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How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup" folder) ?



 
 
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  #31  
Old November 16th 20, 08:08 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Jeff Barnett[_2_]
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Posts: 298
Default How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup"folder) ?

On 11/16/2020 9:25 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
JJ,

Keep in mind that Shutdown is not same as Log-off, or vice versa.


I know. I've been fighting with myself about what I should name the new
directory : "shutdown" or "OnLogoff". The first matches the "startup" one
better*, the second is /way/ closer to the truth.

*if you have a good, opposite name to "startup" than please do mention it.


The opposite of "start" is "end". So it seems that one of "endup" or
"enddown" are to be considered and of course the ever popular
"startdown". In truth, I don't like any of these.

In my case its a bit moot though as I never logoff but /always/ power the
machine down.

Or... use the Fast User Switching to logon another user. Thus triggers
the Logon scripts without triggering Logoff script for any user. Logoff
scripts will be triggered only when a user actually logs off.

--
Jeff Barnett
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  #32  
Old November 16th 20, 08:18 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,302
Default How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup" folder) ?

Jeff,

The opposite of "start" is "end". So it seems that one of "endup" or
"enddown" are to be considered and of course the ever popular "startdown".
In truth, I don't like any of these.


Same here. But while reading the "xxxdown" names the name "winddown" popped
into my mind. I'll have to think about that one (trying to figure out how
long it will be before I forget what its supposed to mean ...).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser






"Jeff Barnett" wrote in message
...
On 11/16/2020 9:25 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
JJ,

Keep in mind that Shutdown is not same as Log-off, or vice versa.


I know. I've been fighting with myself about what I should name the new
directory : "shutdown" or "OnLogoff". The first matches the "startup"
one
better*, the second is /way/ closer to the truth.

*if you have a good, opposite name to "startup" than please do mention
it.


The opposite of "start" is "end". So it seems that one of "endup" or
"enddown" are to be considered and of course the ever popular "startdown".
In truth, I don't like any of these.

In my case its a bit moot though as I never logoff but /always/ power the
machine down.

Or... use the Fast User Switching to logon another user. Thus triggers
the Logon scripts without triggering Logoff script for any user. Logoff
scripts will be triggered only when a user actually logs off.

--
Jeff Barnett



  #33  
Old November 18th 20, 02:49 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
JJ[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 46
Default How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup" folder) ?

On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:25:29 +0100, R.Wieser wrote:
I know. I've been fighting with myself about what I should name the new
directory : "shutdown" or "OnLogoff". The first matches the "startup" one
better*, the second is /way/ closer to the truth.

*if you have a good, opposite name to "startup" than please do mention it.

In my case its a bit moot though as I never logoff but /always/ power the
machine down.


Well, the term "Shutdown" is more appropriate for a computer shutdown rather
than a user log off. But if you never log on with different user and use
multiple user sessions at the same time, it shouldn't matter.

Though if you need to have multiple folders, one for computer shutdown, and
one for user log off, I'd suggest using "Shutdown" for computer shutdown,
and "Logoff" for user log off. Or... "System Shutdown" for computer
shutdown, and "Shutdown" for user log off - so that if you ever need a
folder for the actual computer startup event, it can be "System Startup".
  #34  
Old November 18th 20, 07:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,302
Default How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup" folder) ?

JJ,

Well, the term "Shutdown" is more appropriate for a computer shutdown
rather than a user log off. But if you never log on with different user
and
use multiple user sessions at the same time, it shouldn't matter.


Indeed on both. The name still irks me though. Luckily Jeff Barnett bumped
me enough to come up with a different name: winddown.

Though if you need to have multiple folders, one for computer shutdown,
and one for user log off, I'd suggest using "Shutdown" for computer
shutdown, and "Logoff" for user log off.


Absolutily.

I've been mulling that latter name too, but it simply did not match the
already existing "startup" name.

Damn, I just realised : the "startup" folder has got nothing to do with a
user. IOW, I might just go for the full monty, and create folders for both
the "logon" as well as the "logoff" events (and leave the "startup" folder
alone). Feels odd though, abandoning that "startup" folder (I've got a few
things in it).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #35  
Old November 19th 20, 04:39 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
JJ[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 46
Default How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup" folder) ?

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 19:03:25 +0100, R.Wieser wrote:
Feels odd though, abandoning that "startup" folder (I've got a few
things in it).


You don't have to. If you accept that the term "startup" alone in the Start
Menu refers to the user log-on (and thus keep Microsoft's inaccurate folder
naming), then logically the term "shutdown" alone would refer to the user
log-off. Then for the actual computer/system shutdown folders, use the
"system" or "computer" prefix.

Keep in mind though, the Logon scripts are run by USERINIT.EXE, while the
programs in the Start Menu's Startup folder are run by the desktop/shell
process (EXPLORER.EXE). So, if the shell happens to be replaced with e.g.
CMD.EXE or something else which is not aware of Start Menu's Startup folder,
the programs in the Start Menu's Startup folder won't be run.
  #36  
Old November 19th 20, 07:00 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,302
Default How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup" folder) ?

JJ,

If you accept that the term "startup" alone in the Start
Menu refers to the user log-on (and thus keep Microsoft's
inaccurate folder naming)


Wait, what ? I somehow got the idea that the "startup" folder was
connected to the system boot process, but here you seem to indicate that its
actually connected to the users logon process. If thats so, are the
(gpedit) "logon" scripts and "startup" folder essentially not doing the
same thing ?

Then for the actual computer/system shutdown folders, use
the "system" or "computer" prefix.


Yeah, you mentioned that before, and it does sound workable. I'll have to
keep it in mind.

Keep in mind though, the Logon scripts are run by USERINIT.EXE,
while the programs in the Start Menu's Startup folder are run by the
desktop/shell process (EXPLORER.EXE).


I don't think that that will ever be something I have to take into
consideration, but thanks for mentioning it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

P.s.
I did some testing on the ShellExecuteEx function with the
SEE_MASK_NOCLOSEPROCESS flag, and it is what is actually not returning a
process handle when a shortcut is run - regardless of what the target is.



  #37  
Old November 20th 20, 08:10 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,302
Default How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup" folder) ?

JJ,

the Start Menu's Startup folder are run by the desktop/shell
process (EXPLORER.EXE).


Something about that :

while playing around with an iconoverlay I've several times killed the
explorer.exe process and restarted it (both to release the just unregistered
iconoverlay dll as well as to refresh the icons). I've got programs in the
startup folder creating an icon in the systray (at the right, next to the
clock). Those do not re-appear after restarting the explorer.exe process,
though your above sounds like they should. Any idea why ?

Or, said otherwise : are you sure that running the startup folders contents
is part of the explorer.exe process.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #38  
Old November 21st 20, 10:12 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
JJ[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 46
Default How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup" folder) ?

On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 08:10:17 +0100, R.Wieser wrote:
JJ,

the Start Menu's Startup folder are run by the desktop/shell
process (EXPLORER.EXE).


Something about that :

while playing around with an iconoverlay I've several times killed the
explorer.exe process and restarted it (both to release the just unregistered
iconoverlay dll as well as to refresh the icons). I've got programs in the
startup folder creating an icon in the systray (at the right, next to the
clock). Those do not re-appear after restarting the explorer.exe process,
though your above sounds like they should. Any idea why ?


I could only guess that EXPLORER.EXE can know when it should execute the
programs in the Start Menu's Startup folder, not not. e.g. if it's executed
by USERINIT.EXE or not. It may not be the actual case, but it's one of the
many possibilities.

Or, said otherwise : are you sure that running the startup folders contents
is part of the explorer.exe process.


Yes, I'm sure of it. It applies to all Windows version.

The Start Menu's Startup folder is a conversion of the old Win3.x/NT3.x
Program Manager (PROGMAN.EXE) "Startup" group - which is not a directory in
the file system. That too, if the shell is changed to other than
PROGMAN.EXE, none of the programs listed in the Startup group will be
executed.

In XP, you can test it yourself by changing the shell to CMD.EXE. Note:
don't use anything else which doesn't have the capability to run any other
program (e.g. Calculator). This is to make sure that you can change the
shell back to EXPLORER.EXE. Also... I'd suggest disabling the Welcome Screen
feature from the Users control panel. Otherwise, it'll stuck in the system
startup screen with the big "welcome" text on it, and have to press
CTRL+ALT+DEL to get to the normal screen where it shows the CMD window (as
the shell) and no taskbar.
  #39  
Old November 21st 20, 10:12 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
JJ[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 46
Default How to add a "Shutdown" folder (the opposite of the "startup" folder) ?

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 19:00:20 +0100, R.Wieser wrote:
JJ,

If you accept that the term "startup" alone in the Start
Menu refers to the user log-on (and thus keep Microsoft's
inaccurate folder naming)


Wait, what ? I somehow got the idea that the "startup" folder was
connected to the system boot process, but here you seem to indicate that its
actually connected to the users logon process. If thats so, are the
(gpedit) "logon" scripts and "startup" folder essentially not doing the
same thing ?


No. They are entirely separate.

P.s.
I did some testing on the ShellExecuteEx function with the
SEE_MASK_NOCLOSEPROCESS flag, and it is what is actually not returning a
process handle when a shortcut is run - regardless of what the target is.


As I mentioned in microsoft.public.scripting.vbscript, I could only say that
it's a bug in NT5.x.
 




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