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#16
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Computer needs warming up.
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote: Jonathan N. Little wrote: Peter Jason wrote: A friend has a computer that needs to be warmed up in cold weather before it will start. How cold are we talking about here? He blows hot air into it from a small electric floor-heater. Then it starts OK. What part in the computer needs fixing? Bad caps? Cheap PS? There have been reports of this kind of fallout before. The motherboards are probably never verified in a temperature chamber. I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken. The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest and hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time. Probably not all that easy to set up. https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/ RPM sect s/t trks surf skew seek t to t Layout Seagate ST-157A 44.7 MB 3602 512 26 3,360 6 0 63ms 40um F or A 3.5″, stepper As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in the curve in HDTune). Paul |
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#17
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Computer needs warming up.
On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote: On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote: Jonathan N. Little wrote: Peter Jason wrote: .... I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken. The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest and hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time. Probably not all that easy to set up. I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer should work best at working temps :-) It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time, so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others afterwards... https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/ That's one long technical article :-) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* RPMÂ*Â*Â* sect s/t trksÂ*Â* surfÂ* skewÂ* seekÂ*Â* t to tÂ* Layout Seagate ST-157AÂ* 44.7 MBÂ*Â* 3602Â*Â* 512Â* 26Â* 3,360Â* 6Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â*Â*Â*Â* 63msÂ*Â* 40umÂ*Â*Â* F or A 3.5″, stepper 63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier one. As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in the curve in HDTune). mmm. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#18
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Computer needs warming up.
On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ? wrote: You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else. With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it? It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's text that's super and why wouldn't you want that? |
#19
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Computer needs warming up.
Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ? wrote: You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else. With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it? Hypertext is a disease that involves a lot of crossposting. Paul |
#20
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Computer needs warming up.
On 26.08.20 10:05, Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ? wrote: You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else. With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it? So he can troll you in html. |
#21
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Computer needs warming up.
Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 26.08.20 10:05, Peter Jason wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ? wrote: You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!!Â* Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else. With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it? So he can troll you in html. HTTD: Hyper Text Trolling Disorder. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
#22
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Computer needs warming up.
On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ? wrote: You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else. With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it? It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's text that's super and why wouldn't you want that? First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets. Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference between them. -- Ken |
#23
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Computer needs warming up.
On 8/25/2020 7:16 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote: Jonathan N. Little wrote: Peter Jason wrote: A friend has a computer that needs to be warmed up in cold weather before it will start. How cold are we talking about here? He blows hot air into it from a small electric floor-heater. Then it starts OK. What part in the computer needs fixing? Bad caps? Cheap PS? There have been reports of this kind of fallout before. The motherboards are probably never verified in a temperature chamber. I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken. The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D 30MB? 8086? It's obviously not running Windows 10. Why are you still running such an ancient computer? -- Ken |
#24
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Computer needs warming up.
On 8/25/20 9:16 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
[snip] The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D Called "turbo", rather than the normal 4.77MHz. |
#25
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Computer needs warming up.
On 2020-08-26 5:59 a.m., Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote: Carlos E.R. wrote: On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote: Jonathan N. Little wrote: Peter Jason wrote: ... I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken. The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up. :-DDD It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest and hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time. Probably not all that easy to set up. I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer should work best at working temps :-) It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time, so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others afterwards... https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/ That's one long technical article :-) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* RPMÂ*Â*Â* sect s/t trksÂ*Â* surfÂ* skewÂ* seek tÂ* to tÂ* Layout Seagate ST-157AÂ* 44.7 MBÂ*Â* 3602Â*Â* 512Â* 26Â* 3,360Â* 6Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â*Â*Â*Â* 63ms 40umÂ*Â*Â* F or A 3.5″, stepper 63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier one. As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in the curve in HDTune). mmm. Back in the early 1990s The organization where I was Building maintenance and security manager, We had installed a new security system which Included a PDP11/23 Vixen computer purchased and installed by a Houston Texas company and myself. It was equipped with an, ST506 MFM drive which was formatted and loaded with the security software I Texas where the temps were about 105 deg F. It ran fine for about 2 years or so Being a security system it was never shut down The Manitoba Hydro decid to switch us to a new 25,000 volt power line from 13,600 which necessitated a new main yard transformer also. This was set for a Sunday so I was in at 6:00 am and shut down all the building environmental and security systems and they worked till about 7:00 PM and power my main stems up so I started some equipment then punched in the Hex boot code to restart the security system but got ERROR, so I left it and went and did other startup jobs, about a half hour later Tried again an it fired up, In the next week I experimented and found that the system had to run for at least a half hour to warm up to about 100 deg. F for it to boot. So to be safe I ordered a whole new computer from Houston and instructed them to format and install the software at a room temperature of 70 deg. F , I kept the original as a backup. Rene |
#26
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Computer needs warming up.
On 26 Aug 2020 at 15:56:41 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote:
On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote: On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ? wrote: You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else. With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it? It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's text that's super and why wouldn't you want that? First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets. Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference between them. Whooosh. It was a joke! |
#27
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Computer needs warming up.
On 8/26/2020 8:56 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 15:56:41 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote: On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote: On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ? wrote: You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else. With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it? It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's text that's super and why wouldn't you want that? First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets. Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference between them. Whooosh. It was a joke! Yes, I understood that your second sentence was a joke. But I took your first sentence as something you believed, something to help you introduce your joke. -- Ken |
#28
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Computer needs warming up.
On 26 Aug 2020 at 17:06:36 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote:
On 8/26/2020 8:56 AM, Chris wrote: On 26 Aug 2020 at 15:56:41 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote: On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote: On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ? wrote: You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else. With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it? It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's text that's super and why wouldn't you want that? First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets. Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference between them. Whooosh. It was a joke! Yes, I understood that your second sentence was a joke. But I took your first sentence as something you believed, something to help you introduce your joke. It didn't need to be 100% accurate. |
#29
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Computer needs warming up.
On 8/26/2020 9:32 AM, Chris wrote:
On 26 Aug 2020 at 17:06:36 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote: On 8/26/2020 8:56 AM, Chris wrote: On 26 Aug 2020 at 15:56:41 BST, "Ken Blake" wrote: On 8/26/2020 4:09 AM, Chris wrote: On 26 Aug 2020 at 09:05:15 BST, "Peter Jason" wrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 05:20:51 +0100, ? Good Guy ? wrote: You need something that can read hypertext in my posts!! Clearly you won't know this so simply move on and do something else. With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. I've never heard of "hypertext"; what is it and why do I need it? It's like in France they have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. So it's text that's super and why wouldn't you want that? First, note that France is not the only country with hypermarkets. Second, they don't have hypermarkets instead of supermarkets. A hypermarket is different from a supermarket and both can exist in the same country. You might want to do a web search on "hypermarket supermarket." You'll find several web sites that explain the difference between them. Whooosh. It was a joke! Yes, I understood that your second sentence was a joke. But I took your first sentence as something you believed, something to help you introduce your joke. It didn't need to be 100% accurate. OK. -- Ken |
#30
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Computer needs warming up.
On 8/25/2020 10:20 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
Electric Blanket snip * CUT YOUR HEATING BILLS: The Dreamcatcher electric throw allows you to save on your heating bills by turning on your heated blanket and setting your thermostat down on your heating by 10-15 percent. With a fast heat up time and 9 comfort settings for greater control this fantastic blanket only costs an amazingly low 2p an hour to run. The fluffy blanket is just big enough to fit as a overblanket for a double bed. snip Since 0 degrees in any temperature scale, other than absolute, is simply a fixed but arbitrary level what on earth does 10-15 percent even mean? It sounds like a Good Guy and/or M$ boast: it might be interesting but on further thought, useless. -- Jeff Barnett |
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