netbooks

Previously on alt.cellular.verizon, BillW50 said:

Oh did I typed that? I know what I meant was XP SP2. 4GB SSD soldered to
the motherboard meant that unless you are really skilled at soldering
and have the equipment, 4GB is it. I don't think you could install XP
SP2 with an install disc, as 4GB is probably too small with temp files
and all.

Downloading patches from Microsoft does not require an install disk.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #207.
Employees will have conjugal visit trailers which they may use
provided they call in a replacement and sign out on the time sheet.
Given this, anyone caught making out in a closet while leaving their
station unmonitored will be shot.

Previously on alt.cellular.verizon, BillW50 said:

Half of my machines I install updates and half of them I don't. And I
also know most of those so called experts will tell you that without
updates you are at risk. And I too thought this makes total sense.
Although while I backup everything if anything goes wrong, I am still
covered.

The updates do not prevent problems from reaching your computer, they
patch known vulnerabilities for when problem code makes it through your
router, firewall and AV.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

"I hate it when the hero gets the heroine. It's so cliché." (Tempus,
L&C "Soul-Mates")

Previously on alt.cellular.verizon, Gene E. Bloch said:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:34:22 +0000, Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:

Do you use protection?
Maybe not. He claims to have over 30 kids^H^H^H^Hcomputers.

I was wondering who'd pick that up first.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #63.
Bulk trash will be disposed of in incinerators, not compactors. And
they will be kept hot, with none of that nonsense about flames going
through accessible tunnels at predictable intervals.

On 2/21/2013 6:38 PM, Chris S. wrote:

"BillW50" wrote in message
...
On 2/21/2013 3:46 PM, Chris S. wrote:

"Chris S." wrote in message
...
.......... Lots of snippage.............

No not really. I went to school back in the mid-70's to become an
electronic engineer. I remember the instructor early on saying that
many would drop out. At first, that scared me because I thought maybe
I was wasting my time there. Later, it turned out differently. Not
only did I find it super easy, but I had the highest tests scores
they had in the last 5 years.

Later I needed programs that didn't exist at the time. Programming
was a lot like electronic engineering as it is all 1's and 0's at the
lowest level. The big difference was that programming lived in RAM
and not in the hardware (aka like ROM or hardware matrix, etc.).

I lived and breath this stuff back then. Thought about 24/7 and even
dreamt about it. I didn't really like programming too much, as bug
free code meant lots of caffeine and many nights with little or no
sleep. But it was something I was capable of doing.

There was one program I did write that I knew that had a bug. It was
actually a phone answering program. The bug was that it knew the day
that the phone call came in. But it didn't know if the day changed
after the call was completed (at automatically assumed it was the
same day). I planned to fix that one later and I never did. I don't
think many calls come in seconds before midnight anyway and it wasn't
a big priority at the time. But that is the only thing I can think of
that I should have fixed. Oh well, too late now and nobody else
caught that one either. ;-)

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 7 Pro SP1 (x86)

Bill, we talked about this in the past. My BS degree from Purdue (1962)
says "Electrical Engineer". That old... What University College of
Engineering
did you obtain your degree? Just curious.

Chris

Bill,

Sorry, I accidentally deleted your response!

So you don't actually have a degree in engineering?
"Tested against civilian Engineers" seems vague.

Yes I was tested against applicants being hired for Seamans. I wasn't
interested in the job, I was just curious if what I was taught was
measurable against what the civilians learned. Which I was programmed
to believe was far superior. So I wanted to know for sure.

All of my professional life I've come in contact with people
who call themselves "Engineers". It takes a BS degree
from an accredited School of Engineering. Sans that, you
are not.There are certainly a lot of talented Technicians out there.
But please, folks, don't call yourself an Engineer.

Chris

Chris, believe anything that you wish. But the things that I had known
didn't come to light until like 30 years later, belittle all you want.

Bill,

I am certainly not belittling you! It's just that I decry the titling of
oneself
"Engineer" when one is not. I have known Electronic Technicians that were
exceptional, but not graduate engineers. I spent 4+ years at Purdue and
learned more at the National Bureau of Standards, (Now NIST) after I
graduated
than my years in college.

Like it or not, we live in a credentialed society.

Chris

That is interesting and all, but I later subcontracted to Purdue and
taught them many things they didn't even know. And while you feel
anybody that made it through the highest levels the military has to
offer, as nothing important. I personally know as well as others who has
been through the same as the best in the world.

And knowing people like you wouldn't know anything for at least 30 years
later and finishing tops in my class in the last 5 years tells me
differently. There are lots of other stuff I know that only that any a
few knows about that I can't even talk about even today.

So keep believing whatever you want, but I was tested against civilian
education system (for my own peace of mind) and I still blown them away.
They thought the test was hard and I thought the test was just basic
electronics. So while you feel military education means nothing, I have
a lot of respect for them.

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 7 Pro SP1 (x86)

BillW50 wrote on [Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:29:56 -0600]:

Oh yeah, name some programs.

I did a lot of programming through the 80's and early 90's. Mainly
because nobody was writing the programs that I wanted or needed (like
many others back then). And when you as an electronic engineer designed
something new, no software programmer on the planet knew how to program
for it anyway. So I had to do it first.

Oh yeah, name some programs.

dreamt about it. I didn't really like programming too much, as bug free
code meant lots of caffeine and many nights with little or no sleep. But

Yes, too much caffeine and no sleep just screams bug free to me.

Oh you would be surprised how much you could do. The whole computer
revolution started that way. This is what build Apple and Microsoft to
what they are today. Without this, they would have faded long ago. And

And Apple and Microsoft are renowned for writing bug free code?

BillW50 wrote on [Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:30:05 -0600]:
On 2/21/2013 3:46 PM, Chris S. wrote:

Yes I was tested against applicants being hired for Seamans. I wasn't

Don't seamen go to sea?

BillW50 wrote on [Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:55:14 -0600]:
On 2/21/2013 2:53 PM, Justin wrote:
BillW50 wrote on [Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:53:19 -0600]:
On 2/21/2013 1:34 PM, Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:
Previously on alt.cellular.verizon, BillW50 said:

Since updates that require reboots comes out at least every two
months, either you are an irresponsible user or fibbing

Really? Asus sold netbooks with XP2 with 4GB SSD soldered on the
motherboard and it is impossible to update these machines. And Microsoft

What is "XP2"? And what does having an SSD soldered to the board have
to do with installing update patches for the OS?

Oh did I typed that? I know what I meant was XP SP2. 4GB SSD soldered to
the motherboard meant that unless you are really skilled at soldering
and have the equipment, 4GB is it. I don't think you could install XP
SP2 with an install disc, as 4GB is probably too small with temp files
and all.

So, how does that preclude installing windows updates?

Half of my machines I install updates and half of them I don't. And I
also know most of those so called experts will tell you that without
updates you are at risk. And I too thought this makes total sense.
Although while I backup everything if anything goes wrong, I am still
covered.

And having experience with half always updated and half not. The thing
that really protects you is an up to date AV and a firewall (or router).
Updates can actually break things and they have many times. And you can
have a zillion updates and they can't match the protection of an up to
date AV and a firewall (or router). A sandbox doesn't hurt either just
in case. Just those alone blows away anything that any updatse can do.

So, how does having a hard wired SSD preclude you installing updates?

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:10:01 -0600, BillW50 wrote:

One thing that is so hard for me to grasp is English grammar. I also
stuttered a lot when I was just a kid and that probably didn't help
either. That disappeared when I grow up, but grammar is still hard for
me. I mean remembering rules is one thing, but then having exceptions to
rules is totally illogical to me. I often wonder how Spock could explain
the logical reasons for exceptions. So far, I don't get it. Why are they
there?

The thing about grammar and exceptions (and it's *all* languages, not
just English!) is that language is done by people, so stuff like that
creeps in without anyone noticing until you are a kid in grammar school
or junior high trying to make sense of it.

Actually, from what I've seen of classical Latin and Greek (and other
stuff), much of today's languages are relatively orderly. Those
exceptions, or the 12 ways of doing the same thing, tend to get leveled
out (simplified) over long spans of time, even while some new exceptions
creep in...

I'm good at languages (or was when I was younger), but still, my theory
is that all languages are difficult unless you're a native speaker,
i.e., learned it as a toddler. And maybe not even then :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:46:18 -0500, Chris S. wrote:

"Chris S." wrote in message
...
.......... Lots of snippage.............

No not really. I went to school back in the mid-70's to become an
electronic engineer. I remember the instructor early on saying that many
would drop out. At first, that scared me because I thought maybe I was
wasting my time there. Later, it turned out differently. Not only did I
find it super easy, but I had the highest tests scores they had in the
last 5 years.

Later I needed programs that didn't exist at the time. Programming was a
lot like electronic engineering as it is all 1's and 0's at the lowest
level. The big difference was that programming lived in RAM and not in
the hardware (aka like ROM or hardware matrix, etc.).

I lived and breath this stuff back then. Thought about 24/7 and even
dreamt about it. I didn't really like programming too much, as bug free
code meant lots of caffeine and many nights with little or no sleep. But
it was something I was capable of doing.

There was one program I did write that I knew that had a bug. It was
actually a phone answering program. The bug was that it knew the day that
the phone call came in. But it didn't know if the day changed after the
call was completed (at automatically assumed it was the same day). I
planned to fix that one later and I never did. I don't think many calls
come in seconds before midnight anyway and it wasn't a big priority at
the time. But that is the only thing I can think of that I should have
fixed. Oh well, too late now and nobody else caught that one either. ;-)

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 7 Pro SP1 (x86)

Bill, we talked about this in the past. My BS degree from Purdue (1962)
says "Electrical Engineer". That old... What University College of
Engineering
did you obtain your degree? Just curious.

Chris

Bill,

Sorry, I accidentally deleted your response!

So you don't actually have a degree in engineering?
"Tested against civilian Engineers" seems vague.
All of my professional life I've come in contact with people
who call themselves "Engineers". It takes a BS degree
from an accredited School of Engineering. Sans that, you
are not.There are certainly a lot of talented Technicians out there.
But please, folks, don't call yourself an Engineer.

Chris

Well, in my view, an engineer is someone who does engineering. A
certified or credentialed engineer is someone who has a certificate or
credential in engineering.

And sometimes the former is better at it than the latter...

I have seen English majors who were superb programmers and newly minted
bachelors of Computer Science who had no idea what hexadecimal meant.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Chris S. wrote:

"BillW50" wrote in message
...
On 2/21/2013 3:46 PM, Chris S. wrote:

"Chris S." wrote in message
...
.......... Lots of snippage.............

No not really. I went to school back in the mid-70's to become an
electronic engineer. I remember the instructor early on saying that
many would drop out. At first, that scared me because I thought maybe
I was wasting my time there. Later, it turned out differently. Not
only did I find it super easy, but I had the highest tests scores
they had in the last 5 years.

Later I needed programs that didn't exist at the time. Programming
was a lot like electronic engineering as it is all 1's and 0's at the
lowest level. The big difference was that programming lived in RAM
and not in the hardware (aka like ROM or hardware matrix, etc.).

I lived and breath this stuff back then. Thought about 24/7 and even
dreamt about it. I didn't really like programming too much, as bug
free code meant lots of caffeine and many nights with little or no
sleep. But it was something I was capable of doing.

There was one program I did write that I knew that had a bug. It was
actually a phone answering program. The bug was that it knew the day
that the phone call came in. But it didn't know if the day changed
after the call was completed (at automatically assumed it was the
same day). I planned to fix that one later and I never did. I don't
think many calls come in seconds before midnight anyway and it wasn't
a big priority at the time. But that is the only thing I can think of
that I should have fixed. Oh well, too late now and nobody else
caught that one either. ;-)

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 7 Pro SP1 (x86)

Bill, we talked about this in the past. My BS degree from Purdue (1962)
says "Electrical Engineer". That old... What University College of
Engineering
did you obtain your degree? Just curious.

Chris

Bill,

Sorry, I accidentally deleted your response!

So you don't actually have a degree in engineering?
"Tested against civilian Engineers" seems vague.

Yes I was tested against applicants being hired for Seamans. I wasn't
interested in the job, I was just curious if what I was taught was
measurable against what the civilians learned. Which I was programmed
to believe was far superior. So I wanted to know for sure.

All of my professional life I've come in contact with people
who call themselves "Engineers". It takes a BS degree
from an accredited School of Engineering. Sans that, you
are not.There are certainly a lot of talented Technicians out there.
But please, folks, don't call yourself an Engineer.

Chris

Chris, believe anything that you wish. But the things that I had known
didn't come to light until like 30 years later, belittle all you want.

Bill,

I am certainly not belittling you! It's just that I decry the titling of
oneself
"Engineer" when one is not. I have known Electronic Technicians that were
exceptional, but not graduate engineers. I spent 4+ years at Purdue and
learned more at the National Bureau of Standards, (Now NIST) after I
graduated
than my years in college.

Like it or not, we live in a credentialed society.

Chris

At work, we had a promotional path for ETs, which was "Engineer by examination",
where, over a period of years, a Tech could demonstrate design skills and
be paid as an engineer. Someone I worked with, managed to do this, and
he was trustworthy enough, I'd have no problem working with him again.
He and I were doing designs of equal complexity. He even designed
a chip of his own.

The problem with this concept, is no other company will just bend over
backwards, and recognize the achievement. And with the way HR personnel
work, you can be damn sure the pay they'd offer, would not
directly recognize the achievement. (So even if the hiring manager,
liked the guys demonstrated skill set, HR wouldn't fork out the bucks.)

When I first started working, I showed up at work with two degrees.
The HR person looks at his chart and says:

"Oh, you'll be getting an extra $100.00 *per year* for that second degree"

Needless to say, there was a funny smirk on my face when he said that.
I'd fully expected some amusing moments working for the new company,
and the HR guy didn't let me down.

To fix that a year later, my hiring manager put through a salary
increase which he thought would correspond to industry practice,
and "fixed it". You don't run into too many people who'll
go the extra mile for you like that.

Paul

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:46:18 -0500, Chris S. wrote:

"Chris S." wrote in message
...
.......... Lots of snippage.............
No not really. I went to school back in the mid-70's to become an
electronic engineer. I remember the instructor early on saying that many
would drop out. At first, that scared me because I thought maybe I was
wasting my time there. Later, it turned out differently. Not only did I
find it super easy, but I had the highest tests scores they had in the
last 5 years.

Later I needed programs that didn't exist at the time. Programming was a
lot like electronic engineering as it is all 1's and 0's at the lowest
level. The big difference was that programming lived in RAM and not in
the hardware (aka like ROM or hardware matrix, etc.).

I lived and breath this stuff back then. Thought about 24/7 and even
dreamt about it. I didn't really like programming too much, as bug free
code meant lots of caffeine and many nights with little or no sleep. But
it was something I was capable of doing.

There was one program I did write that I knew that had a bug. It was
actually a phone answering program. The bug was that it knew the day that
the phone call came in. But it didn't know if the day changed after the
call was completed (at automatically assumed it was the same day). I
planned to fix that one later and I never did. I don't think many calls
come in seconds before midnight anyway and it wasn't a big priority at
the time. But that is the only thing I can think of that I should have
fixed. Oh well, too late now and nobody else caught that one either. ;-)

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 7 Pro SP1 (x86)
Bill, we talked about this in the past. My BS degree from Purdue (1962)
says "Electrical Engineer". That old... What University College of
Engineering
did you obtain your degree? Just curious.

Chris
Bill,

Sorry, I accidentally deleted your response!

So you don't actually have a degree in engineering?
"Tested against civilian Engineers" seems vague.
All of my professional life I've come in contact with people
who call themselves "Engineers". It takes a BS degree
from an accredited School of Engineering. Sans that, you
are not.There are certainly a lot of talented Technicians out there.
But please, folks, don't call yourself an Engineer.

Chris

Well, in my view, an engineer is someone who does engineering. A
certified or credentialed engineer is someone who has a certificate or
credential in engineering.

And sometimes the former is better at it than the latter...

I have seen English majors who were superb programmers and newly minted
bachelors of Computer Science who had no idea what hexadecimal meant.


Up to a point. There is a legal definition as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_engineer

"Regulation and licensure in engineering is established by various
jurisdictions of the world to protect the ... interests of the general public"

If mission critical infrastructure is involved, at least one
person in the organization has to be a P.Eng and have a stamp
to apply to the work. Basically signing off on the work of
other engineers who didn't bother becoming P.Engs.

When some kid climbs a fence, and gets electrocuted in
a substation, there is a scramble to find the design
document, and find the name of the P.Eng who signed off
on it. And at least a few times, the docs get shredded,
before the lawyers get there :-( So by all means,
claim to be an engineer, but remember to leave town
quickly, if there is trouble. Or have friends in
the shredder department.

Paul

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:11:46 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

I have seen English majors who were superb programmers and newly minted
bachelors of Computer Science who had no idea what hexadecimal meant.

I used to work with a guy who had a sign on his cubicle wall that said,
"Quick! What's 7 in hex?", and he'd get a kick out of people who stared at
the sign in obvious mental torture, trying to figure it out. Granted, these
weren't people who were expected to know, but it was still a bit comical.
Later, he changed to a new sign that I've since seen in multiple places,
"There are only 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those
who don't." I imagine that one caused the same anguish.

--
Paul Miner

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:03:12 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

I'm good at languages (or was when I was younger), but still, my theory
is that all languages are difficult unless you're a native speaker,
i.e., learned it as a toddler.


Yes and no. A language that has either a grammar or a vocabulary (or
even better, both) that's similar to your native language is much
harder to learn than one that's very different. So as far as I'm
concerned, it's much easier for an English speaker to learn Dutch than
Hungarian. But if your native language is Finnish, it's probably the
other way around.



--
Ken Blake

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:11:46 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

I have seen English majors who were superb programmers and newly minted
bachelors of Computer Science who had no idea what hexadecimal meant.


Ditto!

Using myself as an example, I was an English major (for at least part
of my college career; I graduated differently) and, if you will
forgive what sounds like boasting, I was a very good programmer (I
don't want to say I was a *superb* anything).


--
Ken Blake

On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:44:11 -0600, Paul Miner
wrote:


I used to work with a guy who had a sign on his cubicle wall that said,
"Quick! What's 7 in hex?", and he'd get a kick out of people who stared at
the sign in obvious mental torture, trying to figure it out. Granted, these
weren't people who were expected to know, but it was still a bit comical.


I've never seen that one before, but it is funny.


Later, he changed to a new sign that I've since seen in multiple places,
"There are only 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those
who don't." I imagine that one caused the same anguish.


Maybe it did a lot of years ago. But that one has become so common
that a lot of people must be able to understand it these days.


--
Ken Blake