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  #31  
Old September 18th 18, 01:39 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

In article , 123456789
wrote:

rs232 serial ports were once universal.


Some technology fades away, some doesn't. Analog headphones have been
with us for over a hundred years.


long overdue to be replaced.

Technology that is simple, effective,
and just works, sticks around. My GUESS is that since most all current
devices including (gasp) some Apple devices have an analog headphone
jack, your changeover just may take a wee bit longer than you think.


technology moves fast and it ain't just apple.

already there are numerous android phones with a digital headphone jack.

a 100 year old standard isn't going to disappear overnight.

My wired headphones last forever. No headphone charge ever
needed...


you have to charge your phone a lot more...


Maybe I could actually charge my phone a lot LESS since I can leave the
Bluetooth radio OFF when using a WIRED headphone.


bluetooth uses a negligible amount of power, so it doesn't matter if
it's on or off.

listening to music and certainly having the display on will use a *lot*
more power than bluetooth, plus turning it off prevents a lot of other
stuff from working.
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  #32  
Old September 18th 18, 02:46 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 182
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 00:21:12 GMT, wrote:

It's not the chip (DAC), it's the speakers.


Well, yes, but I can assure you that there are audible differences
over the range of DACS.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #33  
Old September 18th 18, 02:52 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 182
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 20:39:06 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

It's not the chip (DAC), it's the speakers.


yep, or in this case, headphones.

except there are those who think that they can hear a difference
between different dacs, different cables, etc. some of the audiophile
stuff is beyond crazy.


In my search I found DACs ranging in price fro about $5(!) to $26,000.
I finished up paying about $500.

I already had a DAC in my Roland Duo Capture EX which I bought for use
as an ADC for transcribing vinyl discs. Its DAC was acceptable but in
the end I finished up buying an Arcam irDAC-II which is a middle of
the road DAC. It made an audibly better job of converting digital to
analog than did the Roland. Mind you, I was listening through good
gear.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #34  
Old September 18th 18, 02:54 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
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Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 20:39:05 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


There is absolutely no way that you could get a good DAC into either a
phone or a pair of ear phone/buds.

maybe not the phone, which is very space constrained, however, that's
not an issue with headphones, which have plenty of space for whatever
dac and whatever else you might want:
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/yFwW5pTwL3ot83qNGZohrj-650-80.jpg
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/yqKv8shdnTqEipGtN2gdvg-650-80.jpg

even earbuds, which aren't known for the best sound quality, could have
an inline dac that would never fit into a phone.

you're describing one way a digital headphone jack is better.


I've recently been through the trauma of finding a good DAC and I
stand by my comment. Sure there are tiny and low priced DACs but they
sound like crap. Anything worthwhile is far too large and expensive to
use in consumer head phones.


nonsense,

with a digital headphone jack, you can use whatever dac you want (not
that you can hear a difference), whether it's an integral part of the
headphone or a standalone box.

with an analog headphone jack, you're stuck with whatever dac is in the
device. there is no way to get a digital audio stream.

your comments support the transition to digital headphone jacks.


My comment was derived from the thought of the kind of DAC a
manufacturer would install in a pair of ear buds.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #35  
Old September 18th 18, 02:59 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

your comments support the transition to digital headphone jacks.


My comment was derived from the thought of the kind of DAC a
manufacturer would install in a pair of ear buds.


it doesn't matter, since the quality of the earbuds is the limiting
factor, not the dac.
  #36  
Old September 18th 18, 02:59 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Posts: 1,991
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

In my search I found DACs ranging in price fro about $5(!) to $26,000.
I finished up paying about $500.


any of which can be used with a digital headphone jack and whatever
headphones/speakers you want.

not that there is an audible difference, except perhaps the $5 one.

I already had a DAC in my Roland Duo Capture EX which I bought for use
as an ADC for transcribing vinyl discs. Its DAC was acceptable but in
the end I finished up buying an Arcam irDAC-II which is a middle of
the road DAC. It made an audibly better job of converting digital to
analog than did the Roland. Mind you, I was listening through good
gear.


confirmation bias.
  #37  
Old September 18th 18, 04:04 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
123456789[_3_]
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Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

On 9/17/2018 5:39 PM, nospam wrote:

a 100 year old standard isn't going to disappear overnight.


Glad you finally agree.

bluetooth uses a negligible amount of power


With my phone's 3760 mAh battery I generally end the day at over 80% so
whether Bluetooth or wired phones use more juice is pretty much academic
for me anyway. YMMV.

listening to music and certainly having the display on will use a
*lot* more power than bluetooth


You think the display really stays on when listening to music??

I just hit my phone's off/sleep button when the music app is playing
and the screen goes OFF while the music stays ON. SAME when streaming
radio apps. SAME with all my Android and Amazon devices. SAME with my
Chromebook. And likely SAME with Apple stuff. It seems that after all
this digital headphone rhetoric of yours that you don't even use
headphones...
  #38  
Old September 18th 18, 04:28 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

In article , 123456789
wrote:


a 100 year old standard isn't going to disappear overnight.


Glad you finally agree.


i never said otherwise, but it *is* going to go away for the vast
majority of devices. there will be a few holdouts just as there are
still companies that make film.

bluetooth uses a negligible amount of power


With my phone's 3760 mAh battery I generally end the day at over 80% so
whether Bluetooth or wired phones use more juice is pretty much academic
for me anyway. YMMV.


then why did you bring it up?

listening to music and certainly having the display on will use a
*lot* more power than bluetooth


You think the display really stays on when listening to music??


two different situations.

the point is that bluetooth power draw is negligible compared to
everything else that's going on.
  #39  
Old Yesterday, 11:24 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 182
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:59:09 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

In my search I found DACs ranging in price fro about $5(!) to $26,000.
I finished up paying about $500.


any of which can be used with a digital headphone jack and whatever
headphones/speakers you want.

not that there is an audible difference, except perhaps the $5 one.


Lots of people think you are wrong. I certainly do.

I already had a DAC in my Roland Duo Capture EX which I bought for use
as an ADC for transcribing vinyl discs. Its DAC was acceptable but in
the end I finished up buying an Arcam irDAC-II which is a middle of
the road DAC. It made an audibly better job of converting digital to
analog than did the Roland. Mind you, I was listening through good
gear.


confirmation bias.


When I unwittingly leave the wrong one turned on I can immediately
hear the difference. It's not imagination.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #40  
Old Yesterday, 11:25 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 182
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 21:59:08 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

your comments support the transition to digital headphone jacks.


My comment was derived from the thought of the kind of DAC a
manufacturer would install in a pair of ear buds.


it doesn't matter, since the quality of the earbuds is the limiting
factor, not the dac.


They must be acoustically lousy!
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #41  
Old Yesterday, 03:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Posts: 1,991
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

In my search I found DACs ranging in price fro about $5(!) to $26,000.
I finished up paying about $500.


any of which can be used with a digital headphone jack and whatever
headphones/speakers you want.

not that there is an audible difference, except perhaps the $5 one.


Lots of people think you are wrong. I certainly do.


even more do not.

some might *think* they can hear a difference, but they can't.

objective double-blind tests consistently show that people do no better
than chance. in other words, they're guessing.

I already had a DAC in my Roland Duo Capture EX which I bought for use
as an ADC for transcribing vinyl discs. Its DAC was acceptable but in
the end I finished up buying an Arcam irDAC-II which is a middle of
the road DAC. It made an audibly better job of converting digital to
analog than did the Roland. Mind you, I was listening through good
gear.


confirmation bias.


When I unwittingly leave the wrong one turned on I can immediately
hear the difference. It's not imagination.


then it's defective or it's intentionally adding something to the
sound, neither of which is desirable.

regardless, with a digital headphone jack, you can use whatever dac you
want. with an analog headphone jack, you're stuck with whatever is in
the device.
  #42  
Old Yesterday, 04:58 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
123456789[_3_]
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Posts: 11
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

On 9/19/2018 3:24 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
nospam wrote:


I found DACs ranging in price fro about $5(!) to $26,000. I
finished up paying about $500.


not that there is an audible difference, except perhaps the $5
one.


Lots of people think you are wrong. I certainly do.


When I unwittingly leave the wrong one turned on I can immediately
hear the difference. It's not imagination.


At his age it's the ears, not the earphones...

(And anyway he obviously doesn't use them since he didn't have a clue
about how they work on modern devices.)

  #43  
Old Today, 04:00 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 182
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 10:13:42 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

In my search I found DACs ranging in price fro about $5(!) to $26,000.
I finished up paying about $500.

any of which can be used with a digital headphone jack and whatever
headphones/speakers you want.

not that there is an audible difference, except perhaps the $5 one.


Lots of people think you are wrong. I certainly do.


even more do not.

some might *think* they can hear a difference, but they can't.

objective double-blind tests consistently show that people do no better
than chance. in other words, they're guessing.


You have used that argument several times, applied to different
aspects of audio. I bet you can't cite an example relating to DACs on
high level equipment.

I already had a DAC in my Roland Duo Capture EX which I bought for use
as an ADC for transcribing vinyl discs. Its DAC was acceptable but in
the end I finished up buying an Arcam irDAC-II which is a middle of
the road DAC. It made an audibly better job of converting digital to
analog than did the Roland. Mind you, I was listening through good
gear.

confirmation bias.


When I unwittingly leave the wrong one turned on I can immediately
hear the difference. It's not imagination.


then it's defective or it's intentionally adding something to the
sound, neither of which is desirable.


Or one of them is intentionally(?) not adding something to the sound.

regardless, with a digital headphone jack, you can use whatever dac you
want. with an analog headphone jack, you're stuck with whatever is in
the device.


Yep.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #44  
Old Today, 05:09 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
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Posts: 1,991
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

In my search I found DACs ranging in price fro about $5(!) to $26,000.
I finished up paying about $500.

any of which can be used with a digital headphone jack and whatever
headphones/speakers you want.

not that there is an audible difference, except perhaps the $5 one.

Lots of people think you are wrong. I certainly do.


even more do not.

some might *think* they can hear a difference, but they can't.

objective double-blind tests consistently show that people do no better
than chance. in other words, they're guessing.


You have used that argument several times, applied to different
aspects of audio. I bet you can't cite an example relating to DACs on
high level equipment.


numerous times, because it's true. people *think* they can hear a
difference, but when put to the test, they can't. they do no better
than chance.

it also applies to more than just audio.

there was a double-blind test with wine, where expert wine tasters
couldn't identify the cheap wines from the expensive ones, including
when one of the 'red wines' was white wine + food colouring.
  #45  
Old Today, 11:28 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 182
Default Epson XP 830 Ink Cartridge Problem

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 00:09:53 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

In my search I found DACs ranging in price fro about $5(!) to $26,000.
I finished up paying about $500.

any of which can be used with a digital headphone jack and whatever
headphones/speakers you want.

not that there is an audible difference, except perhaps the $5 one.

Lots of people think you are wrong. I certainly do.

even more do not.

some might *think* they can hear a difference, but they can't.

objective double-blind tests consistently show that people do no better
than chance. in other words, they're guessing.


You have used that argument several times, applied to different
aspects of audio. I bet you can't cite an example relating to DACs on
high level equipment.


numerous times, because it's true. people *think* they can hear a
difference, but when put to the test, they can't. they do no better
than chance.


The example you originally quoted was in a different context
altogether.

it also applies to more than just audio.

there was a double-blind test with wine, where expert wine tasters
couldn't identify the cheap wines from the expensive ones, including
when one of the 'red wines' was white wine + food colouring.


If we accept your argument then double-blind tests are a waste of time
under any circumstances we are discussing with you.

In fact, and for example, practically nobody could fail to detect the
difference between my PC speakers and the Arcam DAC feeding the Quad
amplifier and Z4 speakers with their ribbon tweeters. The difference
between the two DACs is not as great but it is quite audible.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
 




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