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#46
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
Dave C. wrote:
At least it fits on a single CD. Almost all the latest Linux distros are 3 700MB ISO files So would Windows if it included all the additional tools, utilities compilers etc that the Linux distros include. Not to mention gobs of free software. Imagine if Microsoft released Windows with all the Office Applications. It would fit nicely on one DVD, hough. -Dave Perhaps some day Linux will be easy enough for the typical user to operate. |
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#47
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
Perhaps some day Linux will be easy enough for the typical user to
operate. It's that way now. The last time I installed a linux distro, the installation when smoother, faster and easier than any windows installation. That was a couple of distros ago, so the latest distros are probably pretty damned impressive from the viewpoint of a "typical user". Oh, and clicking a mouse in linux is just as easy as clicking a mouse in windows. The problem with linux is MICROSOFT. If it wasn't for the Microsoft stranglehold on office applications, linux could easily replace Windows. Someone will now scream that there are open source applications (free!!!) that will open and save in Microsoft Office data file formats. No, not really. Not even Microsoft Office does that. That is, when you have work to do, you not only need to be running MICROSOFT OFFICE, but you need to be running the right version of it, also. When you e-mail a document halfway around the world, you can't WONDER what it will look like when it's opened up, if it can be opened up at all. If you aren't running Microsoft Office, and a very specific version of Microsoft Office at that, you have no way of knowing what that document will look like before you hit the "send" button. THAT is the only reason linux will not catch on in a big way. That, and most games won't run on linux. If enough businesses start using open source software instead of Microsoft Office . . . and some game developers start porting to linux . . . then Microsoft is in huge trouble. But as long as Microsoft Office is so dominant, Microsoft has no reason to worry about linux. I almost forgot to add . . . another thing holding linux back is that there are so many different distros, and applications packaged differently for each distro. That's another kink that needs to be worked out before linux will catch on in a big way. For example, if you want open office suite for linux fedora, you can probably find a package that will install with a couple of mouse clicks. But try to install that on suse linux and it won't work. There needs to be a standard way of installing apps. in linux so that one package will install on all distros without any "tweaking". Yeah, you can recompile a kernel for just about anything, but the typical user isn't even gonna think about it. -Dave |
#48
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
Dave C. wrote:
Perhaps some day Linux will be easy enough for the typical user to operate. It's that way now. Not hardly. The last time I installed a linux distro, the installation when smoother, faster and easier than any windows installation. Beside it not being as 'simple' as you suggest, 'installing' wasn't what I meant by easy enough for the typical user to operate. That was a couple of distros ago, so the latest distros are probably pretty damned impressive from the viewpoint of a "typical user". Oh, and clicking a mouse in linux is just as easy as clicking a mouse in windows. That's like saying moving your feet is just as easy going uphill as it is on flat ground. It isn't the 'clicking' of the mouse button that matters. But before you even get to that point one has to figure out which GUI you're using. And then there's the ever fun "I just installed insert whatever. I wonder where the hell it went." Doesn't always happen but it happens often enough. The problem with linux is MICROSOFT. If it wasn't for the Microsoft stranglehold on office applications, linux could easily replace Windows. Someone will now scream that there are open source applications (free!!!) that will open and save in Microsoft Office data file formats. No, not really. Not even Microsoft Office does that. That is, when you have work to do, you not only need to be running MICROSOFT OFFICE, but you need to be running the right version of it, also. When you e-mail a document halfway around the world, you can't WONDER what it will look like when it's opened up, if it can be opened up at all. If you aren't running Microsoft Office, and a very specific version of Microsoft Office at that, you have no way of knowing what that document will look like before you hit the "send" button. You forget to install the version filters? THAT is the only reason linux will not catch on in a big way. That, and most games won't run on linux. If enough businesses start using open source software instead of Microsoft Office . . . and some game developers start porting to linux . . . then Microsoft is in huge trouble. But as long as Microsoft Office is so dominant, Microsoft has no reason to worry about linux. I almost forgot to add . . . another thing holding linux back is that there are so many different distros, and applications packaged differently for each distro. That's another kink that needs to be worked out before linux will catch on in a big way. For example, if you want open office suite for linux fedora, you can probably find a package that will install with a couple of mouse clicks. But try to install that on suse linux and it won't work. There needs to be a standard way of installing apps. in linux so that one package will install on all distros without any "tweaking". Yeah, you can recompile a kernel for just about anything, but the typical user isn't even gonna think about it. Now you're catching on. Now, Debian has probably one of the easiest installers around with the least pain for a typical user but there's also some other exciting development going on in that area too. -Dave |
#49
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
The last time I installed a linux distro, the
installation when smoother, faster and easier than any windows installation. Beside it not being as 'simple' as you suggest, 'installing' wasn't what I meant by easy enough for the typical user to operate. That was a couple of distros ago, so the latest distros are probably pretty damned impressive from the viewpoint of a "typical user". Oh, and clicking a mouse in linux is just as easy as clicking a mouse in windows. That's like saying moving your feet is just as easy going uphill as it is on flat ground. It isn't the 'clicking' of the mouse button that matters. But before you even get to that point one has to figure out which GUI you're using. And then there's the ever fun "I just installed insert whatever. I wonder where the hell it went." Doesn't always happen but it happens often enough. Yes, I know there are ways to tweak the open source apps. to match a particular version of Office. But without a working PC *RUNNING* Microsoft Office, you have no way of knowing if the software is working correctly until it's too late. If you need to run Microsoft Office anyway, what's the point of trying to coax linux to emulate it? Besides which, the typical computer user wouldn't bother to even try, and therein lies the real problem. But linux really IS as easy as I suggest. Anybody comfortable with Windows XP should find any recent linux distro a real breeze to both install and operate. Note that's if their particular distro comes with all the software they want pre-packaged. (I know there's still some software installation headaches that need to be addressed). OH, and it doesn't matter what GUI you want to use with linux. Last I checked, there were only two major choices of GUI for linux (and some others that the real geeks play around with). Of the two major ones, they both operate identically, and they run each other's software seamlessly. From memory, I believe the last major distribution I installed actually installed BOTH GUI's by default, and then asked you to choose one to use at login. I could bounce back and forth between the two if I wanted, but the one I used (gnome) worked fine, so I stuck with that. And yes, I was running some KDE apps. on that, no problems at all. Before someone gets the wrong impression, I'm not a linux fanatic. I LIKE linux, but I run Windows XP. Even if I wasn't "required" to run Windows for telecommuting, I'd still run Windows XP. Eventually I'll be running linux again. It might not happen until I retire, but it'll happen. Linux is just too good to ignore indefinitely. And yes, I was dual booting linux and windows for a while. I finally figured out that was a waste of time, as I HAD to run windows but didn't have to run linux. Bouncing back and forth constantly drove me nuts and Windows XP really isn't too evil, so I'm running that exclusively now. -Dave |
#50
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote:
But that is what you were saying "for the OS alone" Your entire sentence is listed below to refresh your memory on what you wrote. "Windows XP would fill several CDs if you included SP1 all the patches, and SP2, but that wouldn't include hundreds of applications, that would just be for the OS alone." The above statement is obviously wrong. How ya figure? The patches etc. ARE for the OS alone. |
#51
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
"Dave C." wrote:
"JAD" wrote in message ... Why would it need those? compilers for what....its a work in progress granted, but there is no need for the end user to have to use compilers. It come with the utilities it needs..xinux needs all those? The last time I installed a recent linux distro, it did come on 3 CDs, but I only needed the first one to fully install the OS and gobs of free software. The other 2 CDs were the developer stuff. -Dave True. |
#52
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
"Dave C." wrote:
OK, I just reviewed the top ten reasons to upgrade to SP2. Of the top ten reasons, EIGHT of those reasons can be done better by other software, most (all?) of it freeware. You don't need SP2. The only improvement I see there in the TOP TEN reasons is the improved wireless support. But my wireless connections are working great now. Basically, it looks like ~200MB of nothing. -Dave Well said. |
#53
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
David Maynard wrote:
ToolPackinMama wrote: Good lord, yes. Linux comes with hundreds of programs. Windows XP would fill several CDs if you included SP1 all the patches, and SP2, No, a slipstreamed SP2 Windows XP CD, which includes all updates, is just one plain ole' CD. Less than full at that. Does that include the full OS? Even so, it wouldn't equal a Linux CD with hundreds of applications, including a full office suite, and GIMP. Especially not at the same price. Linux ~with~ all the extras is a fraction of the cost of Windows XP alone, without extras. |
#54
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
David Maynard wrote:
Perhaps some day Linux will be easy enough for the typical user to operate. It's easy enough for the typical user who only wants to browse the web, enjoy porn/music and send/recieve email, right now. Those who use an OS to easily create/view image/text documents of various flavors also have everything they need, right now. It's the game-players that have problems (IMHO). |
#55
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
"Dave C." wrote:
Perhaps some day Linux will be easy enough for the typical user to operate. It's that way now. For web-browsing and email, yes, it's there now. FWIW, most newbie home users only use their computers and internet for web-browsing and email (in my experience). They _can_ do this with Linux as easily as with Windows. |
#56
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
"Dave C." wrote:
Perhaps some day Linux will be easy enough for the typical user to operate. It's that way now. The last time I installed a linux distro, the installation when smoother, faster and easier than any windows installation. I agree. If you aren't running Microsoft Office, and a very specific version of Microsoft Office at that, you have no way of knowing what that document will look like before you hit the "send" button. Well, try saving it as "text only". There needs to be a standard way of installing apps. That, IMHO, is the one thing holding Linux back. |
#57
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
"Dave C." wrote:
But linux really IS as easy as I suggest. Anybody comfortable with Windows XP should find any recent linux distro a real breeze to both install and operate. I agree. Linux is just too good to ignore indefinitely. I agree. |
#58
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
Diogenes wrote:
You're a typical linux****. What nonsense. |
#59
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
Diogenes wrote:
No, linux doesn't have support for modern peripherals and the end-users are supposed to write their own drivers and relink the kernel. That's pure nonsense. |
#60
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Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote:
But that is what you were saying "for the OS alone" Yes, for the OS alone... The Linux CD's aren't for the OS alone. One CD is enough to hold the Linux OS alone. The Linux CDs include hundreds (thousands?) of utilities and applications, including a full office suite (Open Office) and a Photoshop-type image manipulation program (GIMP). Therefore, several Linux CDs is not the same as one XP CD, especially not at that price. A Linux distro of several CDs worth of OS and apps and add-ons costs a tiny fraction of what it costs for the XP OS alone. That's a fact. |
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