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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition



 
 
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  #256  
Old December 9th 19, 01:19 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,906
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

In article , Dan Purgert
wrote:

| Didn't desktop publishing get it's start with Macs?
|

Probably. And graphics. But that was way back when Apple


"Desktop Publishing" being a graphical environment? I think Xerox or
Sun was "first" in that regard. Apple just took it away from them
pretty quick (and the whole "IBM (clone) with MS Windows" thing didn't
really help anyone out).


there was nothing to take away.

although the xerox star did exist, it was very expensive, very slow,
not particularly easy to use, only ran xerox apps (which were very
few), only worked with xerox printers and did not sell well. most
people never heard of it. i used to use one.

the mac is what put desktop publishing on the map. it was far more
affordable than the star (by an order of magnitude), faster (even the
original) and far more open. third parties could easily write whatever
apps they wanted, and did, notably adobe, aldus and quark for desktop
publishing, along with countless others. macs could easily output
postscript, which could drive anything from a laserwriter printer to
high end systems, or print to a less expensive dot-matrix printer with
the same page layout, but with a lot lower resolution.

was ahead of Windows with graphics. They ended up having
a reputation for being superior for a long time. Long after


IIRC, the reputation was well earned -- the M68k and later PPC chips had
better pipelines when it came to graphics processing than the Intel x86
processors of the day.


very much so, along with the os itself which made it very easy to write
graphics software (as well as other software).

photoshop began on the mac. it wasn't until a few years later that it
appeared on windows.

want their own control. Macs never became popular until
there was a market for casual entertainment use of
computers.


I recall them being pretty popular when I was a kid -- couldn't find a
school around here that didn't have apple ]['s in the computer lab.


sure, but those aren't macs.

macs were never big in schools, until recently, that is.
Ads
  #257  
Old December 9th 19, 01:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,046
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On 09/12/2019 14.01, Dan Purgert wrote:
Mayayana wrote:
"Paul" wrote


| Though I think your Spanish ANSI would
| probably work OK for me. Tilde, for example, is in the
| English ANSI system. Presumably they had the sense to
| use the same character codes in all Euro ANSI codepages.
|
| That's because "we English" pave over the language of
| other people. That's how, magically, everything we
| type "can be represented in ASCII".


No. What I mean is that the basic English codepage includes
most Euro characters in the 128+ range.


Sure, but that's not typically considered to be the "ASCII" characterset
anymore. At least as I recall, "ASCII" is only the characters contained
in the lower 128 bits (0x00 to 0x7f) of the larger "ANSI English"
character set (well, in Windows as codepage 1250 or something. As I
recall, ANSI never released anything after the draft -- it got rolled
into ISO8859)


Correct.

And the upper part, the 8 bit part, varies per the codepage.

When one bought an IBM PC or clone in the USA, and one saw that you
could write accented letters such as áé*óú or ñ or Ñ, with many (not
all) of the European special letters, that is codepage 437. Just one of
the many codepages available. On each country, one had to select the
correct codepage for the country.

That is, the 127 upper chars are variable in 8 bit ascii, have different
"drawings". And there is usually no indication in the text file what
codepage they are actually using.

Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the € (euro) symbol, for
instance.

The mentality of thinking that ascii is good enough conducts to
documents and software that translates badly or with difficulty, that
can be used only in one country.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #258  
Old December 9th 19, 01:27 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
David
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Posts: 113
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On 09/12/2019 12:33, Paul wrote:
David wrote:
On 09/12/2019 04:46, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/8/19 9:15 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ken Springer
wrote:

Have you ever tried voice input?* It's something I've wanted to
try for
a long time, but it's low on the priority list.* The coupe times
I've
tried it, I've found it difficult to find a list of the voice
commands
available to the user.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised...

3 people thought they knew what I was talking about.* None did.

don't keep everyone in suspense. explain what you were talking about.

You're smart, you figure it out.

i'm not interested in playing your games.

Nor I, yours.


A civil conversation is worth its weight in gold!

Do try it, Ken.


It should be pretty obvious by now, you're "on the short leash".


I had to look that up! ;-)

It's got nothing to do with being civil.


You may be mistaken about that, Paul. Ken wasn't being civil with
'nospam' either.

We've already been through umpteen examples of you
going to a forum and getting banned. Where is the
entertainment value in that ???


Do you think it would be better to re-invent myself under another name,
use a different newsserver and, perhaps, use a Linux OS?

Don't expect anyone else to enjoy such antics.


I appreciate you taking the trouble to respond, Paul.

Thank you! :-D
  #259  
Old December 9th 19, 02:06 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Shadow
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Posts: 1,553
Default Linux user advises Windows newbies! (was - 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition)

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 11:49:11 +0000, David
wrote:

On 09/12/2019 01:21, Beauregard T. Shagnasty - still wriggling!
David wrote:

Amazing what happens when the truth is told!


It certainly is. You should start sometime soon.

[rest not worthy of a reply]


Other readers of Usenet groups will eventually question *WHY* you,
someone who doesn't ever use Microsoft Windows, deems it ethical to
INSTRUCT newbies in the mysteries of one of /the/ most vulnerable
operating systems on the planet.

=

*WHY* does a Linux aficionado promote a website discussing Windows?

You don't even HIDE the fact that you are doing it! www.tekrider.net

I *DO* tell the truth.


You KNOW the truth. But you ALWAYS choose to *LIE*.
Those pages are from way back when he used Windows(or helped
someone with Windows, not anyone's business).

http://www.tekrider.net/general/wintip01.php

File last changed 15 April 2009

It not been altered in OVER 10 years. The text refers to
programs updated in 2005. That has been explained to you so many
times, it's getting boring, His PRIVATE site, his call.

Now it's *YOUR* turn.


This page has to be updated frequently though, since the
cyber-criminal nymshifts all the time:

https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php

(in fact, it already need updating, there are 4 new #FAKE_NYMS
missing).

Google "David Brooks Devon".
NEVER click on any link he posts and NEVER give any personal
information. He WILL attempt to blackmail you.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #260  
Old December 9th 19, 02:10 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Shadow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,553
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 10:20:44 +0000, David
wrote:

A civil conversation is worth its weight in gold!


You STILL have not contributed to the thread YOU started.
Do you even know what "civil" means?
OT not up so people "get to know you better".

---------------
BD: I want people to "get to know me better. I have nothing to
hide".
I'm always here to help, this page was put up at BD's request,
rather, he said "Do it *NOW*!":

http://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php

63 confirmed #FAKE_NYMS, most used in cybercrimes!
Google "David Brooks Devon"
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #261  
Old December 9th 19, 02:11 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,878
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

"Dan Purgert" wrote

| I explored it a fair amount but ended up feeling that
| it was a big time sucker. Everything changes. Everything
| requires tweaking.

| So, your basic progression of "new stuff changes". I mean, it's not like
| Windows behaves the same as XP (or 7) these days.
|
Big difference. Microsoft is religious about backward
compatibility. They provide support for 10 years and
lots of docs. (Though the end-user docs are pretty bad.)
I'm writing this on XP with OE6. Most software still works
on XP. OE was just a half-baked afterthough. A default
email program. Yet OE6 is arguably better than current
products despite being 18 years old. The program folder
is 4 MB. TBird is 90 MB, stuffed with dotnet crap, but no
help file in sight. Even the Mozilla people don't seem to
have full docs for things like prefs.

It's not difficult to write software that runs on
all Windows versions -- backward and forward. That's
like being able to write a program for current Linux and
have it work on RedHat 4 seamlessly, with no additional
support files or adjustments needed.

So, yes, stuff changes in Windows. Especially going
from XP to Vista. That was a big jump. But the API
didn't change. It was just added to. MS have to offer
that kind of support because business requires it.
Meanwhile, WINE took 20 years to get to v. 1, with
updates every 10 days. It was a training camp for
college students, not a professional piece of software.
GIMP is similar. And that pretty much covers Linux
software for people who are not programmers or scientists.

Linux support is typically 18 months. When I want
to install anything it needs numerous updates of system
files. Ridiculous stuff like 6.143.213.77 isn't good enough.
It has to be 6.143.213.88.

Docs? If you're lucky it's a man page. Ask the programmer
why there are no docs. The answer will probably be something
like, "I don't like to write." They say that with diffident pride:
"I'm a programmer, not a lackey!"

The programmer is a 35
year old teenager who's anxious to get back to his video
game where he's killed 1,723 bad guys since last Tuesday
and he's hoping to break his own record of 1,947 killed by
tomorrow. He's going to have to stay up all night eating
candybars and ramen to pull it off. And you want docs?!
Where's your sense of priorities, man?!

I actually came across something in WINE at one point
suggesting that programmers should put comments into
their code in a particular format. Those could later be
auto-converted to a help file without having to actually
write a help file. Any software sold for money has to be
far more dependable and complete than that.

| Nothing is simple because the people who use it like to feel like
| coding commandos.
|
| I haven't run into that myself ... maybe I got lucky.
|

And you don't use console windows? Or end up digging
down into /etc to change a program setting? Or maybe you
just regard that as simple? In Windows it's been almost
completely unnecessary to open console windows since
about 1995. The last time I did it was to swap out the HAL
file from single core to multi-core version.

| So everyone brags about using a "shell", by which they mean a console
| window where they run DOS-esque commands.
|
| Which can be the "easier" approach (in terms of less effort on your
| part) than using a GUI.

Yes. Exactly the answer I'd expect from a Linux fan.
It can be highly efficient as a scripting system, to do
batch operations, but for normal computer use -- to
copy a file, find system info, read help, list directory
contents, and so on -- it makes no sense.

| Even the OS itself gets very limited support.
|
| This certainly depends on the distro you choose. Some are better than
| others -- although if you're looking for "professional" support, that's
| pretty much limited to Red Hat.
|
I don't mean personal support. I mean supporting
their own product, so that necessary patches are
available and software will run on it for many years,
as with Windows. Many programmers use end of OS
support as an excuse to end their support, so if a
Linux version is only supported officially for 18 months
then whatever you set up initially is "all she wrote".
Once it no longer serves you'll have to start all over.

| | Didn't desktop publishing get it's start with Macs?

| Probably. And graphics. But that was way back when Apple
|
| "Desktop Publishing" being a graphical environment? I think Xerox or
| Sun was "first" in that regard. Apple just took it away from them
| pretty quick (and the whole "IBM (clone) with MS Windows" thing didn't
| really help anyone out).
|
He means being able to create your own printed
documents without having to paste-up photostat copy.
As you may know, not so long ago the only way to
print other than a typewriter was to order the text in
the desired font as a photostat. The people doing that
would set the lead characters, print it, and take a picture.
They'd send you the picture. You would then cut that
up with a razor blade and stick the words down on a
backing with rubber cement. Once done, you'd send
the whole thing to the printer. (I know this because I did
a bit of paste-up when I was young.)

Desktop publishing was the new ability to actually
print a finished product yourself. With high end
equipment people could print a professional, finished
product and cut the photostat people, the typesetters,
and the printers out of the picture. Remember those early
fliers stapled to telephone poles, in futuristic,
blocky fonts in the 80s? That was people with computers
showing off that they could print on a piece of paper:

"Cat missing. Black and white. Very cute. Answers to Frisky."
Below that would be a "picture" of a cat, composed of
printed squares, like an image from an early video game.

Since Mac had GUI first I suspect they also had
desktop publishing first. But I didn't have a computer back
then. If they hadn't developed an easy GUI I probably
still wouldn't have a computer. I've never needed to do
word processing for work so I never had a use for DOS.

| was ahead of Windows with graphics. They ended up having
| a reputation for being superior for a long time. Long after
|
| IIRC, the reputation was well earned -- the M68k and later PPC chips had
| better pipelines when it came to graphics processing than the Intel x86
| processors of the day.
|
Yes. But their reputation lasted far beyond that
time, for no reason. Some years ago a graphics shop
sued Apple after they bought Macs and found the
display's top setting was only 18-bit color/ 260K
colors, yet the menu selection for that setting was
marked "millions of colors". Leave it to Apple to
use cute slang to hide sleaze. But if they'd said
"tons of colors" they might have protected themselves
from a lawsuit.


  #262  
Old December 9th 19, 02:13 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,878
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

"Ken Springer" wrote

| i'm not interested in playing your games.
|
| Nor I, yours.
|
Ha ha. You just did. Yes, suh!


  #263  
Old December 9th 19, 02:18 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Shadow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,553
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 13:27:55 +0000, David
wrote:

It should be pretty obvious by now, you're "on the short leash".


I had to look that up!


Nobody cares

It's got nothing to do with being civil.


You may be mistaken about that, Paul. redacted wasn't being civil with
redacted either.


Nobody cares.

We've already been through umpteen examples of you
going to a forum and getting banned. Where is the
entertainment value in that ???


Do you think it would be better to re-invent myself under another name,
use a different newsserver and, perhaps, use a Linux OS?


You've already done that so many times it's become boring.

Don't expect anyone else to enjoy such antics.


I appreciate you taking the trouble to respond, Paul.


Translation: "You're on my *bad guy* list. I WILL stalk you.
It's what I do."

---------------
BD: I want people to "get to know me better. I have nothing to
hide".
I'm always here to help, this page was put up at BD's request,
rather, he said "Do it *NOW*!":

http://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php

63 confirmed #FAKE_NYMS, most used in cybercrimes!
Google "David Brooks Devon"
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #264  
Old December 9th 19, 02:40 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,878
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

"Carlos E.R." wrote

| | Not in the ANSI, it is in the IBMPC charset, 437. A bit different.
| |
|
| Chr 209 and 241 in English codepage are N and n
| with tilde.
|
| I'm not saying that. I say that the so called ANSI that contains some
| European chars is not ANSI, but the IBM-PC version of it, charset 437,
| with 8 bits.
|

Yes. We seem to have a conflict in terminology. On
Windows, ANSI is the system of 8-bit charsets using
codepages. Any text file on Windows is actually ANSI,
using 1 byte per character, not ASCII. The actual
characters displayed will be decided by the local
codepage. Even though most or all will be ASCII-
conforming.

If I write chr
149 into a text file it will show as a bullet, because
that text file is being read as ANSI text with the English
codepage. There's nothing like a ban on using the high bit.
All non-unicode text is 8-bit ANSI text.

If I enter chr 209 it will show as N with tilde.
And when I save that file from Notepad the
default option will be "ANSI". If I send that file to a Russian
or Turk they'll probably see different characters because
the characters for their language are using part of the
post-ASCII byte value range. But I suspect that on
your Spanish computer you'd see what I see, because
Spanish characters and other Euro characters can all
fit into a single ANSI charset.

Similarly, if you look up the docs for Win32 API conversion
functions like WideCharToMultiByte, you'll see the conversion
options are between unicode and ANSI. The default is ANSI
in the local codepage.

So that's another area where UTF-8 can mess things
up unnecessarily on an English-codepage computer. If
I happen to have text files with high-byte characters
they'll be corrupted as UTF-8.


  #265  
Old December 9th 19, 02:41 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Beauregard T. Shagnasty[_2_]
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Posts: 137
Default Linux user advises Windows newbies! (was - 7 Best AlternativesTo Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition)

David the Lying Stalker of Devon wrote:

On 09/12/2019 01:21, Beauregard T. Shagnasty - still wriggling!
David the Liar of Devon wrote:
Amazing what happens when the truth is told!


It certainly is. You should start sometime soon.

[rest not worthy of a reply]


Other readers of Usenet groups will ...


...see your constant lying and stalking.

*WHY* does a Linux aficionado promote a website discussing Windows?


You are the one who is promoting it. Don't you realize that?

--
-bts
  #266  
Old December 9th 19, 02:45 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Libor Striz[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition

David Wrote in message:r
According to the article .....Here are the MS Office alternatives at a glance:Google DocsLibreOfficeOffice OnlineApple iWorkWPS OfficeCalligra OfficeDropBox PaperDetails he https://fossbytes.com/best-alternati...t-office/Would you recommend one of the above for use with Windows 10 or would you suggest Open Office? https://www.openoffice.orgTIA


Libre Office Is AFAIK a more advanced/more intensively developed
fork of OpenOffice.

--
Poutnik ( the Wanderer )
  #267  
Old December 9th 19, 02:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,878
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

"Carlos E.R." wrote

| Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the ? (euro) symbol, for
| instance.
|

Chr 128.


  #268  
Old December 9th 19, 02:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,878
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

"Dan Purgert" wrote

| No. What I mean is that the basic English codepage includes
| most Euro characters in the 128+ range.
|
| Sure, but that's not typically considered to be the "ASCII" characterset
| anymore. At least as I recall, "ASCII" is only the characters contained
| in the lower 128 bits (0x00 to 0x7f) of the larger "ANSI English"
| character set (well, in Windows as codepage 1250 or something. As I
| recall, ANSI never released anything after the draft -- it got rolled
| into ISO8859)
|

I think there's an issue of terminology. I just
posted an explanation to Carlos. The problem seems
to be that few people know all the technical details
and history. On Windows, there's no ASCII. It's all
ANSI. Each character is a byte, not 7-bit. If you
use any character above 127 it displays according
to the local codepage.

BUT, in most cases in English people are only using
up to byte 127, so their text files are valid ASCII,
valid ANSI with any codepage, and valid UTF-8.

But even Microsoft confuses things. They refer
to ANSI in the API and in the GUI when referencing
non-unicode, yet in the Windows scripting docs
they mistakenly refer to ASCII. Apparently the
people writing the docs didn't know the difference!


  #269  
Old December 9th 19, 03:11 PM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,046
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On 09/12/2019 15.40, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote

| | Not in the ANSI, it is in the IBMPC charset, 437. A bit different.
| |
|
| Chr 209 and 241 in English codepage are N and n
| with tilde.
|
| I'm not saying that. I say that the so called ANSI that contains some
| European chars is not ANSI, but the IBM-PC version of it, charset 437,
| with 8 bits.
|

Yes. We seem to have a conflict in terminology. On
Windows, ANSI is the system of 8-bit charsets using
codepages. Any text file on Windows is actually ANSI,
using 1 byte per character, not ASCII. The actual
characters displayed will be decided by the local
codepage. Even though most or all will be ASCII-
conforming.

If I write chr
149 into a text file it will show as a bullet, because
that text file is being read as ANSI text with the English
codepage. There's nothing like a ban on using the high bit.
All non-unicode text is 8-bit ANSI text.

If I enter chr 209 it will show as N with tilde.
And when I save that file from Notepad the
default option will be "ANSI". If I send that file to a Russian
or Turk they'll probably see different characters because
the characters for their language are using part of the
post-ASCII byte value range. But I suspect that on
your Spanish computer you'd see what I see, because
Spanish characters and other Euro characters can all
fit into a single ANSI charset.


No, Spain uses the 850 charset.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #270  
Old December 9th 19, 03:18 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,046
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On 09/12/2019 15.46, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote

| Thar "basic English codepage" does not include the ? (euro) symbol, for
| instance.
|

Chr 128.


You can see that it got back as a question mark. Problem proved :-p

chr 128 in the "basic English codepage", 437, looks like the combination
of a "C" with a ",", it is not the Euro symbol. See it he

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_437

«Code page 437 is the character set of the original IBM PC (personal
computer). It is also known as CP437, OEM-US, OEM 437,[1] PC-8,[2] or
DOS Latin US.[3] The set includes all printable ASCII characters,
extended codes for accented letters (diacritics), some Greek letters,
icons, and line-drawing symbols. It is sometimes referred to as the "OEM
font" or "high ASCII", or as "extended ASCII"[2] (one of many mutually
incompatible ASCII extensions).

This character set remains the primary font in the core of any EGA and
VGA-compatible graphics card. Text shown when a PC reboots, before any
other font can be loaded from a storage medium, typically is rendered in
this character set.[nb 1] Many file formats developed at the time of the
IBM PC are based on code page 437 as well.»


--
Cheers, Carlos.
 




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