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Word look alike?



 
 
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  #16  
Old September 16th 20, 11:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Word look alike?

In article , Paul
wrote:


That doesn't mean the 32-bit version is slower. It does mean
you can't open documents bigger than 4 GB;


32-bit does not mean that.


usually it does, often 2-3 gb due to os limitations, but not always.

Without dwelling on detail, 32-bit Photoshop could
malloc around 1.8GB of memory.


you mean skipping detail.

32 bit photoshop on windows can address 2gb of physical memory, 3gb
with the /3gb switch and ~3.5gb on mac.

photoshop also implements its own virtual memory system which can go
beyond the 32 bit address space limit of 4gb, up to a theoretical limit
of 4 exabytes for photoshop 7 (20 years old).

If Photoshop had multiple
undo buffers,


it does, and has since version 5, nearly 25 years ago.

then the uncompressed size of images in
memory could be "relatively small" by modern standards.
The 1.8GB value was related to the 2GGB:2GB address
space split, with 2GB for kernel addresses and 2GB for
user-space addresses. And the malloc of memory for the
program is in user space, and in that example, can't be
more than 2GB. And for Photoshop, this number happened
to be 1.8GB. We don't really know what filesizes might
correspond to the availability of that much RAM.
Maybe a 2MB GIF decompresses to fill a 1.8GB space
in memory for example.


no.
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  #17  
Old September 17th 20, 01:24 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
dale
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Posts: 139
Default Word look alike?

On 9/16/2020 2:48 PM, dale wrote:
On 9/16/2020 8:28 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for a simple free (or gratis) program to replace Word. Me,
I use LibreOffice without a doubt, but it is not for me. I need
something simple, that ideally saves in word 97-2003 format by
default, so that the user doesn't have to think.

I was considering AbiWord, but to my dismay it has abandoned the
Windows version for lack of volunteers.

Are there other possibilities I should consider?


If I'm not mistaken, Word comes with the full Office suite; I know two
versions: one that you pay once about 200€ and keep, with no upgrades,
another called Office 365 that is a yearly subscription, and I think I
heard about a gratis version, perhaps online inside a browser. Is this
correct? If that is so, perhaps I should suggest my friend to use that
online version and not spend an euro.


does Google docs apply?

not familiar at all to say


here's a link

https://docs.google.com/

--
Minister Dale Kelly, Ph.D.
https://www.dalekelly.org/
Board Certified Holistic Health Practitioner
Board Certified Alternative Medical Practitioner
  #18  
Old September 17th 20, 02:43 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Word look alike?

Chris wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Chris wrote:

That's also called Office 365 but is online only. The paid for one
allows you to download the desktop applications.


Wrong.


How can it be wrong when you say exactly the same as I did below?


Because your wording is interpreted as:

- Office 365 ... online only. Wrong. With the subscription, you get
the local apps to install on your computer.

- "Paid one", because you differentiated from Office 365, means the
perpetual license (aka standalone).

See? How is that different to what I said?


There's what you meant to say versus what you said. YOU said "Office
365 but is online only". Since that is not true, others figure you mean
their web apps. For "the paid for one" to be different than what Office
365 really is (local apps and web apps) means others figure you meant
their standalone/perpetual license.

Why would you differentiate "Office 365 online only" and "paid" as
though they were different when you claim you meant they were the same?

  #19  
Old September 17th 20, 02:46 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Word look alike?

Pat wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:06:07 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:
Chris wrote:

That's also called Office 365 but is online only. The paid for one
allows you to download the desktop applications.

Wrong.


How can it be wrong when you say exactly the same as I did below?

The 365 subscription gives you the Office components to install
on your own computer. I had an Office 365 (now called Microsoft 365)
subscription for 3 years, and went from the 2016 to 2019 Office
components *installed* on my computer. You do NOT need to be online to
use Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook, etc as you are using the local
programs.

Anyone can use their web apps (via web browser) ... and for free! For
"Office 365 but is online only" then you are talking about their free
web apps only.


See? How is that different to what I said?


He's just nitpicking your choice of words. The product is called
Microsoft 365, but you said Office 365. I call it that myself, but
after his comment, I checked and see they don't actually call it that.


My "nitpicking" is Chris stating "Office 365" (now called Microsoft 365)
is *online only*. That is wrong. Regardless of him attempting to
backtrack, he definitely thought Office 365 was an online-only web app
suite, because then he differentiates it in his later statement from the
"paid" version (for the perpetual license). I went by what he said, not
what he meant to say.
  #20  
Old September 17th 20, 03:17 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Word look alike?

Paul wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

That doesn't mean the 32-bit version is slower. It does mean
you can't open documents bigger than 4 GB;


32-bit does not mean that.

Without dwelling on detail, 32-bit Photoshop could
malloc around 1.8GB of memory. If Photoshop had multiple
undo buffers, then the uncompressed size of images in
memory could be "relatively small" by modern standards.
The 1.8GB value was related to the 2GGB:2GB address
space split, with 2GB for kernel addresses and 2GB for
user-space addresses. And the malloc of memory for the
program is in user space, and in that example, can't be
more than 2GB. And for Photoshop, this number happened
to be 1.8GB. We don't really know what filesizes might
correspond to the availability of that much RAM.
Maybe a 2MB GIF decompresses to fill a 1.8GB space
in memory for example.

There are filesystem primitives, that support 64-bit
operands from a 32 bit call. I can seek to an offset
of 7.8TB and read one megabyte if I want. I can use
open64() and seek64() in a 32-bit application.
The operands are 64-bit operands in the call.

The FAT32 filesystem has a limit to the size of a
single individual file, but this is not what we worry
about with 32-bit applications. The 32-bit application
may not even know or care, that the filesystem is
FAT32 or NTFS (limits or no limits). It's only
if we try to exceed those limits, a write error
occurs. Like take Firefox downloading onto a FAT32
volume - it does not warn us in advance "hey, if this
download is over 4GB, you are screwed". It just
hits 4GB, returns a "too bad, so sad" error and
quits. And it's up to the user to smack their
forehead and declare "doh, dammit, FAT32 limit".

For document processing, 1.8GB of RAM is pretty decent.
The terrible scroll performance will drive you crazy,
before it runs out of RAM.

Paul


How is a 32-bit program going to manage a data block (with the document)
in memory that is over 4 GB in size? Yes, the program can, as you
implied, use a buffer to load part of the over 4 GB file into memory,
but, say, a search that scans the 4+ GB memory for the data block is
going to dump one buffer to move it into later bytes of the file. That
is for direct memory access to the file's contents. Sure, the pagefile
could get used (providing the user hasn't made it too small), but that
means slowed buffer due to paging. 64-bit apps can access far more
memory directly than the 4 GB that 32-bit apps, even after subtracting
the reserved memory space for the OS (and worse if the OP is stealing
some system RAM for the video buffer). Of course, if the OP doesn't
have more than 4 GB of system RAM, the advantages of 64-bit hardware is
lost.

With a 32-bit OS, the largest block of memory accessible as one [data]
block is 4 GB. However, the OP never even mentioned the bitwidth of his
Windows installation. He may not even be able to install the 64-bit
version of the program if he is still running a 32-bitwidth version of
Windows. Why would he still be running a 32-bit version of Windows even
if his hardware supports 64-bits? The 64-bit Windows has only the WOW64
(Windows 32 on Windows 64) emulator that allows running 32-bit programs
on the 64-bit OS. The 32-bit Windows has the WOW32 (Windows 16 on
Windows 32) emulator allowing it to run old 16-bit programs. If the OP
has critical or very important 16-bit apps, he is using 32-bit Windows.
Lots of users complained when they moved to 64-bit Windows to find out
their old 16-bit programs wouldn't run or couldn't even [re]install.

With a 4GB chunk of memory in a data block containing the document, it
would take about a million pages in a document with an average of 4K per
pages before buffering would be needed to chunk around inside the
document to see all parts of it. I've never created nor had to view or
edit a document anywhere near that size in pages, so FreeOffice
available only as a 32-bit app will very likely suit the OP just fine.
However, the hardware and OS protections afforded to 64-bit apps won't
apply to 32-bit apps.

The OS bitwidth info wasn't included in the OP's post or yet in a
followup post. If the OP is on 32-bit Windows, that there is a 64-bit
version of Softmaker payware and only a 32-bit version of FreeOffice is
irrelevant. With 32-bit Windows, the OP will be using either the 32-bit
freeware version (FreeOffice) or the 32-bit version of Softmaker Office
(payware). Peculiarly, while Softmaker makes a 64-bit version of
FreeOffice for other operating systems, they don't have one for Windows.
Why would they bother with a 64-bit app for the other OS'es if there
were no advantage over a 32-bit version? They know the huge marketshare
for their freeware are Windows users, so they lose nothing by providing
the 64-bit version for non-Windows platforms while using the difference
as a lure on Windows to buy their payware version.
  #21  
Old September 17th 20, 08:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Chris
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Posts: 832
Default Word look alike?

VanguardLH wrote:
Chris wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Chris wrote:

That's also called Office 365 but is online only. The paid for one
allows you to download the desktop applications.

Wrong.


How can it be wrong when you say exactly the same as I did below?


Because your wording is interpreted as:

- Office 365 ... online only. Wrong. With the subscription, you get
the local apps to install on your computer.

- "Paid one", because you differentiated from Office 365, means the
perpetual license (aka standalone).


You missed that important "also" in what I said, plus you aggressively
snipped the context. Here's my reply again in context with the OP:

If I'm not mistaken, Word comes with the full Office suite;
I know two versions: one that you pay once about 200€
and keep, with no upgrades, another called Office 365 that is a
yearly subscription, and I think I heard about a gratis version,
perhaps online inside a browser.


That's also called Office 365 but is online only. The paid
for one allows you to download the desktop applications.


The OP already mentioned the paid and free ("gratis") versions of Office
365. My reply was confirming - hence the "also" - what he was uncertain
about, that there was a free version of word available.

See? How is that different to what I said?


There's what you meant to say versus what you said. YOU said "Office
365 but is online only". Since that is not true, others figure you mean
their web apps. For "the paid for one" to be different than what Office
365 really is (local apps and web apps) means others figure you meant
their standalone/perpetual license.


How do you know what others do or don't understand?


Why would you differentiate "Office 365 online only" and "paid" as
though they were different when you claim you meant they were the same?


I "claimed" no such thing.



  #22  
Old September 17th 20, 09:06 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Chris
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Posts: 832
Default Word look alike?

Pat wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:06:07 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:
Chris wrote:

That's also called Office 365 but is online only. The paid for one
allows you to download the desktop applications.

Wrong.


How can it be wrong when you say exactly the same as I did below?

The 365 subscription gives you the Office components to install
on your own computer. I had an Office 365 (now called Microsoft 365)
subscription for 3 years, and went from the 2016 to 2019 Office
components *installed* on my computer. You do NOT need to be online to
use Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook, etc as you are using the local
programs.

Anyone can use their web apps (via web browser) ... and for free! For
"Office 365 but is online only" then you are talking about their free
web apps only.


See? How is that different to what I said?


He's just nitpicking your choice of words. The product is called
Microsoft 365, but you said Office 365. I call it that myself, but
after his comment, I checked and see they don't actually call it that.


You're right they've changed the name. I wasn't aware, thanks, but I don't
think calling it the old name Office 365 is confusing.

  #23  
Old September 17th 20, 10:39 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Chris Elvidge[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Word look alike?

On 16/09/2020 01:28 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for a simple free (or gratis) program to replace Word. Me, I
use LibreOffice without a doubt, but it is not for me. I need something
simple, that ideally saves in word 97-2003 format by default, so that
the user doesn't have to think.

I was considering AbiWord, but to my dismay it has abandoned the Windows
version for lack of volunteers.

Are there other possibilities I should consider?


If I'm not mistaken, Word comes with the full Office suite; I know two
versions: one that you pay once about 200€ and keep, with no upgrades,
another called Office 365 that is a yearly subscription, and I think I
heard about a gratis version, perhaps online inside a browser. Is this
correct? If that is so, perhaps I should suggest my friend to use that
online version and not spend an euro.


Have you looked at Softmaker FreeOffice www.freeoffice.com or WPS Office
www.wps.com


--

Chris Elvidge, England
  #24  
Old September 17th 20, 10:58 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default Word look alike?

On 16/09/2020 15.32, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for a simple free (or gratis) program to replace Word. Me, I
use LibreOffice without a doubt, but it is not for me. I need something
simple, that ideally saves in word 97-2003 format by default, so that
the user doesn't have to think.

I was considering AbiWord, but to my dismay it has abandoned the Windows
version for lack of volunteers.

Are there other possibilities I should consider?


If I'm not mistaken, Word comes with the full Office suite; I know two
versions: one that you pay once about 200€ and keep, with no upgrades,
another called Office 365 that is a yearly subscription, and I think I
heard about a gratis version, perhaps online inside a browser.


That's also called Office 365 but is online only. The paid for one allows
you to download the desktop applications.

Is this
correct? If that is so, perhaps I should suggest my friend to use that
online version and not spend an euro.


If online only is acceptable there's also google docs.


Yes, I suggested that one.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #25  
Old September 17th 20, 11:00 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default Word look alike?

On 16/09/2020 17.10, VanguardLH wrote:
Chris wrote:

That's also called Office 365 but is online only. The paid for one
allows you to download the desktop applications.


Wrong. The 365 subscription gives you the Office components to install
on your own computer. I had an Office 365 (now called Microsoft 365)
subscription for 3 years, and went from the 2016 to 2019 Office
components *installed* on my computer. You do NOT need to be online to
use Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook, etc as you are using the local
programs.

Anyone can use their web apps (via web browser) ... and for free! For
"Office 365 but is online only" then you are talking about their free
web apps only. I did not see the OP wanted local programs, but then the
OP did not mandate web apps were unacceptable. Since the OP mentioned
LibreOffice and AbiWord, those are local/offline programs, so likely he
is looking for similar offline alternatives, and not for web apps, like
Microsoft's free 365 web apps, and neither for Google Docs.


I prefer offline, but online might be acceptable.


If online only is acceptable there's also google docs.


Google does not sell an Office suite you can install locally and
offline. So, yeah, web apps is the only way to use Google Docs through
a web browser.

Microsoft 365 gives you offline programs and their web apps (but the web
apps are available to everyone, and for free). Google Docs is a free
web-based office suite (i.e., web apps suite) that is part of all the
services you get with a Google account (Gmail, Google Voice, Maps,
YouTube, Drive, yadda yadda.



--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #26  
Old September 17th 20, 11:19 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default Word look alike?

On 16/09/2020 14.28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for a simple free (or gratis) program to replace Word. Me, I
use LibreOffice without a doubt, but it is not for me. I need something
simple, that ideally saves in word 97-2003 format by default, so that
the user doesn't have to think.


Thanks people for all the ideas :-)

I like best making LO to default to another format, or using WordPad
instead. The document needs are really simple.


Unfortunately my friend has a friend that says she will install Word for
her. I strongly suspect this means a pirated copy. :-/


The worst of this is that my friend "needs Word" for working at home
because of the pandemic, thus her employer should be providing any
software needed at their expense, but apparently they will not :-/

At least (being the education administration) they could have some kind
of rebate plan, but apparently they don't. If you are curious, they
contracted gmail for group or enterprises, thus google documents is
certainly an enticing idea.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #27  
Old September 17th 20, 11:23 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default Word look alike?

On 17/09/2020 12.19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 16/09/2020 14.28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for a simple free (or gratis) program to replace Word. Me,
I use LibreOffice without a doubt, but it is not for me. I need
something simple, that ideally saves in word 97-2003 format by
default, so that the user doesn't have to think.


Thanks people for all the ideas :-)


Ah, yes, I'm the support guy that drinks the beer or coffee :-D
but not these days with a face mask, we both have risk factors.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #28  
Old September 17th 20, 11:49 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Neil
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Posts: 714
Default Word look alike?

On 9/16/2020 10:17 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

How is a 32-bit program going to manage a data block (with the document)
in memory that is over 4 GB in size? Yes, the program can, as you
implied, use a buffer to load part of the over 4 GB file into memory,
but, say, a search that scans the 4+ GB memory for the data block is
going to dump one buffer to move it into later bytes of the file. That
is for direct memory access to the file's contents.


The techniques used by professional graphics apps in the 1980s made the
size limitation of files based on disc size rather than memory.
PhotoStyler was one such app that only loaded the portion of the file
that filled the screen, and did so in a way that enabled detailed
editing on enlarged portions or viewing the full image at screen
resolution (which was minuscule by today's standards) without any
noticeable delay. After Adobe purchased PhotoStyler, mainly to eliminate
competition for PhotoShop which at the time was quite an inferior
product, they began integrating the programs methods and features into
PhotoShop. So, a 4GB file wouldn't be a problem.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #29  
Old September 17th 20, 03:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_7_]
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Posts: 569
Default Word look alike?

On 9/17/2020 3:23 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 17/09/2020 12.19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 16/09/2020 14.28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for a simple free (or gratis) program to replace Word. Me,
I use LibreOffice without a doubt, but it is not for me. I need
something simple, that ideally saves in word 97-2003 format by
default, so that the user doesn't have to think.


Thanks people for all the ideas :-)


Ah, yes, I'm the support guy that drinks the beer or coffee :-D
but not these days with a face mask, we both have risk factors.



I hate to drink with a face mask. I always prefer to use a glass or cup.


--
Ken
  #30  
Old September 17th 20, 04:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bennett[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Word look alike?

On 9/16/2020 5:28 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for a simple free (or gratis) program to replace Word. Me, I
use LibreOffice without a doubt, but it is not for me. I need something
simple, that ideally saves in word 97-2003 format by default, so that
the user doesn't have to think.

I was considering AbiWord, but to my dismay it has abandoned the Windows
version for lack of volunteers.

Are there other possibilities I should consider?


If I'm not mistaken, Word comes with the full Office suite; I know two
versions: one that you pay once about 200€ and keep, with no upgrades,
another called Office 365 that is a yearly subscription, and I think I
heard about a gratis version, perhaps online inside a browser. Is this
correct? If that is so, perhaps I should suggest my friend to use that
online version and not spend an euro.

Assuming it's a Windows PC at issue, there's always Wordpad (=Write)
though you do have to specify docx as the preferred Save format.
 




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