Newsgroup reader for Win7 and Win8

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 03:19:16 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

IMHO, the main reason Thunderbird sucks as a mail reader is due to it's
inability to deal with multipart yenc binaries.

You get yEnc files sent to you by e-mail? ;-o

--
s|b

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 15:08:14 -0800, wrote:

Take a look at Forte Agent for Newsgroups and Email.

+1 as a newsreader

For e-mail, I use TB.

--
s|b

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 10:07:14 +0000, Bill wrote:

Forte Free agent was still there if you dig on their site.

"dig" is a big word. 3.3 (the last Free Agent) can be downloaded he
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/download-all.php

After 30 days of trial (full version) it will automatically revert to
Free Agent.

--
s|b

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 01:32:12 +0000, Good Guy wrote:

There is no problem with quoting if you start using HTML. We are in
2015 and HTML is the norm for everything. Usenet Newsgroups came into
being when HTML was still in its infancy state. It is matured now and
people should be using it. It is free like free air we breathe.

You're still in a (global) kill filter, but I decided to give you
another chance and read what you have to say. Unfortunately, I see
you're still an asocial asshole, posting HTML where it is not allowed or
wanted. So I'll go back to ignoring you now...

--
s|b

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 22:18:24 +0100, "s|b" wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 15:08:14 -0800, wrote:

Take a look at Forte Agent for Newsgroups and Email.

+1 as a newsreader

For e-mail, I use TB.

What problems do you see with Agent's Email? I've used it for years, it works
great and I do save a lot of emails, etc for long periods of time and it works
great in retaining them. And, I really like the filter abilities - works great!

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 23:08:47 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 14:15:48 -0800, wrote:

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 22:18:24 +0100, "s|b" wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 15:08:14 -0800, wrote:

Take a look at Forte Agent for Newsgroups and Email.

+1 as a newsreader

For e-mail, I use TB.

What problems do you see with Agent's Email? I've used it for years, it works
great and I do save a lot of emails, etc for long periods of time and it works
great in retaining them. And, I really like the filter abilities - works great!

1. No imap support

Ok, I do not use Imap - did not know what it was - looked it up on Internet, but
do not do a number of things that it offers. Just a basic email user I guess

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 14:15:48 -0800, wrote:

What problems do you see with Agent's Email? I've used it for years, it works
great and I do save a lot of emails, etc for long periods of time and it works
great in retaining them. And, I really like the filter abilities - works great!

I want to keep mail and news apart for one. And TB just offers /more/
than Agent as a mailclient. I work with several accounts and a dozen
identities which is easy to use in TB. TB also has Junk settings that
Agent doesn't offer and it supports several add-ons.

--
s|b

On 1/26/15 11:56 AM, . . .winston wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
On 1/26/15 1:22 AM, . . .winston wrote:
ps56k wrote:
OK - yup... still running XP and Outlook Express.
SO - getting forced to migrate to Win7,
and will probably go with WLM for email,
but what is suggested for reading Newsgroups - like this one ???


I used WLM and SeaMonkey.

Quite a few folks will complain about WLM lack of quoting properly
impacting threading.

WLM's design intent (and has been since version 2011 was released) is
for use with a Microsoft account and Hotmail type email accounts using
the http/DeltaSync protocol (Hotmail type accounts are
Hotmail/Live/MSN/Outlook.com are all are automatically Microsoft
accounts).

A question, ...winston,

But does design intent prevent MS from having proper quoting?

snip


In MSFT's eyes it very well may be.

Quoting in WLM was present in the first two initial releases (Wave 2 and
Wave 3 - version 2008 and 2009). Changes made to accomodate other
integration features across other suite products and the online sync
services overwrote code in final beta (Wave 4, version 2011)rendering
the plain text quoting option to prepend a character for quoting
inoperable and subsequently releasing 2011 RTM UI without the plain text
option.

MSFT's actions had foundation in two primary areas
1. Code that overwrote was more important than quoting since html
messages (the default format and consistent with Hotmail web UI) was
still intact and delineated properly and supported threading for
conversation. The web UI also provided plain text as an option and
inserted the '' character for plain text replies.
2. The removal of that feature was classifed as 'design intent' and in
doing so served significant support response purposes - it ruled out the
option for any and all requests to restore the feature (i.e. no 'Will
consider'; no 'will fix in future releases or QFE patches'; no 'feedback
option from support to development') thus only one common support
response (Feature no longer available).

To me, that just sounds more like political spin to convince people MS
doesn't feel like it has to do a good job. Any old thing that halfway
works is just fine. IOW, substandard work.

Even though there was a 2012 version of Windows Essentials releases (the
feature set in WLM was common to 2011). The primary reason for 2012 RTM
Windows Essentials and subsequent QFE's was to release PhotoGallery and
Movie Maker without Live 'branding' as one single bundled product,
replace Live Mesh with SkyDrive, replace Messenger with Skype, and
increased integration across the entire suite of products and the web UI
Hotmail/Outlook.com services and in the case of PhotoGallery/Movie Maker
additional features for social media sharing.

I had to look up QFE, which one site called it Quick Fix Engineering
(sounds like a fancy phrase for a bandaid or patch to me LOL) and
attributes it to MS. Another definition of listed is Quest for
Excellence, which I've never attached to MS's work in general.

I am still baffled as to why doing something correctly interferes with
integration of products. In this case, the question is simply proper
formatting of a message, just as are periods, commas, etc. I see no way
it has anything to do with how well things can be made to work together
seamlessly.

Bottom line - plain text quoting in WLM was a dead end never to be
considered or restored. With the advent of 8.0/8.1 included mail client
and all resources assigned to that product for the future (including
Win10) Windows Essentials is legacy ware with the only possibility of
any activity release or QFE patches centered upon continued integration
with the web UI...which coincidentally has been the design intent (as
noted in my earlier post) since the release of the 2011 version
(Fyi..2012 Windows Essentials has had 4 QFE's and all centered on that
same objective).

Does any of this prevent MSFT from implementing proper quoting ?
- Without any resources assigned to WLM then implementing proper
quoting at this stage wouldn't even be a distant pipe dream

Then my next question is, does the current MS product quote properly,
assuming it has text only capability?


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 33.1
Thunderbird 31.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Ken Springer wrote:
On 1/26/15 11:56 AM, . . .winston wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
On 1/26/15 1:22 AM, . . .winston wrote:

Quoting in WLM was present in the first two initial releases (Wave 2 and
Wave 3 - version 2008 and 2009). Changes made to accomodate other
integration features across other suite products and the online sync
services overwrote code in final beta (Wave 4, version 2011)rendering
the plain text quoting option to prepend a character for quoting
inoperable and subsequently releasing 2011 RTM UI without the plain text
option.

MSFT's actions had foundation in two primary areas
1. Code that overwrote was more important than quoting since html
messages (the default format and consistent with Hotmail web UI) was
still intact and delineated properly and supported threading for
conversation. The web UI also provided plain text as an option and
inserted the '' character for plain text replies.
2. The removal of that feature was classifed as 'design intent' and in
doing so served significant support response purposes - it ruled out the
option for any and all requests to restore the feature (i.e. no 'Will
consider'; no 'will fix in future releases or QFE patches'; no 'feedback
option from support to development') thus only one common support
response (Feature no longer available).

To me, that just sounds more like political spin to convince people MS
doesn't feel like it has to do a good job.

All true. Priorties changed. Syncrhonizaton was more important. Why ?
One of Windows Live Essentials (WLE) and later Windows Essentials
primary purposes was to obtain telemetric data on the integrated
services in the cloud from an in-the-field' subset of the 6 million
strong Hotmail user population by using the suite of programs (Mail,
Messenger, PhotoGallery, Contacts, Calendar)

Plain text quoting would never provide that telemetric info. The
feature was no longer of value.

Other's were in that same room with similar opinions as yours. There's
didn't matter either.


Even though there was a 2012 version of Windows Essentials releases (the
feature set in WLM was common to 2011). The primary reason for 2012 RTM
Windows Essentials and subsequent QFE's was to release PhotoGallery and
Movie Maker without Live 'branding' as one single bundled product,
replace Live Mesh with SkyDrive, replace Messenger with Skype, and
increased integration across the entire suite of products and the web UI
Hotmail/Outlook.com services and in the case of PhotoGallery/Movie Maker
additional features for social media sharing.

I had to look up QFE, which one site called it Quick Fix Engineering
(sounds like a fancy phrase for a bandaid or patch to me LOL) and
attributes it to MS. Another definition of listed is Quest for
Excellence, which I've never attached to MS's work in general.

I am still baffled as to why doing something correctly interferes with
integration of products. In this case, the question is simply proper
formatting of a message, just as are periods, commas, etc. I see no way
it has anything to do with how well things can be made to work together
seamlessly.

When a prior objective or feature no longer meets the business plan
(Html, Hotmail, synchronization with cloud services) the priority works
it way to circular file. Hotmail users were overwhelmingly html users
and a good share of those Hotmail users were prior MSN account holders
and users of MSN software - all using Html. WLM was never about
replacing Outlook Express or Vista's Windows Mail - too many folks think
it was (or should have been) - it wasn't. Hotmail users and those
willing to use a Windows Live ID were the target audience - all else no
longer important.

Bottom line - plain text quoting in WLM was a dead end never to be
considered or restored. With the advent of 8.0/8.1 included mail client
and all resources assigned to that product for the future (including
Win10) Windows Essentials is legacy ware with the only possibility of
any activity release or QFE patches centered upon continued integration
with the web UI...which coincidentally has been the design intent (as
noted in my earlier post) since the release of the 2011 version
(Fyi..2012 Windows Essentials has had 4 QFE's and all centered on that
same objective).

Does any of this prevent MSFT from implementing proper quoting ?
- Without any resources assigned to WLM then implementing proper
quoting at this stage wouldn't even be a distant pipe dream

Then my next question is, does the current MS product quote properly,
assuming it has text only capability?


The current MS products are Outlook 2013 and Windows 8x's Windows Mail.

- Outlook provides both html and plain text quoting


- Windows 8 mail client is strictly html. No need for a plain text
specifier since plain text is not an option.

As noted before..the primary intent like WLM continues...integration and
similarity to the web UI (Outlook.com). It supports Exchange Active
Sync and IMAP, no POP3. It is a mail client, not a news client.

The UI does provide grouping messages by conversation (just like WLM
and Outlook.com) in the respective folder (Inbox or other folder) and
also when opening a message in a conversation can be configured to show
each message in the sequence, including sent items/replies..sequence is
in chronological order...newest on top.

Unlike WLM which provides top or bottom posting, Win8x is top only.

Compared to Win8x client, you'd like WLM (it has many more features)!!!

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On 1/30/15 1:24 AM, . . .winston wrote:
Plain text quoting would never provide that telemetric info. The
feature was no longer of value.

Or more accurately, no longer of value to Microsoft. Seemingly, what's
of value to users is less important. I run into this type of outlook
(no pun intended LOL) or perspective from many open source projects.
I've never understood that perspective from the open source camp. They
seem to want people to use their free software, but often don't want to
provide the features users want. :-(

Another way of looking at it is, MS is providing poor customer service.
Good customer service seems to be disappearing from our society. :-(

--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 33.1
Thunderbird 31.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Ken Springer wrote:
On 1/30/15 1:24 AM, . . .winston wrote:
Plain text quoting would never provide that telemetric info. The
feature was no longer of value.

Or more accurately, no longer of value to Microsoft. Seemingly, what's
of value to users is less important. I run into this type of outlook
(no pun intended LOL) or perspective from many open source projects.
I've never understood that perspective from the open source camp. They
seem to want people to use their free software, but often don't want to
provide the features users want. :-(

Another way of looking at it is, MS is providing poor customer service.
Good customer service seems to be disappearing from our society. :-(


Quite a few applications from all software manufacturers have gone down
the deprecation route (planned or forced).

MSFT's a business - by using WLM and Win8's mail client Hotmail and now
Outlook.com accounts, the latter now capable of being just about any
MSFT or 3rd party email address, for cloud data integration in the
client and the o/s they also obtain the ability to monetize the
product..afiacs that's the trend and path that all business need to
operate in this constantly changing ecosystem. I've said this before,
it's no longer about current users it's all about the future disposable
income of the younger and future generations and the tools they get
weaned on...plain text quoting, Usenet, etc while serving a purpose are
not even bottom-feeder priorities.



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

"JiiPee" wrote in message
...
On 25/01/2015 22:29, ps56k wrote:
OK - yup... still running XP and Outlook Express.
SO - getting forced to migrate to Win7,
and will probably go with WLM for email,
but what is suggested for reading Newsgroups - like this one ???


Why not thunderbird? I use it and like it. It has a good newsgroup access
as well.

I installed Thunderbird today and found it useless. I can get mail from
Gmail but get errors when trying to send mail. And it wont let me add all 3
email accounts.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On 22 Feb 2015, "R.H. Breener" wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

I installed Thunderbird today and found it useless. I can get mail
from Gmail but get errors when trying to send mail. And it wont
let me add all 3 email accounts.

Then you're doing something wrong. I can verify that Thunderbird works
with Gmail. I've had as many as 6 mail accounts set up.

Nil wrote on 2/22/2015 3:12 AM:
On 22 Feb 2015, "R.H. Breener" wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

I installed Thunderbird today and found it useless. I can get mail
from Gmail but get errors when trying to send mail. And it wont
let me add all 3 email accounts.

Then you're doing something wrong. I can verify that Thunderbird works
with Gmail. I've had as many as 6 mail accounts set up.

And I've been able to setup
Yahoo
Gmail
Hotmail
Verizon
all working fine. Along with 3 news servers and 10-12 newsgroups. Thunderbird would not be one of the better news
clients if it were as bad as you say it is (OP that is).

On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 02:42:44 -0500, R.H. Breener wrote:

I installed Thunderbird today and found it useless. I can get mail from
Gmail but get errors when trying to send mail. And it wont let me add all 3
email accounts.

You're doing it wrong...

--
s|b