Free up the vista partition space

Hi, Mervyn.

RC - sorry to have offended you

No offense taken. I'm just trying to be sure whether (a) I explained
something wrongly, or (b) my explanation was not understood. Now it sounds
like there was a little of both. It would be much easier if I could
actually watch over your shoulder and see what's on your screen. ;^}

there is apparently another small partition without any drive letter
called "OEM partition" which seems to only give me a nice "Acer" picture
before getting to windows.

Aha! And does THAT unlettered partition have the "System" label in Disk
Management?

I don't recall that you've mentioned that partition before in this thread.
I've never had an Acer or any other brand-name computer since about 1989. I
buy the motherboard, CPU and other components and assemble the system
myself. Many newsgroup messages from users of HP, Dell and other systems
have mentioned such a hidden partition, often called a "recovery partition",
but I've never dealt with one myself so I often forget about it until
reminded.

If the Acer partition is your System Partition, then THAT is where bootmgr
and the hidden \Boot folder should be. Changes here affect your boot-up
process. Changes to files in other partitions will have no effect. Only
those in the System Partition matter.

To repeat myself:

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it branches to
the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

Please run Disk Management again in Win7. In the Graphical View, please
note ALL the partitions on Disk 0, and ALL the partitions on Disk 1. Note
the "drive" letters AND the NAMES that you've assigned to each of them, as
well as the size of each. And, most important, see which has the System
status in the Volume Listing above?

Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation remains
in C.

Based on this, it appears that ALL you have to do to free up space on your
Drive C: (first partition on your first hard disk) is to delete C:\Windows,
WinXP's Boot Folder. Which is what I said in my latest post:
I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows

Let us know how this works out for you.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
RC - sorry to have offended you - I did read your post very carefully but
I am still hesitant at taking further action because last time I lost
everything!
So this time I booted from the Win7 into the D Drive and according to the
Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation remains
in C. Both C and D are called primary partitions and also part of my
confusion is that there is apparently another small partition without any
drive letter called "OEM partition" which seems to only give me a nice
"Acer" picture before getting to windows.

Are you saying I can format this C: partition with the status as described
or should I just delete the files? I guess I still don't completely
understand whether the MBR are files which can be seen in explorer or are
hidden sectors on one of the partitions?
Mervyn

"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, again, Mervyn.

You mean that I wasted all the time I spent typing that yesterday? You
just ignored it all? :(

Go back and read at least some of it. Especially those paragraphs near
the end that start:
If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM...
and:
But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista...

You didn't tell us which method you used, so we don't know which letter
refers to which partition.

That final paragraph might be the most important
To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk Management
(diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see which volumes
have the System and Boot labels.

Please do that - in Win7 AND in Vista - and then post back and tell us:
In Vista, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot
label?
In Win7, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot label?

What is the NAME and the LETTER of each of those volumes?

I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows - but
I can't be sure because I don't know the answers to those questions.
But - Win7 will not delete its OWN boot folder, so the worse that can
happen is an error message refusing to do that. In which case, all you
have to do is delete C:\Windows. But you should understand WHY this is
true.

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Panic Over! I have taken the easy option of installing XP and then
"upgraded" to Win7 as my DVD would not boot. This time the boot record
appears to be in D: together with Win7. I say appears because I cannot
see any mention of it in C: which now contains the much smaller XP
installation and plenty of spare space.

So I am back to - how can I make sure the boot record is in D: and
to get rid of the XP in C: as I am technically not allowed to have this
copy.

What I really would like to do when all is over is to take a disk image
of D: with the assurance that I can restore my system completely if I
get another total failure. I want C: to be totally for user files
backed up seperately!

Again thanks for everyone who is helping.



"R. C. White" wrote in message
...
Hi, Mervyn.

The Windows startup procedure is quite simple - but it confuses many
users.

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it branches
to the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

That's it!

The confusion comes in the many meanings of simple English words.
:( The computer BOOTS from the SYSTEM partition and keeps its
operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT Volume.

For definitions of these terms, see KB 314470:
Definitions for system volume and boot volume
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/

In the typical system, the first partition on the first HDD serves as
BOTH the System Partition and the Boot Volume for the only Windows
installation. That's what you probably had before installing Win7.
When you installed Win7, you created a new second partition to serve as
the Boot Volume for Win7, but it continued to use the first partition
as the System Partition. (Vista probably calls that second partition
Drive D:; Win7 may or may not agree.) Setup updated the startup files
on that first partition to give you the option of booting Vista or
Win7. When you used the downloaded third-party "partition manager" to
wipe that first partition, it also wiped out those critical startup
files.

NO operating system will obey an order to delete its own Boot Volume or
boot folder (\Windows) or the System Partition. That's like ordering
it to commit suicide or saw off the limb that it's sitting on, and it
won't obey. That's why you had to use a separate "partition manager" to
do the job without booting into Windows at all.

But Vista will happily delete Win7's boot folder - and vice versa. So
the simplest way for you to delete Vista would have been to boot into
Win7 and delete X:\Windows (with X: denoting the letter that Win7 uses
for the System Partition - see the next paragraphs). This would remove
all the Vista operating system files, while leaving the startup files
intact on the System Partition.

If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM, it would have
assigned C: to its own Boot Volume - the new second partition - and
would refer to the first partition as D:, but Vista would still call
that first partition C:. So you could now boot into Win7 (on your new
Drive C and delete D:\Windows to remove Vista but leave the startup
files on D: intact.

But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista and running Win7 Setup
from the Vista desktop, it would have used the same letters that Vista
had assigned; Win7 would see Vista in C:\Windows and Win7 in
D:\Windows. So now you could boot into Win7 on D: and delete C:\Windows
to remove Vista without disturbing the startup files.

To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk Management
(diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see which volumes
have the System and Boot labels.

Like I said: Simple - but confusing. :^}

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Having upgraded from Vista to W7 I now have 2 partitions and neither
OS will
allow me to delete or format the vista partition. I am running a bit
short on space so how do I get rid of the vista partition - Can I
simply just delete the files on this partition? I don't want vista
ever again!
Mervyn

The full description in disk manager for disk 0 is:
No Letter - 7.81 GB Healthy (OEM partition )
C: 33.36 GB NTFS Healthy (system, Active, Primary Partition) Has XP
system
D: 33.35 GB NTFS Healthy ( Boot, Page File Crash Dump Primary Partition)
Has Win7 system

The D partition has got a Boot folder in it the C: does not. I can not get
into the OEM partition at all as it does not show up on "Computer"

So do you confirm I can empty C: which I think I would prefer to do by
deleteing files rather than risk a more powerful approach?
Mervyn


"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, Mervyn.

RC - sorry to have offended you

No offense taken. I'm just trying to be sure whether (a) I explained
something wrongly, or (b) my explanation was not understood. Now it
sounds like there was a little of both. It would be much easier if I
could actually watch over your shoulder and see what's on your screen.
;^}

there is apparently another small partition without any drive letter
called "OEM partition" which seems to only give me a nice "Acer" picture
before getting to windows.

Aha! And does THAT unlettered partition have the "System" label in Disk
Management?

I don't recall that you've mentioned that partition before in this thread.
I've never had an Acer or any other brand-name computer since about 1989.
I buy the motherboard, CPU and other components and assemble the system
myself. Many newsgroup messages from users of HP, Dell and other systems
have mentioned such a hidden partition, often called a "recovery
partition", but I've never dealt with one myself so I often forget about
it until reminded.

If the Acer partition is your System Partition, then THAT is where bootmgr
and the hidden \Boot folder should be. Changes here affect your boot-up
process. Changes to files in other partitions will have no effect. Only
those in the System Partition matter.

To repeat myself:

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it branches to
the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

Please run Disk Management again in Win7. In the Graphical View, please
note ALL the partitions on Disk 0, and ALL the partitions on Disk 1. Note
the "drive" letters AND the NAMES that you've assigned to each of them, as
well as the size of each. And, most important, see which has the System
status in the Volume Listing above?

Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation remains
in C.

Based on this, it appears that ALL you have to do to free up space on your
Drive C: (first partition on your first hard disk) is to delete
C:\Windows, WinXP's Boot Folder. Which is what I said in my latest post:
I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows

Let us know how this works out for you.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
RC - sorry to have offended you - I did read your post very carefully but
I am still hesitant at taking further action because last time I lost
everything!
So this time I booted from the Win7 into the D Drive and according to the
Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation remains
in C. Both C and D are called primary partitions and also part of my
confusion is that there is apparently another small partition without any
drive letter called "OEM partition" which seems to only give me a nice
"Acer" picture before getting to windows.

Are you saying I can format this C: partition with the status as
described or should I just delete the files? I guess I still don't
completely understand whether the MBR are files which can be seen in
explorer or are hidden sectors on one of the partitions?
Mervyn

"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, again, Mervyn.

You mean that I wasted all the time I spent typing that yesterday? You
just ignored it all? :(

Go back and read at least some of it. Especially those paragraphs near
the end that start:
If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM...
and:
But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista...

You didn't tell us which method you used, so we don't know which letter
refers to which partition.

That final paragraph might be the most important
To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk Management
(diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see which volumes
have the System and Boot labels.

Please do that - in Win7 AND in Vista - and then post back and tell us:
In Vista, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot
label?
In Win7, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot
label?

What is the NAME and the LETTER of each of those volumes?

I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows - but
I can't be sure because I don't know the answers to those questions.
But - Win7 will not delete its OWN boot folder, so the worse that can
happen is an error message refusing to do that. In which case, all you
have to do is delete C:\Windows. But you should understand WHY this is
true.

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Panic Over! I have taken the easy option of installing XP and then
"upgraded" to Win7 as my DVD would not boot. This time the boot record
appears to be in D: together with Win7. I say appears because I
cannot see any mention of it in C: which now contains the much smaller
XP installation and plenty of spare space.

So I am back to - how can I make sure the boot record is in D:
and to get rid of the XP in C: as I am technically not allowed to have
this copy.

What I really would like to do when all is over is to take a disk image
of D: with the assurance that I can restore my system completely if I
get another total failure. I want C: to be totally for user files
backed up seperately!

Again thanks for everyone who is helping.



"R. C. White" wrote in message
...
Hi, Mervyn.

The Windows startup procedure is quite simple - but it confuses many
users.

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it
branches to the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

That's it!

The confusion comes in the many meanings of simple English words.
:( The computer BOOTS from the SYSTEM partition and keeps its
operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT Volume.

For definitions of these terms, see KB 314470:
Definitions for system volume and boot volume
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/

In the typical system, the first partition on the first HDD serves as
BOTH the System Partition and the Boot Volume for the only Windows
installation. That's what you probably had before installing Win7.
When you installed Win7, you created a new second partition to serve
as the Boot Volume for Win7, but it continued to use the first
partition as the System Partition. (Vista probably calls that second
partition Drive D:; Win7 may or may not agree.) Setup updated the
startup files on that first partition to give you the option of
booting Vista or Win7. When you used the downloaded third-party
"partition manager" to wipe that first partition, it also wiped out
those critical startup files.

NO operating system will obey an order to delete its own Boot Volume
or boot folder (\Windows) or the System Partition. That's like
ordering it to commit suicide or saw off the limb that it's sitting
on, and it won't obey. That's why you had to use a separate "partition
manager" to do the job without booting into Windows at all.

But Vista will happily delete Win7's boot folder - and vice versa. So
the simplest way for you to delete Vista would have been to boot into
Win7 and delete X:\Windows (with X: denoting the letter that Win7 uses
for the System Partition - see the next paragraphs). This would
remove all the Vista operating system files, while leaving the startup
files intact on the System Partition.

If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM, it would have
assigned C: to its own Boot Volume - the new second partition - and
would refer to the first partition as D:, but Vista would still call
that first partition C:. So you could now boot into Win7 (on your new
Drive C and delete D:\Windows to remove Vista but leave the startup
files on D: intact.

But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista and running Win7 Setup
from the Vista desktop, it would have used the same letters that Vista
had assigned; Win7 would see Vista in C:\Windows and Win7 in
D:\Windows. So now you could boot into Win7 on D: and delete
C:\Windows to remove Vista without disturbing the startup files.

To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk Management
(diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see which volumes
have the System and Boot labels.

Like I said: Simple - but confusing. :^}

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Having upgraded from Vista to W7 I now have 2 partitions and neither
OS will
allow me to delete or format the vista partition. I am running a
bit short on space so how do I get rid of the vista partition - Can
I simply just delete the files on this partition? I don't want vista
ever again!
Mervyn

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:22:07 -0600, "R. C. White"
wrote:

Hi, Mervyn.

RC - sorry to have offended you

there is apparently another small partition without any drive letter
called "OEM partition" which seems to only give me a nice "Acer" picture
before getting to windows.

Aha! And does THAT unlettered partition have the "System" label in Disk
Management?

Hi R. C. and Mervyn
The small partition is an Acer recovery partition. Acer does not
provide "recovery" disks as they used to. Instead there's a custom
partition (usually labeled "PQSERVICE") that's a HPFS rather than NTFS
format and should be HIDDEN. It contains the custom Windows install
files. Pressing ALT-F10 during startup launches a re-install routine
from that hidden patition. Obviously, it should not be messed with.

It is NOT the System partition and is only ever accessed after
pressing ALT-F10.

Hi, Mervyn.

OK! Now we're getting somewhere. We FINALLY know which is the System
Partition! ;)

The D partition has got a Boot folder in it the C: does not.

You still haven't told us the NAMES of those partitions. You probably
haven't named them, which is why you are still using - and being confused
by - drive LETTERS.

If you could reboot into WinXP, you would see that its partition (Drive C:?
The letter might change, but it would still be the second partition, the one
after the no-letter partition.) would then have the Boot label - that status
is for whichever partition has the OS that is CURRENTLY RUNNING, And Drive
C: would still have the System status, because that doesn't depend on which
OS is running.

So do you confirm I can empty C: which I think I would prefer to do by
deleteing files rather than risk a more powerful approach?

YES! Well, don't "empty" C:, because that will wipe out the hidden, system
file "bootmgr" and \Boot folder - and without those, you won't be able to
boot anything.

DELETE C:\WINDOWS!!!

That won't wipe out those hidden files, or any of your data files or program
files in C:\Program Files. But it will delete your entire WinXP Boot Folder
tree, which is C:\Windows and all its subfolders and the files in them -
probably a gigabyte or more of them. My latest WinXP's \Windows folder has
nearly 2 GB in almost 12,000 files and 2,000 folders. (If you don't show
much more free space on C: after this, you might need to empty the Recycle
Bin.)

Then post back and tell us what happened.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
The full description in disk manager for disk 0 is:
No Letter - 7.81 GB Healthy (OEM partition )
C: 33.36 GB NTFS Healthy (system, Active, Primary Partition) Has XP
system
D: 33.35 GB NTFS Healthy ( Boot, Page File Crash Dump Primary Partition)
Has Win7 system

The D partition has got a Boot folder in it the C: does not. I can not
get into the OEM partition at all as it does not show up on "Computer"

So do you confirm I can empty C: which I think I would prefer to do by
deleteing files rather than risk a more powerful approach?
Mervyn


"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, Mervyn.

RC - sorry to have offended you

No offense taken. I'm just trying to be sure whether (a) I explained
something wrongly, or (b) my explanation was not understood. Now it
sounds like there was a little of both. It would be much easier if I
could actually watch over your shoulder and see what's on your screen.
;^}

there is apparently another small partition without any drive letter
called "OEM partition" which seems to only give me a nice "Acer"
picture before getting to windows.

Aha! And does THAT unlettered partition have the "System" label in Disk
Management?

I don't recall that you've mentioned that partition before in this
thread. I've never had an Acer or any other brand-name computer since
about 1989. I buy the motherboard, CPU and other components and assemble
the system myself. Many newsgroup messages from users of HP, Dell and
other systems have mentioned such a hidden partition, often called a
"recovery partition", but I've never dealt with one myself so I often
forget about it until reminded.

If the Acer partition is your System Partition, then THAT is where
bootmgr and the hidden \Boot folder should be. Changes here affect your
boot-up process. Changes to files in other partitions will have no
effect. Only those in the System Partition matter.

To repeat myself:

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it branches
to
the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

Please run Disk Management again in Win7. In the Graphical View, please
note ALL the partitions on Disk 0, and ALL the partitions on Disk 1.
Note the "drive" letters AND the NAMES that you've assigned to each of
them, as well as the size of each. And, most important, see which has
the System status in the Volume Listing above?

Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation remains
in C.

Based on this, it appears that ALL you have to do to free up space on
your Drive C: (first partition on your first hard disk) is to delete
C:\Windows, WinXP's Boot Folder. Which is what I said in my latest post:
I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows

Let us know how this works out for you.

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
RC - sorry to have offended you - I did read your post very carefully
but I am still hesitant at taking further action because last time I
lost everything!
So this time I booted from the Win7 into the D Drive and according to
the Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation
remains in C. Both C and D are called primary partitions and also part
of my confusion is that there is apparently another small partition
without any drive letter called "OEM partition" which seems to only
give me a nice "Acer" picture before getting to windows.

Are you saying I can format this C: partition with the status as
described or should I just delete the files? I guess I still don't
completely understand whether the MBR are files which can be seen in
explorer or are hidden sectors on one of the partitions?
Mervyn

"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, again, Mervyn.

You mean that I wasted all the time I spent typing that yesterday? You
just ignored it all? :(

Go back and read at least some of it. Especially those paragraphs near
the end that start:
If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM...
and:
But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista...

You didn't tell us which method you used, so we don't know which letter
refers to which partition.

That final paragraph might be the most important
To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk
Management (diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see
which volumes have the System and Boot labels.

Please do that - in Win7 AND in Vista - and then post back and tell us:
In Vista, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot
label?
In Win7, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot
label?

What is the NAME and the LETTER of each of those volumes?

I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows -
but I can't be sure because I don't know the answers to those
questions. But - Win7 will not delete its OWN boot folder, so the worse
that can happen is an error message refusing to do that. In which
case, all you have to do is delete C:\Windows. But you should
understand WHY this is true.

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Panic Over! I have taken the easy option of installing XP and then
"upgraded" to Win7 as my DVD would not boot. This time the boot
record appears to be in D: together with Win7. I say appears because
I cannot see any mention of it in C: which now contains the much
smaller XP installation and plenty of spare space.

So I am back to - how can I make sure the boot record is in D:
and to get rid of the XP in C: as I am technically not allowed to have
this copy.

What I really would like to do when all is over is to take a disk
image of D: with the assurance that I can restore my system completely
if I get another total failure. I want C: to be totally for user
files backed up seperately!

Again thanks for everyone who is helping.



"R. C. White" wrote in message
...
Hi, Mervyn.

The Windows startup procedure is quite simple - but it confuses many
users.

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it
branches to the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

That's it!

The confusion comes in the many meanings of simple English words.
:( The computer BOOTS from the SYSTEM partition and keeps its
operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT Volume.

For definitions of these terms, see KB 314470:
Definitions for system volume and boot volume
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/

In the typical system, the first partition on the first HDD serves as
BOTH the System Partition and the Boot Volume for the only Windows
installation. That's what you probably had before installing Win7.
When you installed Win7, you created a new second partition to serve
as the Boot Volume for Win7, but it continued to use the first
partition as the System Partition. (Vista probably calls that second
partition Drive D:; Win7 may or may not agree.) Setup updated the
startup files on that first partition to give you the option of
booting Vista or Win7. When you used the downloaded third-party
"partition manager" to wipe that first partition, it also wiped out
those critical startup files.

NO operating system will obey an order to delete its own Boot Volume
or boot folder (\Windows) or the System Partition. That's like
ordering it to commit suicide or saw off the limb that it's sitting
on, and it won't obey. That's why you had to use a separate
"partition manager" to do the job without booting into Windows at
all.

But Vista will happily delete Win7's boot folder - and vice versa.
So the simplest way for you to delete Vista would have been to boot
into Win7 and delete X:\Windows (with X: denoting the letter that
Win7 uses for the System Partition - see the next paragraphs). This
would remove all the Vista operating system files, while leaving the
startup files intact on the System Partition.

If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM, it would have
assigned C: to its own Boot Volume - the new second partition - and
would refer to the first partition as D:, but Vista would still call
that first partition C:. So you could now boot into Win7 (on your
new Drive C and delete D:\Windows to remove Vista but leave the
startup files on D: intact.

But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista and running Win7
Setup from the Vista desktop, it would have used the same letters
that Vista had assigned; Win7 would see Vista in C:\Windows and Win7
in D:\Windows. So now you could boot into Win7 on D: and delete
C:\Windows to remove Vista without disturbing the startup files.

To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk
Management (diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see
which volumes have the System and Boot labels.

Like I said: Simple - but confusing. :^}

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Having upgraded from Vista to W7 I now have 2 partitions and neither
OS will
allow me to delete or format the vista partition. I am running a
bit short on space so how do I get rid of the vista partition -
Can I simply just delete the files on this partition? I don't want
vista ever again!
Mervyn

Hi, OSIRIS.

Thanks for that information. It confirms what I thought I understood after
Mervyn's latest post, in which he told us that the first partition AFTER the
unlettered partition has the System status.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"OSIRIS" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:22:07 -0600, "R. C. White"
wrote:

Hi, Mervyn.

RC - sorry to have offended you

there is apparently another small partition without any drive letter
called "OEM partition" which seems to only give me a nice "Acer"
picture
before getting to windows.

Aha! And does THAT unlettered partition have the "System" label in Disk
Management?

Hi R. C. and Mervyn
The small partition is an Acer recovery partition. Acer does not
provide "recovery" disks as they used to. Instead there's a custom
partition (usually labeled "PQSERVICE") that's a HPFS rather than NTFS
format and should be HIDDEN. It contains the custom Windows install
files. Pressing ALT-F10 during startup launches a re-install routine
from that hidden patition. Obviously, it should not be messed with.

It is NOT the System partition and is only ever accessed after
pressing ALT-F10.

All and especially RC - I now have an almost empty C: drive without windows
XP and the booting is fine straight into Win7 after giving it a zero delay
on the boot options.
The objective has been met - I have some space and the next thing I will do
is create a disk image and boot disk just in case this ever happens again.
Thanks to all
Mervyn


"R. C. White" wrote in message
...
Hi, Mervyn.

OK! Now we're getting somewhere. We FINALLY know which is the System
Partition! ;)

The D partition has got a Boot folder in it the C: does not.

You still haven't told us the NAMES of those partitions. You probably
haven't named them, which is why you are still using - and being confused
by - drive LETTERS.

If you could reboot into WinXP, you would see that its partition (Drive
C:? The letter might change, but it would still be the second partition,
the one after the no-letter partition.) would then have the Boot label -
that status is for whichever partition has the OS that is CURRENTLY
RUNNING, And Drive C: would still have the System status, because that
doesn't depend on which OS is running.

So do you confirm I can empty C: which I think I would prefer to do by
deleteing files rather than risk a more powerful approach?

YES! Well, don't "empty" C:, because that will wipe out the hidden,
system file "bootmgr" and \Boot folder - and without those, you won't be
able to boot anything.

DELETE C:\WINDOWS!!!

That won't wipe out those hidden files, or any of your data files or
program files in C:\Program Files. But it will delete your entire WinXP
Boot Folder tree, which is C:\Windows and all its subfolders and the files
in them - probably a gigabyte or more of them. My latest WinXP's \Windows
folder has nearly 2 GB in almost 12,000 files and 2,000 folders. (If you
don't show much more free space on C: after this, you might need to empty
the Recycle Bin.)

Then post back and tell us what happened.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
The full description in disk manager for disk 0 is:
No Letter - 7.81 GB Healthy (OEM partition )
C: 33.36 GB NTFS Healthy (system, Active, Primary Partition) Has XP
system
D: 33.35 GB NTFS Healthy ( Boot, Page File Crash Dump Primary Partition)
Has Win7 system

The D partition has got a Boot folder in it the C: does not. I can not
get into the OEM partition at all as it does not show up on "Computer"

So do you confirm I can empty C: which I think I would prefer to do by
deleteing files rather than risk a more powerful approach?
Mervyn


"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, Mervyn.

RC - sorry to have offended you

No offense taken. I'm just trying to be sure whether (a) I explained
something wrongly, or (b) my explanation was not understood. Now it
sounds like there was a little of both. It would be much easier if I
could actually watch over your shoulder and see what's on your screen.
;^}

there is apparently another small partition without any drive letter
called "OEM partition" which seems to only give me a nice "Acer"
picture before getting to windows.

Aha! And does THAT unlettered partition have the "System" label in Disk
Management?

I don't recall that you've mentioned that partition before in this
thread. I've never had an Acer or any other brand-name computer since
about 1989. I buy the motherboard, CPU and other components and assemble
the system myself. Many newsgroup messages from users of HP, Dell and
other systems have mentioned such a hidden partition, often called a
"recovery partition", but I've never dealt with one myself so I often
forget about it until reminded.

If the Acer partition is your System Partition, then THAT is where
bootmgr and the hidden \Boot folder should be. Changes here affect your
boot-up process. Changes to files in other partitions will have no
effect. Only those in the System Partition matter.

To repeat myself:

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it branches
to
the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

Please run Disk Management again in Win7. In the Graphical View, please
note ALL the partitions on Disk 0, and ALL the partitions on Disk 1.
Note the "drive" letters AND the NAMES that you've assigned to each of
them, as well as the size of each. And, most important, see which has
the System status in the Volume Listing above?

Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation
remains in C.

Based on this, it appears that ALL you have to do to free up space on
your Drive C: (first partition on your first hard disk) is to delete
C:\Windows, WinXP's Boot Folder. Which is what I said in my latest
post:
I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows

Let us know how this works out for you.

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
RC - sorry to have offended you - I did read your post very carefully
but I am still hesitant at taking further action because last time I
lost everything!
So this time I booted from the Win7 into the D Drive and according to
the Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation
remains in C. Both C and D are called primary partitions and also part
of my confusion is that there is apparently another small partition
without any drive letter called "OEM partition" which seems to only
give me a nice "Acer" picture before getting to windows.

Are you saying I can format this C: partition with the status as
described or should I just delete the files? I guess I still don't
completely understand whether the MBR are files which can be seen in
explorer or are hidden sectors on one of the partitions?
Mervyn

"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, again, Mervyn.

You mean that I wasted all the time I spent typing that yesterday?
You just ignored it all? :(

Go back and read at least some of it. Especially those paragraphs
near the end that start:
If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM...
and:
But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista...

You didn't tell us which method you used, so we don't know which
letter refers to which partition.

That final paragraph might be the most important
To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk
Management (diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see
which volumes have the System and Boot labels.

Please do that - in Win7 AND in Vista - and then post back and tell
us:
In Vista, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot
label?
In Win7, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot
label?

What is the NAME and the LETTER of each of those volumes?

I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows -
but I can't be sure because I don't know the answers to those
questions. But - Win7 will not delete its OWN boot folder, so the
worse that can happen is an error message refusing to do that. In
which case, all you have to do is delete C:\Windows. But you should
understand WHY this is true.

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Panic Over! I have taken the easy option of installing XP and then
"upgraded" to Win7 as my DVD would not boot. This time the boot
record appears to be in D: together with Win7. I say appears
because I cannot see any mention of it in C: which now contains the
much smaller XP installation and plenty of spare space.

So I am back to - how can I make sure the boot record is in D:
and to get rid of the XP in C: as I am technically not allowed to
have this copy.

What I really would like to do when all is over is to take a disk
image of D: with the assurance that I can restore my system
completely if I get another total failure. I want C: to be totally
for user files backed up seperately!

Again thanks for everyone who is helping.



"R. C. White" wrote in message
...
Hi, Mervyn.

The Windows startup procedure is quite simple - but it confuses many
users.

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it
branches to the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

That's it!

The confusion comes in the many meanings of simple English words.
:( The computer BOOTS from the SYSTEM partition and keeps its
operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT Volume.

For definitions of these terms, see KB 314470:
Definitions for system volume and boot volume
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/

In the typical system, the first partition on the first HDD serves
as BOTH the System Partition and the Boot Volume for the only
Windows installation. That's what you probably had before installing
Win7. When you installed Win7, you created a new second partition to
serve as the Boot Volume for Win7, but it continued to use the first
partition as the System Partition. (Vista probably calls that second
partition Drive D:; Win7 may or may not agree.) Setup updated the
startup files on that first partition to give you the option of
booting Vista or Win7. When you used the downloaded third-party
"partition manager" to wipe that first partition, it also wiped out
those critical startup files.

NO operating system will obey an order to delete its own Boot Volume
or boot folder (\Windows) or the System Partition. That's like
ordering it to commit suicide or saw off the limb that it's sitting
on, and it won't obey. That's why you had to use a separate
"partition manager" to do the job without booting into Windows at
all.

But Vista will happily delete Win7's boot folder - and vice versa.
So the simplest way for you to delete Vista would have been to boot
into Win7 and delete X:\Windows (with X: denoting the letter that
Win7 uses for the System Partition - see the next paragraphs). This
would remove all the Vista operating system files, while leaving the
startup files intact on the System Partition.

If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM, it would
have assigned C: to its own Boot Volume - the new second partition -
and would refer to the first partition as D:, but Vista would still
call that first partition C:. So you could now boot into Win7 (on
your new Drive C and delete D:\Windows to remove Vista but leave
the startup files on D: intact.

But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista and running Win7
Setup from the Vista desktop, it would have used the same letters
that Vista had assigned; Win7 would see Vista in C:\Windows and Win7
in D:\Windows. So now you could boot into Win7 on D: and delete
C:\Windows to remove Vista without disturbing the startup files.

To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk
Management (diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see
which volumes have the System and Boot labels.

Like I said: Simple - but confusing. :^}

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Having upgraded from Vista to W7 I now have 2 partitions and
neither OS will
allow me to delete or format the vista partition. I am running a
bit short on space so how do I get rid of the vista partition - Can
I simply just delete the files on this partition? I don't want
vista ever again!
Mervyn

Hi, Mervyn.

Congratulations! It's been a bumpy ride, but I'm glad you got here. ;)

Thanks for the feedback. Enjoy! You've earned it.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
All and especially RC - I now have an almost empty C: drive without
windows XP and the booting is fine straight into Win7 after giving it a
zero delay on the boot options.
The objective has been met - I have some space and the next thing I will
do is create a disk image and boot disk just in case this ever happens
again.
Thanks to all
Mervyn


"R. C. White" wrote in message
...
Hi, Mervyn.

OK! Now we're getting somewhere. We FINALLY know which is the System
Partition! ;)

The D partition has got a Boot folder in it the C: does not.

You still haven't told us the NAMES of those partitions. You probably
haven't named them, which is why you are still using - and being confused
by - drive LETTERS.

If you could reboot into WinXP, you would see that its partition (Drive
C:? The letter might change, but it would still be the second partition,
the one after the no-letter partition.) would then have the Boot label -
that status is for whichever partition has the OS that is CURRENTLY
RUNNING, And Drive C: would still have the System status, because that
doesn't depend on which OS is running.

So do you confirm I can empty C: which I think I would prefer to do by
deleteing files rather than risk a more powerful approach?

YES! Well, don't "empty" C:, because that will wipe out the hidden,
system file "bootmgr" and \Boot folder - and without those, you won't be
able to boot anything.

DELETE C:\WINDOWS!!!

That won't wipe out those hidden files, or any of your data files or
program files in C:\Program Files. But it will delete your entire WinXP
Boot Folder tree, which is C:\Windows and all its subfolders and the
files in them - probably a gigabyte or more of them. My latest WinXP's
\Windows folder has nearly 2 GB in almost 12,000 files and 2,000 folders.
(If you don't show much more free space on C: after this, you might need
to empty the Recycle Bin.)

Then post back and tell us what happened.

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
The full description in disk manager for disk 0 is:
No Letter - 7.81 GB Healthy (OEM partition )
C: 33.36 GB NTFS Healthy (system, Active, Primary Partition) Has XP
system
D: 33.35 GB NTFS Healthy ( Boot, Page File Crash Dump Primary Partition)
Has Win7 system

The D partition has got a Boot folder in it the C: does not. I can not
get into the OEM partition at all as it does not show up on "Computer"

So do you confirm I can empty C: which I think I would prefer to do by
deleteing files rather than risk a more powerful approach?
Mervyn


"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, Mervyn.

RC - sorry to have offended you

No offense taken. I'm just trying to be sure whether (a) I explained
something wrongly, or (b) my explanation was not understood. Now it
sounds like there was a little of both. It would be much easier if I
could actually watch over your shoulder and see what's on your screen.
;^}

there is apparently another small partition without any drive letter
called "OEM partition" which seems to only give me a nice "Acer"
picture before getting to windows.

Aha! And does THAT unlettered partition have the "System" label in
Disk Management?

I don't recall that you've mentioned that partition before in this
thread. I've never had an Acer or any other brand-name computer since
about 1989. I buy the motherboard, CPU and other components and
assemble the system myself. Many newsgroup messages from users of HP,
Dell and other systems have mentioned such a hidden partition, often
called a "recovery partition", but I've never dealt with one myself so
I often forget about it until reminded.

If the Acer partition is your System Partition, then THAT is where
bootmgr and the hidden \Boot folder should be. Changes here affect
your boot-up process. Changes to files in other partitions will have
no effect. Only those in the System Partition matter.

To repeat myself:

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it branches
to
the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

Please run Disk Management again in Win7. In the Graphical View,
please note ALL the partitions on Disk 0, and ALL the partitions on
Disk 1. Note the "drive" letters AND the NAMES that you've assigned to
each of them, as well as the size of each. And, most important, see
which has the System status in the Volume Listing above?

Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation
remains in C.

Based on this, it appears that ALL you have to do to free up space on
your Drive C: (first partition on your first hard disk) is to delete
C:\Windows, WinXP's Boot Folder. Which is what I said in my latest
post:
I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows

Let us know how this works out for you.

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
RC - sorry to have offended you - I did read your post very carefully
but I am still hesitant at taking further action because last time I
lost everything!
So this time I booted from the Win7 into the D Drive and according to
the Win7 computer management the Boot is in D. The XP installation
remains in C. Both C and D are called primary partitions and also
part of my confusion is that there is apparently another small
partition without any drive letter called "OEM partition" which seems
to only give me a nice "Acer" picture before getting to windows.

Are you saying I can format this C: partition with the status as
described or should I just delete the files? I guess I still don't
completely understand whether the MBR are files which can be seen in
explorer or are hidden sectors on one of the partitions?
Mervyn

"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, again, Mervyn.

You mean that I wasted all the time I spent typing that yesterday?
You just ignored it all? :(

Go back and read at least some of it. Especially those paragraphs
near the end that start:
If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM...
and:
But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista...

You didn't tell us which method you used, so we don't know which
letter refers to which partition.

That final paragraph might be the most important
To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk
Management (diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see
which volumes have the System and Boot labels.

Please do that - in Win7 AND in Vista - and then post back and tell
us:
In Vista, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot
label?
In Win7, which volume has the System label, and which has the Boot
label?

What is the NAME and the LETTER of each of those volumes?

I THINK all you have to do is boot into Win7 and Delete C:\Windows -
but I can't be sure because I don't know the answers to those
questions. But - Win7 will not delete its OWN boot folder, so the
worse that can happen is an error message refusing to do that. In
which case, all you have to do is delete C:\Windows. But you should
understand WHY this is true.

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Panic Over! I have taken the easy option of installing XP and then
"upgraded" to Win7 as my DVD would not boot. This time the boot
record appears to be in D: together with Win7. I say appears
because I cannot see any mention of it in C: which now contains the
much smaller XP installation and plenty of spare space.

So I am back to - how can I make sure the boot record is in D:
and to get rid of the XP in C: as I am technically not allowed to
have this copy.

What I really would like to do when all is over is to take a disk
image of D: with the assurance that I can restore my system
completely if I get another total failure. I want C: to be
totally for user files backed up seperately!

Again thanks for everyone who is helping.



"R. C. White" wrote in message
...
Hi, Mervyn.

The Windows startup procedure is quite simple - but it confuses
many users.

Boot-up ALWAYS starts in the SYSTEM PARTITION. From there, it
branches to the BOOT VOLUME - wherever that may be.

That's it!

The confusion comes in the many meanings of simple English words.
:( The computer BOOTS from the SYSTEM partition and keeps its
operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT Volume.

For definitions of these terms, see KB 314470:
Definitions for system volume and boot volume
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/

In the typical system, the first partition on the first HDD serves
as BOTH the System Partition and the Boot Volume for the only
Windows installation. That's what you probably had before
installing Win7. When you installed Win7, you created a new second
partition to serve as the Boot Volume for Win7, but it continued to
use the first partition as the System Partition. (Vista probably
calls that second partition Drive D:; Win7 may or may not agree.)
Setup updated the startup files on that first partition to give you
the option of booting Vista or Win7. When you used the downloaded
third-party "partition manager" to wipe that first partition, it
also wiped out those critical startup files.

NO operating system will obey an order to delete its own Boot
Volume or boot folder (\Windows) or the System Partition. That's
like ordering it to commit suicide or saw off the limb that it's
sitting on, and it won't obey. That's why you had to use a separate
"partition manager" to do the job without booting into Windows at
all.

But Vista will happily delete Win7's boot folder - and vice versa.
So the simplest way for you to delete Vista would have been to boot
into Win7 and delete X:\Windows (with X: denoting the letter that
Win7 uses for the System Partition - see the next paragraphs).
This would remove all the Vista operating system files, while
leaving the startup files intact on the System Partition.

If you installed Win7 by booting from the Win7 DVD-ROM, it would
have assigned C: to its own Boot Volume - the new second
partition - and would refer to the first partition as D:, but Vista
would still call that first partition C:. So you could now boot
into Win7 (on your new Drive C and delete D:\Windows to remove
Vista but leave the startup files on D: intact.

But if you installed Win7 by booting into Vista and running Win7
Setup from the Vista desktop, it would have used the same letters
that Vista had assigned; Win7 would see Vista in C:\Windows and
Win7 in D:\Windows. So now you could boot into Win7 on D: and
delete C:\Windows to remove Vista without disturbing the startup
files.

To see what letters your current OS has installed, use Disk
Management (diskmgmt.msc). And look in the Status column to see
which volumes have the System and Boot labels.

Like I said: Simple - but confusing. :^}

RC

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote in message
...
Having upgraded from Vista to W7 I now have 2 partitions and
neither OS will
allow me to delete or format the vista partition. I am running a
bit short on space so how do I get rid of the vista partition -
Can I simply just delete the files on this partition? I don't
want vista ever again!
Mervyn