Newsgroup reader for Win7 and Win8

Ken Springer wrote:
On 1/26/15 1:22 AM, . . .winston wrote:
ps56k wrote:
OK - yup... still running XP and Outlook Express.
SO - getting forced to migrate to Win7,
and will probably go with WLM for email,
but what is suggested for reading Newsgroups - like this one ???


I used WLM and SeaMonkey.

Quite a few folks will complain about WLM lack of quoting properly
impacting threading.

WLM's design intent (and has been since version 2011 was released) is
for use with a Microsoft account and Hotmail type email accounts using
the http/DeltaSync protocol (Hotmail type accounts are
Hotmail/Live/MSN/Outlook.com are all are automatically Microsoft
accounts).

A question, ...winston,

But does design intent prevent MS from having proper quoting?

snip


In MSFT's eyes it very well may be.

Quoting in WLM was present in the first two initial releases (Wave 2 and
Wave 3 - version 2008 and 2009). Changes made to accomodate other
integration features across other suite products and the online sync
services overwrote code in final beta (Wave 4, version 2011)rendering
the plain text quoting option to prepend a character for quoting
inoperable and subsequently releasing 2011 RTM UI without the plain text
option.

MSFT's actions had foundation in two primary areas
1. Code that overwrote was more important than quoting since html
messages (the default format and consistent with Hotmail web UI) was
still intact and delineated properly and supported threading for
conversation. The web UI also provided plain text as an option and
inserted the '' character for plain text replies.
2. The removal of that feature was classifed as 'design intent' and in
doing so served significant support response purposes - it ruled out the
option for any and all requests to restore the feature (i.e. no 'Will
consider'; no 'will fix in future releases or QFE patches'; no 'feedback
option from support to development') thus only one common support
response (Feature no longer available).

Even though there was a 2012 version of Windows Essentials releases (the
feature set in WLM was common to 2011). The primary reason for 2012 RTM
Windows Essentials and subsequent QFE's was to release PhotoGallery and
Movie Maker without Live 'branding' as one single bundled product,
replace Live Mesh with SkyDrive, replace Messenger with Skype, and
increased integration across the entire suite of products and the web UI
Hotmail/Outlook.com services and in the case of PhotoGallery/Movie Maker
additional features for social media sharing.


Bottom line - plain text quoting in WLM was a dead end never to be
considered or restored. With the advent of 8.0/8.1 included mail client
and all resources assigned to that product for the future (including
Win10) Windows Essentials is legacy ware with the only possibility of
any activity release or QFE patches centered upon continued integration
with the web UI...which coincidentally has been the design intent (as
noted in my earlier post) since the release of the 2011 version
(Fyi..2012 Windows Essentials has had 4 QFE's and all centered on that
same objective).

Does any of this prevent MSFT from implementing proper quoting ?
- Without any resources assigned to WLM then implementing proper
quoting at this stage wouldn't even be a distant pipe dream



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On 25 Jan 2015, "ps56k" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

OK - yup... still running XP and Outlook Express.
SO - getting forced to migrate to Win7,
and will probably go with WLM for email,
but what is suggested for reading Newsgroups - like this one ???

I like Thunderbird very much for email, but I despise it for
newsgroups. For nntp I continue to use Xnews as I have for years.

.. . .winston wrote:
ps56k wrote:
OK - yup... still running XP and Outlook Express.
SO - getting forced to migrate to Win7,
and will probably go with WLM for email,
but what is suggested for reading Newsgroups - like this one ???


I used WLM and SeaMonkey.

Quite a few folks will complain about WLM lack of quoting properly
impacting threading.

WLM's design intent (and has been since version 2011 was released) is
for use with a Microsoft account and Hotmail type email accounts using
the http/DeltaSync protocol (Hotmail type accounts are
Hotmail/Live/MSN/Outlook.com are all are automatically Microsoft
accounts).

Additionally use of a Microsoft Account signon in WLM to Microsoft
services provides integration across other Windows Essential products
(Photo Gallery - Movie Maker and synchronization or use with online
services such as OneDrive, Contacts, and Calendar)

You can obtain all versions of WLM (2009, 2011, 2012) via the
following links (which are direct downloads to the software on
Microsoft's servers)

Full version 2012 installer
http://g.live.com/1rewlive5-all/en/wlsetup-all.exe

Web Version 2012 Installer – English Language Version
http://g.live.com/1rewlive5-web/en/wlsetup-web.exe

Full Version 2011 Installer – English Language version
http://g.live.com/1rewlive4-all/en/wlsetup-all.exe

Web Version 2011 Installer – English Language Version
http://g.live.com/1rewlive4-web/en/wlsetup-web.exe

Full Version 2009 Installer English Language version
http://g.live.com/1rewlive3/en/wlsetup-all.exe

Web Version 2009 Installer – English Language Version
http://g.live.com/1rewlive3/en/wlsetup-web.exe

Note: Direct download links above are for the English language
installer. For a different country replace the ‘en’ in the above
link(s) with your local language code which can be found in the
following pdf file.

https://liveunplugged.files.wordpres...-downloads.pdf


On the other hand if you prefer SeaMonkey it (Browser and Mail/News
Client) can be downloaded he
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/


SeaMonkey is what I use and prefer. I know though, many people do not
see it as a convenience to have their Mail/News combined with a browser.
bj

On 25 Jan 2015, Dave Doe wrote in alt.windows7.general:

I recomend Microplanet Gravity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroPlanet_Gravity

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpgravity/

http://mpgravity.sourceforge.net/

Not to discourage anyone from trying it out - it may be just the ticket
for them - but I dislike Gravity. I was an early adopter and paid for a
license before it went freeware, and it worked really well for a dial-
up user like myself at the time. However, it was missing some features
that I now regard as essential. It has no archive or folder feature.
Yes, you could mark articles as undeletable, but then they are always
in view. At that time the database format was very fragile and would
frequently become corrupted, and you'd have to delete it and start
over. There were a few other annoying things that I have forgotten, but
those were the main ones. The features that made it good for dial-up
(you could download headers, go offline, tag the ones you wanted to
read, then go back online and download the articles) are not an
advantage with an always on connection.

I believe Gravity is still being developed, so I suppose things have
been fixed or improved and new features added since I got off the bus.

On 26/01/2015 16:24, Ken Springer wrote:


But does design intent prevent MS from having proper quoting?

snip



There is no problem with quoting if you start using HTML. We are in
2015 and HTML is the norm for everything. Usenet Newsgroups came into
being when HTML was still in its infancy state. It is matured now and
people should be using it. It is free like free air we breathe.

On 26/01/2015 16:31, Stormin' Norman wrote:
Admittedly, the word binary has some negative connotations on Usenet.


Only in the eyes of backward people with wicked minds like all the
octogenarian ion this newsgroup. Hey but who cares. We do what we
think is right. If we decide to do everything based on people's wishes
then we won't be able to invent anything. We would still be living in
the stone age era and believing that the world is flat. There is still a
certain faith that believes in the oldest holly book and now is in
conflict with the rest of the world. Enjoy the copy of my microchip
attached here!!

Microchip http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/976x549/p02hqbgp.jpg

On 25/01/2015 22:29, ps56k wrote:
OK - yup... still running XP and Outlook Express.
SO - getting forced to migrate to Win7,
and will probably go with WLM for email,
but what is suggested for reading Newsgroups - like this one ???


You have received hundreds of replies and I am sure you haven't had the
time to read all of them.

My suggestion is to use anything that turns you on as long as it is
Thunderbird. The reason for this suggestion is that you get active
support for it either here or on Mozilla Newsgroups. You may not know
this but Mozilla have their own dedicated newsgroups as well as web
based Forums and they are supported by active moderators who will direct
you to official Mozilla documents.

Good luck.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 01:42:17 +0000, Good Guy wrote:

On 26/01/2015 16:31, Stormin' Norman wrote:
Admittedly, the word binary has some negative connotations on Usenet.

Only in the eyes of backward people with wicked minds like all the
octogenarian ion this newsgroup. Hey but who cares. We do what we
think is right. If we decide to do everything based on people's wishes
then we won't be able to invent anything. We would still be living in
the stone age era and believing that the world is flat. There is still a
certain faith that believes in the oldest holly book and now is in
conflict with the rest of the world. Enjoy the copy of my microchip
attached here!!

Can we now add anti-Semitism to your qualifications?

Microchip http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/976x549/p02hqbgp.jpg

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

In article , rednoise9
@REMOVETHIScomcast.net, Nil says...

On 25 Jan 2015, Dave Doe wrote in alt.windows7.general:

I recomend Microplanet Gravity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroPlanet_Gravity

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpgravity/

http://mpgravity.sourceforge.net/

Not to discourage anyone from trying it out - it may be just the ticket
for them - but I dislike Gravity. I was an early adopter and paid for a
license before it went freeware, and it worked really well for a dial-
up user like myself at the time. However, it was missing some features
that I now regard as essential. It has no archive or folder feature.
Yes, you could mark articles as undeletable, but then they are always
in view. At that time the database format was very fragile and would

No they're not - the default filter is "Unread Articles". To see
protected ones (and one would presume they're read), you change the
filter to Protected.

frequently become corrupted, and you'd have to delete it and start
over. There were a few other annoying things that I have forgotten, but
those were the main ones. The features that made it good for dial-up
(you could download headers, go offline, tag the ones you wanted to
read, then go back online and download the articles) are not an
advantage with an always on connection.

I believe Gravity is still being developed, so I suppose things have
been fixed or improved and new features added since I got off the bus.

Gravity sure did have some corruption problems with earlier versions.
They're long gone.
I don't think it's been particularly active (in development) for a wee
while now.
But then, the latest build's pretty good, and probably doesn't need
much.

I think it's biggest missing feature is that it only does single
threaded article retrieving. That doesn't bother me - if I need to
catch up, I use it's powerful VCR feature Shiftv and let it go and
do it's thing.

I think it's an awesome NG reader.

--
Duncan.

Good Guy wrote:
On 26/01/2015 16:24, Ken Springer wrote:


But does design intent prevent MS from having proper quoting?

snip



There is no problem with quoting if you start using HTML. We are in
2015 and HTML is the norm for everything. Usenet Newsgroups came into
being when HTML was still in its infancy state. It is matured now and
people should be using it. It is free like free air we breathe.

Seeing as I have HTML completely turned off in my newsreader,
I guess it is matured now. It's matured enough to get
turned off :-)

I guess I have surpassed the year 2015, and now I'm in the
year 2016. See ya later.

Paul

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 01:32:12 +0000, Good Guy
wrote:

There is no problem with quoting if you start using HTML. We are in
2015 and HTML is the norm for everything. Usenet Newsgroups came into
being when HTML was still in its infancy state. It is matured now and
people should be using it.

Usenet predated HTML by at least a decade. If you call -10 an infancy state,
then yeah.

--

Char Jackson

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 01:32:12 +0000, Good Guy wrote:

There is no problem with quoting if you start using HTML. We are in
2015 and HTML is the norm for everything.

I don't think "norm" means what you think it means.

Usenet Newsgroups came into
being when HTML was still in its infancy state. It is matured now and
people should be using it.

Usenet newsgroups (apart from those with "binaries" in their names)
are a text medium. If you use HTML, conforming newsreaders will
display the literal characters, making hash of your articles. And
some news servers may not carry them, considering them spam because
of he HTML.

Usenet is not email, just as it's not the Web, despite some people's
attempts to treat it as though it were.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

On 26/01/2015 12:14, HS wrote:
I use Thundebird as my email client.

Just started using FossaMail as news reader. It is
a Thunderbird clone

http://www.fossamail.org/

HS

Interesting.
I'll have a look at it.

Fokke

Stan Brown wrote:

Usenet newsgroups (apart from those with "binaries" in their
names) are a text medium. If you use HTML, conforming newsreaders
will display the literal characters, making hash of your articles.
And some news servers may not carry them, considering them spam
because of he HTML.

Usenet is not email, just as it's not the Web, despite some
people's attempts to treat it as though it were.

+1


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

"JiiPee" wrote in message
...
On 25/01/2015 22:29, ps56k wrote:
OK - yup... still running XP and Outlook Express.
SO - getting forced to migrate to Win7,
and will probably go with WLM for email,
but what is suggested for reading Newsgroups - like this one ???


Why not thunderbird? I use it and like it. It has a good newsgroup access
as well.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


You can also try OE6 for Win7/8 here
http://runasxp.com/Forum-Outlook-Exp...or-Windows-7-8

I use on both my Win7 and Win8 installations.

Dennis