SP2 Kills PC & Windows XP Copyright

Hi, MJ.

Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
the difference between activation and registration?

installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.

Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
same" computer. For details, see:
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx

I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice
computer, which does, indeed, sound like a "homebuilt beauty". WinXP SP2
runs just fine on my new EPoX 8KDA3+/AMD Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM (with SCSI
and 2 IDE drives, DVD-ROM and DVD burner; SATA and RAID are built in, but I
don't use them yet; etc.). Reactivation (painlessly via Internet) was
required when I upgraded the mobo/CPU in July, but NOT when I installed SP2
in August.

And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
one hour.

All this is not to deny that you really did and still do have problems or
that they are serious. Some installers have reported serious problems.
Microsoft would like to hear specific details about those cases so that the
problems can be solved, either by pointing you to already-known solutions or
by working with you to identify and solve previously-unknown problems. Have
you been to the Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Support Center? It's at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default...r=windowsxpsp2

If you will detail your specific problems, chances are someone here can help
you figure out how to deal with them.

Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

"MJ" wrote in message
...
I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

"Herb Fritatta" wrote in message =
...
=20
-----Original Message-----

"Herb Fritatta" =20
wrote in message news:159201c499c0$a8127910
...

snipped already, a too long thread!
=20
This is almost too stupid for words. What are is a=20
hardware "MF"? I know what "mf" stands for in my=20
neighborhood, but I think maybe you meant "mfg."

LMAO! MF is (my) short response for manufacturer (mfg is=20
short for manufacturing), as you said you thought (is that=20
possible for you?), but you felt the need to make yourself=20
sound stupid, and think it was something else! While=20
you're on the "This is too stupid" thing, what kind=20
of "stupid English" questions is, "What are is a=20
hardware "MF"?"
=20
Actually, "mfg." is an acceptable abbreviation for=20
"manufacturer" although it makes no sense. Try and find
me a source for "MF" as you used it.
=20

No, "mfg" is not an acceptable form, technically "mfr" is the right =
usage in this instance; your attempts at being a pedant, is beginning to =
show your intelligence. I stated (already), that MF is just my usage for =
this case (to be quick), you can either ignore it, or continue to =
understand it as such. But as long as you continue to use the wrong =
abbreviation as being "correct", then I'll continue to ignore your =
technical nitpicking of terms and abbreviations?=20

As far as your claim that I didn't follow through, I did according to =
the OP, and I am not going through the whole thing again, just to =
satisfy your ego. You read what she said, it was very clear, that she =
gave no detail of what she did (as for anything to prepare) before SP2, =
other than just download and install SP2 on first notice of it being =
needed.

Reading your other posts concerning these issues, it is obvious that you =
will not be satisfied with any one person's explanation, or thoughts =
unless it suits your emotional state du jour. You remind me of some =
creationist science deniers. No matter what real evidence is given to =
them, they explain it away as lies, and the evidence is not acceptable, =
until it matches their beliefs!

Do you really expect him to answer you after your derogatory remarks?

SP2 has issues, (your flawless installation not withstanding). Operators
have issues. For both reasons, we wind up here. Let's cut MJ a little
slack. You provided good info, but he may too scared off to make use of it.
Thanks

"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, MJ.

Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
the difference between activation and registration?

installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.

Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
same" computer. For details, see:
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx

I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice
computer, which does, indeed, sound like a "homebuilt beauty". WinXP SP2
runs just fine on my new EPoX 8KDA3+/AMD Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM (with SCSI
and 2 IDE drives, DVD-ROM and DVD burner; SATA and RAID are built in, but I
don't use them yet; etc.). Reactivation (painlessly via Internet) was
required when I upgraded the mobo/CPU in July, but NOT when I installed SP2
in August.

And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
one hour.

All this is not to deny that you really did and still do have problems or
that they are serious. Some installers have reported serious problems.
Microsoft would like to hear specific details about those cases so that the
problems can be solved, either by pointing you to already-known solutions or
by working with you to identify and solve previously-unknown problems. Have
you been to the Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Support Center? It's at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default...r=windowsxpsp2

If you will detail your specific problems, chances are someone here can help
you figure out how to deal with them.

Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

"MJ" wrote in message
...
I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

Why would the bleeding edge hurt any less than the trailing edge?

The software all has to be in a compatible STACK.
Have you every odrered one of each type of pancke?
Not exactly the Bell cruve breakfast, would you think?

Yes, new stuff is just as clunky as old stuff.

SJ
"MpM" wrote in message
...
This is the 2nd time I see this comment from you.... so please understand,
not all machines are created equally. (Dell 3.06 Ghz, 2 ea. LCD, 1Gig Ram,
WD
80gig)

My example is that I can document some specific problems with SP2.
Examples:
The latest NVidia driver. Some advanced window handling features will not
initialize without an error on SP2. They worked perfectly with SP1.
(Quadro
NVS).

The security warnings crop up even though the JavaScript is running
locally,
on a web app that is communicating to a database on the same machine, (no
network access, not even intranet - AND, scripts, even unsigned, are
enabled).

Windows Explorer, (not IE! ... and not just the File Mgr. window... I mean
Explorer that runs the desktop), locks up. I can kill the process, start
a
new session in a cmd window and go right back to work, but....)

Video now causes BSoD (Blue Screen of Death). This is true in several
different apps, (Pinnacle, QuickTime, and Irfanview - Is it the graphics
driver? [again... worked fine on SP1]).

I went through the "get ready for SP2". I ran one week on SP1 with all
updated drivers to ensure no problems. I had zero errors on install.

This machine is (used to be) on 24X7. I schedule a cleanup and then
reboot
every Sunday night. I am now researching drivers, doing a cleanup every
day,
and consider myself lucky if I can get through a days work without having
to
reboot at least once.

I work in I.S. I have advised our service group not to install SP2 until
more research is done on driver compatibility, especially regards graphics
and the functionality of our home-grown Web Apps.
STATEMENT: SP2 is not as robust as SP1. Depending on the driver
combinations, installed software base, etc., you may or may not experience
these problems, but SP2 is not as robust as SP1.

"Rho_1r" wrote:

I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why so many have
these
problems, I dont have one of them.
Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP

"Tom" wrote:


"MJ" wrote in message
...
I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install
the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA
250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In
one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying
to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping
out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give
me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything
XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read
here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS
update/service pack) before installing it.

If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and
should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or
any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or
time does!

For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have =
already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, =
then do the repair.

There was a similar problem with PC owners when they installed Win98SE =
w/IE5.01 on their PC. If they upgraded their version IE, they had a =
problem, when they tried to reinstall OS over itself. The reinstallation =
tried to put an earlier version of IE back onto the PC. Which caused the =
reinstallation not to work properly. The upgraded version had to be =
uninstalled first.

Also before, and after an SP2 installation, make sure that you check for =
hadware/software updates. I had to reinstall Flash Player7 after =
installing SP2.

Also after the SP2 installation, take a few minutes and go through the =
IE/OE Option tabs, and check out the changes there. You may have to =
reset some of the features, to the way you like these programs to work.
--=20

Add MS to your News Reader: news://msnews.microsoft.com
Rich/rerat

(RRR News) message rule
Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:19:49 -0400, "Tom" wrote:


"MJ" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:31:44 -0400, "Tom" wrote:


"MJ" wrote in message ...
I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS update/service pack) before installing it.

If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time does!

The hard drive works fine, as does every other component. I found out
the problem... afterwards. Apparently there is still an ongoing report
about incompatibilities with software that is not yet complete,
including video drivers, etc. I have no idea what caused the problem
but suffice it to say there is NO WAY that SP2 is being installed on
my machine for a very, very, very long time.

There was nothing any "How To" from MS could have helped me on this
one since after the reboot is when these problems sent me into a
spiraling trail of autoreboots, each one earlier than the prior until
I had no choice.

You did have a choice, that was to prepare. Not having a choice means you were forced to have SP2 installed without preparing. Here are a few MS sites regarding preparations:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
http://support.microsoft.com/default...S;windowsxpsp2

Here is a list of programs that MAY NOT function properly using SP2
(Updated 9/9)
http://support.microsoft.com/default...t=windowsxpsp2

There is an alphabetical list of hardware/softweare vendors and their respective websites located at the bottom of this web page (as well as the list of programs in this page), that are list under three different links (one link for example is for hardware/software listed alphabetically A-K, and so on).

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242

A) You ass ume that all the vendors and their products are listed.

B) You also expect the ability to uninstall in some fashion in the
event that the results are not as expected.

C) I didn't expect to lose all my installs of Windows XP reinstalling
it, regardless of whether you think I was or was not prepared, now
having all these wonderful documents after the fact. I didn't even
know of the installs issue and THAT is what is ticking me off even
more than having to reformat my entire system. What is this crap of my
having to call MS every time I need to install Windows? Given Windows'
inability to easily deal with the crap spewed by applications and
add-ons, unlike a Mac, I find True Image imaging a major need to do
every few months to ensure the system is smooth.

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:06:00 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote:

Hi, MJ.

Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
the difference between activation and registration?

installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.

Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
same" computer. For details, see:
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx

Apparently you think you're a real sharp wit. Obnoxious will not get
you far. To begin, do you think I really give a hoot about whether
it's called activation and registration on a technical basis? OK, you
got me and you can brag about it Friday night when you get together
with your friends.

Now before you start calling my words I've strung together a "tirade"
(oops, too late) maybe you should have read a little more closely to
realize that NO HARDWARE WAS CHANGED yet I received the
message that I needed to get a new key to activate Windows XP.
(I hope the terminology is clear.) The bottom line is that I have to
now start making calls and explaining myself like I did at 2am because
WinXP apparently does NOT allow unlimited reinstallations on the same
computer. Perhaps you can tell me, is the experience I had a bug or a
feature of WinXP?

In addition, if all the fine print is so important, why doesn't MS
have this information on the download page in big letters? The only
thing resembling a warning I see is the following:

"Read technical details about SP2, including what's new in SP2, how to
deploy SP2, and how to manage an environment with SP2. "

I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice

Arrogance is a very bad characteristic but I'm too busy to ponder why
you feel the need to let us know how smart you think you are. A little
humility might be good as well as adding something of value.

And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
one hour.

It seems that you don't get out much. After reading posts on the web
boards from professional people it seems that SP2 has been wreaking
quite a bit of havoc since release. Unless you are running a bare
bones system you are likely to have some problems. Heck, even
Microsoft apps are affected by problems in SP2!!!! My mistake was not
really researching all of this in areas OTHER than Microsoft's site.

Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?

If you read carefully and comprehend rather than thinking
pedagogically, you'd appreciate the fact that if Windows XP didn't
have the copyright protection scheme attached to it, I wouldn't have
to go through the hassle that I will now have to deal with every time
I need to reinstall/restore and be subject to questioning as to why
I'm calling. Perhaps I'll find that day where I'll be challenged that
my use isn't perceived as valid... send up your contact info. Perhaps
you can explain to them that if I didn't change any of hardware I
shouldn't be having this problem.

I apologize. You are correct MpM but cannot recall my post. As I'm not
a newbie I got mad rather than scared.

I'm not sure what the problem was but notwithstanding my need to
perhaps do research on sites other than Microsoft's, I'm still at a
loss as to how I'm now needing to get a new very long activation key
at every future install since I never changed the hardware. It's a bit
disconcerting making the call at 2AM or so and then be confronted with
the reality of defending your need to ask for the key...


On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:39:07 -0700, MpM
wrote:

Do you really expect him to answer you after your derogatory remarks?

SP2 has issues, (your flawless installation not withstanding). Operators
have issues. For both reasons, we wind up here. Let's cut MJ a little
slack. You provided good info, but he may too scared off to make use of it.
Thanks

"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, MJ.

Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
the difference between activation and registration?

installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.

Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
same" computer. For details, see:
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx

I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice
computer, which does, indeed, sound like a "homebuilt beauty". WinXP SP2
runs just fine on my new EPoX 8KDA3+/AMD Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM (with SCSI
and 2 IDE drives, DVD-ROM and DVD burner; SATA and RAID are built in, but I
don't use them yet; etc.). Reactivation (painlessly via Internet) was
required when I upgraded the mobo/CPU in July, but NOT when I installed SP2
in August.

And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
one hour.

All this is not to deny that you really did and still do have problems or
that they are serious. Some installers have reported serious problems.
Microsoft would like to hear specific details about those cases so that the
problems can be solved, either by pointing you to already-known solutions or
by working with you to identify and solve previously-unknown problems. Have
you been to the Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Support Center? It's at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default...r=windowsxpsp2

If you will detail your specific problems, chances are someone here can help
you figure out how to deal with them.

Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

"MJ" wrote in message
...
I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

Tom wrote:
"Herb Fritatta" wrote in message ...

-----Original Message-----

"Herb Fritatta"

wrote in message news:159201c499c0$a8127910
...

snipped already, a too long thread!

This is almost too stupid for words. What are is a
hardware "MF"? I know what "mf" stands for in my
neighborhood, but I think maybe you meant "mfg."

LMAO! MF is (my) short response for manufacturer (mfg is

short for manufacturing), as you said you thought (is that
possible for you?), but you felt the need to make yourself
sound stupid, and think it was something else! While
you're on the "This is too stupid" thing, what kind
of "stupid English" questions is, "What are is a
hardware "MF"?"

Actually, "mfg." is an acceptable abbreviation for
"manufacturer" although it makes no sense. Try and find
me a source for "MF" as you used it.



No, "mfg" is not an acceptable form, technically "mfr" is the right usage in this instance; your attempts at being a pedant, is beginning to show your intelligence. I stated (already), that MF is just my usage for this case (to be quick), you can either ignore it, or continue to understand it as such. But as long as you continue to use the wrong abbreviation as being "correct", then I'll continue to ignore your technical nitpicking of terms and abbreviations?

As far as your claim that I didn't follow through, I did according to the OP, and I am not going through the whole thing again, just to satisfy your ego. You read what she said, it was very clear, that she gave no detail of what she did (as for anything to prepare) before SP2, other than just download and install SP2 on first notice of it being needed.

Reading your other posts concerning these issues, it is obvious that you will not be satisfied with any one person's explanation, or thoughts unless it suits your emotional state du jour. You remind me of some creationist science deniers. No matter what real evidence is given to them, they explain it away as lies, and the evidence is not acceptable, until it matches their beliefs!

OK, let's summarize. You misinterpreted the OP and responded based on
unwarranted presumption. You have referred to the OP as "she" for no
apparent reason. You then accused me of being ill-prepared in installing
SP2 without having a shred of evidence upon which to base the
accusation. You have posted an absurd unsupported assertion--that 99.9%
of SP2 trouble is due to "ill prepared" installs. (I understand that
this is an exaggeration for effect, or at least I hope it is.) I think
this all speaks very eloquently for itself.

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:48:01 -0400, "RRR_News" wrote:

For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, then do the repair.

Wish I could. Unfortunately after install my PC kept crashing and I
was unable to uninstall. It soon refused to boot up entirely. I have
no idea what could have caused the problem since nothing was launched
and my drivers seemed to be compatible.

I do appreciate the help though. At this point I am not installing SP2
until I know it is safe for me to do so and all the kinks have been
worked out. Too many apps to reinstall to hope it works. My
understanding is that several apps are not compatible and time for
fixes are not known at this time.

**** Happens.

It's what you do with it that determines the quality of life.

SJ
"MJ" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:19:49 -0400, "Tom" wrote:


"MJ" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:31:44 -0400, "Tom" wrote:


"MJ" wrote in message
m...
I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything
XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read
here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS
update/service pack) before installing it.

If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and
should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or
any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or time
does!

The hard drive works fine, as does every other component. I found out
the problem... afterwards. Apparently there is still an ongoing report
about incompatibilities with software that is not yet complete,
including video drivers, etc. I have no idea what caused the problem
but suffice it to say there is NO WAY that SP2 is being installed on
my machine for a very, very, very long time.

There was nothing any "How To" from MS could have helped me on this
one since after the reboot is when these problems sent me into a
spiraling trail of autoreboots, each one earlier than the prior until
I had no choice.

You did have a choice, that was to prepare. Not having a choice means you
were forced to have SP2 installed without preparing. Here are a few MS
sites regarding preparations:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
http://support.microsoft.com/default...S;windowsxpsp2

Here is a list of programs that MAY NOT function properly using SP2
(Updated 9/9)
http://support.microsoft.com/default...t=windowsxpsp2

There is an alphabetical list of hardware/softweare vendors and their
respective websites located at the bottom of this web page (as well as the
list of programs in this page), that are list under three different links
(one link for example is for hardware/software listed alphabetically A-K,
and so on).

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242

A) You ass ume that all the vendors and their products are listed.

B) You also expect the ability to uninstall in some fashion in the
event that the results are not as expected.

C) I didn't expect to lose all my installs of Windows XP reinstalling
it, regardless of whether you think I was or was not prepared, now
having all these wonderful documents after the fact. I didn't even
know of the installs issue and THAT is what is ticking me off even
more than having to reformat my entire system. What is this crap of my
having to call MS every time I need to install Windows? Given Windows'
inability to easily deal with the crap spewed by applications and
add-ons, unlike a Mac, I find True Image imaging a major need to do
every few months to ensure the system is smooth.

MJ,
The only problem I see with your future plans. In time, any further =
windows updates, will require that you have SP2 installed first. I don't =
think they will completely redesign SP2, but will offer updates. MS =
offers SP2 CD for free, go to MS to order it. It should arrive within 2 =
weeks, I got mine sooner.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/d...rder/en_us/de=
fault.mspx


I would recommend if at this time, you are forced to reinstall your =
version of XP on your PC, do a clean install of XP not a Repair Install. =

1. First disconnect PC from Internet connection. Disconnect any =
peripherals such as printers, scanners, etc...
2. Reload Windows XP
3. Before reloading any software, then load all the drivers (or driver =
software if required) for the hardware on the PC.
4. Enable XP firewall, unless you are connected though a router with =
built-in firewall.
5. Then install your Antivirus software. Go to their website, especially =
if you use Norton, and get any updates available for SP2.
6. Go to any hardware manufacturers, site and get any upgrades for the =
hardware. You may have to reload the drivers again after installing SP2.
7. Go to Windows Update and reinstall SP2.
8. Then install the rest of your software.
9. Rebooting PC as installation process requires.

--=20

Add MS to your News Reader: news://msnews.microsoft.com
Rich/rerat

(RRR News) message rule
Previous Text Snipped to Save Bandwidth When Appropriate


"MJ" wrote in message =
...
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 17:48:01 -0400, "RRR_News" wrote:

For those considering using the Repair Recovery feature of XP, and have =
already installed SP2. I would recommend that you first uninstall SP2, =
then do the repair.

Wish I could. Unfortunately after install my PC kept crashing and I
was unable to uninstall. It soon refused to boot up entirely. I have
no idea what could have caused the problem since nothing was launched
and my drivers seemed to be compatible.

I do appreciate the help though. At this point I am not installing SP2
until I know it is safe for me to do so and all the kinks have been
worked out. Too many apps to reinstall to hope it works. My
understanding is that several apps are not compatible and time for
fixes are not known at this time.

I like the food analogy, (and I like pancakes). I expected, (suspected),
that the security apps would conflict with some home-grown web apps. I did
not expect to see blueberries oozing out of the graphics drivers.

It is like being back in the DOS days... when you had to unload and re-load
each driver to see which one was the Root Cause. Simple... comment out a
line in config.sys to test it. (now you know how old I am).

On my current system I have to do that over a hundred times... etc. etc.,
and then... I'd rather have pancakes.

"SlowJet" wrote:

Why would the bleeding edge hurt any less than the trailing edge?

The software all has to be in a compatible STACK.
Have you every odrered one of each type of pancke?
Not exactly the Bell cruve breakfast, would you think?

Yes, new stuff is just as clunky as old stuff.

SJ
"MpM" wrote in message
...
This is the 2nd time I see this comment from you.... so please understand,
not all machines are created equally. (Dell 3.06 Ghz, 2 ea. LCD, 1Gig Ram,
WD
80gig)

My example is that I can document some specific problems with SP2.
Examples:
The latest NVidia driver. Some advanced window handling features will not
initialize without an error on SP2. They worked perfectly with SP1.
(Quadro
NVS).

The security warnings crop up even though the JavaScript is running
locally,
on a web app that is communicating to a database on the same machine, (no
network access, not even intranet - AND, scripts, even unsigned, are
enabled).

Windows Explorer, (not IE! ... and not just the File Mgr. window... I mean
Explorer that runs the desktop), locks up. I can kill the process, start
a
new session in a cmd window and go right back to work, but....)

Video now causes BSoD (Blue Screen of Death). This is true in several
different apps, (Pinnacle, QuickTime, and Irfanview - Is it the graphics
driver? [again... worked fine on SP1]).

I went through the "get ready for SP2". I ran one week on SP1 with all
updated drivers to ensure no problems. I had zero errors on install.

This machine is (used to be) on 24X7. I schedule a cleanup and then
reboot
every Sunday night. I am now researching drivers, doing a cleanup every
day,
and consider myself lucky if I can get through a days work without having
to
reboot at least once.

I work in I.S. I have advised our service group not to install SP2 until
more research is done on driver compatibility, especially regards graphics
and the functionality of our home-grown Web Apps.
STATEMENT: SP2 is not as robust as SP1. Depending on the driver
combinations, installed software base, etc., you may or may not experience
these problems, but SP2 is not as robust as SP1.

"Rho_1r" wrote:

I Installed sp2 no problems at all, I dont understand why so many have
these
problems, I dont have one of them.
Rho_1r(VIP) not MVP

"Tom" wrote:


"MJ" wrote in message
...
I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install
the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA
250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In
one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying
to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping
out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give
me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

Sounds like a fairly new system, and totally up to specs for anything
XP, including SP2, but you didn't prepare for it. You should have read
here, or at MS for the "How Tos" for installing SP2 (or any major MS
update/service pack) before installing it.

If your hard drive crapped out, then it is a hardware problem, and
should be relegated to the manufacturer for warranty. SP2, Windows (or
any software for that matter) doesn't break hardware, people do, or
time does!

One more comment.... I went back and read through your dilemma again, and
there is another option....
Do a completely fresh install, (this assumes that you have a full install CD
and not just the upgrade version). That means re-format and start from
scratch.

Why do I say that? I had a problem with the original install of XP, and a
similar problem when I tried to re-install. I did a format, (to get ALL of
the installation informaiton cancelled off the HD), and the installation went
fine.

I recently had to re-install XP for a second time when my HD fried. I had
none of the problems I had with the corrupt data HD.
Note: 1. I am making assumptions that there is garbage on your hard drive
that is preventing the activation.
2. If you are using an upgrade disk, you will need the CD from the prior OS,
95. 98 or ME to do a complete fresh install.
Good Luck... I hope it all works out.
"MJ" wrote:

I apologize. You are correct MpM but cannot recall my post. As I'm not
a newbie I got mad rather than scared.

I'm not sure what the problem was but notwithstanding my need to
perhaps do research on sites other than Microsoft's, I'm still at a
loss as to how I'm now needing to get a new very long activation key
at every future install since I never changed the hardware. It's a bit
disconcerting making the call at 2AM or so and then be confronted with
the reality of defending your need to ask for the key...


On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:39:07 -0700, MpM
wrote:

Do you really expect him to answer you after your derogatory remarks?

SP2 has issues, (your flawless installation not withstanding). Operators
have issues. For both reasons, we wind up here. Let's cut MJ a little
slack. You provided good info, but he may too scared off to make use of it.
Thanks

"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, MJ.

Did you read all the instructions and fine print (Your munged email address
suggests that you are a lawyer.) as carefully as you apparently read about
the difference between activation and registration?

installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP.

Registration is NEVER required. Activation IS required. REactivation is
not required unless your hardware has changed significantly since the prior
activation within 120 days. WinXP allows unlimited reinstallations on "the
same" computer. For details, see:
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation.mspx

I won't get into the rest of your tirade. Just this much is enough to make
me wonder about your competence to install, manage and run that nice
computer, which does, indeed, sound like a "homebuilt beauty". WinXP SP2
runs just fine on my new EPoX 8KDA3+/AMD Athlon 64 3200+/1GB RAM (with SCSI
and 2 IDE drives, DVD-ROM and DVD burner; SATA and RAID are built in, but I
don't use them yet; etc.). Reactivation (painlessly via Internet) was
required when I upgraded the mobo/CPU in July, but NOT when I installed SP2
in August.

And literally MILLIONS of other users around the world - including many
newbies - have installed SP2; only a few have had problems with it. Except
for the documented problem with 64-bit AMD and DEP (easily fixed with a
simple edit in boot.ini), I had no problems. SP2 was installed in less than
one hour.

All this is not to deny that you really did and still do have problems or
that they are serious. Some installers have reported serious problems.
Microsoft would like to hear specific details about those cases so that the
problems can be solved, either by pointing you to already-known solutions or
by working with you to identify and solve previously-unknown problems. Have
you been to the Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) Support Center? It's at:
http://support.microsoft.com/default...r=windowsxpsp2

If you will detail your specific problems, chances are someone here can help
you figure out how to deal with them.

Why does your subject line mention the "Windows XP Copyright"?

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP

"MJ" wrote in message
...
I did an incredibly dumb think last weekend. I installed Windows
Service Pack 2 because I was informed that it was vital to install the
security updates. My PC worked beautifully prior to SP2. It's a
homebuilt beauty with an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, two SATA 250
GB hard drives, 2 IDEs, a DVD and CD burner with 1.5 GB of RAM. In one
fell swoop it reduced my HD to rubble since it resulted in crashing
half my applications and then causing boot errors so that I couldn't
even boot into windows, repeated automatic restarts, inability to fix
using the worthless Recovery Console, resulting in my needing to
recover my data form lost partitions, move my data all over the
place... etc. etc. etc. what a bloody mess.

I'm still not finished figuring it out but in the process of trying to
resurrect my HD and reinstall windows through repair and then
reinstall over the existing installation of windows (kept crapping out
my PC), I have been informed that all my Windows XP "allocated
installs" are used up. I had to call MS, give them a very long code,
in order to obtain the ability to register my copy of XP. I'm told
that EVERY time that I may have to reinstall I can look forward to
this procedure and having to justify to Microsoft why I need another
install key from them.

Note to Microsoft: If this is an install issue then you should give me
another 20 automatically when I say the phrase "Windows XP required
full reinstalls after an 'update' caused my PC to crash and burn and
require formatting and attempted restore/reinstalls."

It's not a good feeling to be insecure about the fact that the money
you plunked down now requires justification for further installation
in the future.

-----Original Message-----
Tom wrote:
"Herb Fritatta"
wrote in message news:014701c499c6$ee1eb260
...

-----Original Message-----

"Herb Fritatta"

wrote in message news:159201c499c0$a8127910
...

snipped already, a too long thread!

This is almost too stupid for words. What are is a
hardware "MF"? I know what "mf" stands for in my
neighborhood, but I think maybe you meant "mfg."

LMAO! MF is (my) short response for manufacturer (mfg
is

short for manufacturing), as you said you thought (is
that
possible for you?), but you felt the need to make
yourself
sound stupid, and think it was something else! While
you're on the "This is too stupid" thing, what kind
of "stupid English" questions is, "What are is a
hardware "MF"?"

Actually, "mfg." is an acceptable abbreviation for
"manufacturer" although it makes no sense. Try and find
me a source for "MF" as you used it.



No, "mfg" is not an acceptable form, technically "mfr"
is the right usage in this instance; your attempts at
being a pedant, is beginning to show your intelligence. I
stated (already), that MF is just my usage for this case
(to be quick), you can either ignore it, or continue to
understand it as such. But as long as you continue to use
the wrong abbreviation as being "correct", then I'll
continue to ignore your technical nitpicking of terms and
abbreviations?

As far as your claim that I didn't follow through, I
did according to the OP, and I am not going through the
whole thing again, just to satisfy your ego. You read what
she said, it was very clear, that she gave no detail of
what she did (as for anything to prepare) before SP2,
other than just download and install SP2 on first notice
of it being needed.

Reading your other posts concerning these issues, it is
obvious that you will not be satisfied with any one
person's explanation, or thoughts unless it suits your
emotional state du jour. You remind me of some creationist
science deniers. No matter what real evidence is given to
them, they explain it away as lies, and the evidence is
not acceptable, until it matches their beliefs!

OK, let's summarize. You misinterpreted the OP and
responded based on
unwarranted presumption. You have referred to the OP
as "she" for no
apparent reason.

You've been had, you first referred to her(him) as a she,
not I; I was simply being congruent.


You then accused me of being ill-prepared in installing
SP2 without having a shred of evidence upon which to base
the
accusation.

I did not accuse you of anything, read again! (learn what
accuse means while you're at it)

You have posted an absurd unsupported assertion--that
99.9%
of SP2 trouble is due to "ill prepared" installs. (I
understand that
this is an exaggeration for effect, or at least I hope it
is.)

Reasonable, since there have been millions of downloads to
date, and the fact that SP2 issues posted in the MS groups
might represent 10-20% of all post speak volumes.

I think
this all speaks very eloquently for itself.
.

As your PC skills don't!