What can you do on Windows 10 that you can't do on Windows XP or Windows 7?

"mechanic" wrote

| Steve Jobs on user input on design questions:
|
| ´Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's
| not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want
| before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked
| customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster
| horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them.
| That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read
| things that are not yet on the page.¡
|
| also:
|
| ´Itÿs not the customerÿs job to know what they want¡

Steve Jobs also told the architect of his space donut
office building that the windows shouldn't open:
If you let people open things it only allows them to
screw things up.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all


Which is why we're here talking about Windows
preferences and not talking about how to switch to
an overpriced, glue-encased, kiddie-UI, spyware,
restricted Apple product.

The man was a salesman who dreamed of being
a Zen master, which is very different from being
an insightful designer. By many accounts he was a
psychopath -- a person with no empathy for others
and with no shame. Psychopaths often seem
charming and clever because of that lack of shame.
Which says something about the average person:
When we meet someone who's not embarassed
about themselves we assume they must be a
highly evolved "winner". Jobs managed to convince
a lot of intelligent people that to do as he says is
to be an independent, creative thinker. (Interestingly,
it seems to more often be the intelligent, sophisticated
people who are suckered by Jobs. Less sophisticated
people are not so impressed by zennie UIs with
jelly buttons that look "just so".

It's true that people often don't really know what
they want, or can't put words to it, but a good designer
empathizes and uplifts, without exploiting. Design
should be art, not marketing. There's a difference
between cooking someone's favorite foods well,
vs offering a giant, delicious cheesecake to a grossly
obese person. Jobs's designs were never edifying or
empathizing. They were candy for fat people.
Entertainment options for spoiled consumers. Which
is why the company is so ridiculously successful.

I'm not sure all of that applies here, though. While
people often don't know what they want, this group
is comprised mostly of techie people who think about
these things, do work on computers, and know the
details of the system. I think it's a very useful question
to ask people what they want and what they don't want
to give up. But I guess sometimes it does have to be
interpreted. If someone says they want a faster
computer that may mean their computer is too slow.
Or it might just mean that they've been reading too many
ads for new computers and *assume* that newer is
faster, and that their computer must be slow. Or it might
mean they use a program that they find confusing and
mistakenly think that a newer version will someone
function more efficiently.

I once had a friend who asked if I could fix her slow
computer. I did what I could, cleaned up, got rid of a sleazy
music player.... But in general the system was in good
shape. I told her that. "Oh!", the woman said, "the
music player was the part we were having trouble with!
We love that music player. It just seemed like it had
become slow." So a "slow computer" problem was
probably actually a bad Internet connection problem and I
made the mistake of assuming she knew the difference.
I had deleted the only program they used!

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

Steve Jobs also told the architect of his space donut
office building that the windows shouldn't open:

commercial office buildings normally have windows that do *not* open.

this is particularly true when they're floor to ceiling windows.

the rest of your grossly ignorant rambling snipped.

nospam wrote:
In article , Mayayana
wrote:

Steve Jobs also told the architect of his space donut
office building that the windows shouldn't open:

commercial office buildings normally have windows that do *not* open.

At the Foxconn plant, it was to keep staff from jumping out.

It was so bad there, they added nets outside the building.

https://gizmodo.com/5574993/foxconn-...s-on-buildings

(Foxconn now owns Belkin and Linksys.)

By keeping the windows closed, Jobs saved on netting. Clever :-)

Paul

On Wed, 2 May 2018 08:21:20 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

While people often don't know what they want, this group is
comprised mostly of techie people who think about these things,
do work on computers, and know the details of the system.

On that point, I think this group is mainly comprised of people from
an older generation, who are retired with too much time on their
hands, and are afraid of the future. Thus they hark back to an
earlier time when they understood the technology. Unfortunately
since Win98 there have been ten Moore periods so things are a
thousand times smaller, quicker and more powerful than those days,
and the software struggles to keep up.

mechanic wrote:

I think this group is mainly comprised of people from
an older generation, who are retired with too much time on their
hands, and are afraid of the future. Thus they hark back to an
earlier time when they understood the technology. Unfortunately
since Win98 there have been ten Moore periods so things are a
thousand times smaller, quicker and more powerful than those days,
and the software struggles to keep up.

ITYM despite the hardware being thousands of times smaller/quicker/more
powerful, they sob to think that software has managed to **** away all
those advantages, to leave a system that's basically no faster at doing
tasks than before ...

In message , mechanic
writes
On Wed, 2 May 2018 08:21:20 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

While people often don't know what they want, this group is
comprised mostly of techie people who think about these things,
do work on computers, and know the details of the system.

On that point, I think this group is mainly comprised of people from
an older generation, who are retired with too much time on their
hands, and are afraid of the future.

"Too much time on their hands"? Are you joking? Most retired people will
tell you that they simply don't know how they ever used to find enough
time to go to work!



--
Ian

On Wed, 2 May 2018 08:21:20 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"mechanic" wrote

| Steve Jobs on user input on design questions:
|
| ´Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's
| not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want
| before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked
| customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster
| horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them.
| That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read
| things that are not yet on the page.¡
|
| also:
|
| ´Itÿs not the customerÿs job to know what they want¡

Steve Jobs also told the architect of his space donut
office building that the windows shouldn't open:
If you let people open things it only allows them to
screw things up.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

He sounds like a horrible individual; I feel honoured to share his
birthday.


Which is why we're here talking about Windows
preferences and not talking about how to switch to
an overpriced, glue-encased, kiddie-UI, spyware,
restricted Apple product.

The man was a salesman who dreamed of being
a Zen master, which is very different from being
an insightful designer. By many accounts he was a
psychopath -- a person with no empathy for others
and with no shame. Psychopaths often seem
charming and clever because of that lack of shame.
Which says something about the average person:
When we meet someone who's not embarassed
about themselves we assume they must be a
highly evolved "winner". Jobs managed to convince
a lot of intelligent people that to do as he says is
to be an independent, creative thinker. (Interestingly,
it seems to more often be the intelligent, sophisticated
people who are suckered by Jobs. Less sophisticated
people are not so impressed by zennie UIs with
jelly buttons that look "just so".

In the end, Steve Wozniak was the real brain behind the operation. The
problem is that like most Poles, he didn't want the spotlight and
wouldn't know what to do with it if he had it. Jobs, therefore, ran
with it by default.

It's true that people often don't really know what
they want, or can't put words to it, but a good designer
empathizes and uplifts, without exploiting. Design
should be art, not marketing. There's a difference
between cooking someone's favorite foods well,
vs offering a giant, delicious cheesecake to a grossly
obese person. Jobs's designs were never edifying or
empathizing. They were candy for fat people.
Entertainment options for spoiled consumers. Which
is why the company is so ridiculously successful.

Apple had the benefit of always producing the best _looking_ product.
Once you had it in your hands though, you started to see how it wasn't
in any way better than the competition. Mac OS 8-9 was a poor OS next
to Windows 9x, the iMac while pretty gave you limited upgradeability
compared to a regular desktop PC. People who didn't want to be
bothered loved them both, but would start to hate them if ever proper
multitasking and stability (OS 8-9) and expansion (iMac) became a
necessity.

I'm not sure all of that applies here, though. While
people often don't know what they want, this group
is comprised mostly of techie people who think about
these things, do work on computers, and know the
details of the system. I think it's a very useful question
to ask people what they want and what they don't want
to give up. But I guess sometimes it does have to be
interpreted. If someone says they want a faster
computer that may mean their computer is too slow.
Or it might just mean that they've been reading too many
ads for new computers and *assume* that newer is
faster, and that their computer must be slow. Or it might
mean they use a program that they find confusing and
mistakenly think that a newer version will someone
function more efficiently.

I once had a friend who asked if I could fix her slow
computer. I did what I could, cleaned up, got rid of a sleazy
music player.... But in general the system was in good
shape. I told her that. "Oh!", the woman said, "the
music player was the part we were having trouble with!
We love that music player. It just seemed like it had
become slow." So a "slow computer" problem was
probably actually a bad Internet connection problem and I
made the mistake of assuming she knew the difference.
I had deleted the only program they used!

What's fun about today's computers is that unlike what was sold in the
90s which truly became obsolete within eighteen months, you can hold
onto your machine for half a decade or more as long as you maintain
it. The slowness issue is no longer remedied with an upgrade; it can
be fixed with a software clean-up of some sort.

In article , Doomsdrzej
wrote:


the iMac while pretty gave you limited upgradeability
compared to a regular desktop PC.

so what? most people don't upgrade, but for those who do, apple had
*other* models, which were not only upgradable, but could be opened
without tools and some could even be used while open, which made
designing custom hardware very convenient.

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/6j1Fmc6PY2u6c6GG.large

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/LG2YPVaHQQ1nWjIE.large

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.ne...2CGNDjhq.large
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/BPGoOxpVpqOqwmjl.large

On Wed, 02 May 2018 11:48:41 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Doomsdrzej
wrote:


the iMac while pretty gave you limited upgradeability
compared to a regular desktop PC.

so what? most people don't upgrade, but for those who do, apple had
*other* models, which were not only upgradable, but could be opened
without tools and some could even be used while open, which made
designing custom hardware very convenient.

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/6j1Fmc6PY2u6c6GG.large

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/LG2YPVaHQQ1nWjIE.large

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.ne...2CGNDjhq.large
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/BPGoOxpVpqOqwmjl.large

We all know the benefits of a G5 Mac like the one you showed. However,
that machine, while making upgrades easy, was also grossly overpriced,
consumed an inordinate amount of electricity in comparison to the
power it provided and was noisier than the PC competition. I mentioned
the iMac specifically because it was a high seller unlike your
machine.

In article , Doomsdrzej
wrote:

We all know the benefits of a G5 Mac like the one you showed.

you clearly do not, and the same design was used for the mac pro.

However,
that machine, while making upgrades easy, was also grossly overpriced,
consumed an inordinate amount of electricity in comparison to the
power it provided and was noisier than the PC competition.

wrong on all counts.

I mentioned
the iMac specifically because it was a high seller unlike your
machine.

again, most people aren't interested in upgrading. if they were, they'd
have bought something other than an all-in-one, including from dell:

http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/...e-pcs/sf/inspi
ron-desktops

plus, imacs weren't as difficult to upgrade as you claim either:
https://support.apple.com/library/co...are/images/en_
US/imac/late09_replace_access_door.png

In , Ian Jackson
wrote:

Should the question not be "What do you feel you really NEED to do on
Windows 10 that you miss not being able to do on Windows XP or Windows

That is the same question, when it's asked of the thousands of people in
these three groups, where any one person will have a "need" that only
Windows 10 provides.

It's still shockingly disappointing that the only things we can come up
with that Windows 10 "has" that Win7 & WinXP don't, are these.

1. Windows Store apps
2. Cortana searches
3. DirectX (for gaming)
4. Access 2TB of RAM (instead of 512GB, 192GB, & 128GB previously)
5. HiDPI scale text & GUI to 200% (not just 150% previously)
6. Full-screen console mode ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

In m, Brian Gregory
wrote:

Well yes, if you don't mind always using VLC to play H.265.

Add CCCP and Windows Media Player will be able to play H.265.

It's a valid question but for the purpose of answering what someone can co
with Win10 that they can't do with Win7 or WinXP, it seems that simply
adding a "patch" to Windows, that is, by adding VLC or MPC/Llite codecs,
one can "play" the same stuff on Win7 as WinXP.

So that won't go on the list.

What is on the list, so far, is this:
1. Windows Store apps
2. Cortana searches
3. DirectX (for gaming)
4. Access 2TB of RAM (instead of 512GB, 192GB, & 128GB previously)
5. HiDPI scale text & GUI to 200% (not just 150% previously)
6. Full-screen console mode ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

Although I'm pretty confused by that "console mode" suggestion.

In news wrote:

You both attacked and apologized on this one, but
I'm still trying to figure out what the heck you're
talking about with "cascading".

All I'm trying to find is what are the ten most important capabilities that
come with Windows 10, the OS, that you can't get with Win7 & XP.

As for the menus, they're *different* so it's hard to decide if the menus
on Windows 10 are lost functionality or just the same functionality or
different functionality.

I've only dabbled
with Win10 UI, but I don't remember anything
especially novel about it. Unless you count
the "anti-3D" design trend, which is as trivial as it
is tasteless.

I'm looking for usable functionality and not window dressing.

It doesn't seem like there is all that much functionality in Windows 10
that isn't already in Windows XP or Win 7 but I had thought there would
have been when I first asked.

You said you were trying to think through your
stategy in the face of customers who aren't
buying new software from you. I daresay that new,
incompatible software versions is a big reason for
updating the OS.

Like any learning endeavor, it helps to understand.
All I wanted to do with this question was understand.

The specific thing I wanted to undersatnd was what were the ten most
functional improvements in Windows 10 over either XP or Win7.

This seems to be, so far, the answer.
1. Windows Store apps
2. Cortana searches
3. DirectX (for gaming)
4. Access 2TB of RAM (instead of 512GB, 192GB, & 128GB previously)
5. HiDPI scale text & GUI to 200% (not just 150% previously)
6. Full-screen console mode ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

You didn't explain how that relates to your
product, but it sounded like you have a new version
that requires Win10 and it's not selling.

It's not that. Our software doesn't run on Windows.
It runs only on Linux.

The question was just related to trying to understand what is in Windows 10
that isn't in Window 7 or XP.

It doesn't seem like there is all that much if none of us can come up with
even 10 useful things that you can do with Win 10 that you can't do with
Win7 or WinXP.

In news wrote:

Why would that matter? It's an open format. VLC
supports it. Free tools are available to work with it.
Saying only Win10 supports FLAC is like saying Windows
supports ZIP, or that Windows added PNG support when
it was added to Paint.

I agree with mayayana that the question is just what you can do on Windows
10 that you can't do on Win7 or WinXP where it's natural to use something
like VLC or MPC with K-Lite codec packs to get all the support you need.

Technically that's true, up to a point, but ZIP programs
are freely available, as are image viewers.

I agree.

If the "flac support" is easily obtained by the WinXP & Win7 user then Flac
support is clearly not a functionality that is only in Windows 10.

I realize I said "in the OS" at some points, but if the software is easily
available then that's a "patch" to the OS that works just fine for the
purpose of figuring out what you can do in Win10 that you can't do on Win7
or WinXP.

DirectX versions matter because earlier Windows
versions can't get them.

This is on the list, so thank you for confirming that DirectX 12 is
probably one of the rare things that anyone can do on Win10 that they
couldn't do in WinXP or Win7.

File formats, on the other hand,
are not directly connected with Windows functionality.

Agree.

This is the sorry state of affairs at the moment.
1. Windows Store apps
2. Cortana searches
3. DirectX (for gaming)
4. Access 2TB of RAM (instead of 512GB, 192GB, & 128GB previously)
5. HiDPI scale text & GUI to 200% (not just 150% previously)
6. Full-screen console mode ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?
10. ?

In news wrote:

The parts of my music collection that I actually care about are all in
FLAC.

Does Win10 have Flac support that Win7 & WinXP don't have?

Yes. Windows Media Player even allows you rip to FLAC if you choose
to.

Ripping to any format is so easily done with so many programs that I don't
see how Windows 10 has any advantage over Win7 or WinXP in that
functionality, as long as the user can easily add that functionality via
software to Win7 or WinXP (which it seems that they can).

This is what we have so far come up with that a user can do on Win10 that
they can't do on Win7 or WinXP.

1. Windows Store apps
2. Cortana searches
3. DirectX (for gaming)
4. Access 2TB of RAM (instead of 512GB, 192GB, & 128GB previously)
5. HiDPI scale text & GUI to 200% (not just 150% previously)
6. Full-screen console mode ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?