Gaining control in w-7

R. H. Breener wrote:

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
R. H. Breener wrote:

"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:15:56 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:

I have no idea what a Linux Live CD is how to use it to replace a
.dll.
Before W7 it was no problem doing something like that in Windows.
Where can
I find out how that's done? Trying to follow the info on Sevenforums
doesn't work with the version of W7 I have. The choices are all
grayed out
so permissions can't be changed. The user no longer has that
choice. MS
took it away from us.

Not "us", just you.

Really? So the selections are grayed out because my name is Breener
and MS had something against those with my name? LOL!!!!! Now you
are a real comic.


Your theory has merit. ;-)

On the other hand, if you are using Home Premium or Starter editions,
many options which are only available in the more expensive editions
of Windows 7 are shown in the menus but are either greyed out or just
don't work.

Yes, I brought that point up I'm sure. That's why I mentioned I have
HomePremium. The others on this NG should be aware of that fact, but
don't seem to be.

File system encryption is one such. Home edition can *read*
encrypted NTFS file systems, but can't create them. The code is there
in your computer, but disabled by a policy enforced by your licence
key. Microsoft's general idea is to make you pay the extra to upgrade
your edition of Windows. If you do pay the extra, no new code is
downloaded, but your new licence key will enable the blocked
facilities. So, to get the control you used to have over your earlier
systems, pay M$ the fee for the Ultimate edition key, and you will be
able to play to your heart's content.

Never happen. This is the last computer I will ever buy with a MS OS
installed on it. I wont be held hostage by MS and use OSs I have so
little control over, even though I paid for the OS. Thank you for being
HONEST! There seems to be some MS apologists on this NG.


If you want *full* control over your computer, install one of the many
versions of Linux and be prepared to spend a long time learning how to
use it.

Yes, I agree. I read that. Linux is not easy to use for non computer
geek types (and I don't use the word geek in a derogatory way) as there
is a steeper learning curve that can cause some real difficulties for
those used to windows or new to computers.


If it's any consolation, I suspect that when Windows 8 finally
arrives, it will be even more "locked down" than Windows 7 is, and
will be approaching the Apple "walled garden" idea.

Ya know, they were talking about that very thing at work the other day.
Someone asked me if I ever got WM working on W7, bitched about the
general loss of control in W7 ....then went on to talk about Apple's
"walled garden" and back to how they have little faith in W8 being any
improvement on W7. Word sure gets around. I guess they know more about
computers than I thought.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.


Just for fun, I did an entire test run, to reproduce what you've been
trying to do. (I did this, because I wouldn't want to mess up
my laptop that has the "real" copy of Windows 7 SP1 on it. This
was intended to be a machine setup I could toss at the end of the
day. This is an old P4 that used to be my primary computer.)

I set up this test case, to help someone else with a driver issue,
but since the box was sitting there (driver actually worked),
I was able to reuse it to "enabled WinMail".

1) Installed Win7 RC1 from when Microsoft made it available for download.
Due to Activation and limits on how long it'll run, I can't use a
thing like that forever. So the setup was a little "creaky".
That doesn't affect the results though. I ended up with a user
account to use, with the word "Administrator" underneath. Nothing
special was done to get it that way. No hacking, no enabling the
hidden Administrator or anything.

Did the procedure put up dialog boxes ? Of course it did.
I'd click "continue" or "OK", whatever it wanted to make it
go away.

2) The "Merge" option was available in the right context menu.

3) The TakeOwn pair of registry files, the "Add" one worked fine,
and I ended up with a TakeOwnership entry in the context menu.

4) No problem copying in the Vista msoe.dll file, as a result of
having (3) to work with.

5) Eventually got a shortcut on my desktop, for WinMail.exe.
Clicking that, and the WinMail client started running.

I filmed the whole thing in CamStudio, but I don't think
there is any value in the pictures really.

If I had to guess, the machine you've got, doesn't have a
vanilla copy you installed yourself within the last day. It
might have been a machine in a business, in a domain, locked
down, and then you took it home. I don't see a way otherwise,
to explain how everything you do is busted. Especially
as you verified your account information and saw the
word "Administrator" underneath your account name.

Would you have been fooling around with a feature like
Parental Control or something ?

You can ask the computer "who you are" in a sense, but the odds
of this working, when nothing else works for you, are slim to none.
I've only ever used WMI once, so this is not something I have
experience with. I don't know if there is actually a utility,
that can summarize the "box" you've got yourself in.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/heyscript...r-account.aspx

Paul

On 23 Jun 2012, "R. H. Breener" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

I use gmail as Verizon doesn't, to my knowledge, supply an email
service.

Yes, it does.

WindowsMail if possible, but I will definately take OE if it'll
work on W7.

It will not.

On 23 Jun 2012, "R. H. Breener" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

FYI, I didn't have to go through all this Permissions bull****
with W98, W98SE, XP or even Vista, and never had a problem with
any of them.

Vista has the same security scheme that Windows 7 has.

On 23 Jun 2012, John Williamson
wrote in alt.windows7.general:

On the other hand, if you are using Home Premium or Starter
editions, many options which are only available in the more
expensive editions of Windows 7 are shown in the menus but are
either greyed out or just don't work. File system encryption is
one such. Home edition can *read* encrypted NTFS file systems, but
can't create them. The code is there in your computer, but
disabled by a policy enforced by your licence key. Microsoft's
general idea is to make you pay the extra to upgrade your edition
of Windows. If you do pay the extra, no new code is downloaded,
but your new licence key will enable the blocked facilities. So,
to get the control you used to have over your earlier systems, pay
M$ the fee for the Ultimate edition key, and you will be able to
play to your heart's content.

I am able to take ownership of files and folders and to change
permissions (if I am owner) in Windows 7 Starter, just as I can in
Windows 7 Pro.

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 02:48:56 -0700, R. H. Breener wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 00:36:28 -0700, RH Breener wrote:

"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:56:45 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:


"Bob Hatch" wrote in message
traweb.com...
On 6/20/2012 7:21 AM, RH Breener wrote:
In WindowsExplorer I can't find the Delete button or any way to get
it
to show.

It's in the same place on your keyboard it's always been.

In WindowsExplorer? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In fairness to Bob, you should have mentioned that you use a different
keyboard for each application.

Me, I just use one keyboard for everything. That way, my Delete key is
always right where it should be.

I have one KB also.

Did you happen to notice the little yellow LED, the sarcasm light, in
the lower right corner of Char's reply?

Yes, and took it to mean he had no idea there was ever a delete button, or
could be a delete button at the top of the WindowsExplorer page.

Or perhaps that he understood there was an alternative that was

a) easy, and

b) effective

No matter how much someone thinks or believes they know everything, they
*don't* know everything. And looking down on someone else, or mocking
someone else they see as inferior to themselves doesn't increase their own
knowledge. It's a mentality mode seen at the Hospital all the time. :^)

Coming from you, that's a bit ironic; but see the note below about
semantics :-)

Well, OK, it was sardonic, not sarcastic (oh, forget it - I can't keep
the differences between those words, or ironic, straight in my mind!).

Char Jackson


--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:28:23 -0400, Nil wrote:

On 23 Jun 2012, "R. H. Breener" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

FYI, I didn't have to go through all this Permissions bull****
with W98, W98SE, XP or even Vista, and never had a problem with
any of them.

Vista has the same security scheme that Windows 7 has.

But IMO it's a little less forgiving than W7.

Interesting...


--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 03:53:55 -0700, R. H. Breener wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 03:47:01 -0700, RH Breener wrote:

"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 22 Jun 2012, "RH Breener" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

Not in W7 HomePremium. Even logging in as The Administrator the
choices are grayed out and I can't gain the control needed to
remove, rename or delete a dll file. MS took that power away
also.

I'm quite sure that is NOT true, as I was able to do it in Windows 7
Starter Edition, with is the most basic version available.

I described the method to you already in detail, but chose to ignore
it.

What method? I created 'The Administrator' account but it has no more
privileges than the 'An Administrator' account. Why would I lie about
it?
That makes no sense and is offensive. How can I change anything when the
choices are grayed out in both accounts? Why not describe how to get
them
active instead of grayed out an unclickable?

Are we even talking about the same thing?

Not in the least.

You don't *create* an account called "The Administrator", you *enable*
the existing, but by default hidden, account called "Administrator" and
log in or switch user to it.

That's what I did by following the directions given me here. To me that was
"creating" an account. I'm not familiar with the tech terms as others here
seem to be.

The account was *ENABLED* using the directions one of your techie brothers
here already gave me. You don't remember? I did it using the Command
Prompt:

Net user administrator active:yes and
The command completed successfully.


Note that there is no definite article in the correct account name.

I would tell you how to do it, but the level of competence you display
makes me think that giving you that information would be an actionable
offense.

Is there some rule that people who come to this group have to have some
special level of competence with a brand new OS they just acquired? How
would they be competent when they barely set the computer up?

The ability to follow direction is necessary. You have not displayed
that ability to my satisfaction, nor to the satisfaction of numerous
others, who, by the way, have managed to help many naive users in the
past. Things that work for others of limited technical background have
failed for you.

Evidently, The fault, dear Brutus, is not in your advisors, But in
yourself.

A few minutes ago, in response to another post of yours, I actually
created a post with information on enabling that account, but then I
panicked and deleted it unsent. Honestly, I think I did you a favor by
cancelling it.

You did me a favor by not giving me help in plan English? By jumping to
conclusions? Then why are you here and not on a Forum for professional
software writers and Lic PC technicians? Why not have a test here to make
sure everyone who comes for help meets your high standards of competency?
The account was *ENABLED* using the directions one of your techie buddies
here already gave me. You don't remember? I did it using the Command
Prompt:

Net user administrator active:yes

Several people told you how to do it. In English. You were given a link
to a site with help.

You managed to get it wrong. You managed to be annoyed at the helpers
rather than grateful.

My standards, and those of others here, for the competency of naive
users are very relaxed. Yet you have defeated my attempts and those of
others to help you and you have annoyed me and others enough to cause
people to make a few comments.

You have even evoked the ghost of a famous troll in this newsgroup.

You have even gotten me to flame, something I usually avoid.

Other than the above negatives, you have little to be proud of in this
venture, and you have less to criticize.

Go ahead and rant at me now. I have said all to you that I care to and
will no longer reply to you.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 23 Jun 2012, "R. H. Breener" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

FYI, I didn't have to go through all this Permissions bull****
with W98, W98SE, XP or even Vista, and never had a problem with
any of them.

Vista has the same security scheme that Windows 7 has.

And yet I'm never asked permission to do anything on Vista. I never have
to take control of anything. How can that be?

"Paul" wrote in message
...
R. H. Breener wrote:

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
R. H. Breener wrote:

"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:15:56 -0700, "RH Breener"
wrote:

I have no idea what a Linux Live CD is how to use it to replace a
.dll.
Before W7 it was no problem doing something like that in Windows.
Where can
I find out how that's done? Trying to follow the info on Sevenforums
doesn't work with the version of W7 I have. The choices are all
grayed out
so permissions can't be changed. The user no longer has that choice.
MS
took it away from us.

Not "us", just you.

Really? So the selections are grayed out because my name is Breener
and MS had something against those with my name? LOL!!!!! Now you are
a real comic.


Your theory has merit. ;-)

On the other hand, if you are using Home Premium or Starter editions,
many options which are only available in the more expensive editions of
Windows 7 are shown in the menus but are either greyed out or just don't
work.

Yes, I brought that point up I'm sure. That's why I mentioned I have
HomePremium. The others on this NG should be aware of that fact, but
don't seem to be.

File system encryption is one such. Home edition can *read*
encrypted NTFS file systems, but can't create them. The code is there in
your computer, but disabled by a policy enforced by your licence key.
Microsoft's general idea is to make you pay the extra to upgrade your
edition of Windows. If you do pay the extra, no new code is downloaded,
but your new licence key will enable the blocked facilities. So, to get
the control you used to have over your earlier systems, pay M$ the fee
for the Ultimate edition key, and you will be able to play to your
heart's content.

Never happen. This is the last computer I will ever buy with a MS OS
installed on it. I wont be held hostage by MS and use OSs I have so
little control over, even though I paid for the OS. Thank you for being
HONEST! There seems to be some MS apologists on this NG.


If you want *full* control over your computer, install one of the many
versions of Linux and be prepared to spend a long time learning how to
use it.

Yes, I agree. I read that. Linux is not easy to use for non computer
geek types (and I don't use the word geek in a derogatory way) as there
is a steeper learning curve that can cause some real difficulties for
those used to windows or new to computers.


If it's any consolation, I suspect that when Windows 8 finally arrives,
it will be even more "locked down" than Windows 7 is, and will be
approaching the Apple "walled garden" idea.

Ya know, they were talking about that very thing at work the other day.
Someone asked me if I ever got WM working on W7, bitched about the
general loss of control in W7 ....then went on to talk about Apple's
"walled garden" and back to how they have little faith in W8 being any
improvement on W7. Word sure gets around. I guess they know more about
computers than I thought.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.



Just for fun, I did an entire test run, to reproduce what you've been
trying to do. (I did this, because I wouldn't want to mess up
my laptop that has the "real" copy of Windows 7 SP1 on it. This
was intended to be a machine setup I could toss at the end of the
day. This is an old P4 that used to be my primary computer.)

Mt PC isn't an old P4 whatever that so comparing them may not be valid.


I set up this test case, to help someone else with a driver issue,
but since the box was sitting there (driver actually worked),
I was able to reuse it to "enabled WinMail".

1) Installed Win7 RC1 from when Microsoft made it available for download.

Which I do not have. I have the copy of W7 installed by HP. RC1?

Due to Activation and limits on how long it'll run, I can't use a
thing like that forever. So the setup was a little "creaky".
That doesn't affect the results though. I ended up with a user
account to use, with the word "Administrator" underneath. Nothing
special was done to get it that way. No hacking, no enabling the
hidden Administrator or anything.

So it said *User* Administrator? I have no such account on my W7. I have
"Administrator Breener" and "Administrator Administrator." the AA account
was created at someone's suggestion but was no better than the other
account. Same constant Permission, Admin, TrustedInstaller crap. I may as
well remove it from the PC.

Did the procedure put up dialog boxes ? Of course it did.
I'd click "continue" or "OK", whatever it wanted to make it
go away.

What exactly were you doing when it tossed up that box?


2) The "Merge" option was available in the right context menu.

No merge was on the menu on my W7.


3) The TakeOwn pair of registry files, the "Add" one worked fine,
and I ended up with a TakeOwnership entry in the context menu.

I saw no such thing. You must have a different version of W7 or the USER
account allows that. I have no USER account.


4) No problem copying in the Vista msoe.dll file, as a result of
having (3) to work with.

5) Eventually got a shortcut on my desktop, for WinMail.exe.
Clicking that, and the WinMail client started running.

It worked for me also, but I never was able to do the MERGE. In fact I
don't know what I did exactly, but after a reboot, I clicked on the
WindowsMail.exe and it opened. And yes, it works. But it looks more
like the old OE, then the version on Vista - not that I care. If I had to
do a SystemRecovery on W7 I hope I can find the way to do it again.


I filmed the whole thing in CamStudio, but I don't think
there is any value in the pictures really.

If I had to guess, the machine you've got, doesn't have a
vanilla copy you installed yourself within the last day. It
might have been a machine in a business, in a domain, locked
down, and then you took it home. I don't see a way otherwise,
to explain how everything you do is busted. Especially
as you verified your account information and saw the
word "Administrator" underneath your account name.

W7 is a brand new HP PC I picked up at WalMart. It was cherry.


Would you have been fooling around with a feature like
Parental Control or something ?

Not a chance. No kids use this computer.


You can ask the computer "who you are" in a sense, but the odds
of this working, when nothing else works for you, are slim to none.
I've only ever used WMI once, so this is not something I have
experience with. I don't know if there is actually a utility,
that can summarize the "box" you've got yourself in.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/heyscript...r-account.aspx

Paul

I have no idea what that site is about or how it effects me or my W7 PC. I
did get Wl to work as stated above. Like I said. If I had to do it again, I
don't think I could. I tried so many things and read so many posts and
websites my mind is boggled with it.

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
R. H. Breener wrote:

I have no upgrade OS disks. They're all from HP when I bought new
computers. I have them for XP and Vista.

Another problem that I forgot to mention is that branded install discs
may be BIOS-locked to a particular vendor and even restricted to a
family of their models. That is, the installer will look in the
firmware signature of the BIOS to see that it is being ran on the
vendor's brand of computer and may require to be within a set of models
(family) of products from that vendor. If you don't have a non-branded
(generic) install disc for Windows XP, I wouldn't bother with installing
a VMM to see if the branded disc might work - unless you have the time
and obstinence to try.

Makes sense. I understand what you're saying. All the sets of disks I have
are from HP.

WM finally did work on W7 so tonight I'm a happy camper. But God help me if
I have to do a SystemRecovery as I fear I'll lose it and have to go through
this hell again to get it back. If I copy the WM folder to a flash drive,
would I be able to re-install it should that happen?

"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 23 Jun 2012, "R. H. Breener" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

I use gmail as Verizon doesn't, to my knowledge, supply an email
service.

Yes, it does.

I never bothered to get an account with them since I have several gmail
accounts.


WindowsMail if possible, but I will definately take OE if it'll
work on W7.

It will not.

That's OK, WM finally worked on W7 and I wish I knew what I did to
accomplish that. Some of the things you folks recommended were doable and
some weren't but in the end, it did work. I never did get those registry
keys to merge. I'm going to copy the WM folder to a flash drive to save. I
hope it works if I every have to reinstall it after a SytemRecovery. :^\

I want to thank you all, especially those with patience because I would
never have accomplished it other wise.

Saved on a flash drive (the folder with WM now working on W7) would I be
able to reinstall it should W7 crash or need to have a SytemRecovery done?

"Dave "Crash" Dummy" wrote in message
...
R. H. Breener wrote:

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...

You said that you wanted Outlook Express. The last version of Outlook
Express is version 6. OE always comes bundled with IE. To
get OE6 means you have to get IE6. Windows XP comes with IE6 so you
get the OE6 that is bundled with it. Windows Vista comes with
IE7 as its base version so you also don't have OE under Windows Vista.

IE6 wont download from any site I found online, to the W7 PC. I get
the "IE6 Will Not Run on 64 Bit" error. And on Vista, it wont download
because it says I have a newer version of IE. Now the problem is IE9
doesn't show up in Programs and Features to uninstall
it, and it has no uninstall files. If I delete it (all the files) from
WindowsExplorer, what about the keys? Do I have to go to regedit
and remove any keys associated with it?

IE 9 is treated as a Windows Update and can be uninstalled by using the
uninstall option on the list of updates. No version earlier than IE 8
will run in Windows 7.

I did download it and saved it, but have no intention of installing it.
BTW, when WM on W7 finally worked, it looks like the old OE, not the newer
version on Vista. What a surprise that was.... not that I care. :^)

--
Crash

One man's weed is another man's wildflower.

"Asger Joergensen" wrote in message
...
Hi R

R. H. Breener wrote:


"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...

And what is that? It didn't look in your other thread like you got
Windows Mail working under Windows 7. You asked on how to get OE to
work on Windows 7 which I addressed there and here. So what did you
decide to use that "works for you"?

WindowsMail opened in W-7. :-))))) Now I can only hope it keeps
working.

I did find a place to download (and save) IE6 to Vista without having to
unstall IE9.
And if necessary, will move it to W-7 on my flash drive.

I would NOT!! try to install IE6 on a W7 machine, You can not be sure that
W7 will work properly after such a stunt, in earlier versions of windows
IE was an integrated part of the system explorer, I'm not sure when they
got separated so much you could have a system without an IE.

Oh man, that makes sense. I'll go ahead and delete it from my Seagate then.
I don't need computer problems with the new machine.


Why not go for a alternate mail and news client instead, there are several
free one one the market.
I use Opera, but I've seen others mention Thunderbird.
Opera have a USB version he
http://www.opera-usb.com/

As long as WM is working on W7, that's all I need. And it's working good
so far.


Best regards
Asger-P
http://Asger-P.dk/software
QLaunch, INI-Edit and Color Pick Pro.

R. H. Breener wrote:

"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 23 Jun 2012, "R. H. Breener" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

FYI, I didn't have to go through all this Permissions bull****
with W98, W98SE, XP or even Vista, and never had a problem with
any of them.

Vista has the same security scheme that Windows 7 has.

And yet I'm never asked permission to do anything on Vista. I never
have to take control of anything. How can that be?

SighThe default settings are different.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

R. H. Breener wrote:

WM finally did work on W7 so tonight I'm a happy camper. But God help me if
I have to do a SystemRecovery as I fear I'll lose it and have to go through
this hell again to get it back. If I copy the WM folder to a flash drive,
would I be able to re-install it should that happen?

Keep notes (on paper, not in a file).