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O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)



 
 
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  #61  
Old May 12th 18, 09:10 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Mark Twain wrote:
This is way over my head,.. I
wouldn't know what to buy even
if I figured out the wires/connectors.

That's why I was hoping you could
just point me to something. I didn't
realize it was so involved.

However, you said not to worry about
power supplies, correct?

Robert


If the power supplies in your two machines
are standard ones, you should be able to pick
one up when you need it. With two computers,
one of your computers could die, but you'd have
the second to use while a replacement power
supply was delivered.

Keeping a spare on site, is handy if you like
to "debug" computer failures. For example, I
used my spare to try to figure out why my
once-reliable P4 system was acting up the
last time I plugged it in.

Here, I have the advantage that I can drive
into town (20 minutes with slowest means of transport)
and pick one up off the shelf.

Another reason to buy them, is "sales". When
one power supply company decided to stop doing
business in our country, their PSUs went on sale
at the computer store. And I picked up a couple.
For some brands, I wouldn't be able to afford
a good one, unless they dropped the price to
try to get rid of it. There are some power
supplies which are $500 each (and no, those
aren't the ones that go on sale either).

Paul
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  #62  
Old May 12th 18, 06:10 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Well, the only reason I'm thinking
of buying them at all is the same
reason for the HD's, availability
and to keep my 8500 and 780 running
on Win7 Pro.

Unless you think there's no problem
in finding them later on.

What about this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=powe...04246680334346

https://www.google.com/search?q=powe...38978400392253

Robert
  #63  
Old May 12th 18, 08:58 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Mark Twain wrote:
Well, the only reason I'm thinking
of buying them at all is the same
reason for the HD's, availability
and to keep my 8500 and 780 running
on Win7 Pro.

Unless you think there's no problem
in finding them later on.

What about this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=powe...04246680334346

https://www.google.com/search?q=powe...38978400392253

Robert


The rear of the XPS8500 shows more or less standard screw
placement. The unit doesn't have an on-off switch. It looks
like there would be room for a switch if the replacement
had an on-off switch. There's no slide switch for input
voltage, to it's an auto-switching model. The supply is 460W
and I'm looking for a nameplate view.

https://images.pcworld.com/images/ar...6-11378070.jpg

This picture isn't the best, but it might have the specs
for the 460W Dell.

https://microdream.co.uk/media/catal...img_9159_6.jpg

3.3V @ 17A \___ Combined load, no more than 142W
5.0V @ 25A /

12VA @ 18A \
12VB @ 16A \___ Total 365W (hard to make out the number)
12VC @ 8A /

-12V @ 0.3A
+5VSB @ 3.0A

Overall power - no more than 460W

And I doubt I'm going to see a cable harness manifest, with
how many Molex chains there are and the like. It probably
has at least a 2x3 PCI Express for video cards (and as your
video card isn't a "monster", your card probably draws its
power from the slot).

You have to make sure the cabling on the new supply, is
long enough, and has enough cables.

Seasonic 550W modular 80+ Gold $80

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151189

+3.3V @ 20A, +5V @ 20A, +12V @ 45A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5Vsb @ 3A
\____ 100W max ____/ 540W 3.6W 15W
Overall supply power no more than 550W combined

Because the supplies now use "double-forward conversion",
the supply is separated into two parts. The +12V is the
first stage. The +12V output is converted into 3.3V and 5V
by a converter board. The concept for efficient (80+) systems
is that the low-voltage rails "aren't used very much" and
as a consequence, the current rating of the low voltage
is limited in max capacity.

And on that particular product line, as you select higher
and higher power supplies, they don't beef up the
converter card for the low voltage rails.

CORSAIR TX550M (CP-9020133-NA) 550W ATX12V v2.4/EPS2.92
80+ GOLD Semi-Modular $65

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817139210

+3.3V @ 25A, +5V @ 20A, +12V @ 43A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5Vsb @ 3A
\____ 120W max ____/ 516W 9.6W 15W
Overall supply power no more than 550W combined

And so far, they all have black cabling.

This one is similar to the first, but $100. And it looks
like it has two SATA cable runs and one Molex cable run.

Seasonic PRIME Ultra 550W 80+ Gold Power Supply,
Full Modular, 135mm FDB Fan ATX12V/EPS12V, Compact 140 mm Size,
Power On Self Tester, SSR-550GD2 $100

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151207

+3.3V @ 20A, +5V @ 20A, +12V @ 45A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5Vsb @ 3A
\____ 100W max ____/ 540W 3.6W 15W
Overall supply power no more than 550W combined

5.91" x 5.51" x 3.39"
STD 140mm STD

Now, this one uses black wire, but the wires are separate,
so they're not using those ribbon-like cables. This one is 6.5"
long versus the 5.5" long previous supply. That dimension
should be measured from the back of the computer, towards
the modular cable panel inside the PC. This seems to be
pretty generous on cable interfaces, even including the
floppy cable that might be used (to power something
other than a floppy).

EVGA SuperNOVA 550 G2 220-G2-0550-Y1 80+ GOLD 550W
Fully Modular EVGA ECO Mode Includes FREE Power On Self Tester $70

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817438053

+3.3V @ 22A, +5V @ 22A, +12V @ 46A, -12V @ 0.5A, +5Vsb @ 3A
\____ 110W max ____/ 550W 6W 15W
Overall supply power no more than 550W combined

1 x 24-Pin ATX
1 x 8-Pin (4+4) EPS (CPU)
2 x 8-Pin (6+2), 1 x 6-Pin PCIE
9 x SATA === 3 "chains"
3 x FourPin Peripheral === 1 "chain"
1 x Floppy

The review for that one, the pictures aren't working, and
maybe you have to be a member to get the pictures to render ?
In any case, it got a good rating electrically.

https://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.ph...print&reid=440

I wouldn't say paying for "compact" is all that impressive,
as both of my non-modular supplies here that are currently
running, are 5.5" long. And the modular I just put in
the old P4 PC, is 6.5" long. You'd want to check to see if
there is room for a 6.5" PSU in your tower or not. The
extra length could be caused by the depth of the
modular interface panel in the back of the supply.

Anyway, there are hundreds of supplies to choose from.
And in 2018, probably very few with colored wires.

Just for a joke, I selected one of the more "traditionalist"
manufacturers. FSP. Fortron/Sparkle. They're known for
precisely cutting material cost to just hit spec (like
the cross-load runs all the way out to the allowed 5%,
that sort of thing). They're also notorious for using
short cables. If your machine is compact, and none of
the wires are "long runs", you probably don't have anything
to worry about. If you had a computer case with PSU in
the bottom of the case, and needed to reach an optical
drive on the top front of the case, the cables won't be
long enough. That's part of their tradition.

FSP Group 550W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Active PFC
HGX550 (looks non-modular, ) $64

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIABP94H47035

+3.3V @ 20A, +5V @ 20A, +12V @ 46A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5Vsb @ 2.5A
\____ 120W max ____/ 550W 3.6W 12.5W
Overall supply power no more than 550W combined

So on that one, the main cable has colored wires :-)
And the other wires are black.

To their credit, the web advert has cable lengths
listed in the spec section.

The web advert also shows how their efficiency "hugs"
the 80% line.

Selecting these is a lot of work, not from an excess
of technical input, but just trying to figure out
why one is $30 more than another. And, whether that
money went into "name" or "actual quality".

So out of the four, the EVGA looks pretty good (Paul
likes cables, even if they're ugly...). But by all
means, keep shopping. There isn't a lot of difference
between these, at least, if you use the provided pictures.
It's pretty hard to tell how miserable the wire looms
are, until you get one home to play with it. I don't
find all this "modular" and "ribbon" cabling to be
all that wonderful. It didn't solve any
problems for me and it was just as much of a pain
in the ass to fold up the excess cable length,
as it always is.

If I was running a computer shop, I'd probably use
my clamp-on DC ammeter and make a few measurements,
to see why the 8500 has a supply with a 25A rating
on 5V. There's really no justification for that
which I can spot visually. I have only one
computer in the house, that used 5V @ 25A, and
that was an AthlonXP box that runs the CPU off
5V. Whereas your machines (modern machines) run
the CPU off the generous 12V rail.

If you were to plug the 8500 into a Kill-A-Watt
meter, it probably idles at 100W. Making it
pretty hard for the 3.3V and 5V combined total
to be 100W too. Those numbers would have to
be lower than the 100W figure.

*******

OK, I found a Sparkle with colored wires :-)

You can see the low rails are a bit low on ampere capacity,
and the price is $100.

SPARKLE R-FSP600-80ETN 600W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS12V V2.92
80+ PLATINUM Certified Active PFC ~$100

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP40S8223

5.5" x 5.9" x 3.4"
Len STD STD

+3.3V @ 20A, +5V @ 18A, +12V @ 46A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5Vsb @ 3A
\____ 100W max ____/ 552W 3.6W 15W
Overall supply power no more than 600W combined

1 x 24 Pin Main Power Connector === probably not split 20+4
1 x EPS12V / ATX12V 4+4 Pin Connector
2 x PCI-E 6+2 Pin
6 x SATA 2 "chains"
4 x Molex Not really sure, no cable length specs either
1 x Floppy

Why you're paying $100 for that, is the Platinum spec. There's
only one level higher than platinum, and that's titanium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus

Really, no product seems to hit all the tick boxes
at the same time.

Paul
  #64  
Old May 12th 18, 10:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Here's a diagram and pics of the
back of the 8500:

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-produ...nual_en-us.pdf

http://i65.tinypic.com/29qi4h0.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/689ff6.jpg

These were the power supplies I found on Newegg:

https://www.newegg.com/Power-Supplies/SubCategory/ID-58


I'll go with Sparkle and the Platinum
specs but isn't 600W allot? Will these
be available for some time or are they
like the HD's and better get them while
I can?

Also what about the 780?

Here's a diagram and the specs although
not good.

http://www.dell.com/downloads/global...idebook_en.pdf

http://i64.tinypic.com/166yczd.jpg

Robert

  #65  
Old May 13th 18, 01:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Mark Twain wrote:
Here's a diagram and pics of the
back of the 8500:

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-produ...nual_en-us.pdf

http://i65.tinypic.com/29qi4h0.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/689ff6.jpg

These were the power supplies I found on Newegg:

https://www.newegg.com/Power-Supplies/SubCategory/ID-58


I'll go with Sparkle and the Platinum
specs but isn't 600W allot? Will these
be available for some time or are they
like the HD's and better get them while
I can?

Also what about the 780?

Here's a diagram and the specs although
not good.

http://www.dell.com/downloads/global...idebook_en.pdf

http://i64.tinypic.com/166yczd.jpg

Robert


For the 780, your spec on page 18, has the numbers for the minitower (MT).
This appears to match your 166yczd.jpg picture, for the part I can see.
The 12VA and 12VB portion are current-limited outputs, which can be
handled by a supply with a combined (single) output. Even supplies
which pretend to have a single output, can still have OCP protection
that engages before the supply delivers the max current shown on the
label. That's why I lumped them together here, to make it
easier to match to a modern supply.

3.3V @ 8A, 5V @ 16A, 12V @ 25A, -12V @ 0.5A, +5VSB @ 4 amps
\__ max 80w total__/ 240W
Overall power for the complete supply 305W

That's going to be easier to meet, on 3.3V and 5V, as even
the 20A 20A 100W 80+ supplies can easily meet that. The 5VSB @ 4A
is not something you'd normally find, but neither is it
easy to imagine why you'd need that. Such a high capacity
helps when charging your Apple iPad off the back of the
780, but you should really be using an Apple charger
instead (so your "items" are independent of one another,
and you could travel with your iPad and charge it in a
hotel or whatever). When the 780 sleeps, if will use some where
between 5VSB @ 1 amp and 5VSB @ 2 amps, so the spec is needlessly
generous.

Again, there are still details that matter, such as whether the case
is a tight fit, whether it can accept a 6.5" long supply without bumping
against the back of the optical drive. Isn't the 780 a scissor computer case ?
If so, you'd want to study carefully, whether the cabling is extra-long
for some reason. (Maybe the wire loom on an FSP wouldn't be long
enough.)

Your link to the Newegg site, shows the whole PSU category, rather
than your selected choices.

Your 29qi4h0.jpg picture, shows the back of the 8500. No generic
replacement supply, is going to have what looks like a LED, underneath
the power plug.

While some of the items I saw today had sale prices, I don't
think you should be in a giant rush to "buy something". ATX PSUs
aren't going away... even if they do evolve slightly and make
a nuisance of themselves when you go shopping :-) In terms
of the time of year, yes, this is probably a good time to
shop. When you get closer to fall or Christmas, the prices
can go back up.

What you don't want, is to be tricked into buying something
that isn't a good match for the application.

When I'm buying supplies these days, I hardly ever get the
SATA/PATA mix I want, and invariably those disk drive cables
are wanting. But it's pretty hard to find a supply with the
right cabling, plus meet all the other stuff. That's why you
need to look inside your computer, at the length of cables,
and how many cables are needed to make it easy to cable up
the disk drives and optical drive.

On my other machine, I use Y-cables off a Molex for stuff.
The Molex carry 6 to 8 amps (assuming the wire gauge is
heavy enough), whereas the flimsy SATA connectors with their
3 amp rating, aren't good for fanning out with extenders. Even
if you're not using Molex today, you might some day need an
extender for some reason, and the Molex allows more amps to
flow. Some supplies use really thin copper on the cables,
which means the Molex would be tending towards a 6 amp limit.

Paul
  #66  
Old May 13th 18, 01:45 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Mark Twain wrote:
Here's a diagram and pics of the
back of the 8500:

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-produ...nual_en-us.pdf

http://i65.tinypic.com/29qi4h0.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/689ff6.jpg

These were the power supplies I found on Newegg:

https://www.newegg.com/Power-Supplies/SubCategory/ID-58


I'll go with Sparkle and the Platinum
specs but isn't 600W allot? Will these
be available for some time or are they
like the HD's and better get them while
I can?

Also what about the 780?

Here's a diagram and the specs although
not good.

http://www.dell.com/downloads/global...idebook_en.pdf

http://i64.tinypic.com/166yczd.jpg

Robert


With regard to this...

"but isn't 600W allot"

Increasing the max power rating of the supply, doesn't
affect how much it draws from the wall. Not for *small*
changes in capacity (like changing from a 500W to a 600W,
the effect would be minimal).

If the motherboard uses 100W, a high efficiency 600W supply
would draw 110W from the wall, and release 10W of heat
through the PSU cooling fan. So rather than "running up
your electric bill" with the 600W number, it is drawing 110W
at idle. It would only hit 600W, if you bought a couple $1000
video cards and installed them and increased the internal
electrical load.

If you go too far up the curve, you might pay a price on
efficiency and waste heat. Maybe a 1600W supply would release
20W into the room, when suppling 100W. The efficiency at low
load isn't as good as it is half way out. A 1600W supply
might be highly efficient at 800W of loading. And less
efficient at other extremes.

When I pick a power supply for you:

1) It might not look like it, but I'm trying to keep the
price down.

2) I try not to specify "junk" for people. Yes, you can find
a power supply for $20. But, if it only lasts for 3 months,
and it doesn't have OVP or OCP, what would the damage to your
computer cost ? I try to pick supplies where I think there is
a possibility they have a minimal set of protections.

3) The industry wants to raise the prices. To increase their
margin, they want to sell higher capacity supplies. Yet,
if I shopped for a 350W unit, the replacement retail ones
might "all be crap". So I have to adjust my selections,
to the more mainstream units. The ones that maybe I can get
a review rating. Or, enough people are purchasing them, I
can get some idea from the Newegg reviews, as to whether
they're good or not.

The last one I bought here, was an EVGA 650W G2. Do I need
650W ? No! I don't own any $1000 video cards that suck
down 300W. The one in this machine (an Enermax) is
465W, which is plenty. And that was back in the days
when 465W was pretty generous, and that was more the
"sweet spot" at the time.

There are hundreds of supplies on the Newegg site that
would probably nominally meet your requirements. But you
have to make sure you have a laundry list of requirements,
like how many cables do you actually need, do the cables
have to be extra long. So there are refinements of the
search process, which aren't in the handy menu on the left.

You could also use a measuring tape, and see how much room
you have realistically, for a longer supply. Maybe a 5.5"
long one or a 6.5" long one would work. And by keeping
the power rating down, I was hoping to keep the chassis
of the supply short as well. (The 1600W one might be eight
inches long. Generally, when they switch to multiple
transformers for 12V, that makes the unit longer. Such
units with separate transformers aren't all that common
today.)

Paul
  #67  
Old May 13th 18, 03:08 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

On the 780 I lift a latch and the side removes.
On the 8500 I undo a screw and slide the panel
back

Here's the cabling the 780:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2zdvr14.jpg

Robert
  #68  
Old May 13th 18, 03:18 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

I trust all your recommendations,..

I just was curious about the 600 Watts
in stereo terms that's allot! However
I appreciate you explaining things so
I can understand.

I'll have to open up the 8500 and 780 again
to measure exactly how big the power supply
is and how much spare room.

This isn't an urgent thing as I said this
is for in the near future and something I
want to prepare for rather than waiting
till the last minute.

However, I have a few things I need to take
care of first beforehand but I wanted to get
an understanding of what I'll be getting.

Robert





  #69  
Old May 13th 18, 06:19 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Mark Twain wrote:
On the 780 I lift a latch and the side removes.
On the 8500 I undo a screw and slide the panel
back

Here's the cabling the 780:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2zdvr14.jpg

Robert


One thing that's different about that supply, is the
main cable loom exits through a hole in the bottom of
the supply. Most retail supplies are set up for ATX
rather than BTX, and the loom comes out the back.

That means the main cable is going to have to curve
around the bottom of the supply before plugging into
the main connector on the motherboard.

The SATA power looks a bit different than on a retail
supply. The two SATA power connectors are closer together
than normal, at the end of the cable.

I don't think a generic replacement, is going to
look as "clean" as the setup looks right now.

Paul
  #70  
Old May 13th 18, 10:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Here are the measurements:

8500:

http://i67.tinypic.com/jq125y.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/r8h0yc.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/25itbh2.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/241nsso.jpg

780:

http://i65.tinypic.com/wtvo7.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/34q7d06.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/4uxr8x.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/14439sy.jpg

Robert



  #71  
Old May 14th 18, 01:25 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Mark Twain wrote:
Here are the measurements:

8500:

http://i67.tinypic.com/jq125y.jpg 5.4" (Length)

http://i63.tinypic.com/r8h0yc.jpg 5.91" ??? (STD width)

http://i65.tinypic.com/25itbh2.jpg 3.39" (STD height)

http://i65.tinypic.com/241nsso.jpg


By eyeball, a 6.5" long power supply would still fit,
if using modular.


780:

http://i65.tinypic.com/wtvo7.jpg 5.5" (Length)

http://i68.tinypic.com/34q7d06.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/4uxr8x.jpg 5.91" (STD width)

http://i68.tinypic.com/14439sy.jpg 3.39" ??? (STD height, verify!!!)


For the standard dimension measurements, it's probably
easier for you to convince yourself that you
are seeing 5.91" width and 3.39" height. Two of the
dimensions of a standard ATX should be fixed. Occasionally
you will see some really weird ideas on faceplate holes
for the four screws. There have been screwups there,
such as in a couple cases, putting the fan such that
it's facing the *top* of the PC. Which isn't going
to work for a lot of computer cases.

The dimensions have to adhere to standards, because
of the "tray and rail" systems used to support the PSU.
They bend some of the sheet metal on the case, to make
a means to hold the supply. On computer cases made out of
soup tin metal, that's a challenge for them (too thin
for its own good).

If the main power cable comes out of the back of a
retail PSU, it will need some bend radius to get 'round
to the location of the main connector. A 6.5" would
probably fit, but the bend would be a nuisance. Using
a semi-modular with the main cable always attached, would
take slightly less space. Looms generally never
come out of the bottom of the PSU, right next to the
fan body, not like the custom design used on yours.

Part of the problem with the Dells, is listening to Intel
and the introduction of BTX layout. The one thing that makes
the industry work well, is the usage of the fewest standards
possible. And BTX was one standard too many.

Paul
  #72  
Old May 14th 18, 06:41 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

So are my power supply's going to be hard to
find? Will the Sparkle be around fro awhile?
and what about the custom design where the
loom comes out the bottom?

Thanks,
Robert
  #73  
Old May 14th 18, 09:06 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Mark Twain wrote:
So are my power supply's going to be hard to
find? Will the Sparkle be around fro awhile?
and what about the custom design where the
loom comes out the bottom?

Thanks,
Robert


If you shop for a shorter length supply, then that will
leave room for the cable to come out the back,
bend around, and plug into the motherboard.

You will likely need to chain a couple nylon wraps
together, to get a "holder" to hold the excess of
main cable run (since the replacement supply will
have a much longer main cable length, than the
custom one you have now).

You can see in this example, how the main cable
had to snake around like the letter "C", to take
up the slack. Things don't always work out that
nicely, and sometimes you have to scrunch up
a hunk of cable, to deal with all of it.

https://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/35/Dr_Cable.jpg

If we look at the FSP one

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIABP94H47035

it has cable lengths in the spec table. The main cable is
600mm or two feet. Now, imagine that run of cable coming
out the back of the PSU, bending around and going to the
motherboard. There might be a whole extra foot of cable
in excess. A foot isn't enough to fold up and put a nylon tie
around, so you might try the letter C trick. One of your cases
has cable guides for holding cables "in flight".

When people do "beauty builds", they use computer cases where
the excess wire is hidden behind the motherboard, and comes
back through to the surface again through grometted holes.
And that's how they hide the excess cable. I don't have any
cases here that allow such a thing, and all my excess cable
is just clumped in a big mess right in the top center
of the case.

Nothing I do here, wins any beauty contests.

It's possible to buy Molex shells, Molex pins,
get a pin removal tool, get a crimping tool, and
"customize" a wire loom to the correct length
for the job. But of course, if you were expecting
to make a warranty claim later for a bad PSU, the
warranty would be voided by cutting the excess cable
out of the loom.

It's not recommended to change the wire color. To
change the wires on a non-modular design, requires
heating up the PCB that holds a ton of wires. It
requires a lot of heat, like a 200W soldering iron
or a blow torch device (to get the BTUs needed).
There is a lot of solder to heat, to change out
the wires. For the modular cabling situations,
it might be possible to buy separate (replacement)
cables, but there aren't necessarily enough "standards"
on the PSU end, to make this approach practical.

Some of the first modular supplies were a disaster,
because the connectors were not keyed or made unique.
You could plug the wrong cable into a modular hole.
Some even allowed cables to go in upside-down, blowing
out the motherboard or other stuff. The designs today
are much more intelligent, so this is less likely
to happen on a "fully modular" supply.

I wouldn't say that all this stuff is "impossible",
but you do have to keep your wits about you,
use your imagination to see how the new item will
fit in the case. Whether any tricks will be needed.
And how ugly the result is going to look like, and
whether you even want to think about that part.

*******

If you shop for an *exact replacement* for the existing
PSU, you get the shape and wire lengths and wire locations.
But what you might not get, is the absolute best electrical
design of the PSU guts. That's why I haven't been pursuing
the problem with that approach. Because what is in there
could be "chinese crap". There's no way to know on a given
unit like that, how many corners were cut. And what are
the odds, the PSU actually came from the same factory
as the original ?

The supplies that HP and Dell use, while the power ratings
may seem low, the specs for the supply are generally
pretty good, and you can load it up right to the power
limit without a problem. So they can be good from that
perspective. But are they 80+ efficient ? Do they have
low ripple ? Supplies like that, generally aren't reviewed
by anyone with a power supply tester, so it's hard to say
for sure.

And I also don't know what a "Dell Parts Store" would
stock for such a thing. They would probably be as neat
and tidy as the original.

Paul
  #74  
Old May 14th 18, 08:08 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Hmmmmm I see what your saying about the length
of the FSP cable. There's no where to put it.
Why do they make it so long in the first place?

I went to the Dell store, and this what I found;
all refurbished.

https://pilot.search.dell.com/8500xps%20power%20supply

What do you think of refurbished power supplies if
I can't find a new supply that fits? Also why would
Dell use such a unconventional power supply, like their
750 GB HD? It seems a very unconventional computer.

https://www.staples.com/DELL-780-Tow...roduct_1498887

So far, we've picked the 'Sparkle' for the 8500 and
now were trying to find something for the 780. Next
question is the availability, how long do you think
I have for the power supplies before I can't get them
at all?

As far as the HD's, I'm going to try and pick up more
Moo1's.


For me, the 8500 and the 780 work well together and
have enough memory etc. The 8500 is very fast and the
780 just a tad behind. I especially like the fact that
I'm still using the Dell monitor for the 780 that came
with the 8200(which I boxed while it was still functional).

It might be fun someday to take it out of the box and
hook it up and see if it still works. We sure added allot
to keep it running and up to date. I think the last thing
we did was adding 2.0 ports.

Robert


Robert





  #75  
Old May 14th 18, 08:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Mark Twain wrote:
Hmmmmm I see what your saying about the length
of the FSP cable. There's no where to put it.
Why do they make it so long in the first place?

I went to the Dell store, and this what I found;
all refurbished.

https://pilot.search.dell.com/8500xps%20power%20supply

What do you think of refurbished power supplies if
I can't find a new supply that fits? Also why would
Dell use such a unconventional power supply, like their
750 GB HD? It seems a very unconventional computer.

https://www.staples.com/DELL-780-Tow...roduct_1498887

So far, we've picked the 'Sparkle' for the 8500 and
now were trying to find something for the 780. Next
question is the availability, how long do you think
I have for the power supplies before I can't get them
at all?

As far as the HD's, I'm going to try and pick up more
Moo1's.


For me, the 8500 and the 780 work well together and
have enough memory etc. The 8500 is very fast and the
780 just a tad behind. I especially like the fact that
I'm still using the Dell monitor for the 780 that came
with the 8200(which I boxed while it was still functional).

It might be fun someday to take it out of the box and
hook it up and see if it still works. We sure added allot
to keep it running and up to date. I think the last thing
we did was adding 2.0 ports.

Robert


Refurbished electronics, the electrolytic capacitors
have a 15-17 professed lifespan based on "drying out".
A capacitor company in the states contains a statement
to that effect on their web site. Electrolytic capacitor
manufacturing is rather standardized, for the most part.

However, in the "bad-cap" era, there was some industrial
espionage, where a formula for electrolyte was stolen.
Only problem was, the formula was wrong. Billions of capacitors
were made the wrong way. This caused one particular Dell,
to have practically a 100% failure rate for one of their
motherboards. (The motherboard used some of those bad
capacitors, and compared to other brands, every one
of the boards failed due to them. Some university sites
claimed their failures were in the high 90% range.)

Power supplies have those caps. Usually the big (dangerous)
cap or caps, are well made. Some of the smaller ones though,
can leak. I have an Antec here for example, where I bought
it new (like you, thinking ahead), tested it once on my
load tester, put it back in the box. Pulled it out of the
box two years later, and the output caps were leaking,
and any computer you connected it to, would crash.
That's because with the leaking caps, there was no
proper filtering on +5V. All four caps on +5V were leaking.

While we hope those capacitors have "disappeared" from
the market, what would it mean for a refurb ? In the case
of that sample Dell (worst case) motherboard, the only
way to buy those safely off Ebay, is if the advert
says "re-capped", meaning someone spent $50 to change
all the caps.

While I doubt Dell would pull a fast one, that's some
of the history of fast ones that needs to be considered.
You would try to find customer comments if possible,
with regard to what they received when they purchased
that refurb. A refurb is not likely to have a long
warranty (a standard industry practice for such things).

If a PSU is modular, at least in theory there is
a way to do a custom cable for it, and do a neater
job. But I haven't done that here, and have no intention
of investing in the right crimpers, extractors, and so on.
I did manage to buy the Molex pins at my one good
electronics store, but they didn't carry the nylon
shells or I would have bought some of those too. I
think to remove a pin, there is a tool that slides over it
and depresses the "spikes" that prevent the pin
from slipping out. Usually there is a retention feature
that only allows the pin to move one way.

I use my spare PSU as much for "testing", as for
immediate deployment.

Paul
 




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