SP2 drove me to open source

Jason;
If you did the same before and everything worked fine then you apparently
have a bad install this time.
Since you just installed, the best solution may be to start over instead of
taking the time to find and fix the problem

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...
Frankly you both are juvenille but I sure would like to figure out why a
fresh install of XP Pro with SP2 applied right after the install has left
me with a machine that can't seem to find device drivers for new hardware
that is plugged in to it. Trying to add a sidewinder usb joystick and an
iPod(firewire and usb) results in the hardware wizard failing for both,
saying it can't find the drivers. Any tips for that or just more of the
same? Sadly I've done the same exact install before and everything worked
just fine.

That's assinine that re-installing would be the answer. Surely this can
be figured out without me having to get every cd out again and going
through this process once more. I don't want to be punished for going
against my instict.

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Jason;
If you did the same before and everything worked fine then you apparently
have a bad install this time.
Since you just installed, the best solution may be to start over instead of
taking the time to find and fix the problem

Did you install the chipset drivers for your motherboard this second go
round?

Greg


"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...
Frankly you both are juvenille but I sure would like to figure out why a
fresh install of XP Pro with SP2 applied right after the install has left
me with a machine that can't seem to find device drivers for new hardware
that is plugged in to it. Trying to add a sidewinder usb joystick and an
iPod(firewire and usb) results in the hardware wizard failing for both,
saying it can't find the drivers. Any tips for that or just more of the
same? Sadly I've done the same exact install before and everything worked
just fine.

lesjf wrote:
well thats great boohoo. I'm 100% behind bill and his team and am very
pleased with sp2. if you have had problems it probly cause your not
taking care of your systems and if you think you are your probly doing a
half assed job at it. thats all i got to say about that forest

"velozoom30" wrote:


Thanks to Microsoft's WindowsXP SP2, I have finally made the move to open
source applications. I've wanted to make the move for some time but some
laziness on my part has delayed me. Thanks, Billy, for pushing out the
SP2 and specifically the security center because that horrid piece of
programming (I call SP2 the new WinME) finally made me so angry and
frustrated with you and your company that I built up a Linux box at home
and will soon be migrating all of my personal equipment over to the
Penguin. If I am browsing and come across some content that will only
work in your non-W3c standards compliant browser, I refuse to view it.
DId you notice that FireFox 1.0 was downloaded over a million times the
first DAY it was available? Hallelujiah!
I am the systems administrator at a television station and so am used to
dealing with new technology. I have never had as many problems with a
single piece of software (and let me tell you, video-editing, TV
production, and graphics software can be extremely touchy and hard to
work with) as I have with SP2. It has bolluxed up so many systems at my
station, rendering some applications totally unusable, that I have
removed it from every machine I have. I've talked to the administration
and we are looking into moving away from all MS products and following
the growing trend of dismantling our Windows infrastructure.

I truly hope that the recent trend in computing to move away from the
monopolistic domination of MS is but the first scratchings of the
proverbial writing on the wall that will soon say that MS is on its way
out. Maybe it won't come soon, certainly not soon enough for any
thinking and rational IT person, but I think it is coming and on that day
I will rejoice.
Thanks, again, Billy. SP2 did it's job well enough for me.

Jason;
Well, that is your opinion and you are free to maintain your computer as you
see fit.
How much time have you spent on this current issue vs. how much time to
reinstall on a system that is still a new install?
The suggestion is given since your installation is so new.
In such cases, it is often much quicker to start over rather than spend the
time troubleshooting and possibly reinstall anyways.

If you want a more precise solution to otherwise resolve your issue, you
need to post the details you have so far left out such as hardware
configuration.
With the details, someone may be able to give a specific answer.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...
That's assinine that re-installing would be the answer. Surely this can
be figured out without me having to get every cd out again and going
through this process once more. I don't want to be punished for going
against my instict.

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Jason;
If you did the same before and everything worked fine then you apparently
have a bad install this time.
Since you just installed, the best solution may be to start over instead
of taking the time to find and fix the problem

All the drivers are from Microsoft, off the XP CD or from Windows update.

Greg Burns wrote:
Did you install the chipset drivers for your motherboard this second go
round?

Greg


"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...

Frankly you both are juvenille but I sure would like to figure out why a
fresh install of XP Pro with SP2 applied right after the install has left
me with a machine that can't seem to find device drivers for new hardware
that is plugged in to it. Trying to add a sidewinder usb joystick and an
iPod(firewire and usb) results in the hardware wizard failing for both,
saying it can't find the drivers. Any tips for that or just more of the
same? Sadly I've done the same exact install before and everything worked
just fine.

lesjf wrote:

well thats great boohoo. I'm 100% behind bill and his team and am very
pleased with sp2. if you have had problems it probly cause your not
taking care of your systems and if you think you are your probly doing a
half assed job at it. thats all i got to say about that forest

"velozoom30" wrote:



Thanks to Microsoft's WindowsXP SP2, I have finally made the move to open
source applications. I've wanted to make the move for some time but some
laziness on my part has delayed me. Thanks, Billy, for pushing out the
SP2 and specifically the security center because that horrid piece of
programming (I call SP2 the new WinME) finally made me so angry and
frustrated with you and your company that I built up a Linux box at home
and will soon be migrating all of my personal equipment over to the
Penguin. If I am browsing and come across some content that will only
work in your non-W3c standards compliant browser, I refuse to view it.
DId you notice that FireFox 1.0 was downloaded over a million times the
first DAY it was available? Hallelujiah!
I am the systems administrator at a television station and so am used to
dealing with new technology. I have never had as many problems with a
single piece of software (and let me tell you, video-editing, TV
production, and graphics software can be extremely touchy and hard to
work with) as I have with SP2. It has bolluxed up so many systems at my
station, rendering some applications totally unusable, that I have
removed it from every machine I have. I've talked to the administration
and we are looking into moving away from all MS products and following
the growing trend of dismantling our Windows infrastructure.

I truly hope that the recent trend in computing to move away from the
monopolistic domination of MS is but the first scratchings of the
proverbial writing on the wall that will soon say that MS is on its way
out. Maybe it won't come soon, certainly not soon enough for any
thinking and rational IT person, but I think it is coming and on that day
I will rejoice.
Thanks, again, Billy. SP2 did it's job well enough for me.

Jason;
You are usually better off getting the drivers directly from the hardware
manufacturers.

Microsoft gets the drivers from the manufacturers.
Tests are performed at the manufacturers expense and only then does
Microsoft release them.
This and other reasons often lead to newer drivers being available from the
hardware manufacturer.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...
All the drivers are from Microsoft, off the XP CD or from Windows update.

Greg Burns wrote:
Did you install the chipset drivers for your motherboard this second go
round?

Greg

It's my opinion that something should work right consistently?

Mobile Athlon XP-M 2400+(runs at 1.87Ghz)
512 MB RAM
60 GB hard drive
DVD-CDRW drive
2 USB 1.1 ports
1 Firewire 400 port
National Semi DP83815 (MacPhyter) 10/100 Ethernet
ALi Corporation M5451 PCI AC-Link Controller Audio Device
ALi Corporation M5457 AC-Link Modem
PS/2 mouse port
RS-232(serial) port
Parallel port
VGA out
S-VHS out
1 CardBus slot

All the drivers come from the Original XP install or Windows update, all
my hardware was supported by XP out of the box. Basically I've done all
the monkey boy check lists, I need more expertise than following the
scripts. I've done the uninstall/reinstall the software schtick. I want
to know why XP, when it run the new hardware wizard says, it can't find
the drivers for anything I've plugged in. I'd just like to get real
answers instead of stabs in the dark. The problem is there doesn't seem
to be a real answer, just stabs in the dark.

It is a default install of XP Pro with XP SP2 applied and nothing other
than drivers distributed by Microsoft. If something went wrong during
any of the installation or subsequent install of SP2 there was no
notification.

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Jason;
Well, that is your opinion and you are free to maintain your computer as you
see fit.
How much time have you spent on this current issue vs. how much time to
reinstall on a system that is still a new install?
The suggestion is given since your installation is so new.
In such cases, it is often much quicker to start over rather than spend the
time troubleshooting and possibly reinstall anyways.

If you want a more precise solution to otherwise resolve your issue, you
need to post the details you have so far left out such as hardware
configuration.
With the details, someone may be able to give a specific answer.

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Jason;
You are usually better off getting the drivers directly from the hardware
manufacturers.

Microsoft gets the drivers from the manufacturers.
Tests are performed at the manufacturers expense and only then does
Microsoft release them.
This and other reasons often lead to newer drivers being available from the
hardware manufacturer.


So you are telling me that Microsoft distributes drivers it doesn't test
with it's operating system and subsequent updates?

Jason;
I never said that, you just did.
Microsoft only tests the drivers sent by the manufacturers at the
manufacturers expense.
There are often newer drivers available from the manufacturers.
Read my post again for what I said.
It is difficult to test anything for compatibility issues with "subsequent
updates" since often the update does not exist when the driver is submitted
to Microsoft for testing.
Try the latest driver from the manufacturer.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...
So you are telling me that Microsoft distributes drivers it doesn't test
with it's operating system and subsequent updates?

"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...
It's my opinion that something should work right consistently?

Mobile Athlon XP-M 2400+(runs at 1.87Ghz)
512 MB RAM
60 GB hard drive
DVD-CDRW drive
2 USB 1.1 ports
1 Firewire 400 port
National Semi DP83815 (MacPhyter) 10/100 Ethernet
ALi Corporation M5451 PCI AC-Link Controller Audio Device
ALi Corporation M5457 AC-Link Modem
PS/2 mouse port
RS-232(serial) port
Parallel port
VGA out
S-VHS out
1 CardBus slot

All the drivers come from the Original XP install or Windows update, all
my hardware was supported by XP out of the box. Basically I've done all
the monkey boy check lists, I need more expertise than following the
scripts. I've done the uninstall/reinstall the software schtick. I want
to know why XP, when it run the new hardware wizard says, it can't find
the drivers for anything I've plugged in. I'd just like to get real
answers instead of stabs in the dark. The problem is there doesn't seem
to be a real answer, just stabs in the dark.

It is a default install of XP Pro with XP SP2 applied and nothing other
than drivers distributed by Microsoft. If something went wrong during any
of the installation or subsequent install of SP2 there was no
notification.


Jason

Is this a laptop? If so it will need the drivers from the manufacturer or at
least the chipset manufacturer. It is very rare to see a laptop that works
properly with a generic XP install. If you don't have the disk that came
with it check the web for drivers. So far I have always been able to get the
right drivers on the web but it sometimes is quite a hunt for generic
laptops. I've had to strip them down so I could physically identify the
motherboard.

Laptop manufacturers routinely ship with slightly modified Windows
installations to support their non-standard hardware. Expecting Microsoft to
support non-standard hardware is unrealistic. Also calling most of the
people on this newsgroup "monkey boys" isn't a great way to ask for help.
Diagnosing complex problems by newsgroups will always be a stab in the dark.
If you want better support talk to the manufacturer of your computer.

If this is not a laptop please ignore my post :-)

Other than the monkey boy part :-)

Kerry

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Jason;
I never said that, you just did.
Microsoft only tests the drivers sent by the manufacturers at the
manufacturers expense.
There are often newer drivers available from the manufacturers.
Read my post again for what I said.
It is difficult to test anything for compatibility issues with "subsequent
updates" since often the update does not exist when the driver is submitted
to Microsoft for testing.
Try the latest driver from the manufacturer.


There are wires crossed here. I only have drivers from Microsoft,
including the ones from Windows Update or the ones distributed with SP2.
I have no drivers from any other source. Shouldn't these all be tested?

Jason;
Yes, they were tested at some point.
As to whether they are compatible with SP-2 is difficult to say.
Are the drivers dated before or after the release of SP-2?
If you used these same drivers before, they should still work.
Anything can get corrupted and there is nothing anyone can do anywhere with
anything that can permanently eliminate chances of corruption.

In any event drivers is a good place to start since a reinstall is not an
option for you.
Start with chipset and any other motherboard drivers from the manufacturer.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...
Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Jason;
I never said that, you just did.
Microsoft only tests the drivers sent by the manufacturers at the
manufacturers expense.
There are often newer drivers available from the manufacturers.
Read my post again for what I said.
It is difficult to test anything for compatibility issues with
"subsequent updates" since often the update does not exist when the
driver is submitted to Microsoft for testing.
Try the latest driver from the manufacturer.


There are wires crossed here. I only have drivers from Microsoft,
including the ones from Windows Update or the ones distributed with SP2. I
have no drivers from any other source. Shouldn't these all be tested?

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Jason;
Yes, they were tested at some point.
As to whether they are compatible with SP-2 is difficult to say.
Are the drivers dated before or after the release of SP-2?
If you used these same drivers before, they should still work.
Anything can get corrupted and there is nothing anyone can do anywhere with
anything that can permanently eliminate chances of corruption.

In any event drivers is a good place to start since a reinstall is not an
option for you.
Start with chipset and any other motherboard drivers from the manufacturer.


I re-installed, did the same install path I always did and everything
worked. The issue is that I have always taken this XP Pro CD and
installed it and just used the drivers from the XP CD and Windows
update. It is a laptop and the manufacturer, Compaq, didn't have any
"motherboard" drivers, just drivers for sound, video, modem etc. The
files they provide are the same I got from Windows update, I compared
the files installed and the driver versions. I could find no reason for
the behavior of the last install and this is precisely why people get
frustrated with Microsoft. I am an operating system hobbyist, like to
play with whatever I can get my hands on, and I've never had the issue
be uninstall/reinstall ad nauseum with other operating systems. It's
simply unacceptable and smacks of poor software engineering.

"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...
Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
Jason;
Yes, they were tested at some point.
As to whether they are compatible with SP-2 is difficult to say.
Are the drivers dated before or after the release of SP-2?
If you used these same drivers before, they should still work.
Anything can get corrupted and there is nothing anyone can do anywhere
with anything that can permanently eliminate chances of corruption.

In any event drivers is a good place to start since a reinstall is not an
option for you.
Start with chipset and any other motherboard drivers from the
manufacturer.


I re-installed, did the same install path I always did and everything
worked. The issue is that I have always taken this XP Pro CD and
installed it and just used the drivers from the XP CD and Windows update.
It is a laptop and the manufacturer, Compaq, didn't have any "motherboard"
drivers, just drivers for sound, video, modem etc. The files they provide
are the same I got from Windows update, I compared the files installed and
the driver versions. I could find no reason for the behavior of the last
install and this is precisely why people get frustrated with Microsoft. I
am an operating system hobbyist, like to play with whatever I can get my
hands on, and I've never had the issue be uninstall/reinstall ad nauseum
with other operating systems. It's simply unacceptable and smacks of poor
software engineering.

Have you tried installing Linux on the laptop? Did it work immediately?
Nothing against Linux, just using it as an example. Operating systems are
complex. Laptops have non-standard hardware. It is very rare to install an
OS on a laptop and not have to do some tweaking. Compaq should have shipped
a recovery CD with the laptop. That is the only OS guaranteed to run on it.
Blame Compaq (the original OS supplier), not Microsoft or any other OS
supplier. I find that in cases like you describe it is usually a
dirty/scratched CD or marginal drive. The OS seems to install Ok but
something is not right. Reinstalling with a different CD or cleaning the CD
and reinstalling usually fixes it. It's a stab in the dark but based on my
experience it could be close to the mark.

Glad to hear you got it going.

Kerry

Kerry Brown wrote:
"Jason Bowen" wrote in message
...

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

Jason;
Yes, they were tested at some point.
As to whether they are compatible with SP-2 is difficult to say.
Are the drivers dated before or after the release of SP-2?
If you used these same drivers before, they should still work.
Anything can get corrupted and there is nothing anyone can do anywhere
with anything that can permanently eliminate chances of corruption.

In any event drivers is a good place to start since a reinstall is not an
option for you.
Start with chipset and any other motherboard drivers from the
manufacturer.


I re-installed, did the same install path I always did and everything
worked. The issue is that I have always taken this XP Pro CD and
installed it and just used the drivers from the XP CD and Windows update.
It is a laptop and the manufacturer, Compaq, didn't have any "motherboard"
drivers, just drivers for sound, video, modem etc. The files they provide
are the same I got from Windows update, I compared the files installed and
the driver versions. I could find no reason for the behavior of the last
install and this is precisely why people get frustrated with Microsoft. I
am an operating system hobbyist, like to play with whatever I can get my
hands on, and I've never had the issue be uninstall/reinstall ad nauseum
with other operating systems. It's simply unacceptable and smacks of poor
software engineering.


Have you tried installing Linux on the laptop? Did it work immediately?

Yep, it actually did. The only thing that wasn't supported was the
winmodem and support for it can be bought for $15. There is a
difference between supporting hardware and the operating system not
working correctly. Like I've said, I've never had such a solution for
any other operating system. OpenBSD installed smoothly on this laptop.

Nothing against Linux, just using it as an example. Operating systems are
complex. Laptops have non-standard hardware.

The chipset is used by other laptops, the cpu is, the winmodem is, the
soundcard is... What do you define as standard? The manufacturers all
made windows drivers available for the hardware.

It is very rare to install an
OS on a laptop and not have to do some tweaking. Compaq should have shipped
a recovery CD with the laptop. That is the only OS guaranteed to run on it.
Blame Compaq (the original OS supplier), not Microsoft or any other OS
supplier. I find that in cases like you describe it is usually a
dirty/scratched CD or marginal drive. The OS seems to install Ok but
something is not right. Reinstalling with a different CD or cleaning the CD
and reinstalling usually fixes it. It's a stab in the dark but based on my
experience it could be close to the mark.


Sorry but what you describe happening should be caught, a scratched cd
won't read and the drives have error detection taking place. It's all
hand waving really. I know about uninstall/reinstall/wash/rinse/repeat,
I came here looking for something more in depth.

Glad to hear you got it going.

Kerry