Solar mouse

I have searched for a solar mouse made by Logitech without any result.
Does anyone know of such a thing? I know Logitech makes a solar keyboard
and a compatible solar mouse would be desirable.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 1/8/2014 10:57 AM, James Silverton wrote:
I have searched for a solar mouse made by Logitech without any result.
Does anyone know of such a thing? I know Logitech makes a solar keyboard
and a compatible solar mouse would be desirable.

No they do not have a solar powered mouse. eBay has a few generic solar
mice though.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/solar-mouse

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Professional

On 1/8/2014 11:57 AM, James Silverton wrote:

I have searched for a solar mouse made by Logitech without any result.
Does anyone know of such a thing? I know Logitech makes a solar keyboard
and a compatible solar mouse would be desirable.

Think of the physics involved.

1) Keyboard has a relatively large surface area, for cheap solar panels.
You don't place your fingers in that area of the keyboard, so the panel
stays relatively clean. The mouse has almost no space that will stay clean.
The mouse is curved surfaces, requiring flexible panels. The conversion
efficiency of a flexible panel, will be lower. The best panels, are built
on solid (planar) substrates.

2) Both keyboard and mouse use Wifi. But mouse must send a lot more packets,
due to the need to update coordinates as the mouse flies around. If it
didn't work that way, you couldn't use the mouse for gaming or realtime
precise pointing. The mouse will need a bit more power for its radio.

3) The keyboard uses matrix scanning, and the power level involved there
can be quite low. (If you wanted to save even more power, matrix
scanning is not needed - just a chip with more pins on it - one
pin per keyboard key.) The mouse, on the other hand, runs a LED or laser diode
as an illuminator.

A ball based mouse, would make the power characteristics closer to one another.
A ball based mouse wouldn't have an illuminator, or a gridded photo detector array.

Logitech does make a mouse with a 3 year battery life. It doesn't charge,
but it also doesn't need maintenance all that often. I have no idea
how nasty it is to change batteries on the thing. Whether they're conventional
alkaline batteries, or something else.

The idea of a solar keyboard, would be more practical for the pair,
if there was a dock where the mouse could share in the power bonanza.
But having to dock the mouse all the time when finished, would suck.
You might as well dock the mouse in a conventional charger.

A solar keyboard also implies a well-lit work area. If you work in a
relatively dimly lit room, the keyboard is going to lose the battle
to stay charged.

There are other power scavenging technologies. I've seen an advert
for a chip, which uses weak power sources, to make power for mobile
devices. You could, say, connect a piezoelectric transducer to the
chip, and noise or vibrations would provide microwatt electric power.
You could also bath the room in microwaves, and have microwave
antennas on the mouse, to receive power and charge a battery.
So there are lots of corny ideas, weirder than solar. It's all
a matter of whether the marketing department thinks people will buy
crap like that. Solar is "relatively tame" as a technology. I bet
Nicola Tesla could have charged your mouse, with no wires, and
no solar panel :-) But in doing so, it probably would have fried
all the other electronics in the house :-)

Paul

On 1/8/2014 3:43 PM, Paul wrote:
On 1/8/2014 11:57 AM, James Silverton wrote:

I have searched for a solar mouse made by Logitech without any result.
Does anyone know of such a thing? I know Logitech makes a solar keyboard
and a compatible solar mouse would be desirable.

Think of the physics involved.

1) Keyboard has a relatively large surface area, for cheap solar panels.
You don't place your fingers in that area of the keyboard, so the panel
stays relatively clean. The mouse has almost no space that will stay
clean.
The mouse is curved surfaces, requiring flexible panels. The conversion
efficiency of a flexible panel, will be lower. The best panels, are
built
on solid (planar) substrates.

2) Both keyboard and mouse use Wifi. But mouse must send a lot more
packets,
due to the need to update coordinates as the mouse flies around. If it
didn't work that way, you couldn't use the mouse for gaming or realtime
precise pointing. The mouse will need a bit more power for its radio.

3) The keyboard uses matrix scanning, and the power level involved there
can be quite low. (If you wanted to save even more power, matrix
scanning is not needed - just a chip with more pins on it - one
pin per keyboard key.) The mouse, on the other hand, runs a LED or
laser diode
as an illuminator.

A ball based mouse, would make the power characteristics closer to one
another.
A ball based mouse wouldn't have an illuminator, or a gridded photo
detector array.

Logitech does make a mouse with a 3 year battery life. It doesn't charge,
but it also doesn't need maintenance all that often. I have no idea
how nasty it is to change batteries on the thing. Whether they're
conventional
alkaline batteries, or something else.

The idea of a solar keyboard, would be more practical for the pair,
if there was a dock where the mouse could share in the power bonanza.
But having to dock the mouse all the time when finished, would suck.
You might as well dock the mouse in a conventional charger.

A solar keyboard also implies a well-lit work area. If you work in a
relatively dimly lit room, the keyboard is going to lose the battle
to stay charged.

There are other power scavenging technologies. I've seen an advert
for a chip, which uses weak power sources, to make power for mobile
devices. You could, say, connect a piezoelectric transducer to the
chip, and noise or vibrations would provide microwatt electric power.
You could also bath the room in microwaves, and have microwave
antennas on the mouse, to receive power and charge a battery.
So there are lots of corny ideas, weirder than solar. It's all
a matter of whether the marketing department thinks people will buy
crap like that. Solar is "relatively tame" as a technology. I bet
Nicola Tesla could have charged your mouse, with no wires, and
no solar panel :-) But in doing so, it probably would have fried
all the other electronics in the house :-)

But there are only two button surfaces on the average muse as well as a
thumb wheel.and I guess about 24 cm squared for solar cells, which most
of the day would not be covered. My watch gets along quite well with
about 3 cm squared of solar cells. Talking about Tesla, ou could also
have a solar powered inductive charger doubling as a mouse pad.


--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On 1/08/2014, James Silverton posted:
On 1/8/2014 3:43 PM, Paul wrote:
On 1/8/2014 11:57 AM, James Silverton wrote:

I have searched for a solar mouse made by Logitech without any
result.
Does anyone know of such a thing? I know Logitech makes a solar
keyboard
and a compatible solar mouse would be desirable.

Think of the physics involved.

1) Keyboard has a relatively large surface area, for cheap solar
panels.
You don't place your fingers in that area of the keyboard, so
the panel
stays relatively clean. The mouse has almost no space that will
stay
clean.
The mouse is curved surfaces, requiring flexible panels. The
conversion
efficiency of a flexible panel, will be lower. The best panels,
are
built
on solid (planar) substrates.

2) Both keyboard and mouse use Wifi. But mouse must send a lot more
packets,
due to the need to update coordinates as the mouse flies
around. If it
didn't work that way, you couldn't use the mouse for gaming or
realtime
precise pointing. The mouse will need a bit more power for its
radio.

3) The keyboard uses matrix scanning, and the power level involved
there
can be quite low. (If you wanted to save even more power,
matrix
scanning is not needed - just a chip with more pins on it - one
pin per keyboard key.) The mouse, on the other hand, runs a LED
or
laser diode
as an illuminator.

A ball based mouse, would make the power characteristics closer to
one
another.
A ball based mouse wouldn't have an illuminator, or a gridded photo
detector array.

Logitech does make a mouse with a 3 year battery life. It doesn't
charge,
but it also doesn't need maintenance all that often. I have no idea
how nasty it is to change batteries on the thing. Whether they're
conventional
alkaline batteries, or something else.

The idea of a solar keyboard, would be more practical for the pair,
if there was a dock where the mouse could share in the power
bonanza.
But having to dock the mouse all the time when finished, would
suck.
You might as well dock the mouse in a conventional charger.

A solar keyboard also implies a well-lit work area. If you work in
a
relatively dimly lit room, the keyboard is going to lose the battle
to stay charged.

There are other power scavenging technologies. I've seen an advert
for a chip, which uses weak power sources, to make power for mobile
devices. You could, say, connect a piezoelectric transducer to the
chip, and noise or vibrations would provide microwatt electric
power.
You could also bath the room in microwaves, and have microwave
antennas on the mouse, to receive power and charge a battery.
So there are lots of corny ideas, weirder than solar. It's all
a matter of whether the marketing department thinks people will buy
crap like that. Solar is "relatively tame" as a technology. I bet
Nicola Tesla could have charged your mouse, with no wires, and
no solar panel :-) But in doing so, it probably would have fried
all the other electronics in the house :-)

But there are only two button surfaces on the average muse as well as
a thumb wheel.and I guess about 24 cm squared for solar cells, which
most of the day would not be covered. My watch gets along quite well
with about 3 cm squared of solar cells. Talking about Tesla, ou could
also have a solar powered inductive charger doubling as a mouse pad.

And the power requirement of your watch is the same as that of a mouse?

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 1/8/2014 5:16 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/08/2014, James Silverton posted:
On 1/8/2014 3:43 PM, Paul wrote:
On 1/8/2014 11:57 AM, James Silverton wrote:

I have searched for a solar mouse made by Logitech without any result.
Does anyone know of such a thing? I know Logitech makes a solar keyboard
and a compatible solar mouse would be desirable.

Think of the physics involved.

1) Keyboard has a relatively large surface area, for cheap solar panels.
You don't place your fingers in that area of the keyboard, so the panel
stays relatively clean. The mouse has almost no space that will stay
clean.
The mouse is curved surfaces, requiring flexible panels. The conversion
efficiency of a flexible panel, will be lower. The best panels, are
built
on solid (planar) substrates.

2) Both keyboard and mouse use Wifi. But mouse must send a lot more
packets,
due to the need to update coordinates as the mouse flies around. If it
didn't work that way, you couldn't use the mouse for gaming or realtime
precise pointing. The mouse will need a bit more power for its radio.

3) The keyboard uses matrix scanning, and the power level involved there
can be quite low. (If you wanted to save even more power, matrix
scanning is not needed - just a chip with more pins on it - one
pin per keyboard key.) The mouse, on the other hand, runs a LED or
laser diode
as an illuminator.

A ball based mouse, would make the power characteristics closer to one
another.
A ball based mouse wouldn't have an illuminator, or a gridded photo
detector array.

Logitech does make a mouse with a 3 year battery life. It doesn't charge,
but it also doesn't need maintenance all that often. I have no idea
how nasty it is to change batteries on the thing. Whether they're
conventional
alkaline batteries, or something else.

The idea of a solar keyboard, would be more practical for the pair,
if there was a dock where the mouse could share in the power bonanza.
But having to dock the mouse all the time when finished, would suck.
You might as well dock the mouse in a conventional charger.

A solar keyboard also implies a well-lit work area. If you work in a
relatively dimly lit room, the keyboard is going to lose the battle
to stay charged.

There are other power scavenging technologies. I've seen an advert
for a chip, which uses weak power sources, to make power for mobile
devices. You could, say, connect a piezoelectric transducer to the
chip, and noise or vibrations would provide microwatt electric power.
You could also bath the room in microwaves, and have microwave
antennas on the mouse, to receive power and charge a battery.
So there are lots of corny ideas, weirder than solar. It's all
a matter of whether the marketing department thinks people will buy
crap like that. Solar is "relatively tame" as a technology. I bet
Nicola Tesla could have charged your mouse, with no wires, and
no solar panel :-) But in doing so, it probably would have fried
all the other electronics in the house :-)

But there are only two button surfaces on the average muse as well as a thumb wheel.and I guess about 24 cm squared for solar cells, which most of the day would not be covered. My watch gets along quite well with about 3 cm squared of solar cells. Talking about Tesla, ou could also have a solar powered inductive charger doubling as a mouse pad.

And the power requirement of your watch is the same as that of a mouse?


A digital watch is 2 microamps continuous.

The mouse is bound to be higher, even if the illuminator is
used sparingly (somehow). While a USB mouse has "100mA" printed
on the bottom, I don't think the number is that high. A high
efficiency white LED could be used as an illuminator, and draw
only a couple milliamps. But that would still be 500-1000
times as much as a digital watch.

The RTC (real time clock) on the motherboard draws 10 microamps, but
then you're powering the entire CMOS well in the Southbridge, and there
could be leakage via transmission gates (into other portions
of the chip). I've never seen a breakdown or justification
for the 10uA number. The digital watch on the other hand,
you're only powering as much circuitry as is needed to tell
time. Both circuits use a 32KHz quartz crystal, and ripple
divider to get a 1Hz clock pulse to tell time with.

Paul

On 1/8/2014 4:16 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/08/2014, James Silverton posted:
But there are only two button surfaces on the average muse as well as
a thumb wheel.and I guess about 24 cm squared for solar cells, which
most of the day would not be covered. My watch gets along quite well
with about 3 cm squared of solar cells. Talking about Tesla, ou could
also have a solar powered inductive charger doubling as a mouse pad.

And the power requirement of your watch is the same as that of a mouse?

No! I also have four solar watches and the power requirement is really
low. And the battery will run them for 10 months in total darkness. And
while there are solar mice, they don't seem to run very long. About a
day is what I have seen. I think I rather stick with mice that will run
6 months straight from a single AA rechargeable Ni-MH battery.

I also have two Palm watches (aka WristPDA). I wish those had a solar
cell. As they only last about 30 hours per charge.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 7 Pro SP1

On 1/08/2014, BillW50 posted:
On 1/8/2014 4:16 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/08/2014, James Silverton posted:
But there are only two button surfaces on the average muse as well
as
a thumb wheel.and I guess about 24 cm squared for solar cells,
which
most of the day would not be covered. My watch gets along quite
well
with about 3 cm squared of solar cells. Talking about Tesla, ou
could
also have a solar powered inductive charger doubling as a mouse
pad.

And the power requirement of your watch is the same as that of a
mouse?

No! I also have four solar watches and the power requirement is
really low. And the battery will run them for 10 months in total
darkness. And while there are solar mice, they don't seem to run very
long. About a day is what I have seen. I think I rather stick with
mice that will run 6 months straight from a single AA rechargeable
Ni-MH battery.

I also have two Palm watches (aka WristPDA). I wish those had a solar
cell. As they only last about 30 hours per charge.

Maybe I shouldn't have omitted the SARCASM flag from my post...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 1/8/2014 6:15 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/08/2014, BillW50 posted:
On 1/8/2014 4:16 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/08/2014, James Silverton posted:
But there are only two button surfaces on the average muse as well as
a thumb wheel.and I guess about 24 cm squared for solar cells, which
most of the day would not be covered. My watch gets along quite well
with about 3 cm squared of solar cells. Talking about Tesla, ou could
also have a solar powered inductive charger doubling as a mouse pad.

And the power requirement of your watch is the same as that of a mouse?

No! I also have four solar watches and the power requirement is really
low. And the battery will run them for 10 months in total darkness.
And while there are solar mice, they don't seem to run very long.
About a day is what I have seen. I think I rather stick with mice that
will run 6 months straight from a single AA rechargeable Ni-MH battery.

I also have two Palm watches (aka WristPDA). I wish those had a solar
cell. As they only last about 30 hours per charge.

Maybe I shouldn't have omitted the SARCASM flag from my post...

I don't usually turn out my office lights until bed time so a solar
mouse might get quite some irradiation and I am saying that the charge
produced could easily be 8 times that of my watch, which moves the hands
quite a bit for time zone changes when I fly from Washington, DC, to San
Francisco and gets the Fort Collins time signal several times a day.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On Wed, 08 Jan 2014 15:43:00 -0500, Paul wrote:

Logitech does make a mouse with a 3 year battery life. It doesn't charge,
but it also doesn't need maintenance all that often. I have no idea
how nasty it is to change batteries on the thing. Whether they're conventional
alkaline batteries, or something else.

Which Logitech mouse are you referring to? I use Logitech M705 cordless mice
on my two main systems and at first I was concerned about battery life, but
it's coming up on a year and they are still working fine. They use standard
Alkaline AA cells, which can be changed in seconds, just like a typical TV
remote.

By the way, the M705 is by far my favorite mouse of all time. Very highly
recommended for someone looking for a cordless mouse.

--

Char Jackson

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 10:20:16 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:


I use Logitech M705 cordless mice
on my two main systems and at first I was concerned about battery life, but
it's coming up on a year and they are still working fine. They use standard
Alkaline AA cells, which can be changed in seconds, just like a typical TV
remote.

By the way, the M705 is by far my favorite mouse of all time. Very highly
recommended for someone looking for a cordless mouse.



Can I ask what is that you particularly like about it? I don't care
much whether a mouse is wireless or not, and to me most mice are
pretty much equal (with the exception of the Microsoft Arc Mouse,
which I hate). But my experience with different mice is limited, and
if one is really much better than all the others, I might buy it.

On 1/11/2014 11:36 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 10:20:16 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:


I use Logitech M705 cordless mice
on my two main systems and at first I was concerned about battery life, but
it's coming up on a year and they are still working fine. They use standard
Alkaline AA cells, which can be changed in seconds, just like a typical TV
remote.

By the way, the M705 is by far my favorite mouse of all time. Very highly
recommended for someone looking for a cordless mouse.



Can I ask what is that you particularly like about it? I don't care
much whether a mouse is wireless or not, and to me most mice are
pretty much equal (with the exception of the Microsoft Arc Mouse,
which I hate). But my experience with different mice is limited, and
if one is really much better than all the others, I might buy it.

The Logitech wireless mouse is pretty satisfactory but the battery only
lasts about one third the time of those in the keyboard. I'd probably
gripe less if the battery indication went from good to dead in a bit
longer than about a day.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 11:52:58 -0500, James Silverton
wrote:

On 1/11/2014 11:36 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 10:20:16 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:


I use Logitech M705 cordless mice
on my two main systems and at first I was concerned about battery life, but
it's coming up on a year and they are still working fine. They use standard
Alkaline AA cells, which can be changed in seconds, just like a typical TV
remote.

By the way, the M705 is by far my favorite mouse of all time. Very highly
recommended for someone looking for a cordless mouse.



Can I ask what is that you particularly like about it? I don't care
much whether a mouse is wireless or not, and to me most mice are
pretty much equal (with the exception of the Microsoft Arc Mouse,
which I hate). But my experience with different mice is limited, and
if one is really much better than all the others, I might buy it.

The Logitech wireless mouse is pretty satisfactory but the battery only
lasts about one third the time of those in the keyboard. I'd probably
gripe less if the battery indication went from good to dead in a bit
longer than about a day.


As I said, I don't care much whether a mouse is wireless or not, but
when it comes to keyboards, I don't care at all. I see no big
advantage to a mouse's being wireless (except on a laptop), but I see
*no* advantage to a keyboard's being wireless.

Yes, I suppose there are some people who like to use their keyboard on
their lap, but I'm not one of them. My keyboard stays put.

On 1/11/2014 11:25 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
As I said, I don't care much whether a mouse is wireless or not, but
when it comes to keyboards, I don't care at all. I see no big
advantage to a mouse's being wireless (except on a laptop), but I see
*no* advantage to a keyboard's being wireless.

Yes, I suppose there are some people who like to use their keyboard on
their lap, but I'm not one of them. My keyboard stays put.

I had used keyboards and mice that were just horrible. So I just won't
accept anything. Also wireless has been a godsend for me. As I switch
computers a lot and wires would be a hassle. Also I can still control my
music and volume from one machine while I could be somewhere else in the
house.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 09:36:05 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 10:20:16 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:


I use Logitech M705 cordless mice
on my two main systems and at first I was concerned about battery life, but
it's coming up on a year and they are still working fine. They use standard
Alkaline AA cells, which can be changed in seconds, just like a typical TV
remote.

By the way, the M705 is by far my favorite mouse of all time. Very highly
recommended for someone looking for a cordless mouse.



Can I ask what is that you particularly like about it? I don't care
much whether a mouse is wireless or not, and to me most mice are
pretty much equal (with the exception of the Microsoft Arc Mouse,
which I hate). But my experience with different mice is limited, and
if one is really much better than all the others, I might buy it.

First, its size and shape fit my hand very well. Obviously, this is a YMMV
thing.

Second, being cordless is great for me because I travel 5-6 days a week on
business, setting up and tearing down at least twice a day and sometimes
more. Since it's cordless, the little transceiver stays put in the USB port
semi-permanently and I just have to flip a switch on the bottom of the mouse
to turn it on and start using it.

The third thing that I like is the presence of a small button next to the
wheel that disables the 'click' feature of the wheel, allowing me to scroll
through documents hundreds of lines at a time, if I give the wheel a good
spin. I wasn't sure I'd use this feature at first, but I've come to use it
quite frequently and love it.

Finally, the mouse feels like an excellent bit of kit, to paraphrase a UK
friend of mine. It feels very solidly built, without being heavy or clumsy
to use. I'm less than a week away from a full year of use now, and I'm still
on the original batteries. I tend to use the laptop 10-14 hours a day, so
the battery life seems quite remarkable. Now that I've said that, maybe I
should start carrying a spare set of batteries.

--

Char Jackson