Win10 update changed BIOS settings

My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

I've come to believe that with UEFI, anything is possible.

There has already been one case, where an application on the
Windows side, flipped something in the UEFI BIOS, and the BIOS
*did not* have a setting to flip it back. This is why, before
using a capability from the OS side, it's a good idea to check
in the BIOS setup screen, to see what level of support is present
there.

In laptops, it's pretty simple. Some laptops have almost no settings
at all (maybe one setup page and that's it). In those cases, you can
be pretty well assured that anything that happens on the OS side,
will be a disaster on the BIOS side. (My laptop Insyde BIOS is
pretty weak on settings. Maybe it had SATA as Compatible or AHCI,
and that was it.)

You could mess with conventional BIOS too, but the tools
seemed to be obscure enough, there wasn't a lot of experience
with it. There was at least one utility for making a backup
copy of the CMOS. If you flashed a BIOS, the "layout" of the
CMOS could change from one release to another, which is
why people were doing "Clear CMOS" to make sure everything
ended up (eventually) properly aligned. Backing up a CMOS in
such cases, would be useless. (Just as "saving Profiles"
in the BIOS, was a waste of time if you then did a Flash update
of the BIOS.)

The UEFI BIOS on the other hand, stores settings in "NVRAM"
(which is presumably part of the BIOS flash chip). It's supposed
to contain "path strings" of some sort. Whether it stores
anything else, I haven't seen an article describing the
contents. While I see well-meaning suggestions to "re-flash
the UEFI BIOS if the machine bricks", again, I haven't
read of a case where someone reported the results of
such situations. And whether they got out alive or not.
There's no particular reason for erasing the NVRAM half
of the UEFI BIOS chip, while it is getting flashed up.
Unless the Flasher program has an option to reset the
NVRAM, maybe it stays in whatever state it started in.

The NVRAM is supposed to have "garbage collection", which
prevents it from becoming too full. As you remove setups
or install new OSes, the oldest cruft in the NVRAM is
supposed to get removed. But again, I don't know what
mechanism controls that.

It was some early EFI BIOS, where the NVRAM filled to the
top and the machine bricked. And that's what resulted in
some learning in the user community, about what was
supposed to happen there. But didn't happen.

The whole UEFI thing just boggles the mind.
As in "what were they thinking". It's not clear
what they were thinking. And Intel is hell bent on
making UEFI the only option, real soon now (no more
CSM module). We will be awash in unhappy victims
when that plan is executed.

Paul

On 1/17/20 11:04 AM, Paul wrote:
philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

I've come to believe that with UEFI, anything is possible.

There has already been one case, where an application on the
Windows side, flipped something in the UEFI BIOS, and the BIOS
*did not* have a setting to flip it back. This is why, before
using a capability from the OS side, it's a good idea to check
in the BIOS setup screen, to see what level of support is present
there.

In laptops, it's pretty simple. Some laptops have almost no settings
at all (maybe one setup page and that's it). In those cases, you can
be pretty well assured that anything that happens on the OS side,
will be a disaster on the BIOS side. (My laptop Insyde BIOS is
pretty weak on settings. Maybe it had SATA as Compatible or AHCI,
and that was it.)

You could mess with conventional BIOS too, but the tools
seemed to be obscure enough, there wasn't a lot of experience
with it. There was at least one utility for making a backup
copy of the CMOS. If you flashed a BIOS, the "layout" of the
CMOS could change from one release to another, which is
why people were doing "Clear CMOS" to make sure everything
ended up (eventually) properly aligned. Backing up a CMOS in
such cases, would be useless. (Just as "saving Profiles"
in the BIOS, was a waste of time if you then did a Flash update
of the BIOS.)

The UEFI BIOS on the other hand, stores settings in "NVRAM"
(which is presumably part of the BIOS flash chip). It's supposed
to contain "path strings" of some sort. Whether it stores
anything else, I haven't seen an article describing the
contents. While I see well-meaning suggestions to "re-flash
the UEFI BIOS if the machine bricks", again, I haven't
read of a case where someone reported the results of
such situations. And whether they got out alive or not.
There's no particular reason for erasing the NVRAM half
of the UEFI BIOS chip, while it is getting flashed up.
Unless the Flasher program has an option to reset the
NVRAM, maybe it stays in whatever state it started in.

The NVRAM is supposed to have "garbage collection", which
prevents it from becoming too full. As you remove setups
or install new OSes, the oldest cruft in the NVRAM is
supposed to get removed. But again, I don't know what
mechanism controls that.

It was some early EFI BIOS, where the NVRAM filled to the
top and the machine bricked. And that's what resulted in
some learning in the user community, about what was
supposed to happen there. But didn't happen.

The whole UEFI thing just boggles the mind.
As in "what were they thinking". It's not clear
what they were thinking. And Intel is hell bent on
making UEFI the only option, real soon now (no more
CSM module). We will be awash in unhappy victims
when that plan is executed.

** Paul


Thanks for the reply.

I have been avoiding UEFI as much as possible but looks like there will
never be an end to learning new things.

I am just lucky it was something very minor.

In article , philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

Just out of curiosity, when you say "the function keys no longer
responded", do you mean that they now do the right thing or the wrong
thing?

Clarification: Modern laptops have function keys that can operate in one
of two modes:
1) Normal mode, where pressing, say, F1, generates, surprise, surprise, F1.
2) Whacky mode, where pressing a function key might do any of: blanking
the screen, muting the audio volume, turning off the WiFi, or
starting World War III.

And, generally, whichever mode it is in, pressing the "Fn" key along with
the function key will do the other mode.

--
The motto of the GOP "base": You can't *be* a billionaire, but at least you
can vote like one.

On 17/01/2020 16:35, philo wrote:



I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

Don't be puzzled. In all computers, users can lock the bios by password
protecting it so nobody can change anything in it; Not even Microsoft
or Google can change it. Why don't you try it. I suspect this must be
too much work for you just like locking the front door of your house is
too much work. Your arguments have always been thieves should not steal
from people's houses and flats.

Intel needs to update the Micro-code so they need to update it. Also
flashing the bios can also reset the settings. people normaly update
the bios when they perform clean install of the operating system. I do
this once every 12 to 18 months including cleaning the machine from
inside the box using a powerful blower. This is a must these days
because the machines are getting hooter and hotter and dust can
suffocate the machine.



--
With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

On 1/18/20 5:22 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
In article , philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

Just out of curiosity, when you say "the function keys no longer
responded", do you mean that they now do the right thing or the wrong
thing?

Clarification: Modern laptops have function keys that can operate in one
of two modes:
1) Normal mode, where pressing, say, F1, generates, surprise, surprise, F1.
2) Whacky mode, where pressing a function key might do any of: blanking
the screen, muting the audio volume, turning off the WiFi, or
starting World War III.

And, generally, whichever mode it is in, pressing the "Fn" key along with
the function key will do the other mode.




Unless the "fn" key was pressed , the function keys did noting at
all...except I think the F5 , refresh key did work


Fortunately it was just a minor problem

In article , philo wrote:
On 1/18/20 5:22 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
In article , philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

Just out of curiosity, when you say "the function keys no longer
responded", do you mean that they now do the right thing or the wrong
thing?

Clarification: Modern laptops have function keys that can operate in one
of two modes:
1) Normal mode, where pressing, say, F1, generates, surprise, surprise, F1.
2) Whacky mode, where pressing a function key might do any of: blanking
the screen, muting the audio volume, turning off the WiFi, or
starting World War III.

And, generally, whichever mode it is in, pressing the "Fn" key along with
the function key will do the other mode.




Unless the "fn" key was pressed , the function keys did noting at
all...except I think the F5 , refresh key did work

I doubt that. I seriously doubt that they had been turned into dead keys.

What program or application were you using to test?

Hint: Unless you open up a Command Prompt and test there, the results may
not mean anything.

--
"I have a simple philosophy. Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. And
scratch where it itches."

Alice Roosevelt Longworth

On 17/01/2020 17.35, philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

Because your laptop being "fairly new", you don't don't have BIOS. You
have UEFI. Even if you activated "legacy support" etc, it is still UEFI.

You should forget the word "BIOS".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. posted this
via :

On 17/01/2020 17.35, philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

Because your laptop being "fairly new", you don't don't have BIOS. You
have UEFI. Even if you activated "legacy support" etc, it is still UEFI.

You should forget the word "BIOS".

His wife probably blamed her pregnancies on "Windows updates must have
changed the BIOS"... BWHAAAA... Someone probably just inadvertantly bumped
the key. It doesn't give you any confirmation when you click it.

FTR: On ALL laptops the 'Fn' key (function key) works like a shift key so
the 'F' keys can also control hardware settings... like screen brightness;
internal speaker volume and mute; keyboard illumination; wifi settings;
etc. Depends on the manufacturer and model.

I have a newish Dell laptop and even their tech support could not figure
out why my F5 key would not insert the date and time on Notepad entries...
So they remotely rebooted then reinstalled my Win 10 Home OS... and it
still didn't fix it... ('Dell Techical Support' is a complex 'oxymoron')

It was the Fn key all along.

HINT: Just Fn around will mess-up your lady's laptop!

Hope this helps.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^;

Resolve conflicts the truely American way :

Rock - Paper - Scissors - Twitter Storm - Predator Missile Attack

.... and I approve this message!

On 1/18/20 9:37 PM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
In article , philo wrote:
On 1/18/20 5:22 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
In article , philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

Just out of curiosity, when you say "the function keys no longer
responded", do you mean that they now do the right thing or the wrong
thing?

Clarification: Modern laptops have function keys that can operate in one
of two modes:
1) Normal mode, where pressing, say, F1, generates, surprise, surprise, F1.
2) Whacky mode, where pressing a function key might do any of: blanking
the screen, muting the audio volume, turning off the WiFi, or
starting World War III.

And, generally, whichever mode it is in, pressing the "Fn" key along with
the function key will do the other mode.




Unless the "fn" key was pressed , the function keys did noting at
all...except I think the F5 , refresh key did work

I doubt that. I seriously doubt that they had been turned into dead keys.

What program or application were you using to test?

Hint: Unless you open up a Command Prompt and test there, the results may
not mean anything.




/plonk

On 1/19/20 4:52 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 17/01/2020 17.35, philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

Because your laptop being "fairly new", you don't don't have BIOS. You
have UEFI. Even if you activated "legacy support" etc, it is still UEFI.

You should forget the word "BIOS".




The correct term is UEFI BIOS but I think most here understood what I meant

On 1/19/2020 9:38 AM, philo wrote:
On 1/19/20 4:52 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 17/01/2020 17.35, philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

Because your laptop being "fairly new", you don't don't have BIOS. You
have UEFI. Even if you activated "legacy support" etc, it is still UEFI.

You should forget the word "BIOS".




The correct term is UEFI BIOS but I think most here understood what I meant


Sorry, that is *not* the correct term (although many people say it).
Although they do similar things, UEFI and BIOS are two different things.
Saying "UEFI BIOS" is like saying "zebra horse."

If you don't believe me, do a google search on "uefi."



--
Ken

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:06:34 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On 1/19/2020 9:38 AM, philo wrote:
On 1/19/20 4:52 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 17/01/2020 17.35, philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

Because your laptop being "fairly new", you don't don't have BIOS. You
have UEFI. Even if you activated "legacy support" etc, it is still UEFI.

You should forget the word "BIOS".




The correct term is UEFI BIOS but I think most here understood what I meant


Sorry, that is *not* the correct term (although many people say it).
Although they do similar things, UEFI and BIOS are two different things.
Saying "UEFI BIOS" is like saying "zebra horse."

A 'zebra horse' is apparently more correctly referred to as a zorse. This
is something that I didn't know, so thank you for the heads up.

https://mymodernmet.com/zorse-animal-hybrid/
Striking Photos of Zorses Capture the Very Real Yet Rare Hybrid of a Zebra
and Horse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGtwI84KtnY
The Zebra Horse (0:48)

If you don't believe me, do a google search on "uefi."

I believe you.

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 10:38:29 -0600, philo wrote:

On 1/19/20 4:52 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 17/01/2020 17.35, philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

Because your laptop being "fairly new", you don't don't have BIOS. You
have UEFI. Even if you activated "legacy support" etc, it is still UEFI.

You should forget the word "BIOS".




The correct term is UEFI BIOS but I think most here understood what I meant

BIOS stands for Basic Input Output System so that extent UEFI is still
a form of BIOS. Except that it ain't quite so basic.

--


Eric Stevens

There are two classes of people. Those who divide people into
two classes and those who don't. I belong to the second class.

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:06:34 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 1/19/2020 9:38 AM, philo wrote:
On 1/19/20 4:52 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 17/01/2020 17.35, philo wrote:
My wife has a fairly new Lenovo laptop with Win10,

She had me check it last night because the function keys no longer
responded unless she presses the "Fn" key first.

She told me it happened immediately after the last update.


After seeing no tweak for that in the OS, I saw one bios setting had
changed and I reset it.
All working fine now.

There is zero chance my wife would have been fooling around in the BIOS.


I am puzzled how and update could change a BIOS setting though.

Because your laptop being "fairly new", you don't don't have BIOS. You
have UEFI. Even if you activated "legacy support" etc, it is still UEFI.

You should forget the word "BIOS".




The correct term is UEFI BIOS but I think most here understood what I meant


Sorry, that is *not* the correct term (although many people say it).
Although they do similar things, UEFI and BIOS are two different things.
Saying "UEFI BIOS" is like saying "zebra horse."

If you don't believe me, do a google search on "uefi."

And you will find it full of references to "UEFI BIOS". See
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...e-e078930b8c6e

UEFI is just a type of BIOS.

--


Eric Stevens

There are two classes of people. Those who divide people into
two classes and those who don't. I belong to the second class.