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laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 10th 19, 12:08 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,674
Default laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
[]
If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the latter
two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing their
desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited work use,
I mean).

I bought my first laptop (W9x era), intending to use it only when
travelling or in other situations where my tower machine couldn't be
taken. (I also didn't think I'd get on with a trackpad.) It became my
main machine - I was going to say rapidly, but it might have been
gradually. I have since used laptops for all my computing needs - my
desktop machines going initially weeks then months between being turned
on, and I think it might be over a year now. (And I have got very used
to a trackpad: I have a mouse, but rarely plug it in - of late, mainly
for when the trackpad [driver] misbehaves rather than needing the
differences.)

I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.

Limited keyboard - I was fortunate in that my first laptop still had the
sixpack; I _did_ find the second laptop irritating in having home and
end combined with something else and needing the Fn key. (Fortunately
this one has brought them back.) Also the lack of a numeric keypad (you
get one on _most_ 15" or more laptops anyway these days) meant I
couldn't use the Alt-numpad codes I'd memorised for things like the +/-
symbol, but in practice I've found a little utility called AllChars
actually easier (the sequences are easier to remember!).

All-in-one-ness - i. e. if one part fails, you have to junk the lot.
This hasn't been as much of a problem as I thought: things that have
failed - disc drive was easy to replace; a screen wasn't _too_ hard; and
a wireless card, I just used an external one. (That was on someone
else's machine that had lots of USB and she didn't use them anyway; had
it been me, I might have replaced the card - fiddly, but not difficult.)
The one case that _is_ irritating is where - I think - the internal
power supply (that takes the 19V or battery and gives the internal
supplies) has failed and thus rendered the laptop dead, whereas I think
most of it is actually alive.

No slots (I say in practice because, although in theory laptops can have
them, [a] many don't [b] the standards for laptop expansion slots change
with bewildering rapidity) - I think I was fortunate in that my
transition to laptops coincided with a large move of peripherals that
had previously used cards, to USB. This has continued, accompanied by
changes in desktop slot standards, from PCI (IDE was already dead) to
PCI-E and later, as well as graphic card slots. These changes in both
laptop and desktop slot standards have mostly _not_ been
backward-compatible, unlike USB. My transition has probably also, if I'm
honest, accompanied my changing outlook with ageing: I have less
_desire_ to use things that need plug-in cards (and aren't available via
USB).

Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
and can move from room to room without shutting down.

I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
desktop as my main machine: in fact other than lethargy and nostalgia
I'm not sure why I keep my desktop. But - this is just me; YMMV, and I'm
certainly not saying anyone _should_ change. I just thought I'd answer
Bill-in-Co's question from my own experience.

JPG
---


How about a three-way referendum, allowing second choices?
--
Are petitions unfair? See 255soft.uk (YOUR VOTE COUNTS)! [Pass it on.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A man is not contemptible because he thinks science explains everything, and a
man is not contemptible because he doesn't. - Howard Jacobson, in Radio Times
2010/1/23-29.
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  #2  
Old January 10th 19, 01:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,540
Default laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
| power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
| and can move from room to room without shutting down.
|
| I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
| holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
| willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
| those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
| For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
| relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
| desktop as my main machine

So you've joined the army of Starbucks secretaries,
earnestly staring at screens while they pretend to
be drinking coffee? (Or is it earnestly drinking coffee
while they pretend to look at screens?

I'm just the opposite of what you describe. When
I use a laptop I have it plugged in, and I don't move
from room to room. I'm also not so sure about "a
poor man's UPS". You buy a laptop for maybe $500-1200
and a UPS for $50-80. There's nothing economical
about a laptop. Small is expensive.

We have a laptop that's only used for one thing:
When I go away to the country and want to be able
to read articles saved and/or listen to audio talks.
No Internet. No typing. Just file storage and display.
I find it works OK for that. Otherwise, as far as I'm
concerned, life's too short for laptops.

Which brings up why tablets are such a bad idea.
They're more mobile than a laptop, but with an even
smaller screen, even less functionality, and limited
file access. I can't put a DVD into a tablet and then
use my choice of programs to read the files.

But doesn't it depend a lot on how you use it?
If you *must* write a report and your only free
time is on a plane, then you use a laptop. If you
can't stand to go on vacation for a week without
having email, then you use a laptop (or cellphone).
I don't do either of those things. Sometimes I miss
my computer when I go away. I figure that's a
good reason not to have access to it.

I do a fair amount of writing and reading, as well
as software coding, image editing and web design.
Sitting at a computer is best in a number of ways,
but mainly it's about ergonomics. I can sit up straight,
with a proper keyboard and trackball, and a 24" screen.
Using a laptop, to me, would be like eating dinner
out of a paper cup with a toy fork because I want
to be ready to dash out the door if necessary. I'm
not that important and my life is not that busy that
I need to live uncivilized, "on the edge of my seat".

A lot of people don't need to write reports. Many
of them wonder why anyone needs something other
than a cellphone. That seems to be the most typical
that I see now. People have a laptop somewhere,
for doing their taxes and such. But mostly they're
just Facebookies -- "doing social", texting and shopping
on their cellphones.
My neighbor, a research biologist, recently called to
ask if he could print something. He apparently has a
laptop but no printer. He just uses the one at his lab.

Most of those people answer email from a phone. It
works. But it's fooling oneself to think it's just the
same thing made easy. No one writes in any serious
way on a cellphone. If they're always on the move
so that they can't make a proper response then they're
living slapdash. They just don't realize it because
they've become so speedy. Like the email I got from
a friend yesterday: OK.thx.

It's time to stop and regroup when you find you don't
have time to type the word "thanks".


  #3  
Old January 10th 19, 02:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,674
Default laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
| power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
| and can move from room to room without shutting down.
|
| I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
| holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
| willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
| those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
| For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
| relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
| desktop as my main machine

So you've joined the army of Starbucks secretaries,
earnestly staring at screens while they pretend to
be drinking coffee? (Or is it earnestly drinking coffee
while they pretend to look at screens?


(-: [I don't actually go to the expensive coffee-shops.]

I'm just the opposite of what you describe. When
I use a laptop I have it plugged in, and I don't move


Me too. I hardly use it on battery at all.

from room to room. I'm also not so sure about "a
poor man's UPS". You buy a laptop for maybe $500-1200
and a UPS for $50-80. There's nothing economical
about a laptop. Small is expensive.


I suppose I meant that the UPS function comes free, as it were, with a
laptop, unless the battery's completely shot.

We have a laptop that's only used for one thing:
When I go away to the country and want to be able
to read articles saved and/or listen to audio talks.
No Internet. No typing. Just file storage and display.


If that's the use - especially the no-typing part -and you're willing to
switch between it and your desktop machine, I think a tablet would be
better: longer battery life and lighter.

I find it works OK for that. Otherwise, as far as I'm
concerned, life's too short for laptops.


Everyone's M Vs.

Which brings up why tablets are such a bad idea.
They're more mobile than a laptop, but with an even
smaller screen, even less functionality, and limited
file access.


And for me, no keyboard. As for buying a case for them with a keyboard
in it, doesn't that then just turn them into a very inferior laptop!
(OK, with longer battery life.) But for your just-reading-and-listening,
I'd have thought they're fine.
[]
But doesn't it depend a lot on how you use it?
If you *must* write a report and your only free
time is on a plane, then you use a laptop. If you
can't stand to go on vacation for a week without
having email, then you use a laptop (or cellphone).
I don't do either of those things. Sometimes I miss
my computer when I go away. I figure that's a
good reason not to have access to it.


(-:

I do a fair amount of writing and reading, as well
as software coding, image editing and web design.
Sitting at a computer is best in a number of ways,
but mainly it's about ergonomics. I can sit up straight,
with a proper keyboard and trackball, and a 24" screen.


I can sit or lie anywhere with my laptop. (Even on my lap, sometimes!)
As long as there's a powerpoint nearby.
[]
A lot of people don't need to write reports. Many
of them wonder why anyone needs something other
than a cellphone. That seems to be the most typical
that I see now. People have a laptop somewhere,
for doing their taxes and such. But mostly they're
just Facebookies -- "doing social", texting and shopping
on their cellphones.


I don't do any of the modern social media (I consider usenet a [very
superior of course] social medium, of course). I rarely use my
smartphone: I really only bought it as a replacement when my dumbphone
died. About the only "app" (I hate that word) I use on it at all
regularly is the wifi network grapher.

My neighbor, a research biologist, recently called to
ask if he could print something. He apparently has a
laptop but no printer. He just uses the one at his lab.


I don't have a functioning one at the moment; I rarely need to print. I
used to do all my printing at work, when I was working. (I'm broken -
not working - now.)

Most of those people answer email from a phone. It
works. But it's fooling oneself to think it's just the
same thing made easy. No one writes in any serious
way on a cellphone. If they're always on the move


Thoroughly agree.
[]
a friend yesterday: OK.thx.

It's time to stop and regroup when you find you don't
have time to type the word "thanks".

(-:

[]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that
may never be questioned.
  #4  
Old January 10th 19, 03:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Zaidy036[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 423
Default laptops

On 1/10/2019 8:59 AM, Mayayana wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
| power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
| and can move from room to room without shutting down.
|
| I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
| holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
| willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
| those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
| For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
| relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
| desktop as my main machine

So you've joined the army of Starbucks secretaries,
earnestly staring at screens while they pretend to
be drinking coffee? (Or is it earnestly drinking coffee
while they pretend to look at screens?

I'm just the opposite of what you describe. When
I use a laptop I have it plugged in, and I don't move
from room to room. I'm also not so sure about "a
poor man's UPS". You buy a laptop for maybe $500-1200
and a UPS for $50-80. There's nothing economical
about a laptop. Small is expensive.

We have a laptop that's only used for one thing:
When I go away to the country and want to be able
to read articles saved and/or listen to audio talks.
No Internet. No typing. Just file storage and display.
I find it works OK for that. Otherwise, as far as I'm
concerned, life's too short for laptops.

Which brings up why tablets are such a bad idea.
They're more mobile than a laptop, but with an even
smaller screen, even less functionality, and limited
file access. I can't put a DVD into a tablet and then
use my choice of programs to read the files.

But doesn't it depend a lot on how you use it?
If you *must* write a report and your only free
time is on a plane, then you use a laptop. If you
can't stand to go on vacation for a week without
having email, then you use a laptop (or cellphone).
I don't do either of those things. Sometimes I miss
my computer when I go away. I figure that's a
good reason not to have access to it.

I do a fair amount of writing and reading, as well
as software coding, image editing and web design.
Sitting at a computer is best in a number of ways,
but mainly it's about ergonomics. I can sit up straight,
with a proper keyboard and trackball, and a 24" screen.
Using a laptop, to me, would be like eating dinner
out of a paper cup with a toy fork because I want
to be ready to dash out the door if necessary. I'm
not that important and my life is not that busy that
I need to live uncivilized, "on the edge of my seat".

A lot of people don't need to write reports. Many
of them wonder why anyone needs something other
than a cellphone. That seems to be the most typical
that I see now. People have a laptop somewhere,
for doing their taxes and such. But mostly they're
just Facebookies -- "doing social", texting and shopping
on their cellphones.
My neighbor, a research biologist, recently called to
ask if he could print something. He apparently has a
laptop but no printer. He just uses the one at his lab.

Most of those people answer email from a phone. It
works. But it's fooling oneself to think it's just the
same thing made easy. No one writes in any serious
way on a cellphone. If they're always on the move
so that they can't make a proper response then they're
living slapdash. They just don't realize it because
they've become so speedy. Like the email I got from
a friend yesterday: OK.thx.

It's time to stop and regroup when you find you don't
have time to type the word "thanks".


But you can load any file onto a tablet using a free program called "Air
Transfer" so CD/DVD not required. iPad is very light and better for
travel. Easy to use on airplane. Admit typing vs. laptop not the best.

--
Zaidy036
  #5  
Old January 10th 19, 04:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,211
Default laptops

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
[]
If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the latter
two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing their
desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited work use,
I mean).

I bought my first laptop (W9x era), intending to use it only when
travelling or in other situations where my tower machine couldn't be
taken. (I also didn't think I'd get on with a trackpad.) It became my
main machine - I was going to say rapidly, but it might have been
gradually. I have since used laptops for all my computing needs - my
desktop machines going initially weeks then months between being turned
on, and I think it might be over a year now. (And I have got very used
to a trackpad: I have a mouse, but rarely plug it in - of late, mainly
for when the trackpad [driver] misbehaves rather than needing the
differences.)

I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.

Limited keyboard - I was fortunate in that my first laptop still had the
sixpack; I _did_ find the second laptop irritating in having home and
end combined with something else and needing the Fn key. (Fortunately
this one has brought them back.) Also the lack of a numeric keypad (you
get one on _most_ 15" or more laptops anyway these days) meant I
couldn't use the Alt-numpad codes I'd memorised for things like the +/-
symbol, but in practice I've found a little utility called AllChars
actually easier (the sequences are easier to remember!).

All-in-one-ness - i. e. if one part fails, you have to junk the lot.
This hasn't been as much of a problem as I thought: things that have
failed - disc drive was easy to replace; a screen wasn't _too_ hard; and
a wireless card, I just used an external one. (That was on someone
else's machine that had lots of USB and she didn't use them anyway; had
it been me, I might have replaced the card - fiddly, but not difficult.)
The one case that _is_ irritating is where - I think - the internal
power supply (that takes the 19V or battery and gives the internal
supplies) has failed and thus rendered the laptop dead, whereas I think
most of it is actually alive.

No slots (I say in practice because, although in theory laptops can have
them, [a] many don't [b] the standards for laptop expansion slots change
with bewildering rapidity) - I think I was fortunate in that my
transition to laptops coincided with a large move of peripherals that
had previously used cards, to USB. This has continued, accompanied by
changes in desktop slot standards, from PCI (IDE was already dead) to
PCI-E and later, as well as graphic card slots. These changes in both
laptop and desktop slot standards have mostly _not_ been
backward-compatible, unlike USB. My transition has probably also, if I'm
honest, accompanied my changing outlook with ageing: I have less
_desire_ to use things that need plug-in cards (and aren't available via
USB).

Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
and can move from room to room without shutting down.

I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
desktop as my main machine: in fact other than lethargy and nostalgia
I'm not sure why I keep my desktop. But - this is just me; YMMV, and I'm
certainly not saying anyone _should_ change. I just thought I'd answer
Bill-in-Co's question from my own experience.

JPG
---

How about a three-way referendum, allowing second choices?


When travelling, a Chromebook is more than sufficient. No matter what
portable computer I take, almost all (perhaps all) of what I need to do
while travelling will incur a web browser. E-mail, remoting to work,
buying tickets, checking restaurant hours, getting directions and
mapping, finding entertainment, ordering stuff, and just about anything
I do while travelling is done via a web browser and that's what a
Chromebook does. If I don't have the Internet while travelling (via
wifi, cable, or cellular data), it doesn't matter what I bring since it
won't be usable to me. My choice is one of convenience, not of
functionality. I have a laptop, netbook, and Chromebook along with my
smartphone and none are convenient nor comfortable nor speedy for
entering a lot of text or doing much beyond using a web browser. The
human interface of these portable devices suck. You could use a docking
station to connect to a better monitor, keyboard, and mouse but that's
only needed if you cannot afford a decent desktop PC.

At home, the Chromebook collects dust. There is no way it or a tablet
or a laptop (even those loaned to me from work) are robust enough in CPU
and GPU to do my home-based computer work. I see no reason to struggle
to perform compiling, graphics editing, documentation, or other tasks
using an underpowered laptop or less.

I can afford a robust desktop along with convenient portable computers
and a decent smartphone. If you can afford just one choice, what you
choose depends on whether you really need to tote something with you
when moving around. My smartphone suffices for most portability needs.
The Chromebook is for everyone in the group to share and is better for
keyboarding than the crappy touch keyboard on a smartphone. On
vacation, the resorts have their own computer rooms and you can find
lots of Internet cafes or even libraries, so you could afford to forego
bringing your own. If you can afford more than one choice for a
computing platform, pick those that match your needs under varying
conditions, and that likely results in choosing more than one computer.

When I'm at home, I use Charmin Ultra Strong in mega rolls. When I'm
away from home, I use whatever cheap toilet paper the store, resort, or
other place provides. That doesn't mean I prefer the cheap stuff. It's
simply convenient but not preferred. Using a Chromebook, laptop, or
netbook is like you toting along the cheap toilet paper because it is
lightweight (both in weight and in computing power). It is possible to
use PCs of others (Internet cafes, libraries, resorts) but that relies
on someone else to provide the cheap toilet paper.

I could tote a screwdriver in my pocket and use it for various purposes,
like as a hammer, pry bar, ice chopper, door wedge, and even as a
screwdriver. However, at home I have the proper tools for the jobs. I
would hardly equate a single screwdriver to the multitudes of toolboxes,
tool cabinets, pegboards, and benches with all my tools. I also carry a
couple of Gerber mini-multitools in my pockets. Very handy when away
from my cache of tools at home but nowhere near the same functionality.
I could use the serrated saw in the minitool to cut a hole in sheetrock
but I have much better tools for that at home, or even in my car in a
toolbox. I have tools of convenience, tools that are portable, and
tools best for the job because I can afford to choose. I'd hate to be
so poor as to choose just one and try to use it under all scenarios.
  #6  
Old January 10th 19, 04:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,540
Default laptops

"Zaidy036" wrote

| But you can load any file onto a tablet using a free program called "Air
| Transfer" so CD/DVD not required.

Air transfer from....? You've suddenly brought
in a need for a computer and bluetooth in order
to read files on this supposedly portable device.
What if I have 3 DVDs I want to access? I'm going
to load it all via bluetooth onto an overpriced iPad?
Wouldn't it be easier to just pack up my computer
in styrofoam and take that? And then I can read on
a human-sized screen.

We actually have an iPad here. I've never really
looked at it. I have no reason to research how and
if I can shoehorn the file formats I want onto that
tiny device and whether I can get good software
to open them. My ladyfriend bought the iPad. She
uses it only occasionally, to write email when away
travelling.

| iPad is very light and better for
| travel. Easy to use on airplane. Admit typing vs. laptop not the best.
|

A lot of people seem to agree with you. All
I see is a smaller screen with more limited
functionality with a lot less control. Even when
I travel with a laptop, I'm not carrying it around
to coffee shops or using it on planes. I pack it
and use it at the other end. So losing a couple
of pounds holds no appeal.

I once went with a friend to check out tablets.
I asked the Apple disciple if I could access the file
system on an iPad. He didn't understand. After
much conferring he said that, yes, there's an app for
that. It's called Exporer! I though it was very telling
that he hadn't thought of managing files.

Then we went to the Microsoft store. They had
tablets with full Windows for about $500. That
was impressive. It really was Windows, not just
a limited kiosk OS. But then I realized: I could buy
the same thing as a desktop or laptop, probably
for less money, with a lot better functionality. For
me, since I don't have to carry it all day, smaller
just means less functional. A tricycle saves on
gas, yes, but it doesn't do what a car does.




  #7  
Old January 10th 19, 04:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,171
Default laptops

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:34:22 -0500, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2019-01-10 07:08, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[...]

I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
desktop as my main machine: in fact other than lethargy and nostalgia
I'm not sure why I keep my desktop. But - this is just me; YMMV, and I'm
certainly not saying anyone _should_ change. I just thought I'd answer
Bill-in-Co's question from my own experience.

JPG


We have a laptop, a Surface tablet PC, this desktop, and a smartphone.
Pretty soon, I'll buy a newer Surface tablet PC or laptop, and ditch the
old one. Reasons as described above. The tablet PC is good for travel,
and that's all we use it for these days.

A desktop is a business/work machine. Too cumbersome for anything else.

The smartphone is a quick'n'easy connection to email/web/etc. Handy when
a laptop is too large (as e.g. when dining out).



I have an old laptop, a smaller laptop (netbook), and a tablet. They
were all bought for traveling, and each was bought because it was
smaller and lighter than its predecessor.

I don't use any of them anymore. These days I just travel with my
smart phone, which is smaller and lighter than all of them, and does
everything I want it to do: Kindle, e-mail, web, and Google maps.

I know that a lot of people are like J. P. Gilliver, and use a laptop
in place of a desktop at home. But I can never understand why.
  #8  
Old January 10th 19, 04:41 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:05:58 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
[]
If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the latter
two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing their
desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited work use,
I mean).

I bought my first laptop (W9x era), intending to use it only when
travelling or in other situations where my tower machine couldn't be
taken. (I also didn't think I'd get on with a trackpad.) It became my
main machine - I was going to say rapidly, but it might have been
gradually. I have since used laptops for all my computing needs - my
desktop machines going initially weeks then months between being turned
on, and I think it might be over a year now. (And I have got very used
to a trackpad: I have a mouse, but rarely plug it in - of late, mainly
for when the trackpad [driver] misbehaves rather than needing the
differences.)

I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.



I'll add five concerns to that. In no particular order:

1. Small screen. On my desktop I use two 24" monitors and wish I had a
third one.

2. Increased likelihood of being lost or stolen.

3. Increased danger of being dropped and broken,

4. Increased cost of being repaired.

5. So difficult to upgrade that it's more likely the whole computer
has to be replaced.

It's because of Bill's three concerns and my five that I never
understand why someone chooses to use a laptop at home instead of a
desktop. But as I said in another message a few minutes ago, more and
more people are doing it, and if I'm not in the minority yet, I soon
will be. I wouldn't be surprised if, within a few years, only laptops
are sold and not desktops.



Limited keyboard - I was fortunate in that my first laptop still had the
sixpack; I _did_ find the second laptop irritating in having home and
end combined with something else and needing the Fn key. (Fortunately
this one has brought them back.) Also the lack of a numeric keypad (you
get one on _most_ 15" or more laptops anyway these days) meant I
couldn't use the Alt-numpad codes I'd memorised for things like the +/-
symbol, but in practice I've found a little utility called AllChars
actually easier (the sequences are easier to remember!).

All-in-one-ness - i. e. if one part fails, you have to junk the lot.
This hasn't been as much of a problem as I thought: things that have
failed - disc drive was easy to replace; a screen wasn't _too_ hard; and
a wireless card, I just used an external one. (That was on someone
else's machine that had lots of USB and she didn't use them anyway; had
it been me, I might have replaced the card - fiddly, but not difficult.)
The one case that _is_ irritating is where - I think - the internal
power supply (that takes the 19V or battery and gives the internal
supplies) has failed and thus rendered the laptop dead, whereas I think
most of it is actually alive.

No slots (I say in practice because, although in theory laptops can have
them, [a] many don't [b] the standards for laptop expansion slots change
with bewildering rapidity) - I think I was fortunate in that my
transition to laptops coincided with a large move of peripherals that
had previously used cards, to USB. This has continued, accompanied by
changes in desktop slot standards, from PCI (IDE was already dead) to
PCI-E and later, as well as graphic card slots. These changes in both
laptop and desktop slot standards have mostly _not_ been
backward-compatible, unlike USB. My transition has probably also, if I'm
honest, accompanied my changing outlook with ageing: I have less
_desire_ to use things that need plug-in cards (and aren't available via
USB).

Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
and can move from room to room without shutting down.

I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
desktop as my main machine: in fact other than lethargy and nostalgia
I'm not sure why I keep my desktop. But - this is just me; YMMV, and I'm
certainly not saying anyone _should_ change. I just thought I'd answer
Bill-in-Co's question from my own experience.

JPG
---

How about a three-way referendum, allowing second choices?


When travelling, a Chromebook is more than sufficient.



For me, as I just said in another message, my smart phone is
sufficient. And it's smaller and lighter than your Chromebook.


No matter what
portable computer I take, almost all (perhaps all) of what I need to do
while travelling will incur a web browser. E-mail, remoting to work,
buying tickets, checking restaurant hours, getting directions and
mapping, finding entertainment, ordering stuff, and just about anything
I do while travelling is done via a web browser and that's what a
Chromebook does. If I don't have the Internet while travelling (via
wifi, cable, or cellular data), it doesn't matter what I bring since it
won't be usable to me. My choice is one of convenience, not of
functionality. I have a laptop, netbook, and Chromebook along with my
smartphone and none are convenient nor comfortable nor speedy for
entering a lot of text or doing much beyond using a web browser. The
human interface of these portable devices suck. You could use a docking
station to connect to a better monitor, keyboard, and mouse but that's
only needed if you cannot afford a decent desktop PC.



Not to mention that it's very difficult to travel with a monitor,
keyboard, and mouse.
  #9  
Old January 10th 19, 04:45 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,171
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On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:19:59 -0500, Zaidy036
wrote:

On 1/10/2019 8:59 AM, Mayayana wrote:

Most of those people answer email from a phone. It
works. But it's fooling oneself to think it's just the
same thing made easy. No one writes in any serious
way on a cellphone. If they're always on the move
so that they can't make a proper response then they're
living slapdash. They just don't realize it because
they've become so speedy. Like the email I got from
a friend yesterday: OK.thx.




I answer e-mail from a phone only when I travel. I *don't* think it's
just the same thing made easy; the only messages I answer are those
that are urgent. And if I do answer a message, it's usually an
abbreviated answer with a note "I'll send more after I get home."


  #10  
Old January 10th 19, 05:34 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,674
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In message , Ken Blake
writes:
[]
I know that a lot of people are like J. P. Gilliver, and use a laptop
in place of a desktop at home. But I can never understand why.


I can only speak for myself, but it's the hassle of switching computers.
I travel between homes, such as other people's that I'm staying with,
and like to have a computer there, of reasonable functionality. I don't
trust (either for trust reasons or reliability) the cloud, so syncing
isn't on for me, and I like to have all my files on the computer I'm
using.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - , 1998
  #11  
Old January 10th 19, 05:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,674
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In message , Ken Blake
writes:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:05:58 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.



I'll add five concerns to that. In no particular order:

1. Small screen. On my desktop I use two 24" monitors and wish I had a
third one.


We obviously computer in different ways. I am not a software engineer,
so don't need lots of compiler windows. I _do_ have ten things open on
here at the moment, including two browsers, but find Alt-Tabbing not a
problem; YMMV.

2. Increased likelihood of being lost or stolen.

3. Increased danger of being dropped and broken,


Can't argue with either of those.

4. Increased cost of being repaired.

5. So difficult to upgrade that it's more likely the whole computer
has to be replaced.


True. I change computers sufficiently rarely (I think "cold dead hands"
might enter into it) that I generally do anyway. (Car ditto.)

It's because of Bill's three concerns and my five that I never
understand why someone chooses to use a laptop at home instead of a
desktop. But as I said in another message a few minutes ago, more and
more people are doing it, and if I'm not in the minority yet, I soon
will be. I wouldn't be surprised if, within a few years, only laptops
are sold and not desktops.

Or only tablets and smartphones. Or, possibly, only desktops and
tablets/smartphones - dektops for "serious" users, and the rest - even
we semi-"serious" - will be _stuck_ with the toys.
[]
When travelling, a Chromebook is more than sufficient.



For me, as I just said in another message, my smart phone is
sufficient. And it's smaller and lighter than your Chromebook.

Yes. I've never really got to grips with using either, but I know that's
me, not them. (The odd times I've tried to use either my smartphone
[Android 4.2.2] or my friends' iPhones, I've found the way they work to
be sufficiently different from Windows [and each other!] as to be
incredibly frustrating. I'm too old - and I'm only 58.)
[]
Not to mention that it's very difficult to travel with a monitor,
keyboard, and mouse.


Though I used to do so!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Veni Vidi Vacuum [I came, I saw, It sucked] - , 1998
  #12  
Old January 10th 19, 05:52 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,171
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On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:43:01 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Ken Blake
writes:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:05:58 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.



I'll add five concerns to that. In no particular order:

1. Small screen. On my desktop I use two 24" monitors and wish I had a
third one.


We obviously computer in different ways.




As almost any two people do.


I am not a software engineer,
so don't need lots of compiler windows. I _do_ have ten things open on
here at the moment, including two browsers, but find Alt-Tabbing not a
problem; YMMV.

2. Increased likelihood of being lost or stolen.

3. Increased danger of being dropped and broken,


Can't argue with either of those.

4. Increased cost of being repaired.

5. So difficult to upgrade that it's more likely the whole computer
has to be replaced.


True. I change computers sufficiently rarely (I think "cold dead hands"
might enter into it) that I generally do anyway. (Car ditto.)

It's because of Bill's three concerns and my five that I never
understand why someone chooses to use a laptop at home instead of a
desktop. But as I said in another message a few minutes ago, more and
more people are doing it, and if I'm not in the minority yet, I soon
will be. I wouldn't be surprised if, within a few years, only laptops
are sold and not desktops.

Or only tablets and smartphones. Or, possibly, only desktops and
tablets/smartphones - dektops for "serious" users, and the rest - even
we semi-"serious" - will be _stuck_ with the toys.
[]
When travelling, a Chromebook is more than sufficient.



For me, as I just said in another message, my smart phone is
sufficient. And it's smaller and lighter than your Chromebook.

Yes. I've never really got to grips with using either, but I know that's
me, not them. (The odd times I've tried to use either my smartphone
[Android 4.2.2] or my friends' iPhones, I've found the way they work to
be sufficiently different from Windows [and each other!] as to be
incredibly frustrating. I'm too old - and I'm only 58.)
[]
Not to mention that it's very difficult to travel with a monitor,
keyboard, and mouse.


Though I used to do so!

  #13  
Old January 10th 19, 05:55 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,171
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On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:43:01 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Ken Blake
writes:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:05:58 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]
I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.



I'll add five concerns to that. In no particular order:

1. Small screen. On my desktop I use two 24" monitors and wish I had a
third one.


We obviously computer in different ways. I am not a software engineer,
so don't need lots of compiler windows. I _do_ have ten things open on
here at the moment, including two browsers, but find Alt-Tabbing not a
problem; YMMV.

2. Increased likelihood of being lost or stolen.

3. Increased danger of being dropped and broken,


Can't argue with either of those.

4. Increased cost of being repaired.

5. So difficult to upgrade that it's more likely the whole computer
has to be replaced.


True. I change computers sufficiently rarely (I think "cold dead hands"
might enter into it) that I generally do anyway. (Car ditto.)

It's because of Bill's three concerns and my five that I never
understand why someone chooses to use a laptop at home instead of a
desktop. But as I said in another message a few minutes ago, more and
more people are doing it, and if I'm not in the minority yet, I soon
will be. I wouldn't be surprised if, within a few years, only laptops
are sold and not desktops.

Or only tablets and smartphones. Or, possibly, only desktops and
tablets/smartphones - dektops for "serious" users, and the rest - even
we semi-"serious" - will be _stuck_ with the toys.
[]
When travelling, a Chromebook is more than sufficient.



For me, as I just said in another message, my smart phone is
sufficient. And it's smaller and lighter than your Chromebook.

Yes. I've never really got to grips with using either, but I know that's
me, not them. (The odd times I've tried to use either my smartphone
[Android 4.2.2] or my friends' iPhones, I've found the way they work to
be sufficiently different from Windows [and each other!] as to be
incredibly frustrating. I'm too old - and I'm only 58.)



You're a youngster. g I'm 81.

A smartphone is relatively new to me too. I've had mine for about two
years.


Not to mention that it's very difficult to travel with a monitor,
keyboard, and mouse.


Though I used to do so!



You traveled in a car? Surely not an airplane, which is how I do most
of my traveling?
  #14  
Old January 10th 19, 06:01 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Big Al[_5_]
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Posts: 1,383
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On 1/10/19 11:23 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I know that a lot of people are like J. P. Gilliver, and use a laptop
in place of a desktop at home. But I can never understand why.


I dropped the desktop for a laptop when laptops became more powerful,
quite a few years ago. I have beside me a 4GB, and 2 2GB 2.5" USB power
HDs. That's enough storage for anything I need.

I'm also in my 70's and have back issues, don't play power games.
Sitting at the desktop was not enjoyable anymore. Damn 'golden years'
my foot! Needing a quick lookup on Google was inconvenient on the
desktop while my laptop just stands up beside my chair in sleep mode and
is ready in seconds.

It's more of a lifestyle thing.

Al


  #15  
Old January 10th 19, 06:20 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,211
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Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:05:58 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
[]
If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the latter
two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing their
desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited work use,
I mean).

I bought my first laptop (W9x era), intending to use it only when
travelling or in other situations where my tower machine couldn't be
taken. (I also didn't think I'd get on with a trackpad.) It became my
main machine - I was going to say rapidly, but it might have been
gradually. I have since used laptops for all my computing needs - my
desktop machines going initially weeks then months between being turned
on, and I think it might be over a year now. (And I have got very used
to a trackpad: I have a mouse, but rarely plug it in - of late, mainly
for when the trackpad [driver] misbehaves rather than needing the
differences.)

I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.


I'll add five concerns to that. In no particular order:

1. Small screen. On my desktop I use two 24" monitors and wish I had a
third one.


I mentioned using a docking station but you could just connect the USB
keyboard and mouse and an external monitor to the portables to have a
larger screen; however, the resolution is likely a lot less than you can
get with a video daughtercard in a desktop. Having to repeatedly plug
and unplug USB cables into the portable increases the chance of damage
to those ports. As to multi-monitor support, not likely with a
portable.

2. Increased likelihood of being lost or stolen.


Portability requires low weight and small size. Easier to lose small
stuff. That's why I leave enabled the locate feature built into my
smartphone so I can find it (and disable it so a thief can't use it).

3. Increased danger of being dropped and broken,


Alas, few users ever dust out their desktops which they often put on the
floor. Anything with airflow needs periodic cleaning. Users will
notice the lint accumulating on their table fan but still neglect
dusting out their laptops or desktops.

4. Increased cost of being repaired.


Chromebook are very easy to repair. Unlike laptops and netbooks,
Chromebooks are made for easy disassembly. I've had to work on laptops
and Chromebooks are far easier to open and replace parts. That's why
the schools love 'em.

5. So difficult to upgrade that it's more likely the whole computer
has to be replaced.


I've never bothered to crack open a netbook. Basically you're right
the buy it and later replace the whole thing. Tablets and
smartphones are the same. When I design a desktop build, I plan on a
lifespan of 8 years. Smartphones are usually replaced after 2 years
(yep, users just gotta have the latest and greatest). I suspect tablets
and netbooks don't have much beyond a 4-year lifespan when users get the
itch to get something better.

The most likely upgrades are CPU, memory, storage, and GPU. Most users
never consider replacing the CPU in their desktops, so they end up
having to buy a whole new desktop instead of upgrading the CPU (which
may require a better motherboard, too). Memory and storage is an easy
upgrade in laptops and desktops. To me, tablets, smartphones, and
netbooks are disposable devices: you expect them to last only about a
third, or less, that of a desktop.

It's because of Bill's three concerns and my five that I never
understand why someone chooses to use a laptop at home instead of a
desktop. But as I said in another message a few minutes ago, more and
more people are doing it, and if I'm not in the minority yet, I soon
will be. I wouldn't be surprised if, within a few years, only laptops
are sold and not desktops.


When my desktop died several times (PSU, video card, HDD), I used the
laptop as a temporary PC but with a real keyboard, mouse, and monitor
attached. It was still far less that I was used to but it worked in a
pinch until I got the parts to fix the desktop. Obviously I'm not going
to disconnect all the cables to my desktop and tote it around on a
vacation, so there are scenarios where portability is needed (assuming
you really need a computer while on vacation - bringing one on a hiking
or camping trip just degrades the experience).

When travelling, a Chromebook is more than sufficient.


For me, as I just said in another message, my smart phone is
sufficient. And it's smaller and lighter than your Chromebook.


Yes, if you can tolerate single-finger tapping on a screen keyboard or
trying to emulate a mouse with your finger while having to view and even
smaller screen. I got a smartphone with a large screen (LG V20) but
that also means having to tote around a larger smartphone. Yet a
Chromebook sitting on a table at the resort room is much easier and
quicker to use and easier on the eyes than using a smartphone. The
Chromebook goes on vacation with me but it really doesn't do much
travelling at the endpoints of my trips. The Chromebook sits in the
resort room while I tote along my smartphone.

I'm sure there are folks that cannot afford both a Chromebook, laptop,
or netbook to use on their vacation (and yet they can still afford to
vacation), so a smartphone is probably sufficient. However, these same
folks will be buying cheap and slow smartphones with little memory and
tiny screens. My car came with a scissor jack and nut wrench (which I
replaced with an x-wrench to help spin on/off the lug nuts). That's
okay for rare-time use when away from home. In my garage, I use
jackstands, ramps, and a hydraulic jack - but I'm not toting all that
when I drive the car away from home.

Not to mention that it's very difficult to travel with a monitor,
keyboard, and mouse.


True for the monitor but a 15.6" screen is still pretty good when
vacationing and a hell of a lot better than the screen in any
smartphone. You can upgrade a Chromebook but almost nill for a tablet.
I still tote along a USB-Bluetooth transceiver for a mouse and a small
keyboard (but bigger than in the Chromebook, netbook, or laptop).

Tablet usability sits between a netbook or Chromebook and a smartphone.
Since I have both a large smartphone, netbook, and a Chromebook, I just
can't see wasting money on a tablet for a niche that I don't need.

There are tablets you can use as a phone. Since they have wifi, you
could use them for VOIP calls anywhere you can find a hotspot. Some
include cellular radios but by then I might as well as get a Chromebook
with 3G/4G and have a larger screen, better keyboard, and easier to
repair and upgrade.

Of course, all the points about serviceability and upgradability are
moot for the majority of users. Those are not the vast majority of
consumers. They don't visit here. They buy and later buy again to get
something better. They don't upgrade and few do repairs.
 




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