win10 software keeps XP from starting.

John Dulak wrote:
On 8/29/2018 10:45 AM, micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 26 Aug 2018 20:16:16
-0400, wrote:

I have two laptops, win7 and winXP.

I installed some software desigend for win10 in win7 and I coudln't find
drivers,

so I installed it in winXP and all went well, maybe a little slowly at
the end, but the processor is probably a little slower, until it asked
if I wanted to restart.

Should I have known better than to have done this? Should it have
warned me that it doesn't work in XP?

Now it doesn't get past the dark, blank screen after the Flash screen.

Pressing F8 gave me choices but none, including boot logging, debugging
mode, last known good config, and safte mode, get any farther.

I'm sure there was a way to start one line at a time, saying Y or N to
each one. Isn't that likely to get me past the blank screen so I can
uninstall the software? But I don't remember how.

Although I didn't yet remember how I used to go line by line, at least I
figured out what the files are, I think, that specify those lines.

System.ini and win.ini.

Are there other files that load software during startup? Or is this
left over from win98 and I'm barking up the wrong tree?

I put Hiren's on a flashdrive so it appears as a CD and I can go in and
run a version of XP (and while I was there I made copies of almost all
of the data files I might want, in case I can't fix XP**)

win.ini makes reference to only one file, mapi32.dll
sytem.ini makes reference to two, mmdrv.dll
timer.drv

I thought there would be lots of files listed in these two files, but
there are only 3.

Where are all the startup files listed? NTBTLOG.TXT has 2000 lines.
Where is the file that lists all the fielsprograms to be loaded?

So far, it can't find msconfig.




BACKING UP DATA USING HIRENS:
**I only used this computer a tiny bit at home and on an 80 day trip I
took 18 months ago.

So I looked through all the data files and the new stuff was only in the

Text subdirectory, and I just copied the whole thing
Download directory, the whole thing. Took 31 minutes.
Email outbox. I already have all the incoming mail because I didn't
delete it from the server, and I have a copy of outgoing mail that I
sent to myself, but it will a little bit easier to merge with my
home-computer outbox now.
I just need a list of the software I've got installed. Halfway done
with that.

I copied all this to the flashdrive that is holding Hirens.

Hirens has its own file manager, but I was able to use my favorite file
manager that was already on XP. I can't start a second copy, I think,
without some extra effort.


Micky:

Some things are started from registry entries.

the seven run keys in the registry that are used to start
programs:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunOnce

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunServices

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunServicesOnce


HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunOnce\Setup

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Run

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\RunOnce

You can use REGEDIT to remove un wanted registery entries.

CAUTION Mucking about with the registery is inherently
dangerous!! If you don't know what you are doing you can "FUBAR" a
system to the point of needing to reinstall Windows.

John


Does Sysinternals "Autoruns" see those ?

Paul

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:17:17
-0400, John Dulak wrote:


Micky:

Some things are started from registry entries.

Thanks for this list. Within a few days I'll have time to look at all
of these keys.

the seven run keys in the registry that are used to start
programs:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunOnce

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunServices

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunServicesOnce

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunOnce\Setup

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Run

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\RunOnce

You can use REGEDIT to remove un wanted registery entries.

CAUTION Mucking about with the registery is inherently dangerous!! If you
don't know what you are doing you can "FUBAR" a system to the point of needing
to reinstall Windows.

Yes, I know, and this case is one more reason I don't like relegating
things to the registry. If they were in system.ini, I could easily
edit that file, using hirens, another PE, or even DOS, and remove
whatever was, it seemed, stopping XP from booting. It's hard enough to
edit the registrty -- much of it is not obvious, or even
incomprehensible without study, and it's harder to back up -- but it's
even harder when one is running a different version of windows, or DOS.

I have the vague feeling the registry was developed to stop people from
using software more times than they paid for, which is reasonable, but
the other consequences are a high price to pay .

John

On 8/29/2018 8:01 PM, Paul wrote:
John Dulak wrote:
On 8/29/2018 10:45 AM, micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Sun, 26 Aug 2018 20:16:16
-0400, wrote:

I have two laptops, win7 and winXP.

I installed some software desigend for win10 in win7 and I coudln't find
drivers,

so I installed it in winXP and all went well, maybe a little slowly at
the end, but the processor is probably a little slower, until it asked
if I wanted to restart.

Should I have known better than to have done this? Should it have
warned me that it doesn't work in XP?

Now it doesn't get past the dark, blank screen after the Flash screen.

Pressing F8 gave me choices but none, including boot logging, debugging
mode, last known good config, and safte mode, get any farther.

I'm sure there was a way to start one line at a time, saying Y or N to
each one. Isn't that likely to get me past the blank screen so I can
uninstall the software? But I don't remember how.

Although I didn't yet remember how I used to go line by line, at least I
figured out what the files are, I think, that specify those lines.

System.ini and win.ini.

Are there other files that load software during startup? Or is this
left over from win98 and I'm barking up the wrong tree?

I put Hiren's on a flashdrive so it appears as a CD and I can go in and
run a version of XP (and while I was there I made copies of almost all
of the data files I might want, in case I can't fix XP**)

win.ini makes reference to only one file, mapi32.dll
sytem.ini makes reference to two, mmdrv.dll
timer.drv

I thought there would be lots of files listed in these two files, but
there are only 3.

Where are all the startup files listed? NTBTLOG.TXT has 2000 lines.
Where is the file that lists all the fielsprograms to be loaded?

So far, it can't find msconfig.




BACKING UP DATA USING HIRENS:
**I only used this computer a tiny bit at home and on an 80 day trip I
took 18 months ago.

So I looked through all the data files and the new stuff was only in the

Text subdirectory, and I just copied the whole thing
Download directory, the whole thing. Took 31 minutes.
Email outbox. I already have all the incoming mail because I didn't
delete it from the server, and I have a copy of outgoing mail that I
sent to myself, but it will a little bit easier to merge with my
home-computer outbox now.
I just need a list of the software I've got installed. Halfway done
with that.

I copied all this to the flashdrive that is holding Hirens.

Hirens has its own file manager, but I was able to use my favorite file
manager that was already on XP. I can't start a second copy, I think,
without some extra effort.


Micky:

Some things are started from registry entries.

the seven run keys in the registry that are used to start
programs:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunOnce

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunServices

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunServicesOnce

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\RunOnce\Setup

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Run

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\RunOnce

You can use REGEDIT to remove un wanted registery entries.

CAUTION Mucking about with the registery is inherently dangerous!! If
you don't know what you are doing you can "FUBAR" a system to the point of
needing to reinstall Windows.

John


Does Sysinternals "Autoruns" see those ?

Paul

Paul:

Not sure about Autoruns but they are probably listed in one of the many tabs. I
use an old version (1.5.2.25) of "Startup Manager" -

http://startupmanager.org/

It is much simpler than newer versions. It will let you disable an item without
deleting it as well as deleting or editing it.

John

--

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 07:37:48 -0400, John Dulak
wrote:

Not sure about Autoruns but they are probably listed in one of the many tabs. I
use an old version (1.5.2.25) of "Startup Manager" -

http://startupmanager.org/

It is much simpler than newer versions. It will let you disable an item without
deleting it as well as deleting or editing it.

I use CodeStuff Starter. The homepage is still up, but has not
been maintained for so long it's probably safer to download from one
of these sites:

https://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/.../Starter.shtml
https://www.snapfiles.com/get/starter.html
www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/starter.html

You can edit services too. Also reversible.
It's free. And there's a portable version.
[]'s

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

Win 10 added to wrap up.

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 31 Aug 2018 16:00:56
-0500, Jerome Tews wrote:

On Sun, 26 Aug 2018 20:16:16 -0400, micky
wrote:

I have two laptops, win7 and winXP.

I installed some software desigend for win10 in win7 and I coudln't find
drivers,

so I installed it in winXP and all went well, maybe a little slowly at
the end, but the processor is probably a little slower, until it asked
if I wanted to restart.

Should I have known better than to have done this? Should it have
warned me that it doesn't work in XP?

Now it doesn't get past the dark, blank screen after the Flash screen.

Pressing F8 gave me choices but none, including boot logging, debugging
mode, last known good config, and safte mode, get any farther.

I'm sure there was a way to start one line at a time, saying Y or N to
each one. Isn't that likely to get me past the blank screen so I can
uninstall the software? But I don't remember how.

TIA

That'll teach you to mess around with ANYTHING related to Windows 10.
Windows 10 is designed for people from another galaxie. It should never
be used on planet Earth.

You have a point.

But it turns out, starting yesterday, that it does work, sort of.

When I looked in the .inf files, they all mentioned XP and win10, except
for the driver .inf files (if any) which only had comments about XP.

And installatin finally worked. I couldn't put in the code, and
installing the drivers woudln't finish, apparently because of a step
that was left out of some versions of the instructions, and soft
pedalled in another version. And that was to take mainmenu.exe, go to
the .bin file in which the main program, Techstream.exe was located
after it was installed, and replace mainmenu.exe with the one that came
separately on the CD and not the one embedded in the techstream
installation file. Apparently mainmenu has a code in it that has to
match the authorization code that is included separately, and something
about drivers too.

After that, it connected to the car, but it only displays 6 systems and
not the 14 or 24 that various screen shots show. And none of the systems
interest me: airbags, ABS brakes, immobilizer (fancy ignition key),
cruise control, one I can't remember, AB?/VSC/TRAC (which might have
something to do with a problem I have and which shows an engine error
C1201, and Engine, which I'm afraid to mess with and have no particular
complaints.

Even so, I enjoyed the project and it was worth the time and money, and
I learned a little.


A step I didn't do was to use the firmware installation/modification
program, which I guess modifies the firmware in the cable (I hope it's
not the firmware in the car). I'll look first but I guess the firmware
it uses is also in the .bin files created when I installed techstream.

And maybe after I do that I'll be able to get to the body things I want,
a) unlock both doors at once, b) turn off the headlights in 2 seconds,
not 30, and c) stop that noise when engine is off, the key is in the
ignition, and the door is open. I don't need the alarm.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 31 Aug 2018 22:12:58 -0400, micky
wrote:



A step I didn't do was to use the firmware installation/modification
program, which I guess modifies the firmware in the cable (I hope it's
not the firmware in the car). I'll look first but I guess the firmware
it uses is also in the .bin files created when I installed techstream.

The first button yielded the message, Firmware server nor available,
even though I was connected to the net.

The second buttion, Use a file, gave a Choose-file box and indicated the
file extension should be .ftu (iirc) and no such file existed on my
computer.

I have version 1.4.1 of the firmware and searching the web found a
version 2.0.4 available for download, but they had been kicked of their
file-hosting site for multiple violations of the TOS.

Two indications were found that the firmware couldn't be updated anyhow
and trying would kill the cable.

Even though I never found such things online before, I came across
cables with firmware v2.0.4 plus techstream software for sale, but
instead of $20 like I paid, it was $60.

Posting to the ToyotaNation asking if later firmware would access more
systems. 67 people have read my post so far, but no one has answered.

Finally, I asked myself what friends own Toyotas and I went to one
today. Her 2002 Toyota showed 5 systems, mostly the same as my 2005
car, which shows 6 systems. but like mine not Body,

I have another friend with a fairly old Toyota, but I'm pretty sure now
that the cable is not the problem and that my 2005 car was not designed
to allow this. Version 2.0.4 of the firmware probably didn't exist
until a couple years ago, so it couldn't have been required for my car.

Oh well.

And maybe after I do that I'll be able to get to the body things I want,
a) unlock both doors at once, b) turn off the headlights in 2 seconds,
not 30, and c) stop that noise when engine is off, the key is in the
ignition, and the door is open. I don't need the alarm.

I will call the dealer and ask if there is a way to change these things,
and if he has a list of things I can change at the same time.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

" " " " "

micky wrote:

I will call the dealer and ask if there is a way to change these things,
and if he has a list of things I can change at the same time.

I wonder what their policy is on that.

You would think with the nifty feature set
available, there would be some demand for "tuning".
The headlight one sounds useful.

Paul

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 3 Sep 2018 08:48:54
-0400, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-09-02 22:58, micky wrote:
[...]
I will call the dealer and ask if there is a way to change these things,
and if he has a list of things I can change at the same time.


Cars become obsolete, too. :-) I suspect the best "change" would be to
buy a newer car.

Large used convertibles are hard to find. Even this one isn't large
enough.

I figure that if the cost of repairs(s) buys more than a couple or three
months of additional transportation, it's worth spending the money.
Assuming the car is in decent shape otherwise.

I've kept all my cars 7 years except one that was 6 and another 9 iirc.

This is my 8th convertible.

Good luck,

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 03 Sep 2018 00:38:05
-0400, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:

I will call the dealer and ask if there is a way to change these things,
and if he has a list of things I can change at the same time.

I wonder what their policy is on that.

You would think with the nifty feature set
available, there would be some demand for "tuning".

That's a good point. You'd think they'd be pushing it. No cost for
parts. The dealer has a system where you take your car inside, but they
drive it elswhere in the building, where you can't go, so you have no
idea what they're doing, and you have no idea if it takes 5 minutes or
an hour.

This plugs into the OBDII port just beyond the bottom edge of the dash.
I usually plug in the power too, but since they know it will take only
10 minutes, they don't have to do that. I turn off the engine first
but I don't know if you really have to do that.

Once you know the menus for these changes, you could make several
changes in 5 minute and charge $65.

Some people post that they have gotten the changes made for free, but
these are people who have had other things done for 100's of dollars.

I checked and service dept is closed today for Labor Day. I hope they
have a list.

Apparently you can't stop the seatbelt buzzer, though it's not as bad in
2005 as it was in 2000.

The headlight one sounds useful.

Yes, I live where there are street lights and I don't need the
headlights to stay on until I get inside. Plus I've had battery
problems all my life, since I was 3 years old, and I don't like wasting
battery for 30 seconds.

Do you agree with me that there's no point to upgrading the cable
firmware?

Paul

micky wrote:


Do you agree with me that there's no point to upgrading the cable
firmware?

That would depend on whether the adapter chip for the CAN
bus, carries out "entire procedures" or not.

The interface to the chip is a serial port (that tells
you right away, it's not an especially good candidate
for time sensitive operations). That means a "command" is
sent to the dongle chip, the chip firmware processes
the command, and carries out multiple bus operations in
response.

The only way you'd know the value of the firmware,
is if it had Release Notes, and it said specifically
"Not for version XXX of chip". It's possible a later
chip has support for more things than an earlier chip.

But since this product line simply isn't documented
in a useful way (all we can find is adverts for its
sale, and zero documentation), it's really up to the
firmware updater thingy to decide whether the
update is "safe".

Some motherboards, when offered a BIOS update, check
the release number to see if its for the motherboard
or not, and reject it if the thing mismatches. Sometimes
the mismatch is by accident (they change tool flow, and
old labeling scheme doesn't match new labeling scheme).
But at least there are some firmware upgrade methods,
that do that sort of check for you.

And any update method worth its salt, leaves a "boot block"
that "answers the phone" even when the main code is bad.
You don't flash the boot block. It stays the same forever
(that's the intent). Then, if you flash a main block of code
which is inappropriate, you simply revert to the old version
that worked. As long as the dongle chip "answers the phone",
then you remain in control.

On the motherboards I've done here, there would be one
command to "archive" the current installation. Then,
if there was a functional failure while you were installing
the new one, then, without turning off the power, you'd
attempt to re-install the archive. I think I actually had
to do that once, because things weren't going well. The
Asus BIOS download page, used to be filled with red text
to "do this, don't do that", with regard to versions and
failures that could happen. Lots of jolly good fun.

One reason I had room for an archive, is the C: drive was
FAT32, the MSDOS floppy I was using handled FAT32,
and I could put the archive file on C: . Some people
get in trouble, because they try to do those with
a single floppy, and then they "don't bother" to archive
the original image (there's no storage space for it).

Paul

On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 08:48:54 -0400, Wolf K wrote:


Cars become obsolete, too. :-) I suspect the best "change" would be to
buy a newer car.


There is no such thing as an "obsolete car". Any car that can be driven
from point A to point B accomplishes what a car is intended to do. Thats
what cars were made to do.

I know a guy who owns a Model-T Ford. I think he said it was made in
1919, so next year it'll be 100 years old. It runs well and can be
driven at any time. Yea, he restored it. But as he told me, it's easier
to fix those old cars than the new ones. He said if you cant buy the
parts for them, any one with metal working machinery can reproduce the
parts. Yet he said that parts for that Model-T are easier to buy than
parts for cars made 20 years ago.

I figure that if the cost of repairs(s) buys more than a couple or three
months of additional transportation, it's worth spending the money.
Assuming the car is in decent shape otherwise.

That depends on how much it costs. I have a 1995 Chevy Pickup. It runs
well and the body is not too bad. I do most of my own repairs, so the
cost is not too bad for a brake job or many other smaller repairs. But
if I needed a new engine, I'd probably get another truck. A rebuilt
engine is over $1000, and I am not setup to change engines in my back
yard, so I'd have to pay many hundreds of dollars to have soemone else
do the work. Not to mention that the frames on those trucks eventually
rust out, no matter how much you do to prevent rust. So, it's not
practical to stick that much money in an old truck like that.


Good luck,

On 9/4/2018 1:40 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 08:48:54 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:


Cars become obsolete, too. :-) I suspect the best "change" would be
to buy a newer car.


There is no such thing as an "obsolete car". Any car that can be
driven from point A to point B accomplishes what a car is intended to
do. Thats what cars were made to do.

Of course there are obsolete cars. Being driven from point A to point B
isn't part of the definition:

ob·so·lete

1.
no longer produced or used; out of date.
"the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"
synonyms: outdated, out of date, outmoded, old-fashioned, démodé,
passé, out of fashion;

123456789,

Of course there are obsolete cars. Being driven from point A to point B
isn't part of the definition:

ob·so·lete

no longer produced or used; out of date.

You shot yourself in the foot I'm afraid. :-)

If I may take the "no longer produced or used" as meaning that if "its still
produced OR its still used" its not obsolete, and "being driven from point A
to point B" constitutes to being used, than a car being driven is, by your
quoted definition, not obsolete.

As for the synonyms ? They all refer to something that determined by
consensus. Even the first two, as even if I take those to mean "best used
before" its something thats applicable to perishables, not cars.


You might be thinking of another use of "obsolete", being used by either
salespeople or the obnoxious neighbour/coworker/whomever who whants to show
off its new (and most always costly) shiny, while declaring anything not as
new/costly being of lesser/no value.

FYI: *anyone* trying to use "obsolete" as/in an argument gets automatically
red-flagged by me. They show that they cannot come up with a(n underbuild)
reasoning to why they need (a newer version of) something, and are using
"obsolete" as a magical "it explains everything" incantation. It doesn't.

My five cents.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

R.Wieser wrote:
123456789,

Of course there are obsolete cars. Being driven from point A to point B
isn't part of the definition:

ob?so?lete

no longer produced or used; out of date.

You shot yourself in the foot I'm afraid. :-)

If I may take the "no longer produced or used" as meaning that if "its still
produced OR its still used" its not obsolete, and "being driven from point A
to point B" constitutes to being used, than a car being driven is, by your
quoted definition, not obsolete.

As for the synonyms ? They all refer to something that determined by
consensus. Even the first two, as even if I take those to mean "best used
before" its something thats applicable to perishables, not cars.

You might be thinking of another use of "obsolete", being used by either
salespeople or the obnoxious neighbour/coworker/whomever who whants to show
off its new (and most always costly) shiny, while declaring anything not as
new/costly being of lesser/no value.

FYI: *anyone* trying to use "obsolete" as/in an argument gets automatically
red-flagged by me. They show that they cannot come up with a(n underbuild)
reasoning to why they need (a newer version of) something, and are using
"obsolete" as a magical "it explains everything" incantation. It doesn't.

My five cents.

+very_large_number, so I'll throw in a whole Euro!

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 3 Sep 2018 08:48:54
-0400, Wolf K wrote:

On 2018-09-02 22:58, micky wrote:
[...]
I will call the dealer and ask if there is a way to change these things,
and if he has a list of things I can change at the same time.


Cars become obsolete, too. :-) I suspect the best "change" would be to
buy a newer car.

I gave an excessively polite answer the first time.

What makes you think if I bought a newer car these things would be set
the way I want them? And that I wouldn't have to go to just as much
trouble, after paying for the car, to get them set?

The answer is that these things would be set just as they are now,
because the maker hasn't changed its view as to what most people want or
should want. Check with someone with a newer toyota, or any make, and
you'll see all 3 items are set just the way mine are.

It sort of annoys me when other people try to spend my money. If you
want to buy a new car buy it, but don't tell other people to spend their
money, unless they've asked which is the better choice, and I certainly
never asked, never even suggested I would even consider doing that.

I figure that if the cost of repairs(s) buys more than a couple or three
months of additional transportation, it's worth spending the money.
Assuming the car is in decent shape otherwise.

Good luck,

"Good luck" helps, but maybe too much, because it tended to make me
excessively polite.