Toshiba W-7 went dark

On 23/03/2018 05:26, Mike Easter wrote:
You don't have the Toshiba recovery disks which could have been made
back when Windows was operational,
A W7 installation, Disc (or USB-drive using Rufus), can be used equally
as well as a Recovery, Disc (or USB-drive using Rufus). The difference
is that an Installation Disc (etc.) take up more space on, DVD (or USB
drive using Rufus).

nor the optional Toshiba drive disks for your hardware which the intact install could've provided.

Drivers are available from Toshiba;
https://support.toshiba.com/support/...eeText=2743964
(Check exact Mode)

So, likely the best that you can do with what you have is to install
Win7 from available general media and/but I don't know your experience
with installing Windows and finding drivers for your hardware if it
doesn't happen 'automatically'.

In message , HB writes:

"Mike Easter" wrote in message
...
Satellite C655D-S5063
https://support.toshiba.com/support/...743964&osId=31

User's Guide for Satellite C640/C650 Series

p.61 - Recovering to out-of-box state (recommended recovery method)

- connect to power source
- computer turned off
- turn on computer while holding the 0 (zero) key
- Tosh Recovery Wizard warning screen
- may have option to choose between 32 & 64 bit Win7

Tried that. All I get is a black screen with that loud very annoying noise.
The computer manufacturers never tell you what to do when their advice
doesn't work.

Was that a noise from the speakers, or a mechanical noise from the disc
drive?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you can't construct a coherent argument for the other side, you probably
don't understand your own opinion. - Scott Adams, 2015

In message , HB writes:

"Patrick" wrote in message
news

I also have suspicion that the CMOS-battery might be the/a cause of
problem/s, it is thus that I searched on Google for how to replace said
CMOS-battery on the Toshiba laptop that I suspect that you have, I thus
came up with the below link that illustrates/explains how to replace the
CMOS-battery on said machine. Perhaps you would care to look there and
maybe verify if you think that it looks like your Toshiba.


http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptop...650-C655/disas
semble-toshiba-laptop-1.htm

I wouldn't try and attempt something like this unless I could watch someone
else do it. You literally have to almost dismantle the whole laptop to get
to it. But yes, that's the one I have.

FWIW: although I agree it's _possible_, I haven't had a computer fail
due to the CMOS cell for a long time (if ever), for a computer that is
actually in use; the clock and other circuitry that the cell powers is
usually powered by the main power supply, usually even if the computer
is off, if the main power supply is still connected. In the case of
laptops, I think it is powered by the _main_ battery even in the absence
of external power, unless that battery is _completely_ discharged,
though I'd like someone to confirm this.

Those lithium cells (have always been a CR2032, certainly on desktops
and on many laptops, at least for many years) will normally power the
circuitry involved for three to five years in the _absence_ of external
power.

Although it's not a foolproof check, has the date and time remained
reasonably correct whenever you power the beast? If it has, then the
cell is _probably_ OK. (I can't remember if fatdog has an on-screen
clock by default, though I'm sure it has one you can call up, if only by
typing something like "time" at the command prompt; you can check the
time [that the PC thinks it is] without booting fatdog anyway, in the
BIOS, if you can remember how to get into that [on here it's holding F12
while powering].)

I don't _think_ that's the problem, anyway - booting from CD as you have
been doing should normally work regardless of the state of the cell, and
the tests you've been able to do from fatdog do indicate a very poorly
(though possibly capable of being cloned) hard drive.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you can't construct a coherent argument for the other side, you probably
don't understand your own opinion. - Scott Adams, 2015

In message , HB writes:
[]
When ever I'm involved in a computer issue, the
first thing I do, is a backup of the sick item.

No way to do that now with the Toshiba. There was nothing of real importance
on it. Anything important was backed up on a thumbdrive.

Not entirely true: if we can clone the drive, we'd have the operating
system that could be put on a new one without having to put you through
the trouble of finding and downloading, burning to a DVD in the correct
manner, and then reinstalling (and possibly reactivating) the OS - plus
of course you wouldn't have to reinstall your various softwares,
including your daughter's favourite game (-:.

But useful to know there's nothing of _yours_ that isn't backed up, so a
reinstall-as-new would not be catastrophic.
[]
One objective of getting you a Win7 DVD disc, is to
reinstall the OS, if you cannot make a repair. So
there's always a final outcome of needing to reinstall.
But before throwing in the towel that way, it would
be good to know whether the hard drive is even
healthy enough to accept an installation. You might

(I think we've established that it isn't.)

get half way through and have it crash for example.

Let me mention that for some reason the Toshiba has always had a problem
being "slower" than normal for what's sold these days. That was why my aunt
gave it to us. It also took too much time to boot and shut down she said. I

Those _could_ all be caused by a failing hard drive. Modern drives are
made with spare sectors, and when a sector fails, they substitute one of
the spares, making a note in their internal non-volatile memory (or on
the disc!, I'm not sure) of the substitution details; when there is then
a need to read from or write to the dud sector, they use the substitute
instead. This is completely transparent to the computer they're in -
except that the response time increases, as the drive has to at least
wait for the substitute sector to come round, or has to move the heads
to get to it. As a result, the drives can appear to still be working
perfectly, but get slower and slower. I had a friend whose (Windows 98 I
think it might have been) computer took a quarter of an hour to boot,
but worked fine for most of what he did, since they were done mainly in
RAM - such as reading and editing emails.

Slow boot and shutdown - and general running - _can_ be caused by a
failing disc. If it sometimes appeared responsive, but took long pauses,
especially if you could correlate those with disc access (look at the
disc light), that could well be the case - though there's plenty else
that can slow it down too.

had to agree with her. My two oldest avoided using it. She did have it
"repaired" somewhere up in TN before she moved but it didn't help. So into
the closet it went and she bought herself a new laptop. She offered it to
meon a visit and I took it. She had this sneaky and self satisfied look of
glee on her face as she handed it over.....

(-:

Small 2.5" hard drives are available for around $50-$60
or so, ....

Yep, I already checked. That's OK. I have a feeling the HD is the problem.

Have you decided whether you're going to get a 250, a 500, or a 1T?

Either mechanical or the OS became corrupt somehow. Strangley enough she
booted just fine that evening and quit while running. I was on it, not one
of the kids. It was running when suddenly it made a kind of ticking sound
and the screen went black.

That does sound very much like hard disc failure. Especially if the
ticking sound was from the drive rather than the speakers.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you can't construct a coherent argument for the other side, you probably
don't understand your own opinion. - Scott Adams, 2015

On 23/03/2018 06:05, HB wrote:
"Patrick" wrote in message
news

I also have suspicion that the CMOS-battery might be the/a cause of
problem/s, it is thus that I searched on Google for how to replace said
CMOS-battery on the Toshiba laptop that I suspect that you have, I thus
came up with the below link that illustrates/explains how to replace the
CMOS-battery on said machine. Perhaps you would care to look there and
maybe verify if you think that it looks like your Toshiba.

http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptop...a-laptop-1.htm

I wouldn't try and attempt something like this unless I could watch someone
else do it. You literally have to almost dismantle the whole laptop to get
to it. But yes, that's the one I have.

It is quite understandable that you might not want to dismantle
anything, but have a look at below mentioned steps.

Steps 6 to 12 explain how to remove the Keyboard and this is all that
would be required to see (or/and replace) the CMOS-battery (see Step 14).
The two danger points would be Step-6 whereby you might damage the
plastic part, the other danger (more important) would be at Step 10/11
where if you don't understand the instruction, then you could damage the
Keyboard cable or socket.

The CMOS-battery is a 3v coin cell (looks like a coin), its purpose is
to maintain your BIOS settings (including the RealTimeClock), when the
Computer is powered down (and main battery removed).

Said CMOS-battery, if it has run down (3v say) it could (or has been
known to) wreak havok with the BIOS settings, thus if it where to be
replaced then you have the reassurance that is was not the problem

Cost of said coincell battery would be less than $2 (what are these $$
things) anywhere that you might buy any other drycell (Torch battery etc.).

Anyway don't worry about what I say, just that said battery should be
considered as a 'Consumable' item and can be replaced quite easily.

BTW, I noticed in one of your pictures that it showed a date of 2010
which suggests the CMOS-battery is exausted.

In message , Patrick
writes:
[]
The CMOS-battery is a 3v coin cell (looks like a coin), its purpose is
to maintain your BIOS settings (including the RealTimeClock), when the
Computer is powered down (and main battery removed).

Your last part is interesting: I'd been wondering if the circuitry was
powered by the main battery if present, and what you write suggests it
is (as I had suspected was the case).

Said CMOS-battery, if it has run down (3v say) it could (or has been
known to) wreak havok with the BIOS settings, thus if it where to be
replaced then you have the reassurance that is was not the problem

Cost of said coincell battery would be less than $2 (what are these $$
things) anywhere that you might buy any other drycell (Torch battery
etc.).

I've generally found poundshops sell (for a pound) cards containing
eight cells, being a mixture of CR2032, CR2024, and CR2016 - usually
four of one and two each of the other two; usually the one there are
four of is the one you don't want (-:. [For interest: they're all the
same voltage, as they're the same kind of cell, just different
thicknesses (and thus capacities): 2032 is 20mm across and 3.2 mm thick,
and you can guess for the others. I suppose you could use the others
with a coin or something to pad them out, but - certainly in the case of
a laptop where they're hard to get at - not worth the hassle and risk.]

Anyway don't worry about what I say, just that said battery should be
considered as a 'Consumable' item and can be replaced quite easily.

Well, not _that_ easily, compared to a desktop (-:

BTW, I noticed in one of your pictures that it showed a date of 2010
which suggests the CMOS-battery is exausted.

Not necessarily; IME, if the computer is mostly on external power, or in
the case of a laptop if its put away without the main battery being
exhausted, those cells last indefinitely (or at least, I've had ones
last longer than that).

If you can get at it enough to measure its voltage, that might be worth
doing (and then digging further if it _is_ low, though if replacing it
would be a _lot_ more work I'd say it's OK down to 2½V) - though I'm
pretty sure the tests we've done from Linux show that the hard drive is
very ill and the cause of the problems.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential
magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13.

On 23/03/2018 06:30, HB wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , HB writes: -
snip -

ImgBurn definitely can burn from ISO files.

I have that one also. Which of the 6 choices handles ISO files? Do the 4 top
choices do it? There is no mention of ISO files. Are "image" files aka ISO
files?


The first one ("Write image file to disc".

BTW, Have you heard of a free Program called "Rufus"? Said program would
allow you to Write an image file (ISO, IMG etc., file) to a blank
USB-thumbdrive.

HB wrote:
"Wolf K" wrote in message
...
On 2018-03-17 09:08, HB wrote:
OK, then how will I know if the HD is toast if it boots the PC anyway?
Booting from a CD or USB thumb drive bypasses the HD. Once Linux Puppy is
up and running, you should see all the drives it can access.

If you don't see a something that looks like a hard drive icon for C:,
there may be a way to click through the menus to find it an "mount" it (=
make it visible and usable by Puppy). Someone familiar with Puppy should
be able to walk you through that.

I know nothing about Fatdog/Linux. I don't know where to find anything
there.

If you can mount the HD, it will show on the desktop as C: or Windows. It
can be fixed, but I don't know whether Puppy includes the tools to do
that. Otherwise, the HD is beyond fixing IMO.

Mount the HD?

You're learning a lot, eh? So am I, and I'm also being reminded of holes
in my memory. Old age is not for wussies. :-)

I guess you can say this is a learning experience. At least you're still
above ground. :^)

On a normal Linux setup (before fancy graphics):

sudo mounr -t ntfs /dev/sda2 /media/mount/my_C_drive

would take the contents of partition sda2 and make it "appear"
in the file system as "/media/mount/my_C_drive". Now, I can see
and interact with my files, at that known location in the file
system namespace.

On FatDog64, the icon labeled "sda1" at the bottom of the screen,
clicking the icon starts a copy of the file manager, the partition
sda1 is mounted, the files appear in a pre-designated part of the
file tree, and... you can look at your files. You don't have
to know any command line stuff, because those icons were placed
there for your usage.

*******

When the OS shuts down, using the proper OS shutdown item (looks like
a power button icon), the partition is dis-mounted and made safe:

sudo umount /media/mount/my_C_drive

Then the OS completes shutdown procedures and the power goes off.

*******

Windows does similar things when it works, but doesn't expose
controls in the same way. On a USB Stick "Safely Remove" puts
away file systems on the USB Stick. Or in Disk Management, selecting
the option to put a hard drive "Offline" or "Online", implicitly
unmounts or mounts a partition.

If a partition is mounted, files are in an open state, you then hold
down the power button (or switch off the desktop at the back), that
can potentially damage files. No matter what kind of operating system
you use on a computer, you want to understand these issues well
enough, so that no damage happens to your data, to the file system,
to the hard drive, or to the SSD you bought.

An SSD might be marginally more susceptible to incorrect operating
procedures, and it's possible being careless with the power switch,
can make the SSD brick itself. No matter what tech you use, there's
always a "best practice" to make the hardware last as long as possible.

The "smartctl" picture you uploaded, shows the owner of the laptop
*has* been hitting the power button and just shutting it down as
if it was freezing, and they wanted the machine to "stop". So there is
some evidence I can see, probably near the end life of the hard drive,
the owner was running into trouble and hitting power was their last
resort.

Paul

HB wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , HB writes: -
snip -

ImgBurn definitely can burn from ISO files.

I have that one also. Which of the 6 choices handles ISO files? Do the 4 top
choices do it? There is no mention of ISO files. Are "image" files aka ISO
files?

Top-left button burns an ISO.

There is also an option to "read in" an optical disc
and make an ISO file out of it. For archiving perhaps.

Paul

In message , HB writes:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , HB writes: -
snip -

ImgBurn definitely can burn from ISO files.

I have that one also. Which of the 6 choices handles ISO files? Do the 4 top
choices do it? There is no mention of ISO files. Are "image" files aka ISO
files?


Yes. The difference between using a .iso (image) file and ordinary
burning is that, once you've (correctly) burned from a .iso file, if you
then look at the disc you've created using explorer, you will see lots
of files, not one file. Same as making an image of a hard drive using
Macrium, other than that a Macrium .mrimg file can contain things from
several partitions (or even drives, I think).

In ImgBurn:

o Write image file to disc - create a CD/DVD from an .iso file. (This is
probably the one you will be using most.)

Create image file from disc - create a .iso file from a CD/DVD. (This
makes ONE .iso file, regardless of how many files, folders, etc. are on
the CD/DVD.)

o Verify disc - This verifies a disc against a .iso file; you'd use it
to check a write has been completed correctly (though the write function
has a verify option anyway), or that a CD/DVD hasn't deteriorated, or to
compare a CD/DVD with an .iso file if you'd forgotten to label it and
weren't sure what .iso file it was made from.

o Write files/folders to disc - normal data disc creation, where you
select lots of files/folders, and make a disc which when examined has
those files and folders on it.

o Create image file from files/folders - as above, except you don't
actually make a CD/DVD, you make a .iso file, which you can make CD/DVD
from later, without having to select all the files/folders again.
(Especially if you're going to be making lots of such CD/DVDs. I might
do this to distribute my family tree researches to my family, for
example.)

o Discovery - I'd never looked at this one! It seems to be for checking
the quality of the burns you make using your current drive and media.

Full manual at
http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?/...urn-functions/
..
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential
magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13.

In message , HB writes:

"tesla sTinker" wrote in message
news
This sounds like the bios has skipped, forgotten its fire up drive.
When battery goes bad in them, they reset to default and when they do
that, the fire up drive is not the same anymore. Holding down the cntrl
shift and delete keys while hitting the power button may just bring you
into the bios.

It didn't. Just the same Read Disk Error.

It varies so widely between manufacturers and models. It used to be you
pressed a certain key just after powering up: at first the Delete key
was the commonest one, but various F keys also became common.

With the Toshiba laptop I'm typing on (a Portégé, it's hold down the F12
key _while_ turning on. Might be the same on HB's laptop.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

(please reply to group - they also serve who only look and lurk)
(William Allen, 1999 - after Milton, of course)

In message , Patrick
writes:
[]
BTW, Have you heard of a free Program called "Rufus"? Said program
would allow you to Write an image file (ISO, IMG etc., file) to a blank
USB-thumbdrive.

Why would he want to do that - or would it allow his laptop to boot from
the thumbdrive in the same way it is doing from the CD he's made with
fatdog Linux on it?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

(please reply to group - they also serve who only look and lurk)
(William Allen, 1999 - after Milton, of course)

On 23/03/2018 15:14, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Patrick
writes:
[]
BTW, Have you heard of a free Program called "Rufus"? Said program
would allow you to Write an image file (ISO, IMG etc., file) to a
blank USB-thumbdrive.

Why would he want to do that - or would it allow his laptop to boot from
the thumbdrive in the same way it is doing from the CD he's made with
fatdog Linux on it?

Yes,

I have just installed W7-Home-Premium (What 'HB' has on his good PC and
on the his Toshiba), onto a spare HDD (having disconnected the working HDD.
I did said Installation using 'Rufus' which wrote W7 ISO to the thumbdrive.
I then stuck the thumbdrive into PC, turned PC on, tapped the F12 key,
selected the thumbdrive (under HDD's) to boot from, then watched for it
to say "Press any key to boot from USB" and installed it.

I then rebooted to the Thumbdrive, entered the Keyboard location, was
given the big "Install" button and down in the lower-left an option to
repair the Installation which of course found no problem.

Rebooted back to the W7 HDD.

"Paul" wrote in message
news
HB wrote:
The Macrium downloader gets an error and it doesn't download. Do you
have an URL for a working downloader for Macrium?


When you select a "Download Location" in the stub downloader, it
has to be a folder that is write-able by your account.

I made a TEMP folder on my L: drive, and told ReflectDLHF to
dump the downloads into L:\TEMP .

Tonight it looks like it will download but there is no choice - only RUN. I
can't save it anywhere. This PC is running for years perfectly so I don't
want software I'm not familiar with installed on it. Saved, Yes. Running,
no.

If you can at least get the main program to download, that is a start.
The main program is available in 32-bit or 64-bit version. Select
the one to match the OS of the machine you're installing on. If
your C: drive right now, has "Program Files" and "Program Files (x86)",
then you're allowed to use the x64 version.

OK, now run that chosen file on the computer you're installing on.
(I call this the Technician Computer, because it's the computer
that is fully working and not a flaming train wreck.)

If you run the install, it should be able to install without
any WinPE Kit at all.

I have no idea what those tech' terms mean.


*Now*, start the program from the Start menu. You just finished
installing it, and it should be ready to go to work. It will prompt you to
"make an emergency CD". Good.

I would need someone with experience to do this since it's installing
software I know nothing about and don't understand. I gave me no choice to
"save" it, just run it.


It will notice you didn't download any WinPE during the
original download session. The program is capable of downloading
its own set of WinPE files, just like the stub downloader does it.
The difference is, it will store the downloads in %temp% and
it won't give any irritating prompts to "pick a download folder".
A choice of either WinPE5 or WinPE10 should work.

Zooooom! Right over my head.


I can show you where it gets the WinPE downloads from. These are
some paths for getting WinPE components.

If you prepare the emergency boot CD from the program, maybe the
download step will work better for you. No guarantees of course,
because I can't be absolutely sure what's wrong.

I got a micro trend disk to work but it could not boot the Toshiba. I think
we can assume now, with some certainty, that the HD is gone. It gave some
info but none useful to the average computer user. There is nothing more I
can do for the Toshiba until that dock comes in in a few weeks. I'm almost
100% positive the HD is the problem because it works Fatdog fine from the
DVD drive.


I did see a Macrium forum post, where someone was actually
getting a download failure, and the Microsoft server can always be
"out of order" when the request is made. Servers break sometimes.

It would have downloaded tonight but there was no choice but to RUN it. No
way to Save it.

--

"Those who can make you believe absurdities,
can make you commit atrocities"

~ Voltaire ~

In message , HB writes:
[]
Zooooom! Right over my head.
[]
I did see a Macrium forum post, where someone was actually
[]
"Monty" has given a very detailed step-by-step post on how to make a
Macrium boot disc - it's the one where his first words (after quoting a
few lines from others) are "The following is a 2-stage download." It
looks fairly foolproof to me (other than at one point he says "within a
few seconds", which might be more a few tens of seconds, unless you have
as fast a connection as he does).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"That was a great speech. Every thinking American will vote for you."
"That's not enough. I need a majority." - Mo Udall