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Buying Windows 7



 
 
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  #31  
Old July 9th 18, 05:37 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,569
Default Buying Windows 7 - related question

KenW wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 20:04:41 -0700, mike wrote:

On 7/8/2018 7:29 PM, KenW wrote:
If Dell does not have Windows 7 drivers for your hardware, you are
stuck.


KenW

That's pessimistic.
Hardware vendor drivers sometimes exist.


Believe what you wish. Dell does their own thing with drivers
(modifications) and many drivers from hardware manufactures will not
work on Dell computers. Just went through that on my Dell.


KenW


The register level specification is only available to the
hardware manufacturer.

An OEM computer maker may re-arrange or re-package materials
they received from the hardware manufacturer.

For example, take a laptop video driver. The panel comes off
a "digital bus" connection, perhaps LVDS. The panel has a
certain size. The system needs VESA information so that
the OS can find the screen. Some products have a low res
and a high res variant, and the software materials have to
match the setup. In such a situation, the OEM computer
maker adds the necessary file to some software. And this
is necessary, because the "panel" isn't actually PNP. The
declarative software added to the package takes care of that.

If the laptop panel had a hidden internal VGA connector, and
the GPU had a VGA output, the two could be plugged together
to make a PNP solution. Any driver would then be "bog standard".
This is why desktop video cards with VGA and HDMI connectors
work so well = they fully support PNP, without tricks.

For something like Wifi, there might be firmware, and
firmware versions.

But some other driver types, would be bog standard, and
no amount of splash graphic in the installer will change
that. If my computer has an Asmedia two port SATA, that'll be
a bog standard driver.

*******

Microsoft has a great deal of leverage in this situation.
If they want to strong-arm the hardware companies to not
provide drivers for Windows 7, they seem to have some
licensing terms (maybe for the "driver kit" that tells
the hardware people how to make a driver), that give
leverage. For example, no manufacturer is allowed to
release their own USB2 or USB3 driver, for... Windows 10.
When ever Microsoft finished the Class driver for a
hardware standard, that's generally where the licensing
cuts in and stops individual driver releases.

Intel likes to "shave the edges" of this situation, by
providing a USB driver. But, about ten lines into the
file, you find

#include usbport.inf

which means basically "call the Microsoft driver and
have Microsoft finish this please". The only thing the
file actually does, is set a text string in Device Manager.

It's my feeling, that Microsoft has used their licensing
leverage, to stop driver support for Win7.

Just as, in the case of the Microsoft attempt to do an
x86 to ARM translator, Intel threatened to send the
lawyer clown car. And so far this year, no Microsoft
ARM based product has appeared with a 32 bit x86 run
capability (I'm still waiting for a "battle royale" :-) ).
So that's an example of the "vice versa", where Microsoft
wanted something, and Intel told them to **** off.
For some strange reason, you'll notice over the years,
that Apple hasn't had too much trouble accommodating
two instruction sets during transition periods.
One presumes either the limited duration of the
transition period, or some cash, quieted up such
a situation. I think one of their solutions
was done by Transitive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_Corporation

"This technology was also licensed by Apple Computer
in its transition from PowerPC to Intel (x86) CPUs,
starting in 2006. Apple marketed this technology as
"Rosetta".
"

I don't remember IBM or Motorola threatening Apple...

Paul
Ads
  #32  
Old July 9th 18, 12:41 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,900
Default Buying Windows 7 - related question


"Paul" wrote

| It's my feeling, that Microsoft has used their licensing
| leverage, to stop driver support for Win7.
|

That may be, but hardware companies can vary a lot.
A few years ago I wanted drivers for an MSI board. MSI
said they no longer supported my system. I then went to
Via, the chipset maker. They had a single download that
supported all then-current systems. MSI was either
incompetent or sleazy. I doubt it was due to any outside
influence.

Dell does do extensive repackaging of drivers and may
sometimes have hardware specific to their product. It
might not be possible to be certain of getting drivers that
will work. That's why I was saying above that it's a
good idea to avoid Dell altogether.



  #33  
Old July 10th 18, 03:44 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,569
Default Buying Windows 7 - related question

Mayayana wrote:
"Paul" wrote

| It's my feeling, that Microsoft has used their licensing
| leverage, to stop driver support for Win7.
|

That may be, but hardware companies can vary a lot.
A few years ago I wanted drivers for an MSI board. MSI
said they no longer supported my system. I then went to
Via, the chipset maker. They had a single download that
supported all then-current systems. MSI was either
incompetent or sleazy. I doubt it was due to any outside
influence.

Dell does do extensive repackaging of drivers and may
sometimes have hardware specific to their product. It
might not be possible to be certain of getting drivers that
will work. That's why I was saying above that it's a
good idea to avoid Dell altogether.


If you want some real fun with drivers, take an
Analog Devices sound chip as an example.

The default support from Analog Devices is a year or two.
So if in the year 2003, an AD sound chip goes on a P5E
motherboard, the clock starts ticking.

Maybe around the end of 2004, your busted AD driver
still isn't working right. (There used to be a popping
sound every ten minutes or so. Like an underrun or overrun.)

Now, say in the year 2006, Asus makes another motherboard,
that happens to use the same AD chip. Bingo, another year
or two of drivers. If you're good with Google, maybe you
discover the P6X uses a driver that you can re-use
pn your P5E. The bus identifiers at the hardware level,
aren't a factor of the motherboard model number, and
so two motherboards separated in time like that,
can "partner" on drivers.

OK, your Asus well is running dry. Your AD chip still
makes the popping sound. *Now*, you start datamining
the HP and Dell sites. As they seem to be paying for
slightly longer support than Asus does. It's still the
same chip, only the four digit revision is a lot higher.

I had loads of fun with that sound chip. I chased after
drivers high and low. You have to be a creative
Googler, if you "expect the very best" in drivers.

Paul
  #34  
Old July 11th 18, 04:00 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Buying Windows 7

Per Ed Cryer:
I want Win7! I want Win7!

This site offers Win7 Pro for 13.99 GBP.
https://goo.gl/rBddg4


No clue as to that site, but I found out the hard way that some retailers
sell "Bad" copies of 7.

i.e. You pay your money, they send you a key, the key works.... but sometime
later MS tells you that key is invalid and your copy of 7 starts slowly
committing suicide until you supply a valid key.

Been there, done that.

Can't recall where I got my "Good" (so far....) copy, but it was one of the
big-name retailers like B&H or NewEgg.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #35  
Old July 11th 18, 04:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Buying Windows 7

Per (PeteCresswell):
Can't recall where I got my "Good" (so far....) copy, but it was one of the
big-name retailers like B&H or NewEgg.


It was B&H.

One caution: my copy came with a sort of "Scatch-and-Sniff" covering over the
license key and I managed to render the key unreadable in my attempt to
uncover it.

But B&H humored me, issued an RMA, and I was able to get another copy.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #36  
Old July 11th 18, 07:37 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,761
Default Buying Windows 7

PeteCresswell wrote:

Per Ed Cryer:

I want Win7! I want Win7!

This site offers Win7 Pro for 13.99 GBP.
https://goo.gl/rBddg4


No clue as to that site, but I found out the hard way that some retailers
sell "Bad" copies of 7.

i.e. You pay your money, they send you a key, the key works.... but sometime
later MS tells you that key is invalid and your copy of 7 starts slowly
committing suicide until you supply a valid key.

Been there, done that.


Me, too. Bought Office 2013 from an eBay seller. The key worked (got
the ISO from Microsoft). About a month later, I noticed eBay had
refunded the purchase. I didn't ask them for that. The key worked for
about 3 years at which time I found out why eBay refunded me. It was a
sliced key out of a volume license and Microsoft had invalidated the
license when they discovered the pirate. The seller disappeared from
eBay (probably started a new identity there). Windows updates had no
problem.

It was when I did a fresh install of the OS and then tried to install
Office 2013 that the key got rejected. I don't remember how but that's
when I checked the key against someplace at Microsoft to find out it was
one seat from a volume license (all seats are to remain within the
custody of the organization that got the volume license). Oh well, time
to upgrade to Office 365 (but I spent a couple months trialing
alternatives before deciding to get Office again).

I got 3 1-year subscriptions to run consecutively from another eBay
seller who I required send me the keys via e-mail (instead of wait for
the license cards by postal mail) immediately after my eBay purchase was
authorized, tested them (and that I got 3 years of subscription), and
checked with Microsoft that they were good. I did not want to wait for
the license cards to arrive in the mail before I could check they
worked.

I have used the Buyer Protection at eBay about 3 times: once for a
product that was never delivered (that seller never responded, so I got
eBay to refund), once for the wrong product (that seller simply refunded
without requiring me to ship back), and once because the product was
defective (that seller didn't require me to ship back the defective one
for which I gave him pics of the damage and sent a new good one).

You have to know what you're buying at eBay (or Amazon or Newegg or any
etailer, especially those that operate frontend stores for sellers other
than the entity whose web site you originally visit). I've seen
counterfeit CR2032 batteries sold at eBay. You can tell by the missing
bubble packaging features and mismatched markings but you have to
research what the legit packaging looks like. When the price is
exceptionally cheap, you have to be exceptionally careful. There are
some good sales there but way too many scammers, and eBay isn't robust
in proactively policing their site (mostly they are reactive to buyer
reports, especially if they have to dole out a refund) since their
imperative is to get a bite of every sale.

The OP said he wants Windows 7. Could be he wants to image his old Win7
host, copy it onto a new host, and update the key to one that he just
purchased. For 14 GBP, he isn't risking much to find out if the key is
good.

http://softwaregeeks.co.uk is registered through GoDaddy. Yet GoDaddy's
WhoIs does NOT list the domain registrant. Doesn't seem to be a private
domain registration (where the registrar usurps IANA's requirement the
domain registrant be identified by listing GoDaddy as the registrant).
Just no info in the domain registration as to who is the registrant.
Seems iffy to me. If an etail is handing monetary transaction, they had
damn well be identified by their domain registration. Look at the WhoIs
for newegg.com and you get plenty of real data on the domain registrant.

Could be the site is dumping their backstock of old Windows versions
hence the low price versus some sites charging a premium, like full
price, or higher, for old software they've had to shelve for many years.
If you look at the site's ad for Windows 7 (using the URL that the OP
gave), notice what they say is the SKU number: Win7ProCOA. Is that a
valid SKU number? Why would a site feel the need to disable mouse
scrolling forcing the visitor to use the scrollbar or page/arrow keys?

Using the London street address the sites gives for their location, I
could find anything on the buildings using Google Maps that noted their
presence. Looks like an office complex and they're buried inside; i.e.,
the only way to find them is to go inside and read a directory placard.
From a few samples of "products" sold at their site, all they are
selling are license keys that are sent via e-mail (that have URLs to a
Microsoft download site). In their About Us web page, they say "All of
our software is available via instant digital download.". Well, don't
need much of an office to process electronics orders and send e-mails
with strings in them for keys. Their physical presence could be the
equivalent of a 1-cubicle office with a desk, one computer, and Internet
access. They aren't selling any physical products, just text strings
(aka digital goods). They operate a digital storefront. Anyone can get
those setup for cheap.
  #37  
Old July 11th 18, 08:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,622
Default Buying Windows 7

On 07/11/2018 1:37 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
PeteCresswell wrote:

Per Ed Cryer:

I want Win7! I want Win7!

This site offers Win7 Pro for 13.99 GBP.
https://goo.gl/rBddg4


No clue as to that site, but I found out the hard way that some retailers
sell "Bad" copies of 7.

i.e. You pay your money, they send you a key, the key works.... but sometime
later MS tells you that key is invalid and your copy of 7 starts slowly
committing suicide until you supply a valid key.

Been there, done that.


Me, too. Bought Office 2013 from an eBay seller. The key worked (got
the ISO from Microsoft). About a month later, I noticed eBay had
refunded the purchase. I didn't ask them for that. The key worked for
about 3 years at which time I found out why eBay refunded me. It was a
sliced key out of a volume license and Microsoft had invalidated the
license when they discovered the pirate. The seller disappeared from
eBay (probably started a new identity there). Windows updates had no
problem.

It was when I did a fresh install of the OS and then tried to install
Office 2013 that the key got rejected. I don't remember how but that's
when I checked the key against someplace at Microsoft to find out it was
one seat from a volume license (all seats are to remain within the
custody of the organization that got the volume license). Oh well, time
to upgrade to Office 365 (but I spent a couple months trialing
alternatives before deciding to get Office again).

I got 3 1-year subscriptions to run consecutively from another eBay
seller who I required send me the keys via e-mail (instead of wait for
the license cards by postal mail) immediately after my eBay purchase was
authorized, tested them (and that I got 3 years of subscription), and
checked with Microsoft that they were good. I did not want to wait for
the license cards to arrive in the mail before I could check they
worked.

I have used the Buyer Protection at eBay about 3 times: once for a
product that was never delivered (that seller never responded, so I got
eBay to refund), once for the wrong product (that seller simply refunded
without requiring me to ship back), and once because the product was
defective (that seller didn't require me to ship back the defective one
for which I gave him pics of the damage and sent a new good one).

You have to know what you're buying at eBay (or Amazon or Newegg or any
etailer, especially those that operate frontend stores for sellers other
than the entity whose web site you originally visit). I've seen
counterfeit CR2032 batteries sold at eBay. You can tell by the missing
bubble packaging features and mismatched markings but you have to
research what the legit packaging looks like. When the price is
exceptionally cheap, you have to be exceptionally careful. There are
some good sales there but way too many scammers, and eBay isn't robust
in proactively policing their site (mostly they are reactive to buyer
reports, especially if they have to dole out a refund) since their
imperative is to get a bite of every sale.

The OP said he wants Windows 7. Could be he wants to image his old Win7
host, copy it onto a new host, and update the key to one that he just
purchased. For 14 GBP, he isn't risking much to find out if the key is
good.

http://softwaregeeks.co.uk is registered through GoDaddy. Yet GoDaddy's
WhoIs does NOT list the domain registrant. Doesn't seem to be a private
domain registration (where the registrar usurps IANA's requirement the
domain registrant be identified by listing GoDaddy as the registrant).
Just no info in the domain registration as to who is the registrant.
Seems iffy to me. If an etail is handing monetary transaction, they had
damn well be identified by their domain registration. Look at the WhoIs
for newegg.com and you get plenty of real data on the domain registrant.

Could be the site is dumping their backstock of old Windows versions
hence the low price versus some sites charging a premium, like full
price, or higher, for old software they've had to shelve for many years.
If you look at the site's ad for Windows 7 (using the URL that the OP
gave), notice what they say is the SKU number: Win7ProCOA. Is that a
valid SKU number? Why would a site feel the need to disable mouse
scrolling forcing the visitor to use the scrollbar or page/arrow keys?

Using the London street address the sites gives for their location, I
could find anything on the buildings using Google Maps that noted their
presence. Looks like an office complex and they're buried inside; i.e.,
the only way to find them is to go inside and read a directory placard.
From a few samples of "products" sold at their site, all they are
selling are license keys that are sent via e-mail (that have URLs to a
Microsoft download site). In their About Us web page, they say "All of
our software is available via instant digital download.". Well, don't
need much of an office to process electronics orders and send e-mails
with strings in them for keys. Their physical presence could be the
equivalent of a 1-cubicle office with a desk, one computer, and Internet
access. They aren't selling any physical products, just text strings
(aka digital goods). They operate a digital storefront. Anyone can get
those setup for cheap.


I wouldn't **** on Ebay if it was on fire!

Rene


  #38  
Old July 12th 18, 12:00 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,761
Default Buying Windows 7

Rene Lamontagne wrote:

On 07/11/2018 1:37 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
PeteCresswell wrote:

Per Ed Cryer:

I want Win7! I want Win7!

This site offers Win7 Pro for 13.99 GBP.
https://goo.gl/rBddg4

No clue as to that site, but I found out the hard way that some retailers
sell "Bad" copies of 7.

i.e. You pay your money, they send you a key, the key works.... but sometime
later MS tells you that key is invalid and your copy of 7 starts slowly
committing suicide until you supply a valid key.

Been there, done that.


Me, too. Bought Office 2013 from an eBay seller. The key worked (got
the ISO from Microsoft). About a month later, I noticed eBay had
refunded the purchase. I didn't ask them for that. The key worked for
about 3 years at which time I found out why eBay refunded me. It was a
sliced key out of a volume license and Microsoft had invalidated the
license when they discovered the pirate. The seller disappeared from
eBay (probably started a new identity there). Windows updates had no
problem.

It was when I did a fresh install of the OS and then tried to install
Office 2013 that the key got rejected. I don't remember how but that's
when I checked the key against someplace at Microsoft to find out it was
one seat from a volume license (all seats are to remain within the
custody of the organization that got the volume license). Oh well, time
to upgrade to Office 365 (but I spent a couple months trialing
alternatives before deciding to get Office again).

I got 3 1-year subscriptions to run consecutively from another eBay
seller who I required send me the keys via e-mail (instead of wait for
the license cards by postal mail) immediately after my eBay purchase was
authorized, tested them (and that I got 3 years of subscription), and
checked with Microsoft that they were good. I did not want to wait for
the license cards to arrive in the mail before I could check they
worked.

I have used the Buyer Protection at eBay about 3 times: once for a
product that was never delivered (that seller never responded, so I got
eBay to refund), once for the wrong product (that seller simply refunded
without requiring me to ship back), and once because the product was
defective (that seller didn't require me to ship back the defective one
for which I gave him pics of the damage and sent a new good one).

You have to know what you're buying at eBay (or Amazon or Newegg or any
etailer, especially those that operate frontend stores for sellers other
than the entity whose web site you originally visit). I've seen
counterfeit CR2032 batteries sold at eBay. You can tell by the missing
bubble packaging features and mismatched markings but you have to
research what the legit packaging looks like. When the price is
exceptionally cheap, you have to be exceptionally careful. There are
some good sales there but way too many scammers, and eBay isn't robust
in proactively policing their site (mostly they are reactive to buyer
reports, especially if they have to dole out a refund) since their
imperative is to get a bite of every sale.

The OP said he wants Windows 7. Could be he wants to image his old Win7
host, copy it onto a new host, and update the key to one that he just
purchased. For 14 GBP, he isn't risking much to find out if the key is
good.

http://softwaregeeks.co.uk is registered through GoDaddy. Yet GoDaddy's
WhoIs does NOT list the domain registrant. Doesn't seem to be a private
domain registration (where the registrar usurps IANA's requirement the
domain registrant be identified by listing GoDaddy as the registrant).
Just no info in the domain registration as to who is the registrant.
Seems iffy to me. If an etail is handing monetary transaction, they had
damn well be identified by their domain registration. Look at the WhoIs
for newegg.com and you get plenty of real data on the domain registrant.

Could be the site is dumping their backstock of old Windows versions
hence the low price versus some sites charging a premium, like full
price, or higher, for old software they've had to shelve for many years.
If you look at the site's ad for Windows 7 (using the URL that the OP
gave), notice what they say is the SKU number: Win7ProCOA. Is that a
valid SKU number? Why would a site feel the need to disable mouse
scrolling forcing the visitor to use the scrollbar or page/arrow keys?

Using the London street address the sites gives for their location, I
could find anything on the buildings using Google Maps that noted their
presence. Looks like an office complex and they're buried inside; i.e.,
the only way to find them is to go inside and read a directory placard.
From a few samples of "products" sold at their site, all they are
selling are license keys that are sent via e-mail (that have URLs to a
Microsoft download site). In their About Us web page, they say "All of
our software is available via instant digital download.". Well, don't
need much of an office to process electronics orders and send e-mails
with strings in them for keys. Their physical presence could be the
equivalent of a 1-cubicle office with a desk, one computer, and Internet
access. They aren't selling any physical products, just text strings
(aka digital goods). They operate a digital storefront. Anyone can get
those setup for cheap.


I wouldn't **** on Ebay if it was on fire!

Rene


The same could be said about any online site. Users have reported
problems with Newegg, and Amazon, and Walmart (all of which operate
storefronts for other sellers so you may not be buying from the site you
visit, especially Amazon who doesn't sell anything themself). Every
site has bad reports. Hell, if you go by user posts in forums and here,
every software is ****. That's because users don't post about the
virtues and extol the wonder of the software but only post to report
problems, so obviously that crowd will be skewed in perspective.

Doesn't have to be online, either. Users report problems at car shops,
department stores, gas stations, yadda yadda.
  #39  
Old July 12th 18, 03:39 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,622
Default Buying Windows 7

On 07/11/2018 9:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:00:07 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:


The same could be said about any online site. Users have reported
problems with Newegg, and Amazon, and Walmart (all of which operate
storefronts for other sellers so you may not be buying from the site you
visit, especially Amazon who doesn't sell anything themself). Every
site has bad reports. Hell, if you go by user posts in forums and here,
every software is ****. That's because users don't post about the
virtues and extol the wonder of the software but only post to report
problems, so obviously that crowd will be skewed in perspective.

Doesn't have to be online, either. Users report problems at car shops,
department stores, gas stations, yadda yadda.


I dealt with ebay one time and got screwed not just by the seller but
ebay themselves. It was ebay's attitude more than the screwing over
by the seller which convinced me to *never* again deal with them.

I have dealt with Amazon for many years and have *never* had a problem
that Amazon did not correct.

To say such nonsense that *all* businesses can give one a problem is
hyper reaching for an example. Ebay give loads of people problems.
As far as I'm concerned, they are crooks. They support the thieves
over the honest customer.


I have never had a problem with Amazon, And I order stuff quite often as
I do not drive so its much easier using Amazon Prime.

Rene


  #40  
Old July 12th 18, 04:01 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,900
Default Buying Windows 7

wrote

| The same could be said about any online site. Users have reported
| problems with Newegg, and Amazon, and Walmart (all of which operate
| storefronts for other sellers so you may not be buying from the site you
| visit, especially Amazon who doesn't sell anything themself).

Another problem is that things change a lot. Tom's
toothpaste used to be made by Tom. Now it's
made by Colgate. Likewise, Ben and Jerry's was bought
out. The amazingly good Smart Food popcorn was
bought by Frito-Lay and that was the end of amazingly
good. (I read that all but one of the "idealists" who
started Smart Food agreed to sell out.)
American cars are made in Haiti while Japanese cars
are made in the US, perhaps with Chinese parts.

Since companies, names and trademarks can be sold,
it's hard to depend on reputations.

I used to buy all computer parts from TigerDirect. I
loved them. Then they sold out to PCMall and my last
order was just like Amazon: TG was just middlemanning.
Each part came from a different dealer, with the result
that I had to track 6-8 packages instead of 1. If Acme
in Ohio is going to sell me a motherboard, then why not
just cut out the TG middleman and buy direct from
Acme? Isn't that the kind of thing the Internet is
supposed to be good for?

Similarly, I used to buy all software from
Buycheapsoftware.com. I bought Visual Studio 6 from
them. I bought several Windows disks to build computers
for friends. I bought Linux disks.... Now they're gone.

I don't know what I'll do next time I decide to build
a computer. I prefer not to deal with Amazon, out of
principle and have never actually bought anything from
them.

Lately I've been trying to avoid Whole Foods
as I get a taste of how Amazon works. TheAmazon
takeover of WF started out with an advertising blitz
about how amazon would usher in cheaper prices.
A few prices were a little cheaper for awhile. Then
that ended. For instance, organic raisins had been
$4.29/#. Amazon put the price down and added a little
sign about how WF + Amazon will save money. That
lasted a couple of months. Now the same raisins are
back to the old price, with a sign that says,
"Everyday Low Price!".

Today I stocked up on fruit from Star
Market, which was selling the same stuff for an average
of half what WF is charging! The only reasonable prices
now are a few sale items that only Prime members can
buy. One example of WF price gouging: Eastern peaches
from the exact same distributor at both stores.
WF: $3.49/#. Star: $1.59/#.

WF grapes from Mexico: $5-6/#. Star organic grapes from
California: $3.49/#.

It's nuts. The WF prices under Amazon jump all over,
clearly with no relation to their costs.

People might like the temporary good deals at Amazon,
but it's a deal with the devil. The more they take over,
the worse it will get. Last I heard, they're still losing money
on sales. They make their profit from web services. They're
not going to keep losing money. Once they establish a
monopoly, Amazon will start milking the suckers who though
they were a great deal.

..... And that's not even getting into their maltreatment of
employees. If people don't hold these companies accountable
then they won't be accountable.




  #42  
Old July 12th 18, 12:10 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,154
Default Buying Windows 7

In message ,
writes:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:00:07 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:


The same could be said about any online site. Users have reported
problems with Newegg, and Amazon, and Walmart (all of which operate
storefronts for other sellers so you may not be buying from the site you
visit, especially Amazon who doesn't sell anything themself). Every


Amazon certainly have sold things themselves in the past; not only right
at the beginning when they started as a bookseller, but more recently I
have still seen things "provided by Amazon something" on them (might
have been a year or two ago though). But you are right, they're _mostly_
at least just an alternative to ebay. (IME more limited selection and
not as good price, though the latter isn't always the case; they also
have reviews - how trustworthy is up to you to decide, but at least
they're there, and sometimes they answer a question you might have -
which mostly ebay don't, for items rather than sellers anyway.)
[]
I dealt with ebay one time and got screwed not just by the seller but
ebay themselves. It was ebay's attitude more than the screwing over
by the seller which convinced me to *never* again deal with them.

[]
To say such nonsense that *all* businesses can give one a problem is
hyper reaching for an example. Ebay give loads of people problems.
As far as I'm concerned, they are crooks. They support the thieves
over the honest customer.


My recent experience with ebay has been extremely positive: where
problems have arisen I've generally received refunds, in at least one
case extremely rapidly, and in several cases with the seller not wanting
the goods back. I guess we're all going to have had different
experiences. It _might_ be that of late I've tended to only buy from UK
suppliers and am maybe better protected by our legislation, though the
few cases where I _have_ bought direct from China things have been fine,
just slow (though not any slower than promised).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The war was over, but all those people were still dead - explainer why the
atmosphere of VE-day did not seem right to her; "Today" 2015-4-27
  #43  
Old July 12th 18, 12:38 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 311
Default Buying Windows 7

On 12/07/2018 12:10, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

My recent experience with ebay has been extremely positive: where
problems have arisen I've generally received refunds, in at least one
case extremely rapidly, and in several cases with the seller not wanting
the goods back.


Yes, despite having the goods twice, once as an order, the second as a
replacement when the original didn't work, and the replacement didn't
work either. I've got the items, though useless to me, and I got my
money back.

though the
few cases where I _have_ bought direct from China things have been fine,
just slow (though not any slower than promised).


The items above were from China. With another item originating from
China but being sold in the UK, the supplier decided it was faulty or
substandard before dispatching it, and emailed me to ask if I was
prepared to wait a while for a replacement, to which I agreed. When the
replacement stock arrived, it too was faulty or substandard, so at that
point I cancelled the order, and obtained the item from the next
cheapest supplier. Despite my asking the question directly, it was
never explained what was wrong with the original supplier's stock, but
my guess is the UK mains lead was not fused, because that's how the unit
from the second supplier came - no matter, I've been working with PCs
for decades, and have spare kettle leads coming out of my ears.
  #44  
Old July 12th 18, 04:52 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ron C[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default Buying Windows 7

On 7/12/2018 7:10 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message ,
writes:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:00:07 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:


The same could be said about any online site.* Users have reported
problems with Newegg, and Amazon, and Walmart (all of which operate
storefronts for other sellers so you may not be buying from the site you
visit, especially Amazon who doesn't sell anything themself).* Every


Amazon certainly have sold things themselves in the past; not only right
at the beginning when they started as a bookseller, but more recently I
have still seen things "provided by Amazon something" on them (might
have been a year or two ago though). But you are right, they're _mostly_
at least just an alternative to ebay. (IME more limited selection and
not as good price, though the latter isn't always the case; they also
have reviews - how trustworthy is up to you to decide, but at least
they're there, and sometimes they answer a question you might have -
which mostly ebay don't, for items rather than sellers anyway.)
[]
I dealt with ebay one time and got screwed not just by the seller but
ebay themselves.* It was ebay's attitude more than the screwing over
by the seller which convinced me to *never** again deal with them.

[]
To say such nonsense that *all* businesses can give one a problem is
hyper reaching for an example.* Ebay give loads of people problems.
As far as I'm concerned, they are crooks. They support the thieves
over the honest customer.


My recent experience with ebay has been extremely positive: where
problems have arisen I've generally received refunds, in at least one
case extremely rapidly, and in several cases with the seller not wanting
the goods back. I guess we're all going to have had different
experiences. It _might_ be that of late I've tended to only buy from UK
suppliers and am maybe better protected by our legislation, though the
few cases where I _have_ bought direct from China things have been fine,
just slow (though not any slower than promised).


I've never had any dealings with e-bay so can't comment on them.
As for Amazon not selling anything of their own, I just got a new
paper shredder and it seems to be an Amazon product .. the logo
on the unit and the instruction sheet say AmazonBasics.

Do a little googling and you'll find that Amazon launched their
Private-Label
'AmazonBasics' Brand several years ago.
--
==
Later...
Ron C
--

 




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