I have no "Batteries" in device manager.

On 6/25/2014 4:18 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:18:00 -0400, Al Drake wrote:


1. I tried to look this over, but the online documentation is somewhat peculiar.
I see the USB ports have an ALWAYS ON power feature for charging gadgets such as
cell phones. I wonder if this could be causing a conflict with the UPS? Is
there a way to turn this off in the bios?

2. I was also wondering, if you download a Linux distro, such as Mint and run it
from a USB stick or DVD, it would be interesting to know if the Linux OS sees
the UPS. If not, then the problem probably is not with your Windows
installation.

3. You indicated you have UPS on your other machines, have you tried a different
UPS on this machine?

4. I vaguely remember that APC would use special USB cables. Are you using the
cable that came with the UPS?

5. Have you looked at the USB section of your device manager? Does it show an
unrecognized device?

I will try to change the USB configuration and see what happens. I
could try a mobo forum and see what others know.
I've never done anything with Linux so it's never to late I guess. I
have tried other UPS units. There are 2 sitting besides each other so
it's easy to swap the cables. I have used them all previously on many
computers and have had them quite some time. Actually they are now
discontinued they're so old. I've replaced the batteries regularly and
never had a need to get rid of them(3). I do have a newer unit I could
move to that location but I had no reason to do so. I can't see any UPS
devices being all that complicated. I assumed it was my Win7 install or
the board. I am using the provided cables as I know of no other way to
use these units.

There is a "unrecognized" device showing that appears when I plug in
the UPS. It's situated above 2 "USB Composite Device" references and
below "Intel(R) N10/ICH7 Family USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 27CC".


As I couldn't find the documentation for your bios USB settings, I would really
like to know what those options are.

Your device failed enumeration which can be due to a number of things.

The first thing I would do, in device manger with the unrecognized device, right
click and select "update driver software" then select search automatically for
updated software. Make sure the machine is connected to the Internet. You
might get lucky.

By the way, have you installed the latest version of Powerchute on the computer?
Is there driver software for your UPS available for download?


Well, I have just made the decision to dump this board and purchase
another. On the shelf it goes. No AHCI so SSD suffers and limited
features with very basic BIOS. The only thing I like is the DDR3
supporting 8Gigs. I wanted it for the 775 CPUs I have but now it's on to
something much better.

Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H LGA 1150 Z97 with Killer E2200 and Intel Gaming
Networking SATA Express M.2 SSD ATX Motherboard $180 Amazon

Crucial Ballistix Tactical Low Profile 32GB Kit (8GBx4) DDR3-1600 1.35V
UDIMM 240-Pin Memory Modules BLT4C8G3D1608ET3LX0 $319

Intel Core i7-4790 Processor - BX80646I7479 $309.

Now I have to decide what PSU to use and I'm off and running. Probably
build this beast next week while on Vaca.

I need this like another hole in my head.

On 25/06/2014 00:15, Al Drake wrote:
Thanks for the reply Wolf K. I have the manual provided by the
manufacturer and found no such problem indicated. I am unable to even
get it installed so my thoughts are elsewhere. The foremost being the
lack of batteries indicated in device manager. I was hoping to get this
resolved before I could even contact support.

it's a bit odd to use a UPS with a laptop.

You do know that only laptops have batteries in them?


--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

Al Drake wrote:
On 6/25/2014 11:51 AM, Paul wrote:
Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:48:31 -0400, Paul wrote:

Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 03:32:34 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

On 6/24/2014 8:06 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 19:37:13 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

On 6/24/2014 5:06 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
I have been trying to install an APC UPS RS 1000 on one of my
newly
built systems but I keep getting a USB device error. For some
reason
this piece of hardware is not recognized and the software will
not
install. This USB failure is only happening with this UPS. I am
sure
all my USB ports are operational as I've tried them all. I am
using
some for USB keyboard and Bluetooth device and have swapped
them all
to make sure that wasn't the problem. After searching endlessly
for a
fix I noticed the missing "batteries" access in the device
manager. I
have also searched endlessly for a fix for this problem but all
I come
up with is posts regarding missing battery icon on laptops. I
installed Windows 7 a few days ago clean which went well or so I
thought. The last thing I wanted to do is set up the UPS and
I'm all
set. I have one on all my systems and never had a problem of this
nature ever. I tried different UPS but I get the same USB error
with
them all.

My last hope was that someone here has knowledge of this
issue and
knows what to do.

Thanks for any help.

Al.
The site requires registration, to get a copy of the software.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ase_sku=BR1000



I would look for a USB driver folder, and see whether there is any
intention for the USB port to be a serial device (like an RS232
port).
In which case, the interface class is defined in Windows already.

If it had a totally custom interface, there might be VID and PID
matching in the INF, that hints at the custom nature.

The manual will tell you to either install the Powerchute *before*
plugging in the UPS for the first time. Or, it'll tell you
the UPS gets plugged in *after* Powerchute is installed.
The order dependence, exists for cases where a Windows generic
driver "hijacks" the device and prevents normal installation.

Since I can't look at the product software, that's about
all I can offer. I'm sure the clowns at APCC will be only
to happy to walk you through this.

Technical Support You own an APC product
800-555-2725
and you need technical assistance

If the unit was in front of me, I'd dig out a copy of
UVCView or USBView from Microsoft, and also check to
see if the device is registering or not (and the Config
information is visible).

HTH,
Paul
Thanks Paul.

To begin with I have the manual as I registered some years ago
when I
got my first APC UPS. I have 6 all working fine. Nothing is
mentioned
about this particular problem. I tried installing the SW first
but it
halts when it does not detect the USB handshaking. I tried
attaching the
UPS first but the USB error persists. Your first sentence is
confusing
to me as I have no idea what to look for by name and where to look.
Would that be the System folder perhaps? I tried removing the
unknown
USB device and allowing a search of the Windows folder, the Windows
installations disk and a HDD removed from another system that had
the
UPS working but I continually get the message the driver
installed is
correct or something to that affect.

I was concentrating on learning more about the lack of batteries
indications in the device manager as I have connected this
particular
UPS without the software on other computers and let windows take
control
but not in this case obviously.

I have hesitated contacting APC tech support as I know it's not a
faulty device as I have indicated it works on other systems.

So I can only conclude there is something missing on the one OS
install.

Yes? No?

Do you have legacy USB support (or some such description) enabled
in the UEFI /
BIOS?

I would thoroughly examine the UEFI / BIOS USB settings maybe play
with them a
bit.

Can you post a link to the documentation for your new motherboard?

I looked over BIOS and everything looked propper as all USB posts
are operational just not liking the UPS.

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3960#ov

This is the board I'm working with.
1. I tried to look this over, but the online documentation is
somewhat peculiar.
I see the USB ports have an ALWAYS ON power feature for charging
gadgets such as
cell phones. I wonder if this could be causing a conflict with the
UPS? Is
there a way to turn this off in the bios?

2. I was also wondering, if you download a Linux distro, such as
Mint and run it
from a USB stick or DVD, it would be interesting to know if the
Linux OS sees
the UPS. If not, then the problem probably is not with your Windows
installation.

3. You indicated you have UPS on your other machines, have you tried
a different
UPS on this machine?

4. I vaguely remember that APC would use special USB cables. Are
you using the
cable that came with the UPS?

5. Have you looked at the USB section of your device manager? Does
it show an
unrecognized device?
Regarding (1):

USB is a host to peripheral protocol. The host delivers +5VSB on VBUS,
to power peripherals which do not have their own power source. This
is sufficient for many items with modest power requirements (including
some 2.5" disk drives). It's part of the USB spec, to expect the
host to make power available on the VBUS wire. The UPS will not be
thrown off by this. And power is not supposed to flow in the other
direction - an exception to that, is self-powered USB hubs, which
lack the necessary relay to cut power flow when it would be possible
for it to flow in the wrong direction. Simple diodes are not enough
(too much drop). If your computer starts behaving weirdly after
a self-powered hub is plugged in, it could be current flowing up
the cable via VBUS (when it's not supposed to).

Charging features for phones require a couple things. Sufficient power
from the +5VSB on the ATX supply (check the label on the side, and
assume the motherboard uses at least 1 ampere while sleeping). The D+
and
D- pins may have an encoding, done with strap resistors or otherwise,
which signals to the charging peripheral, the characteristics of the
power source. Without the encoding on D+/D-, some charging devices
may refuse to charge at all.

For (5), UVCView, USBView or the USBTreeView should show some
kind of entry when the UPS is plugged in. Even if no driver is
present, the config space of the USB device should be listed,
as well as information about whether endpoints formed or not
as a result of the connection. The information is not in a
human-friendly format, but any info is better than none at all.

Sites like this one, can help with the decoding chore.

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb5.shtml

Paul

You are right, he should not try disabling the USB feature I
referenced. Every
engineer I was trained with always designed and built perfect systems
which
comply perfectly with standards and theory.

And let's face it, changing a single switch in the bios requires a
lot of
effort. :-)

Charles, I try to concentrate on "likely" things. USB power
wouldn't be high on my list to check. And the "Always On" feature
is more likely to be an encoding on D+/D-, as bus power may be
present there in any case. Bus power should be there, to support
"wake" events, such as keyboard or mouse waking of the computer.

If the motherboard "nominates" some ports for goofy features (by
sporting a different color plastic for the connector tab), you can
always choose another port. Powder blue is for USB3, so that's not
a scary one. If a USB port had red plastic, perhaps that would
imply a special property. And if you're superstitious, you could
always try another port. One of the black colored USB2 ones.

Right now, I would be interested in UVCView, USBView, or USBTreeView,
to differentiate between a hardware or a software problem. If
absolutely nothing shows up, then it's some kind of hardware problem.
If you have a USB powered LED lamp, that can be used as a way
to see if bus power is available or not (in case a fuse opened).
You would plug the LED into one of the two USB ports in a "stack",
as a means of monitoring fuse state. While USB overcurrent should
also pop up on the screen, if the fuse opens, having a visual
indicator helps.

"1.1 or
110" on USB ports are arranged in "stacks of
two",
top to save a few pennies on extra fuses and
caps

+5VSB ---- polyfuse ---+---- Upper_USB_Port VBUS (500ma max
USB2 --)
|
+---- Lower_USB_Port VBUS (500ma max
USB2 --)
| ^
Active_low, OC# overcurrent --+ +--- Monitor a port with a USB LED
lamp,
or any device with power LEDs
on it

HTH,
Paul

Here you go Paul.

=========================== USB Port2 ===========================

Connection Status : Device failed enumeration
Port Chain : 1-2

======================== USB Device ========================

+++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++
Device Description : Unknown Device
Device ID : USB\VID_0000&PID_0000\5&339E9CE1&0&2
Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0017
(GUID_DEVCLASS_USB)
Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usb.inf
Legacy BusType : PNPBus
Class : USB
Service :
Enumerator : USB
Location Info : Port_#0002.Hub_#0001
Manufacturer Info : (Standard USB Host Controller)
Capabilities : Removable, RawDeviceOK
Address : 2
Problem Code : 43 (CM_PROB_FAILED_POST_START)
Power State : D3 (supported: D0, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake
from D2)

---------------- Connection Information ---------------
Connection Index : 0x02
Connection Status : 0x02 (DeviceFailedEnumeration)
Current Config Value : 0x00
Device Address : 0x00
Is Hub : 0x00 (no)
Number Of Open Pipes : 0x00 (0)
Device Bus Speed : 0x00 (Low-Speed)

------------------ Device Descriptor ------------------
bLength : 0x00 (0 bytes)

The suggestion here, is to look in setupapi.log for more info.
Which would certainly be the thing I'd recommend on WinXP,
less sure it would contain useful info on Windows 7. There
are several files similar to that in C:\Windows\inf.

http://janaxelson.com/forum/index.ph...c=736.5%3bwap2

I looked up this number.

36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driver...class-guid.htm

USB 36FC9E60-C465-11CF-8056-444553540000 USB host controllers and hubs

And that could be a reference to the thing on the host side, rather than
the peripheral itself. Since the device config space info is not available,
it probably means the motherboard hub didn't succeed in communicating
with the thing. The only thing weird about this report, is the
CM_PROB_FAILED_POST_START with the word "POST" in it. It implies
it did get half-way through the startup process, but then
disappeared. By half-way through, I'm referring to being
recognized as a HID input device, rather than the setup
being fully function. There are probably two steps, and it
failed half way through the first step.

*******

I looked up the APC UPS types, and got a match here.

http://www.microsoft-questions.com/m...-with-ups.aspx

HID\VID_051D&PID_0001.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0002.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0003.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"

Those are the kinds of VID/PID that the hardware enumeration
would find (if it got further along than your error indicates).
And hidbatt.sys is supposed to pick up from there. So first
it is detected as a HID device (human interface device
like a mouse or keyboard, or other slow speed input), and then
somehow the OS decides it is handled by hidbatt.sys . There
would likely be two driver files in the driver stack for it.

In Windows 7 C:\Windows\inf, the file input.inf contains this:

HID\VID_051D&PID_0001.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0002.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0003.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"

I'm guessing, that once the OS discovers new hardware,
gets the particular VID/PID, it finds a match on input.inf.
And some info there, causes hidbatt.sys to be used.

In battery.inf, I can find a reference to hidbatt and
also to APC. There could be different drivers, depending
on the UPS manufacturer, as listed in battery.inf.

APC.DeviceDesc = "APC UPS"

So that's what it looks like it is supposed to do. First
be discovered as input.inf HID device, then (somehow)
be discovered as battery.inf material.

*******

Would Linux find it ? Maybe. At this point, I'd be willing
to give that a shot. Run "dmesg" from a Terminal, and
see if the APC is detected or not.

Paul

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:05:33 +0100, Brian Gregory wrote:

On 25/06/2014 00:15, Al Drake wrote:
Thanks for the reply Wolf K. I have the manual provided by the
manufacturer and found no such problem indicated. I am unable to even
get it installed so my thoughts are elsewhere. The foremost being the
lack of batteries indicated in device manager. I was hoping to get this
resolved before I could even contact support.

it's a bit odd to use a UPS with a laptop.

You do know that only laptops have batteries in them?

OTOH, Al *did* refer to the system this way in his OP: "one of my newly
built systems". It seem unlikely that Al built a laptop, n'est-ce pas?

He's referring to the batteries in the UPS, I strongly suspect, although
I've had Windows talk to me about how to manage the battery in a
desktop.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:17:36 -0700, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:45:37 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:05:33 +0100, Brian Gregory wrote:

On 25/06/2014 00:15, Al Drake wrote:
Thanks for the reply Wolf K. I have the manual provided by the
manufacturer and found no such problem indicated. I am unable to even
get it installed so my thoughts are elsewhere. The foremost being the
lack of batteries indicated in device manager. I was hoping to get this
resolved before I could even contact support.

it's a bit odd to use a UPS with a laptop.

You do know that only laptops have batteries in them?

OTOH, Al *did* refer to the system this way in his OP: "one of my newly
built systems". It seem unlikely that Al built a laptop, n'est-ce pas?

He's referring to the batteries in the UPS, I strongly suspect, although
I've had Windows talk to me about how to manage the battery in a
desktop.

When using a UPS with Vista or above, a properly installed device is listed as a
"Battery" in Device Manager.

Cool! Thanks for the info.

But I've never had a UPS, so my only (rather vague) thought about
Windows giving me battery settings is that it gets confused by
all-in-one computers, some of which look a lot like laptops without
batteries :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 6/25/2014 6:20 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 6/25/2014 11:51 AM, Paul wrote:
Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:48:31 -0400, Paul wrote:

Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 03:32:34 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

On 6/24/2014 8:06 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 19:37:13 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

On 6/24/2014 5:06 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
I have been trying to install an APC UPS RS 1000 on one of my
newly
built systems but I keep getting a USB device error. For some
reason
this piece of hardware is not recognized and the software
will not
install. This USB failure is only happening with this UPS. I am
sure
all my USB ports are operational as I've tried them all. I am
using
some for USB keyboard and Bluetooth device and have swapped
them all
to make sure that wasn't the problem. After searching endlessly
for a
fix I noticed the missing "batteries" access in the device
manager. I
have also searched endlessly for a fix for this problem but all
I come
up with is posts regarding missing battery icon on laptops. I
installed Windows 7 a few days ago clean which went well or so I
thought. The last thing I wanted to do is set up the UPS and
I'm all
set. I have one on all my systems and never had a problem of
this
nature ever. I tried different UPS but I get the same USB error
with
them all.

My last hope was that someone here has knowledge of this
issue and
knows what to do.

Thanks for any help.

Al.
The site requires registration, to get a copy of the software.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ase_sku=BR1000



I would look for a USB driver folder, and see whether there is
any
intention for the USB port to be a serial device (like an RS232
port).
In which case, the interface class is defined in Windows already.

If it had a totally custom interface, there might be VID and PID
matching in the INF, that hints at the custom nature.

The manual will tell you to either install the Powerchute
*before*
plugging in the UPS for the first time. Or, it'll tell you
the UPS gets plugged in *after* Powerchute is installed.
The order dependence, exists for cases where a Windows generic
driver "hijacks" the device and prevents normal installation.

Since I can't look at the product software, that's about
all I can offer. I'm sure the clowns at APCC will be only
to happy to walk you through this.

Technical Support You own an APC product
800-555-2725
and you need technical assistance

If the unit was in front of me, I'd dig out a copy of
UVCView or USBView from Microsoft, and also check to
see if the device is registering or not (and the Config
information is visible).

HTH,
Paul
Thanks Paul.

To begin with I have the manual as I registered some years ago
when I
got my first APC UPS. I have 6 all working fine. Nothing is
mentioned
about this particular problem. I tried installing the SW first
but it
halts when it does not detect the USB handshaking. I tried
attaching the
UPS first but the USB error persists. Your first sentence is
confusing
to me as I have no idea what to look for by name and where to
look.
Would that be the System folder perhaps? I tried removing the
unknown
USB device and allowing a search of the Windows folder, the
Windows
installations disk and a HDD removed from another system that had
the
UPS working but I continually get the message the driver
installed is
correct or something to that affect.

I was concentrating on learning more about the lack of batteries
indications in the device manager as I have connected this
particular
UPS without the software on other computers and let windows take
control
but not in this case obviously.

I have hesitated contacting APC tech support as I know it's
not a
faulty device as I have indicated it works on other systems.

So I can only conclude there is something missing on the one OS
install.

Yes? No?

Do you have legacy USB support (or some such description) enabled
in the UEFI /
BIOS?

I would thoroughly examine the UEFI / BIOS USB settings maybe play
with them a
bit.

Can you post a link to the documentation for your new motherboard?

I looked over BIOS and everything looked propper as all USB posts
are operational just not liking the UPS.

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3960#ov

This is the board I'm working with.
1. I tried to look this over, but the online documentation is
somewhat peculiar.
I see the USB ports have an ALWAYS ON power feature for charging
gadgets such as
cell phones. I wonder if this could be causing a conflict with the
UPS? Is
there a way to turn this off in the bios?

2. I was also wondering, if you download a Linux distro, such as
Mint and run it
from a USB stick or DVD, it would be interesting to know if the
Linux OS sees
the UPS. If not, then the problem probably is not with your Windows
installation.

3. You indicated you have UPS on your other machines, have you tried
a different
UPS on this machine?

4. I vaguely remember that APC would use special USB cables. Are
you using the
cable that came with the UPS?

5. Have you looked at the USB section of your device manager? Does
it show an
unrecognized device?
Regarding (1):

USB is a host to peripheral protocol. The host delivers +5VSB on VBUS,
to power peripherals which do not have their own power source. This
is sufficient for many items with modest power requirements (including
some 2.5" disk drives). It's part of the USB spec, to expect the
host to make power available on the VBUS wire. The UPS will not be
thrown off by this. And power is not supposed to flow in the other
direction - an exception to that, is self-powered USB hubs, which
lack the necessary relay to cut power flow when it would be possible
for it to flow in the wrong direction. Simple diodes are not enough
(too much drop). If your computer starts behaving weirdly after
a self-powered hub is plugged in, it could be current flowing up
the cable via VBUS (when it's not supposed to).

Charging features for phones require a couple things. Sufficient power
from the +5VSB on the ATX supply (check the label on the side, and
assume the motherboard uses at least 1 ampere while sleeping). The D+
and
D- pins may have an encoding, done with strap resistors or otherwise,
which signals to the charging peripheral, the characteristics of the
power source. Without the encoding on D+/D-, some charging devices
may refuse to charge at all.

For (5), UVCView, USBView or the USBTreeView should show some
kind of entry when the UPS is plugged in. Even if no driver is
present, the config space of the USB device should be listed,
as well as information about whether endpoints formed or not
as a result of the connection. The information is not in a
human-friendly format, but any info is better than none at all.

Sites like this one, can help with the decoding chore.

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb5.shtml

Paul

You are right, he should not try disabling the USB feature I
referenced. Every
engineer I was trained with always designed and built perfect systems
which
comply perfectly with standards and theory.

And let's face it, changing a single switch in the bios requires a
lot of
effort. :-)

Charles, I try to concentrate on "likely" things. USB power
wouldn't be high on my list to check. And the "Always On" feature
is more likely to be an encoding on D+/D-, as bus power may be
present there in any case. Bus power should be there, to support
"wake" events, such as keyboard or mouse waking of the computer.

If the motherboard "nominates" some ports for goofy features (by
sporting a different color plastic for the connector tab), you can
always choose another port. Powder blue is for USB3, so that's not
a scary one. If a USB port had red plastic, perhaps that would
imply a special property. And if you're superstitious, you could
always try another port. One of the black colored USB2 ones.

Right now, I would be interested in UVCView, USBView, or USBTreeView,
to differentiate between a hardware or a software problem. If
absolutely nothing shows up, then it's some kind of hardware problem.
If you have a USB powered LED lamp, that can be used as a way
to see if bus power is available or not (in case a fuse opened).
You would plug the LED into one of the two USB ports in a "stack",
as a means of monitoring fuse state. While USB overcurrent should
also pop up on the screen, if the fuse opens, having a visual
indicator helps.

"1.1 or
110" on USB ports are arranged in "stacks of
two",
top to save a few pennies on extra fuses and
caps

+5VSB ---- polyfuse ---+---- Upper_USB_Port VBUS (500ma max
USB2 --)
|
+---- Lower_USB_Port VBUS (500ma max
USB2 --)
| ^
Active_low, OC# overcurrent --+ +--- Monitor a port with a USB LED
lamp,
or any device with power LEDs
on it

HTH,
Paul

Here you go Paul.

=========================== USB Port2 ===========================

Connection Status : Device failed enumeration
Port Chain : 1-2

======================== USB Device ========================

+++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++
Device Description : Unknown Device
Device ID : USB\VID_0000&PID_0000\5&339E9CE1&0&2
Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0017
(GUID_DEVCLASS_USB)
Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usb.inf
Legacy BusType : PNPBus
Class : USB
Service :
Enumerator : USB
Location Info : Port_#0002.Hub_#0001
Manufacturer Info : (Standard USB Host Controller)
Capabilities : Removable, RawDeviceOK
Address : 2
Problem Code : 43 (CM_PROB_FAILED_POST_START)
Power State : D3 (supported: D0, D2, D3, wake from D0,
wake from D2)

---------------- Connection Information ---------------
Connection Index : 0x02
Connection Status : 0x02 (DeviceFailedEnumeration)
Current Config Value : 0x00
Device Address : 0x00
Is Hub : 0x00 (no)
Number Of Open Pipes : 0x00 (0)
Device Bus Speed : 0x00 (Low-Speed)

------------------ Device Descriptor ------------------
bLength : 0x00 (0 bytes)

The suggestion here, is to look in setupapi.log for more info.
Which would certainly be the thing I'd recommend on WinXP,
less sure it would contain useful info on Windows 7. There
are several files similar to that in C:\Windows\inf.

http://janaxelson.com/forum/index.ph...c=736.5%3bwap2

I looked up this number.

36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driver...class-guid.htm

USB 36FC9E60-C465-11CF-8056-444553540000 USB host controllers
and hubs

And that could be a reference to the thing on the host side, rather than
the peripheral itself. Since the device config space info is not available,
it probably means the motherboard hub didn't succeed in communicating
with the thing. The only thing weird about this report, is the
CM_PROB_FAILED_POST_START with the word "POST" in it. It implies
it did get half-way through the startup process, but then
disappeared. By half-way through, I'm referring to being
recognized as a HID input device, rather than the setup
being fully function. There are probably two steps, and it
failed half way through the first step.

*******

I looked up the APC UPS types, and got a match here.

http://www.microsoft-questions.com/m...-with-ups.aspx


HID\VID_051D&PID_0001.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0002.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0003.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"

Those are the kinds of VID/PID that the hardware enumeration
would find (if it got further along than your error indicates).
And hidbatt.sys is supposed to pick up from there. So first
it is detected as a HID device (human interface device
like a mouse or keyboard, or other slow speed input), and then
somehow the OS decides it is handled by hidbatt.sys . There
would likely be two driver files in the driver stack for it.

In Windows 7 C:\Windows\inf, the file input.inf contains this:

HID\VID_051D&PID_0001.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0002.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0003.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"

I'm guessing, that once the OS discovers new hardware,
gets the particular VID/PID, it finds a match on input.inf.
And some info there, causes hidbatt.sys to be used.

In battery.inf, I can find a reference to hidbatt and
also to APC. There could be different drivers, depending
on the UPS manufacturer, as listed in battery.inf.

APC.DeviceDesc = "APC UPS"

So that's what it looks like it is supposed to do. First
be discovered as input.inf HID device, then (somehow)
be discovered as battery.inf material.

*******

Would Linux find it ? Maybe. At this point, I'd be willing
to give that a shot. Run "dmesg" from a Terminal, and
see if the APC is detected or not.

Paul

Ok, so then if Linux finds the device how will that help when I switch
back to Windows? I'm not getting this................?

On 6/25/2014 5:20 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:57:07 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 6/25/2014 4:18 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:18:00 -0400, Al Drake wrote:


1. I tried to look this over, but the online documentation is somewhat peculiar.
I see the USB ports have an ALWAYS ON power feature for charging gadgets such as
cell phones. I wonder if this could be causing a conflict with the UPS? Is
there a way to turn this off in the bios?

2. I was also wondering, if you download a Linux distro, such as Mint and run it
from a USB stick or DVD, it would be interesting to know if the Linux OS sees
the UPS. If not, then the problem probably is not with your Windows
installation.

3. You indicated you have UPS on your other machines, have you tried a different
UPS on this machine?

4. I vaguely remember that APC would use special USB cables. Are you using the
cable that came with the UPS?

5. Have you looked at the USB section of your device manager? Does it show an
unrecognized device?

I will try to change the USB configuration and see what happens. I
could try a mobo forum and see what others know.
I've never done anything with Linux so it's never to late I guess. I
have tried other UPS units. There are 2 sitting besides each other so
it's easy to swap the cables. I have used them all previously on many
computers and have had them quite some time. Actually they are now
discontinued they're so old. I've replaced the batteries regularly and
never had a need to get rid of them(3). I do have a newer unit I could
move to that location but I had no reason to do so. I can't see any UPS
devices being all that complicated. I assumed it was my Win7 install or
the board. I am using the provided cables as I know of no other way to
use these units.

There is a "unrecognized" device showing that appears when I plug in
the UPS. It's situated above 2 "USB Composite Device" references and
below "Intel(R) N10/ICH7 Family USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 27CC".


As I couldn't find the documentation for your bios USB settings, I would really
like to know what those options are.

Your device failed enumeration which can be due to a number of things.

The first thing I would do, in device manger with the unrecognized device, right
click and select "update driver software" then select search automatically for
updated software. Make sure the machine is connected to the Internet. You
might get lucky.

By the way, have you installed the latest version of Powerchute on the computer?
Is there driver software for your UPS available for download?


Well, I have just made the decision to dump this board and purchase
another. On the shelf it goes. No AHCI so SSD suffers and limited
features with very basic BIOS. The only thing I like is the DDR3
supporting 8Gigs. I wanted it for the 775 CPUs I have but now it's on to
something much better.

Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H LGA 1150 Z97 with Killer E2200 and Intel Gaming
Networking SATA Express M.2 SSD ATX Motherboard $180 Amazon

Crucial Ballistix Tactical Low Profile 32GB Kit (8GBx4) DDR3-1600 1.35V
UDIMM 240-Pin Memory Modules BLT4C8G3D1608ET3LX0 $319

Intel Core i7-4790 Processor - BX80646I7479 $309.

Now I have to decide what PSU to use and I'm off and running. Probably
build this beast next week while on Vaca.

I need this like another hole in my head.




So, we are giving up on the UPS for the time being? That is a shame.

Well I have no idea what to do to fix this and hate to depend on
others to do my work for me and I hate to give up but I would be willing
to see this through if you would prefer. This build started out as a
rebuild from an older system running WinXP Pro but I can't even remember
what it was in the very beginning. I just got carried away and ended up
with everything new from the case to the board, RAM and recently Win7
and an SSD. I put everything in a Sentey case.

http://www.sears.com/sentey-slim-ser...irectType=SRDT

It was sitting on the floor for about a year covered in plastic when
I had nothing to do so I brought it back to life and here we are a week
later.

On 26/06/2014 01:16, Al Drake wrote:
Ok, so then if Linux finds the device how will that help when I switch
back to Windows? I'm not getting this................?

I guess it would point you towards a problem with your Windows
installation rather than a problem with the PC hardware and/or the UPS.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

On 26/06/2014 00:17, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:45:37 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:05:33 +0100, Brian Gregory wrote:

On 25/06/2014 00:15, Al Drake wrote:
Thanks for the reply Wolf K. I have the manual provided by the
manufacturer and found no such problem indicated. I am unable to even
get it installed so my thoughts are elsewhere. The foremost being the
lack of batteries indicated in device manager. I was hoping to get this
resolved before I could even contact support.

it's a bit odd to use a UPS with a laptop.

You do know that only laptops have batteries in them?

OTOH, Al *did* refer to the system this way in his OP: "one of my newly
built systems". It seem unlikely that Al built a laptop, n'est-ce pas?

He's referring to the batteries in the UPS, I strongly suspect, although
I've had Windows talk to me about how to manage the battery in a
desktop.

When using a UPS with Vista or above, a properly installed device is listed as a
"Battery" in Device Manager.


I didn't know that.

It's weird that Al seemed to want to sort out the missing battery in
Device Manager before going on to ask for help with the USB problem.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

On 6/25/2014 5:24 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 14:20:41 -0700, Charles Lindbergh
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:57:07 -0400, Al Drake wrote:

On 6/25/2014 4:18 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:18:00 -0400, Al Drake wrote:


1. I tried to look this over, but the online documentation is somewhat peculiar.
I see the USB ports have an ALWAYS ON power feature for charging gadgets such as
cell phones. I wonder if this could be causing a conflict with the UPS? Is
there a way to turn this off in the bios?

2. I was also wondering, if you download a Linux distro, such as Mint and run it
from a USB stick or DVD, it would be interesting to know if the Linux OS sees
the UPS. If not, then the problem probably is not with your Windows
installation.

3. You indicated you have UPS on your other machines, have you tried a different
UPS on this machine?

4. I vaguely remember that APC would use special USB cables. Are you using the
cable that came with the UPS?

5. Have you looked at the USB section of your device manager? Does it show an
unrecognized device?

I will try to change the USB configuration and see what happens. I
could try a mobo forum and see what others know.
I've never done anything with Linux so it's never to late I guess. I
have tried other UPS units. There are 2 sitting besides each other so
it's easy to swap the cables. I have used them all previously on many
computers and have had them quite some time. Actually they are now
discontinued they're so old. I've replaced the batteries regularly and
never had a need to get rid of them(3). I do have a newer unit I could
move to that location but I had no reason to do so. I can't see any UPS
devices being all that complicated. I assumed it was my Win7 install or
the board. I am using the provided cables as I know of no other way to
use these units.

There is a "unrecognized" device showing that appears when I plug in
the UPS. It's situated above 2 "USB Composite Device" references and
below "Intel(R) N10/ICH7 Family USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 27CC".


As I couldn't find the documentation for your bios USB settings, I would really
like to know what those options are.

Your device failed enumeration which can be due to a number of things.

The first thing I would do, in device manger with the unrecognized device, right
click and select "update driver software" then select search automatically for
updated software. Make sure the machine is connected to the Internet. You
might get lucky.

By the way, have you installed the latest version of Powerchute on the computer?
Is there driver software for your UPS available for download?


Well, I have just made the decision to dump this board and purchase
another. On the shelf it goes. No AHCI so SSD suffers and limited
features with very basic BIOS. The only thing I like is the DDR3
supporting 8Gigs. I wanted it for the 775 CPUs I have but now it's on to
something much better.

Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H LGA 1150 Z97 with Killer E2200 and Intel Gaming
Networking SATA Express M.2 SSD ATX Motherboard $180 Amazon

Crucial Ballistix Tactical Low Profile 32GB Kit (8GBx4) DDR3-1600 1.35V
UDIMM 240-Pin Memory Modules BLT4C8G3D1608ET3LX0 $319

Intel Core i7-4790 Processor - BX80646I7479 $309.

Now I have to decide what PSU to use and I'm off and running. Probably
build this beast next week while on Vaca.

I need this like another hole in my head.




So, we are giving up on the UPS for the time being? That is a shame.

By the way, what is your primary use for such a machine? Is it gaming?


I don't play games. I haven't since I had one of the first Atari game
consoles with Space Invaders and Pac Man. Then I met my wife in '74 and
we played different games together. Now I don't even use that old joy
stick any more.

This new build will have SoldWorks Premium 2014 and SolidCAM 2013
installed.

Al Drake wrote:
On 6/25/2014 6:20 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 6/25/2014 11:51 AM, Paul wrote:
Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:48:31 -0400, Paul wrote:

Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 03:32:34 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

On 6/24/2014 8:06 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 19:37:13 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

On 6/24/2014 5:06 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
I have been trying to install an APC UPS RS 1000 on one of my
newly
built systems but I keep getting a USB device error. For some
reason
this piece of hardware is not recognized and the software
will not
install. This USB failure is only happening with this UPS. I am
sure
all my USB ports are operational as I've tried them all. I am
using
some for USB keyboard and Bluetooth device and have swapped
them all
to make sure that wasn't the problem. After searching endlessly
for a
fix I noticed the missing "batteries" access in the device
manager. I
have also searched endlessly for a fix for this problem but all
I come
up with is posts regarding missing battery icon on laptops. I
installed Windows 7 a few days ago clean which went well or
so I
thought. The last thing I wanted to do is set up the UPS and
I'm all
set. I have one on all my systems and never had a problem of
this
nature ever. I tried different UPS but I get the same USB error
with
them all.

My last hope was that someone here has knowledge of this
issue and
knows what to do.

Thanks for any help.

Al.
The site requires registration, to get a copy of the software.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ase_sku=BR1000




I would look for a USB driver folder, and see whether there is
any
intention for the USB port to be a serial device (like an RS232
port).
In which case, the interface class is defined in Windows
already.

If it had a totally custom interface, there might be VID and PID
matching in the INF, that hints at the custom nature.

The manual will tell you to either install the Powerchute
*before*
plugging in the UPS for the first time. Or, it'll tell you
the UPS gets plugged in *after* Powerchute is installed.
The order dependence, exists for cases where a Windows generic
driver "hijacks" the device and prevents normal installation.

Since I can't look at the product software, that's about
all I can offer. I'm sure the clowns at APCC will be only
to happy to walk you through this.

Technical Support You own an APC product
800-555-2725
and you need technical assistance

If the unit was in front of me, I'd dig out a copy of
UVCView or USBView from Microsoft, and also check to
see if the device is registering or not (and the Config
information is visible).

HTH,
Paul
Thanks Paul.

To begin with I have the manual as I registered some years ago
when I
got my first APC UPS. I have 6 all working fine. Nothing is
mentioned
about this particular problem. I tried installing the SW first
but it
halts when it does not detect the USB handshaking. I tried
attaching the
UPS first but the USB error persists. Your first sentence is
confusing
to me as I have no idea what to look for by name and where to
look.
Would that be the System folder perhaps? I tried removing the
unknown
USB device and allowing a search of the Windows folder, the
Windows
installations disk and a HDD removed from another system that had
the
UPS working but I continually get the message the driver
installed is
correct or something to that affect.

I was concentrating on learning more about the lack of
batteries
indications in the device manager as I have connected this
particular
UPS without the software on other computers and let windows take
control
but not in this case obviously.

I have hesitated contacting APC tech support as I know it's
not a
faulty device as I have indicated it works on other systems.

So I can only conclude there is something missing on the one OS
install.

Yes? No?

Do you have legacy USB support (or some such description) enabled
in the UEFI /
BIOS?

I would thoroughly examine the UEFI / BIOS USB settings maybe play
with them a
bit.

Can you post a link to the documentation for your new motherboard?

I looked over BIOS and everything looked propper as all USB posts
are operational just not liking the UPS.

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3960#ov

This is the board I'm working with.
1. I tried to look this over, but the online documentation is
somewhat peculiar.
I see the USB ports have an ALWAYS ON power feature for charging
gadgets such as
cell phones. I wonder if this could be causing a conflict with the
UPS? Is
there a way to turn this off in the bios?

2. I was also wondering, if you download a Linux distro, such as
Mint and run it
from a USB stick or DVD, it would be interesting to know if the
Linux OS sees
the UPS. If not, then the problem probably is not with your Windows
installation.

3. You indicated you have UPS on your other machines, have you tried
a different
UPS on this machine?

4. I vaguely remember that APC would use special USB cables. Are
you using the
cable that came with the UPS?

5. Have you looked at the USB section of your device manager? Does
it show an
unrecognized device?
Regarding (1):

USB is a host to peripheral protocol. The host delivers +5VSB on
VBUS,
to power peripherals which do not have their own power source. This
is sufficient for many items with modest power requirements
(including
some 2.5" disk drives). It's part of the USB spec, to expect the
host to make power available on the VBUS wire. The UPS will not be
thrown off by this. And power is not supposed to flow in the other
direction - an exception to that, is self-powered USB hubs, which
lack the necessary relay to cut power flow when it would be possible
for it to flow in the wrong direction. Simple diodes are not enough
(too much drop). If your computer starts behaving weirdly after
a self-powered hub is plugged in, it could be current flowing up
the cable via VBUS (when it's not supposed to).

Charging features for phones require a couple things. Sufficient
power
from the +5VSB on the ATX supply (check the label on the side, and
assume the motherboard uses at least 1 ampere while sleeping). The D+
and
D- pins may have an encoding, done with strap resistors or otherwise,
which signals to the charging peripheral, the characteristics of the
power source. Without the encoding on D+/D-, some charging devices
may refuse to charge at all.

For (5), UVCView, USBView or the USBTreeView should show some
kind of entry when the UPS is plugged in. Even if no driver is
present, the config space of the USB device should be listed,
as well as information about whether endpoints formed or not
as a result of the connection. The information is not in a
human-friendly format, but any info is better than none at all.

Sites like this one, can help with the decoding chore.

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb5.shtml

Paul

You are right, he should not try disabling the USB feature I
referenced. Every
engineer I was trained with always designed and built perfect systems
which
comply perfectly with standards and theory.

And let's face it, changing a single switch in the bios requires a
lot of
effort. :-)

Charles, I try to concentrate on "likely" things. USB power
wouldn't be high on my list to check. And the "Always On" feature
is more likely to be an encoding on D+/D-, as bus power may be
present there in any case. Bus power should be there, to support
"wake" events, such as keyboard or mouse waking of the computer.

If the motherboard "nominates" some ports for goofy features (by
sporting a different color plastic for the connector tab), you can
always choose another port. Powder blue is for USB3, so that's not
a scary one. If a USB port had red plastic, perhaps that would
imply a special property. And if you're superstitious, you could
always try another port. One of the black colored USB2 ones.

Right now, I would be interested in UVCView, USBView, or USBTreeView,
to differentiate between a hardware or a software problem. If
absolutely nothing shows up, then it's some kind of hardware problem.
If you have a USB powered LED lamp, that can be used as a way
to see if bus power is available or not (in case a fuse opened).
You would plug the LED into one of the two USB ports in a "stack",
as a means of monitoring fuse state. While USB overcurrent should
also pop up on the screen, if the fuse opens, having a visual
indicator helps.

"1.1 or
110" on USB ports are arranged in "stacks of
two",
top to save a few pennies on extra fuses
and
caps

+5VSB ---- polyfuse ---+---- Upper_USB_Port VBUS (500ma max
USB2 --)
|
+---- Lower_USB_Port VBUS (500ma max
USB2 --)
| ^
Active_low, OC# overcurrent --+ +--- Monitor a port with a USB LED
lamp,
or any device with power
LEDs
on it

HTH,
Paul

Here you go Paul.

=========================== USB Port2 ===========================

Connection Status : Device failed enumeration
Port Chain : 1-2

======================== USB Device ========================

+++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++
Device Description : Unknown Device
Device ID : USB\VID_0000&PID_0000\5&339E9CE1&0&2
Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0017
(GUID_DEVCLASS_USB)
Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usb.inf
Legacy BusType : PNPBus
Class : USB
Service :
Enumerator : USB
Location Info : Port_#0002.Hub_#0001
Manufacturer Info : (Standard USB Host Controller)
Capabilities : Removable, RawDeviceOK
Address : 2
Problem Code : 43 (CM_PROB_FAILED_POST_START)
Power State : D3 (supported: D0, D2, D3, wake from D0,
wake from D2)

---------------- Connection Information ---------------
Connection Index : 0x02
Connection Status : 0x02 (DeviceFailedEnumeration)
Current Config Value : 0x00
Device Address : 0x00
Is Hub : 0x00 (no)
Number Of Open Pipes : 0x00 (0)
Device Bus Speed : 0x00 (Low-Speed)

------------------ Device Descriptor ------------------
bLength : 0x00 (0 bytes)

The suggestion here, is to look in setupapi.log for more info.
Which would certainly be the thing I'd recommend on WinXP,
less sure it would contain useful info on Windows 7. There
are several files similar to that in C:\Windows\inf.

http://janaxelson.com/forum/index.ph...c=736.5%3bwap2

I looked up this number.

36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driver...class-guid.htm

USB 36FC9E60-C465-11CF-8056-444553540000 USB host controllers
and hubs

And that could be a reference to the thing on the host side, rather than
the peripheral itself. Since the device config space info is not
available,
it probably means the motherboard hub didn't succeed in communicating
with the thing. The only thing weird about this report, is the
CM_PROB_FAILED_POST_START with the word "POST" in it. It implies
it did get half-way through the startup process, but then
disappeared. By half-way through, I'm referring to being
recognized as a HID input device, rather than the setup
being fully function. There are probably two steps, and it
failed half way through the first step.

*******

I looked up the APC UPS types, and got a match here.

http://www.microsoft-questions.com/m...-with-ups.aspx



HID\VID_051D&PID_0001.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0002.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0003.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"

Those are the kinds of VID/PID that the hardware enumeration
would find (if it got further along than your error indicates).
And hidbatt.sys is supposed to pick up from there. So first
it is detected as a HID device (human interface device
like a mouse or keyboard, or other slow speed input), and then
somehow the OS decides it is handled by hidbatt.sys . There
would likely be two driver files in the driver stack for it.

In Windows 7 C:\Windows\inf, the file input.inf contains this:

HID\VID_051D&PID_0001.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0002.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0003.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"

I'm guessing, that once the OS discovers new hardware,
gets the particular VID/PID, it finds a match on input.inf.
And some info there, causes hidbatt.sys to be used.

In battery.inf, I can find a reference to hidbatt and
also to APC. There could be different drivers, depending
on the UPS manufacturer, as listed in battery.inf.

APC.DeviceDesc = "APC UPS"

So that's what it looks like it is supposed to do. First
be discovered as input.inf HID device, then (somehow)
be discovered as battery.inf material.

*******

Would Linux find it ? Maybe. At this point, I'd be willing
to give that a shot. Run "dmesg" from a Terminal, and
see if the APC is detected or not.

Paul

Ok, so then if Linux finds the device how will that help when I switch
back to Windows? I'm not getting this................?

You're all ready to rip out the hardware and declare it
defective. If Linux sees the USB (properly) and Windows
does not, there is something funky about the Windows files.

*******

In some cases, cleaning out all the USB ENUM keys could
fix this.

http://www.robvanderwoude.com/devcon.php

RenewUSB.bat 11/06/2004

I had to run this script twice before my computer
accepted my new USB stick. This script will prompt
you for download if DEVCON isn't found.

On a x64 OS, you need an x64 Devcon. Which is *not* on the KB article
mentioned on that page. The download page has one for 32 bit (X86)
and it has IA64 (Itanium) and the Itanium isn't the same instruction
set as what is used on your PC. In typical MS fashion, the search
for devcon64 will send you on a wild goose chase.

******* From a previous post of mine...

In here, I386\DevCon.exe is suitable for Win7 x32. For
Devcon64, you have to look elsewhere.

http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;Q311272

For Devcon64, it's the usual Microsoft hayride... :-( Enjoy the trip.

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...evcon-exe.aspx

*******

Devcon.exe is a replacement for Device Manager, in the sense that
it gives access for the writing of scripts. You can tell devcon
to delete all the things with a certain name or a certain class.
While you can do this with the GUI version of Device Manager, if
you do it that way, the order of execution must be very explicit
and deliberate (i.e. delete your keyboard entry last). The idea
with Devcon, is to avoid the need to do GUI things, when you've
broken your keyboard and mouse by screwing around :-)

If you examine the RenewUSB.bat script with a text editor, you
can see how the whole process is to be carried out.

And naturally, before trying this, you'd have a backup of C:
around, just in case.

Paul

On 6/25/2014 8:33 PM, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 26/06/2014 01:16, Al Drake wrote:
Ok, so then if Linux finds the device how will that help when I switch
back to Windows? I'm not getting this................?

I guess it would point you towards a problem with your Windows
installation rather than a problem with the PC hardware and/or the UPS.

OK, that sounds right. So all I would have to do is a reinstall which
would be quicker than all the time spent to date finding this out. Maybe
a repair install? I still am not computer savvy enough to see exactly
what to look for and what went wrong to get me where I am now. I guess
I've been lucky with the other systems I put together and never had to
do and debugging of this nature.

Brian Gregory wrote:
On 26/06/2014 00:17, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:45:37 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"

wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:05:33 +0100, Brian Gregory wrote:

On 25/06/2014 00:15, Al Drake wrote:
Thanks for the reply Wolf K. I have the manual provided by the
manufacturer and found no such problem indicated. I am unable to even
get it installed so my thoughts are elsewhere. The foremost being the
lack of batteries indicated in device manager. I was hoping to get
this
resolved before I could even contact support.

it's a bit odd to use a UPS with a laptop.

You do know that only laptops have batteries in them?

OTOH, Al *did* refer to the system this way in his OP: "one of my newly
built systems". It seem unlikely that Al built a laptop, n'est-ce pas?

He's referring to the batteries in the UPS, I strongly suspect, although
I've had Windows talk to me about how to manage the battery in a
desktop.

When using a UPS with Vista or above, a properly installed device is
listed as a
"Battery" in Device Manager.


I didn't know that.

It's weird that Al seemed to want to sort out the missing battery in
Device Manager before going on to ask for help with the USB problem.


You can also try looking in battery.inf, for the lines with
American Power Systems in them.

APC.DeviceDesc = "APC UPS"

It's my suspicion, looking at the files in my Windows 7 VM, that
input.inf and battery.inf have some relationship to the
piece of hardware at hand. "American Power Systems" or "APC"
entries.

There are three chips, and they should function more or
less, like a RS232 serial adapter (low speed comm channel).
The two INF files in question, hint at more of the details,
as to what driver file (built-in) would be used.

HID\VID_051D&PID_0001.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0002.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0003.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"

It's still possible to have UPS designs, that have no
support in Windows. And for those, you won't be getting
any icons until you use the proprietary CD in the UPS box.

In WinXP, my UPS has a communications channel, but there
is no battery icon, and about all that happens is the UPS
tells the computer to shut off. My APC UPS is an older
one, without a processor inside it, and lots of jelly-bean
logic chips. The "two minute warning" would be a hardware
state machine.

Paul

Al Drake wrote:
On 6/25/2014 8:33 PM, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 26/06/2014 01:16, Al Drake wrote:
Ok, so then if Linux finds the device how will that help when I switch
back to Windows? I'm not getting this................?

I guess it would point you towards a problem with your Windows
installation rather than a problem with the PC hardware and/or the UPS.

OK, that sounds right. So all I would have to do is a reinstall which
would be quicker than all the time spent to date finding this out. Maybe
a repair install? I still am not computer savvy enough to see exactly
what to look for and what went wrong to get me where I am now. I guess
I've been lucky with the other systems I put together and never had to
do and debugging of this nature.

I would agree, that "level and reload" can fix a lot of ills.

I think you're very computer savvy, in that you find the
most pragmatic solution (least time spent mulling the details),
and getting the system up and running. I like to torture
my systems... Different approach.

What you could do, with your large collection of storage
devices, is connect an empty one (all by itself), do a new install
(using the key on your current machine), and leave the NIC cable
disconnected (so no possible communications with Microsoft).
Without activation, it should run for at least three days,
without getting in your way. And then you can check
in Device Manager and the Task Bar, for the appropriate
UPS stuff you're after.

If the UPS appears, then you know the hardware is OK, and the
other disk drive with Windows 7 on it, has a problem in the
Windows files. Like maybe something in the Registry.

Paul

On 6/25/2014 8:37 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 6/25/2014 6:20 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 6/25/2014 11:51 AM, Paul wrote:
Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:48:31 -0400, Paul wrote:

Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 03:32:34 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

On 6/24/2014 8:06 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 19:37:13 -0400, Al Drake
wrote:

On 6/24/2014 5:06 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
I have been trying to install an APC UPS RS 1000 on one of my
newly
built systems but I keep getting a USB device error. For some
reason
this piece of hardware is not recognized and the software
will not
install. This USB failure is only happening with this UPS.
I am
sure
all my USB ports are operational as I've tried them all. I am
using
some for USB keyboard and Bluetooth device and have swapped
them all
to make sure that wasn't the problem. After searching
endlessly
for a
fix I noticed the missing "batteries" access in the device
manager. I
have also searched endlessly for a fix for this problem but
all
I come
up with is posts regarding missing battery icon on laptops. I
installed Windows 7 a few days ago clean which went well or
so I
thought. The last thing I wanted to do is set up the UPS and
I'm all
set. I have one on all my systems and never had a problem of
this
nature ever. I tried different UPS but I get the same USB
error
with
them all.

My last hope was that someone here has knowledge of this
issue and
knows what to do.

Thanks for any help.

Al.
The site requires registration, to get a copy of the software.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...ase_sku=BR1000




I would look for a USB driver folder, and see whether there is
any
intention for the USB port to be a serial device (like an RS232
port).
In which case, the interface class is defined in Windows
already.

If it had a totally custom interface, there might be VID and
PID
matching in the INF, that hints at the custom nature.

The manual will tell you to either install the Powerchute
*before*
plugging in the UPS for the first time. Or, it'll tell you
the UPS gets plugged in *after* Powerchute is installed.
The order dependence, exists for cases where a Windows generic
driver "hijacks" the device and prevents normal installation.

Since I can't look at the product software, that's about
all I can offer. I'm sure the clowns at APCC will be only
to happy to walk you through this.

Technical Support You own an APC product
800-555-2725
and you need technical assistance

If the unit was in front of me, I'd dig out a copy of
UVCView or USBView from Microsoft, and also check to
see if the device is registering or not (and the Config
information is visible).

HTH,
Paul
Thanks Paul.

To begin with I have the manual as I registered some years ago
when I
got my first APC UPS. I have 6 all working fine. Nothing is
mentioned
about this particular problem. I tried installing the SW first
but it
halts when it does not detect the USB handshaking. I tried
attaching the
UPS first but the USB error persists. Your first sentence is
confusing
to me as I have no idea what to look for by name and where to
look.
Would that be the System folder perhaps? I tried removing the
unknown
USB device and allowing a search of the Windows folder, the
Windows
installations disk and a HDD removed from another system that
had
the
UPS working but I continually get the message the driver
installed is
correct or something to that affect.

I was concentrating on learning more about the lack of
batteries
indications in the device manager as I have connected this
particular
UPS without the software on other computers and let windows take
control
but not in this case obviously.

I have hesitated contacting APC tech support as I know it's
not a
faulty device as I have indicated it works on other systems.

So I can only conclude there is something missing on the
one OS
install.

Yes? No?

Do you have legacy USB support (or some such description) enabled
in the UEFI /
BIOS?

I would thoroughly examine the UEFI / BIOS USB settings maybe
play
with them a
bit.

Can you post a link to the documentation for your new
motherboard?

I looked over BIOS and everything looked propper as all USB posts
are operational just not liking the UPS.

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3960#ov

This is the board I'm working with.
1. I tried to look this over, but the online documentation is
somewhat peculiar.
I see the USB ports have an ALWAYS ON power feature for charging
gadgets such as
cell phones. I wonder if this could be causing a conflict with the
UPS? Is
there a way to turn this off in the bios?

2. I was also wondering, if you download a Linux distro, such as
Mint and run it
from a USB stick or DVD, it would be interesting to know if the
Linux OS sees
the UPS. If not, then the problem probably is not with your Windows
installation.

3. You indicated you have UPS on your other machines, have you
tried
a different
UPS on this machine?

4. I vaguely remember that APC would use special USB cables. Are
you using the
cable that came with the UPS?

5. Have you looked at the USB section of your device manager? Does
it show an
unrecognized device?
Regarding (1):

USB is a host to peripheral protocol. The host delivers +5VSB on
VBUS,
to power peripherals which do not have their own power source. This
is sufficient for many items with modest power requirements
(including
some 2.5" disk drives). It's part of the USB spec, to expect the
host to make power available on the VBUS wire. The UPS will not be
thrown off by this. And power is not supposed to flow in the other
direction - an exception to that, is self-powered USB hubs, which
lack the necessary relay to cut power flow when it would be possible
for it to flow in the wrong direction. Simple diodes are not enough
(too much drop). If your computer starts behaving weirdly after
a self-powered hub is plugged in, it could be current flowing up
the cable via VBUS (when it's not supposed to).

Charging features for phones require a couple things. Sufficient
power
from the +5VSB on the ATX supply (check the label on the side, and
assume the motherboard uses at least 1 ampere while sleeping).
The D+
and
D- pins may have an encoding, done with strap resistors or
otherwise,
which signals to the charging peripheral, the characteristics of the
power source. Without the encoding on D+/D-, some charging devices
may refuse to charge at all.

For (5), UVCView, USBView or the USBTreeView should show some
kind of entry when the UPS is plugged in. Even if no driver is
present, the config space of the USB device should be listed,
as well as information about whether endpoints formed or not
as a result of the connection. The information is not in a
human-friendly format, but any info is better than none at all.

Sites like this one, can help with the decoding chore.

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb5.shtml

Paul

You are right, he should not try disabling the USB feature I
referenced. Every
engineer I was trained with always designed and built perfect systems
which
comply perfectly with standards and theory.

And let's face it, changing a single switch in the bios requires a
lot of
effort. :-)

Charles, I try to concentrate on "likely" things. USB power
wouldn't be high on my list to check. And the "Always On" feature
is more likely to be an encoding on D+/D-, as bus power may be
present there in any case. Bus power should be there, to support
"wake" events, such as keyboard or mouse waking of the computer.

If the motherboard "nominates" some ports for goofy features (by
sporting a different color plastic for the connector tab), you can
always choose another port. Powder blue is for USB3, so that's not
a scary one. If a USB port had red plastic, perhaps that would
imply a special property. And if you're superstitious, you could
always try another port. One of the black colored USB2 ones.

Right now, I would be interested in UVCView, USBView, or USBTreeView,
to differentiate between a hardware or a software problem. If
absolutely nothing shows up, then it's some kind of hardware problem.
If you have a USB powered LED lamp, that can be used as a way
to see if bus power is available or not (in case a fuse opened).
You would plug the LED into one of the two USB ports in a "stack",
as a means of monitoring fuse state. While USB overcurrent should
also pop up on the screen, if the fuse opens, having a visual
indicator helps.

"1.1 or
110" on USB ports are arranged in "stacks of
two",
top to save a few pennies on extra
fuses and
caps

+5VSB ---- polyfuse ---+---- Upper_USB_Port VBUS (500ma max
USB2 --)
|
+---- Lower_USB_Port VBUS (500ma max
USB2 --)
| ^
Active_low, OC# overcurrent --+ +--- Monitor a port with a USB
LED
lamp,
or any device with power
LEDs
on it

HTH,
Paul

Here you go Paul.

=========================== USB Port2 ===========================

Connection Status : Device failed enumeration
Port Chain : 1-2

======================== USB Device ========================

+++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++
Device Description : Unknown Device
Device ID : USB\VID_0000&PID_0000\5&339E9CE1&0&2
Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0017
(GUID_DEVCLASS_USB)
Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usb.inf
Legacy BusType : PNPBus
Class : USB
Service :
Enumerator : USB
Location Info : Port_#0002.Hub_#0001
Manufacturer Info : (Standard USB Host Controller)
Capabilities : Removable, RawDeviceOK
Address : 2
Problem Code : 43 (CM_PROB_FAILED_POST_START)
Power State : D3 (supported: D0, D2, D3, wake from D0,
wake from D2)

---------------- Connection Information ---------------
Connection Index : 0x02
Connection Status : 0x02 (DeviceFailedEnumeration)
Current Config Value : 0x00
Device Address : 0x00
Is Hub : 0x00 (no)
Number Of Open Pipes : 0x00 (0)
Device Bus Speed : 0x00 (Low-Speed)

------------------ Device Descriptor ------------------
bLength : 0x00 (0 bytes)

The suggestion here, is to look in setupapi.log for more info.
Which would certainly be the thing I'd recommend on WinXP,
less sure it would contain useful info on Windows 7. There
are several files similar to that in C:\Windows\inf.

http://janaxelson.com/forum/index.ph...c=736.5%3bwap2

I looked up this number.

36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driver...class-guid.htm

USB 36FC9E60-C465-11CF-8056-444553540000 USB host controllers
and hubs

And that could be a reference to the thing on the host side, rather than
the peripheral itself. Since the device config space info is not
available,
it probably means the motherboard hub didn't succeed in communicating
with the thing. The only thing weird about this report, is the
CM_PROB_FAILED_POST_START with the word "POST" in it. It implies
it did get half-way through the startup process, but then
disappeared. By half-way through, I'm referring to being
recognized as a HID input device, rather than the setup
being fully function. There are probably two steps, and it
failed half way through the first step.

*******

I looked up the APC UPS types, and got a match here.

http://www.microsoft-questions.com/m...-with-ups.aspx



HID\VID_051D&PID_0001.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0002.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0003.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"

Those are the kinds of VID/PID that the hardware enumeration
would find (if it got further along than your error indicates).
And hidbatt.sys is supposed to pick up from there. So first
it is detected as a HID device (human interface device
like a mouse or keyboard, or other slow speed input), and then
somehow the OS decides it is handled by hidbatt.sys . There
would likely be two driver files in the driver stack for it.

In Windows 7 C:\Windows\inf, the file input.inf contains this:

HID\VID_051D&PID_0001.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0002.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"
HID\VID_051D&PID_0003.DeviceDesc="APC Battery BackUP"

I'm guessing, that once the OS discovers new hardware,
gets the particular VID/PID, it finds a match on input.inf.
And some info there, causes hidbatt.sys to be used.

In battery.inf, I can find a reference to hidbatt and
also to APC. There could be different drivers, depending
on the UPS manufacturer, as listed in battery.inf.

APC.DeviceDesc = "APC UPS"

So that's what it looks like it is supposed to do. First
be discovered as input.inf HID device, then (somehow)
be discovered as battery.inf material.

*******

Would Linux find it ? Maybe. At this point, I'd be willing
to give that a shot. Run "dmesg" from a Terminal, and
see if the APC is detected or not.

Paul

Ok, so then if Linux finds the device how will that help when I
switch back to Windows? I'm not getting this................?

You're all ready to rip out the hardware and declare it
defective.

No Paul. Not at all. I would most likely put it back under the bench and
cover it back up leaving everything intact.


If Linux sees the USB (properly) and Windows
does not, there is something funky about the Windows files.

This was my first impression and why I declined to assume it was the
UPS and contact support. I already new by trying other UPS devices that
it was Windows.


*******

In some cases, cleaning out all the USB ENUM keys could
fix this.

Thanks for this Paul. I will be happy to pursue this per your advice.


http://www.robvanderwoude.com/devcon.php

RenewUSB.bat 11/06/2004

I had to run this script twice before my computer
accepted my new USB stick. This script will prompt
you for download if DEVCON isn't found.

On a x64 OS, you need an x64 Devcon. Which is *not* on the KB article
mentioned on that page. The download page has one for 32 bit (X86)
and it has IA64 (Itanium) and the Itanium isn't the same instruction
set as what is used on your PC. In typical MS fashion, the search
for devcon64 will send you on a wild goose chase.

******* From a previous post of mine...

In here, I386\DevCon.exe is suitable for Win7 x32. For
Devcon64, you have to look elsewhere.

http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;Q311272

For Devcon64, it's the usual Microsoft hayride... :-( Enjoy the trip.

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...evcon-exe.aspx


*******

Devcon.exe is a replacement for Device Manager, in the sense that
it gives access for the writing of scripts. You can tell devcon
to delete all the things with a certain name or a certain class.
While you can do this with the GUI version of Device Manager, if
you do it that way, the order of execution must be very explicit
and deliberate (i.e. delete your keyboard entry last). The idea
with Devcon, is to avoid the need to do GUI things, when you've
broken your keyboard and mouse by screwing around :-)

If you examine the RenewUSB.bat script with a text editor, you
can see how the whole process is to be carried out.

And naturally, before trying this, you'd have a backup of C:
around, just in case.

Ok, so having Win7 64 Bit I'm in for a circus ride then. Now I have to
decide how much time I want to give up out of my time left on this happy
planet while still employed. and is this box really worth it when
it's most likely going back under that bench anyway with the limits it
has. Ater all it's only a 775 socket/ Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83 GHz
1333 MHz (OC).

I'll really use a high end build in a practical sense and have just as
much fun using my hands and not the limits I have in the gray matter
category.

You see Paul I've been a machinist for 49 years. Not much on the IT
scene I'm afraid.