Device Location

I'm running XPHome, SP3, on an IDE machine, cable select.

I've got (I opened the case to be sure, and Windows Explorer reports all
four drive letters/size/type correctly as):

Primary IDE
1) hard drive C, master (end of cable)
2) hard drive D, slave

Secondary IDE
3) DVD-ROM E, master (end of cable)
4) DVD-RW F, slave


In Device Manager, the Primary IDE Channel, Advanced Settings tab shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 5)
Device 1 (running UDMA 5)

and the Secondary IDE Channel shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 2)
Device 1 (running UDMA 4)

Here's what I don't understand. Also in Device Manager, if I look at the
properties of each Disk Drive and each DVD/CD-ROM Drive, I see:

1) C is listed as location 0 (0)
2) D is listed as location 1 (1)
3) E is listed as location 0 (0)
4) F is listed as location 1 (1)

What does 0 (0), or 1 (1) designate? Is it simply where the device is
located on the bus (master/slave), without regard to primary or secondary
IDE Channel? If so, why repeat the location, i.e. 1 (1)?

Thanks.

"Boris" wrote in message
.213...
I'm running XPHome, SP3, on an IDE machine, cable select.

I've got (I opened the case to be sure, and Windows Explorer reports
all
four drive letters/size/type correctly as):

Primary IDE
1) hard drive C, master (end of cable)
2) hard drive D, slave

Secondary IDE
3) DVD-ROM E, master (end of cable)
4) DVD-RW F, slave


In Device Manager, the Primary IDE Channel, Advanced Settings tab
shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 5)
Device 1 (running UDMA 5)

and the Secondary IDE Channel shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 2)
Device 1 (running UDMA 4)

Here's what I don't understand. Also in Device Manager, if I look at
the
properties of each Disk Drive and each DVD/CD-ROM Drive, I see:

1) C is listed as location 0 (0)
2) D is listed as location 1 (1)
3) E is listed as location 0 (0)
4) F is listed as location 1 (1)

What does 0 (0), or 1 (1) designate? Is it simply where the device is
located on the bus (master/slave), without regard to primary or
secondary
IDE Channel? If so, why repeat the location, i.e. 1 (1)?

Thanks.

Yes, the number tells you it is the master (0) or slave (1) drive on
that channel....actually, it tells you the location on the cable (you
may be using Cable Select rather than Master/Slave jumpering, so it goes
by the cable location on 80-wire IDE cables).

I have no idea why it shows the number twice...I imagine when someone
explains that, I'll say "Ahhhh".
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

"glee" wrote in
:

"Boris" wrote in message
.213...
I'm running XPHome, SP3, on an IDE machine, cable select.

I've got (I opened the case to be sure, and Windows Explorer reports
all
four drive letters/size/type correctly as):

Primary IDE
1) hard drive C, master (end of cable)
2) hard drive D, slave

Secondary IDE
3) DVD-ROM E, master (end of cable)
4) DVD-RW F, slave


In Device Manager, the Primary IDE Channel, Advanced Settings tab
shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 5)
Device 1 (running UDMA 5)

and the Secondary IDE Channel shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 2)
Device 1 (running UDMA 4)

Here's what I don't understand. Also in Device Manager, if I look at
the
properties of each Disk Drive and each DVD/CD-ROM Drive, I see:

1) C is listed as location 0 (0)
2) D is listed as location 1 (1)
3) E is listed as location 0 (0)
4) F is listed as location 1 (1)

What does 0 (0), or 1 (1) designate? Is it simply where the device
is located on the bus (master/slave), without regard to primary or
secondary
IDE Channel? If so, why repeat the location, i.e. 1 (1)?

Thanks.

Yes, the number tells you it is the master (0) or slave (1) drive on
that channel....actually, it tells you the location on the cable (you
may be using Cable Select rather than Master/Slave jumpering, so it
goes by the cable location on 80-wire IDE cables).

I have no idea why it shows the number twice...I imagine when someone
explains that, I'll say "Ahhhh".

That's sort of what I thought, and what I had read. I guess the double
0s or 1s is a quirk of Windows. I just didn't understand why Windows
seemed to be reporting two drives on the same device location.

Yes, I do have the hard drives jumpered CS, and they are indeed
connected with 80-wire IDE cables.

Like I said, I did pop the case open a few hours ago, but I didn't look
to see how the optical drives were jumpered, but if I remember
correctly, their cable was only a 40-wire IDE cable. That doesn't make
sense though, because optical E is a Liteon 163, whos specs show
operating at a max of UDMA 2, and takes a 40-wire IDE cable, and optical
F is a Pioneer 116D, whos specs show operating at UDMA 4, IF connected
with an 80-wire IDE cable.

All IDE cables in the machine are Dell OEM. Darn, I'm going to have to
pop the case open again. How can the Pioneer 116D be operating at UDMA
4 on only a 40-wire IDE cable.

Hmmm...

Thanks.

"Boris" wrote in message
.213...
"glee" wrote in
:

"Boris" wrote in message
.213...
I'm running XPHome, SP3, on an IDE machine, cable select.

I've got (I opened the case to be sure, and Windows Explorer reports
all
four drive letters/size/type correctly as):

Primary IDE
1) hard drive C, master (end of cable)
2) hard drive D, slave

Secondary IDE
3) DVD-ROM E, master (end of cable)
4) DVD-RW F, slave


In Device Manager, the Primary IDE Channel, Advanced Settings tab
shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 5)
Device 1 (running UDMA 5)

and the Secondary IDE Channel shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 2)
Device 1 (running UDMA 4)

Here's what I don't understand. Also in Device Manager, if I look
at
the
properties of each Disk Drive and each DVD/CD-ROM Drive, I see:

1) C is listed as location 0 (0)
2) D is listed as location 1 (1)
3) E is listed as location 0 (0)
4) F is listed as location 1 (1)

What does 0 (0), or 1 (1) designate? Is it simply where the device
is located on the bus (master/slave), without regard to primary or
secondary
IDE Channel? If so, why repeat the location, i.e. 1 (1)?

Thanks.

Yes, the number tells you it is the master (0) or slave (1) drive on
that channel....actually, it tells you the location on the cable (you
may be using Cable Select rather than Master/Slave jumpering, so it
goes by the cable location on 80-wire IDE cables).

I have no idea why it shows the number twice...I imagine when someone
explains that, I'll say "Ahhhh".

That's sort of what I thought, and what I had read. I guess the
double
0s or 1s is a quirk of Windows. I just didn't understand why Windows
seemed to be reporting two drives on the same device location.

Yes, I do have the hard drives jumpered CS, and they are indeed
connected with 80-wire IDE cables.

Like I said, I did pop the case open a few hours ago, but I didn't
look
to see how the optical drives were jumpered, but if I remember
correctly, their cable was only a 40-wire IDE cable. That doesn't
make
sense though, because optical E is a Liteon 163, whos specs show
operating at a max of UDMA 2, and takes a 40-wire IDE cable, and
optical
F is a Pioneer 116D, whos specs show operating at UDMA 4, IF connected
with an 80-wire IDE cable.

All IDE cables in the machine are Dell OEM. Darn, I'm going to have
to
pop the case open again. How can the Pioneer 116D be operating at
UDMA
4 on only a 40-wire IDE cable.

Hmmm...

The ATA specifications call for an 80-wire cable for UDMA4 and up, but
if the drive spec is UDMA4, it can attain that on a 40-wire
cable....there is just greater risk of interference at high speed. The
optical drive burning at 16X goes at something like 22MB/sec, which is
slower than the 33MB/sec of UDMA2, so the risk of interference at high
speed is usually not an issue. Some computers and optical drive
combinations will manage UDMA4 with the 40-wire cable, others will not
and will report only UDMA2.

You're probably OK continuing to use that cable for the *optical*
drives, but I personally prefer to use the 80-wire cables for
everything...and it also meets the specification's requirement. If you
replace the drive with another, it might not be as forgiving and report
only UDMA2 on that cable, so.....

Curious why you placed the slower reader in the "master" position and
the faster writer in the "slave" position. That's the reverse of what
is usually recommended. I always place the faster drive or the writer
in the "master" position.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

"glee" wrote in news:ua2Ftx3sKHA.5904
@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:


"Boris" wrote in message
.213...
"glee" wrote in
:

"Boris" wrote in message
.213...
I'm running XPHome, SP3, on an IDE machine, cable select.

I've got (I opened the case to be sure, and Windows Explorer reports
all
four drive letters/size/type correctly as):

Primary IDE
1) hard drive C, master (end of cable)
2) hard drive D, slave

Secondary IDE
3) DVD-ROM E, master (end of cable)
4) DVD-RW F, slave


In Device Manager, the Primary IDE Channel, Advanced Settings tab
shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 5)
Device 1 (running UDMA 5)

and the Secondary IDE Channel shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 2)
Device 1 (running UDMA 4)

Here's what I don't understand. Also in Device Manager, if I look
at
the
properties of each Disk Drive and each DVD/CD-ROM Drive, I see:

1) C is listed as location 0 (0)
2) D is listed as location 1 (1)
3) E is listed as location 0 (0)
4) F is listed as location 1 (1)

What does 0 (0), or 1 (1) designate? Is it simply where the device
is located on the bus (master/slave), without regard to primary or
secondary
IDE Channel? If so, why repeat the location, i.e. 1 (1)?

Thanks.

Yes, the number tells you it is the master (0) or slave (1) drive on
that channel....actually, it tells you the location on the cable (you
may be using Cable Select rather than Master/Slave jumpering, so it
goes by the cable location on 80-wire IDE cables).

I have no idea why it shows the number twice...I imagine when someone
explains that, I'll say "Ahhhh".

That's sort of what I thought, and what I had read. I guess the
double
0s or 1s is a quirk of Windows. I just didn't understand why Windows
seemed to be reporting two drives on the same device location.

Yes, I do have the hard drives jumpered CS, and they are indeed
connected with 80-wire IDE cables.

Like I said, I did pop the case open a few hours ago, but I didn't
look
to see how the optical drives were jumpered, but if I remember
correctly, their cable was only a 40-wire IDE cable. That doesn't
make
sense though, because optical E is a Liteon 163, whos specs show
operating at a max of UDMA 2, and takes a 40-wire IDE cable, and
optical
F is a Pioneer 116D, whos specs show operating at UDMA 4, IF connected
with an 80-wire IDE cable.

All IDE cables in the machine are Dell OEM. Darn, I'm going to have
to
pop the case open again. How can the Pioneer 116D be operating at
UDMA
4 on only a 40-wire IDE cable.

Hmmm...

The ATA specifications call for an 80-wire cable for UDMA4 and up, but
if the drive spec is UDMA4, it can attain that on a 40-wire
cable....there is just greater risk of interference at high speed. The
optical drive burning at 16X goes at something like 22MB/sec, which is
slower than the 33MB/sec of UDMA2, so the risk of interference at high
speed is usually not an issue. Some computers and optical drive
combinations will manage UDMA4 with the 40-wire cable, others will not
and will report only UDMA2.

Ah, I wasn't aware of this. I was doing some reading on transfer
rates/ATA specs, etc, but after an hour or so, that was enough for
someone like me. It seemed that the more I read, the more questions I
had and the more I had to dig into hardware specs of the optical drives
and the motherboard/IDE controller. I was overwhelmed. g

You're probably OK continuing to use that cable for the *optical*
drives, but I personally prefer to use the 80-wire cables for
everything...and it also meets the specification's requirement. If you
replace the drive with another, it might not be as forgiving and report
only UDMA2 on that cable, so.....

I will definitely install an 80-wire cable.


Curious why you placed the slower reader in the "master" position and
the faster writer in the "slave" position. That's the reverse of what
is usually recommended. I always place the faster drive or the writer
in the "master" position.

I wasn't aware that this made a difference. The machine came (Dell 4550,
March 2003) with a CD-RW as master and a DVD-ROM as slave. At some
point, I swapped out the DVD-ROM with a Plextor DVD-RW (still in slave)
to burn videos. I also used the Plextor to convert about 330 vinyl
albums to .wav, and burn to CD for my dad. This burned out the CD
capabilities of the Plextor, and I then replaced it with the current
Pioneer DVD-RW. I never gave it any consideration as to how to configure
two different speed optical drives on the same IDE channel.

Thanks for all the information.

"Boris" wrote in message
...
"glee" wrote in news:ua2Ftx3sKHA.5904
@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

The ATA specifications call for an 80-wire cable for UDMA4 and up,
but
if the drive spec is UDMA4, it can attain that on a 40-wire
cable....there is just greater risk of interference at high speed.
The
optical drive burning at 16X goes at something like 22MB/sec, which
is
slower than the 33MB/sec of UDMA2, so the risk of interference at
high
speed is usually not an issue. Some computers and optical drive
combinations will manage UDMA4 with the 40-wire cable, others will
not
and will report only UDMA2.

Ah, I wasn't aware of this. I was doing some reading on transfer
rates/ATA specs, etc, but after an hour or so, that was enough for
someone like me. It seemed that the more I read, the more questions I
had and the more I had to dig into hardware specs of the optical
drives
and the motherboard/IDE controller. I was overwhelmed. g

You're probably OK continuing to use that cable for the *optical*
drives, but I personally prefer to use the 80-wire cables for
everything...and it also meets the specification's requirement. If
you
replace the drive with another, it might not be as forgiving and
report
only UDMA2 on that cable, so.....

I will definitely install an 80-wire cable.


Curious why you placed the slower reader in the "master" position and
the faster writer in the "slave" position. That's the reverse of
what
is usually recommended. I always place the faster drive or the
writer
in the "master" position.

I wasn't aware that this made a difference. The machine came (Dell
4550,
March 2003) with a CD-RW as master and a DVD-ROM as slave. At some
point, I swapped out the DVD-ROM with a Plextor DVD-RW (still in
slave)
to burn videos. I also used the Plextor to convert about 330 vinyl
albums to .wav, and burn to CD for my dad. This burned out the CD
capabilities of the Plextor, and I then replaced it with the current
Pioneer DVD-RW. I never gave it any consideration as to how to
configure
two different speed optical drives on the same IDE channel.

Thanks for all the information.

The drives should work fine in either position, but sometimes you get a
writer that gives trouble if it's not in the "master" position. I
wouldn't worry about it if everything is working. It's just something
that is done when installing the drives in an attempt to pre-empt any
issues.

I've got a couple hundred vinyl LP's I'd like to get on CD....shall I
send them to you? ;-)
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/

"Boris" wrote in message
.213...
I'm running XPHome, SP3, on an IDE machine, cable select.

I've got (I opened the case to be sure, and Windows Explorer reports all
four drive letters/size/type correctly as):

Primary IDE
1) hard drive C, master (end of cable)
2) hard drive D, slave

Secondary IDE
3) DVD-ROM E, master (end of cable)
4) DVD-RW F, slave


In Device Manager, the Primary IDE Channel, Advanced Settings tab shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 5)
Device 1 (running UDMA 5)

and the Secondary IDE Channel shows:
Device 0 (running UDMA 2)
Device 1 (running UDMA 4)

Here's what I don't understand. Also in Device Manager, if I look at the
properties of each Disk Drive and each DVD/CD-ROM Drive, I see:

1) C is listed as location 0 (0)
2) D is listed as location 1 (1)
3) E is listed as location 0 (0)
4) F is listed as location 1 (1)

What does 0 (0), or 1 (1) designate? Is it simply where the device is
located on the bus (master/slave), without regard to primary or secondary
IDE Channel? If so, why repeat the location, i.e. 1 (1)?

Thanks.

Can't actually explain it but if you click the ? in the upper right corner
then Location it tells the drive could be other than IDE say SCSI. SCSI can
be 0-7 or even 0-15 and can also have 2 drives per # , ie: LUN0 and
LUN1(IIRC) I don't have a SCSI drive connected to this computer but location
for one of my USB card readers is

Location 0 (USBAT Bridge Slot 0).

So probably it's set up this way for other than IDE that have more drives.
I have a 3 card slot reader and newer ones have even more. HTH