6:01 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

snip


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl3uRY wACgkQjhHd8xJ5
ooFuoQf9Gm6+HdDVp5FUcJIlcm8riecPzIq4r6IEZEmfejYII9 uq2WVvxz1E8DC/
qHzoGpJyHmzxKn/JuDwP34y5HxYE/BALC5V52B6ZT6NG+hHLeF7Lj0NE8Ddo2uQS
xBLNecuVT2avDjgb9Ang/I9vUXpfd3PaKdHHY6Z7IPcjfYOk3NG7lXPt7Ho2Vm/j
CBoni6Q/O7kw9lxzP20AMvGb+jIin7eHrdJU8+SydlhzvaUsiBFsSRFVGO O/Ojkd
A2do+2PAn2jcjzJYI4t7e11L0udrqNxglJQ4pc9rBwLdngHuPQ I1M6jY3qBtB/jy
ltCCZsUps01BTGZEPXGtY0VVeIUIiQ==
=BAg7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


I don't know how anybody else feels about your PGP signatures, but
I'll
tell you how I feel. I hate them. They add nothing to your posts and
just clutters them up. So I'd like to suggest that you stop
incorporating them in your messages.

Your request has been noted.

Please feel free to killfile me if the 12 lines are causing you that
much heartache.


I already felt free to killfile you. I didn't want to, because your
posts are often valuable. And they don't cause me anything like
heartache. That's why I tried to ask politely, rather than trying to
castigate you. I made a suggestion, rather than insisting.

I took the "I suggest you take it off" bit the wrong way then.

This is the only group where anyone's made comment about it; I'll try to
remember.




It really does not bother me but I am always curious as to what it
means, Surely it must serve a purpose.

Thanks Rene


It means a message can be signed by the purported author
of a message. Then, when the message is received by the
recipient, the recipient email client downloads the
"public key" for the named user, and the public key
is used to verify the message is "authentic".

This stops the NSA from crafting a "fake Dan" message,
with a request to leave a million Bitcoins in a sock in
Central Park.

Some people are the targets of forgery efforts, and
when a lot of people "fake" their messages, the only
resort is to start signing the messages with a key
for authenticity. Any recipient then needs to add the
Enigmail plugin (unconfigured) to their copy of
Thunderbird, for Enigmail to detect the signing section,
download the public key, and put up an indicator that
the message is genuine.

If Dans private key is stolen (someone hacks into Dans
machine), then the value of signing is lost.

Paul

On 12/9/2019 1:53 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 09/12/2019 20.43, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote

| | Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the ? (euro) symbol,
for
| | instance.
| |
|
| Chr 128.
|
| You can see that it got back as a question mark. Problem proved :-p
|

Works for me. I don't know what all this talk is about IBM.
I think I have code page 1252.

But you can not write the euro symbol in here, it doesn't work.


I'm not sure what you mean by "in here," but I can write it here in this
message: €


Whether or not you can see it is another matter.

Ken


https://www.charset.org/charsets/windows-1252

IBM invented this stuff... The charset used by the BIOS is from them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1252

«Historically, the phrase "ANSI Code Page" was used in Windows to refer
to non-DOS encodings; the intention was that most of these would be ANSI
standards such as ISO-8859-1. Even though Windows-1252 was the first and
by far most popular code page named so in Microsoft Windows parlance,
the *code page has never been an ANSI standard*. Microsoft explains,
"The term ANSI as used to signify Windows code pages is a historical
reference, but is nowadays a misnomer that continues to persist in the
Windows community."[4]

In LaTeX packages, CP-1252 is referred to as "ansinew".»




--
Ken

On 09/12/2019 21:12, Ken Blake wrote:
On 12/9/2019 1:53 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 09/12/2019 20.43, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote

| | Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the ? (euro)
symbol, for
| | instance.
| |
|
| Chr 128.
|
| You can see that it got back as a question mark. Problem proved :-p
|

Â*Â* Works for me. I don't know what all this talk is about IBM.
I think I have code page 1252.

But you can not write the euro symbol in here, it doesn't work.


I'm not sure what you mean by "in here," but I can write it here in this
message: €


Whether or not you can see it is another matter.


I can see it, Ken ..... and I raise you 2€ ;-)

On 09/12/2019 22.04, Paul wrote:
And to top it off, the plugin arch of Thunderbird is changing
soon, and Enigmail is going to get rolled into Thunderbird
(using something other than openpgp), so any solution you
might boil in a pot today, will be "blown away soon" and
you'd have to design another plugin. Enigmail for Thunderbird
is a .xpi and those won't be supported past TB68.

Enigmail is currently broken, at least for me and others. I can not sign
using MIME, it claims the key is not found.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2019-12-09 3:11 p.m., Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2019-12-09 11:55 a.m., Dan Purgert wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:
On 12/9/2019 10:11 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Ken Blake wrote:
On 12/9/2019 6:01 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

snip


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl3uRY wACgkQjhHd8xJ5
ooFuoQf9Gm6+HdDVp5FUcJIlcm8riecPzIq4r6IEZEmfejYII9 uq2WVvxz1E8DC/
qHzoGpJyHmzxKn/JuDwP34y5HxYE/BALC5V52B6ZT6NG+hHLeF7Lj0NE8Ddo2uQS
xBLNecuVT2avDjgb9Ang/I9vUXpfd3PaKdHHY6Z7IPcjfYOk3NG7lXPt7Ho2Vm/j
CBoni6Q/O7kw9lxzP20AMvGb+jIin7eHrdJU8+SydlhzvaUsiBFsSRFVGO O/Ojkd
A2do+2PAn2jcjzJYI4t7e11L0udrqNxglJQ4pc9rBwLdngHuPQ I1M6jY3qBtB/jy
ltCCZsUps01BTGZEPXGtY0VVeIUIiQ==
=BAg7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


I don't know how anybody else feels about your PGP signatures, but
I'll
tell you how I feel. I hate them. They add nothing to your posts and
just clutters them up. So I'd like to suggest that you stop
incorporating them in your messages.

Your request has been noted.

Please feel free to killfile me if the 12 lines are causing you that
much heartache.


I already felt free to killfile you. I didn't want to, because your
posts are often valuable. And they don't cause me anything like
heartache. That's why I tried to ask politely, rather than trying to
castigate you. I made a suggestion, rather than insisting.

I took the "I suggest you take it off" bit the wrong way then.

This is the only group where anyone's made comment about it; I'll try to
remember.




It really does not bother me but I am always curious as to what it
means, Surely it must serve a purpose.

Thanks Rene


It means a message can be signed by the purported author
of a message. Then, when the message is received by the
recipient, the recipient email client downloads the
"public key" for the named user, and the public key
is used to verify the message is "authentic".

This stops the NSA from crafting a "fake Dan" message,
with a request to leave a million Bitcoins in a sock in
Central Park.

Some people are the targets of forgery efforts, and
when a lot of people "fake" their messages, the only
resort is to start signing the messages with a key
for authenticity. Any recipient then needs to add the
Enigmail plugin (unconfigured) to their copy of
Thunderbird, for Enigmail to detect the signing section,
download the public key, and put up an indicator that
the message is genuine.

If Dans private key is stolen (someone hacks into Dans
machine), then the value of signing is lost.

Â*Â* Paul

Thanks for the explanation Paul, Now that I see it serves a purpose I no
longer have to Think about it.

Rene