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#16
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AV spying. Surprised?
In message , David
writes: On 29/01/2020 00:08, Mayayana wrote: "David" wrote | It has total control. It's routinely allowed to call | home for large updates. And it's assumed to be | in the role of protecting you from intrusion. | | That's a VERY interesting and telling comment, Mayayana! ;-) | | Would you care to elaborate? ?? It's just fact. AV needs full control in order to protect. It's typical these days to issue several large updates per day. And the point of AV is to protect your system, no? What if the developer has 'gone rogue' and invited you to download and install a 'free trial' of AV software which is NOT designed to protect you? How would a layman ever know that such a programme was actually working *against* the users best interests? He wouldn't. Can't say I've ever seen an example, but I imagine there _is_ a class of malware that could be described as fake AV. (AVE? Awira? Malwarebites? [With apologies if any of those exist and are innocuous (-:!]) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Science isn't about being right every time, or even most of the time. It is about being more right over time and fixing what it got wrong. - Scott Adams, 2015-2-2 |
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#17
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AV spying. Surprised?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 09:12:12 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
"mechanic" wrote | On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 18:39:28 -0500, Mayayana wrote: | | Even car companies are now claiming their customers have given | them permission to spy on their driving. | | Cite please? If you're actually interested you could have found out plenty with just a 5 minute search, rather than just demanding proof. Two links: Instead of this offensive bluster with some obscure references, you might care to peruse the GDPR which those of us unfortunate enough to not being born in the USA live by. Then you might understand that 'informed consent' is what we like to see before our data is used by others, after that they can do what they will with it. Your claim that car makers say 'customers have given permission' seems to apply to a whole class of people, not just individuals. Consent is an individual contract. If you really know what you're talking about, you could respond to my polite request for information with some relevant links. |
#18
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AV spying. Surprised?
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 10:50:20 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , David writes: On 29/01/2020 00:08, Mayayana wrote: "David" wrote | It has total control. It's routinely allowed to call | home for large updates. And it's assumed to be | in the role of protecting you from intrusion. | | That's a VERY interesting and telling comment, Mayayana! ;-) | | Would you care to elaborate? ?? It's just fact. AV needs full control in order to protect. It's typical these days to issue several large updates per day. And the point of AV is to protect your system, no? What if the developer has 'gone rogue' and invited you to download and install a 'free trial' of AV software which is NOT designed to protect you? How would a layman ever know that such a programme was actually working *against* the users best interests? He wouldn't. Can't say I've ever seen an example, but I imagine there _is_ a class of malware that could be described as fake AV. (AVE? Awira? Malwarebites? [With apologies if any of those exist and are innocuous (-:!]) It's common for predators to fool and lure their prey and make it feel comfortable before they perform their main intent. |
#19
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AV spying. Surprised?
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote
| What if the developer has 'gone rogue' and invited you to download | and install a 'free trial' of AV software which is NOT designed to | protect you? | | How would a layman ever know that such a programme was actually working | *against* the users best interests? | | He wouldn't. | As the old saying goes, with friends like this, who needs enemies? This has nothing to do with malware or "going rogue". It's mainstream. According to this site it's been going on for at least 4 years: https://www.cmswire.com/digital-mark...ing-searching/ We only know because someone came across a data trove from Jumpshot, the Avast spyware company. Another such spyware company is SimilarWeb: https://www.similarweb.com/corp/ourdata/ "We have a dedicated product team at SimilarWeb that is responsible for building and partnering with hundreds of high value consumer products that make up the panel. What makes our Global Panel so robust? 1. The products are highly valuable to consumers which makes the panel sticky with high user retention." In plain English: We've developed software, or made deals with sleazy software developers, that provide us with hundreds of tracking programs!! And many of those also do something useful!! So the chance of our crap being on any given device is very high!! Now do you want to buy our data?! I guess a lot of this is already known about cellphones. It may not even be possible to stop spyware on cellphones. The kings of sleaze, Apple and Google, are running that show. I guess what the Avast info shows is that the same kind of spyware has been gradually moving to desktops as well, where it can be more easily removed but performs some kind of useful service and depends on secrecy to do its work. It's interesting reading the marketing sites. They're the best place to find out about spyware, script tricks, etc. A whole industry is online drooling over where they might get the ultimate spyware, to get a step ahead of competitors. Crazy stuff. |
#20
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AV spying. Surprised?
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 08:30:27 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote | What if the developer has 'gone rogue' and invited you to download | and install a 'free trial' of AV software which is NOT designed to | protect you? | | How would a layman ever know that such a programme was actually working | *against* the users best interests? | | He wouldn't. | As the old saying goes, with friends like this, who needs enemies? This has nothing to do with malware or "going rogue". It's mainstream. According to this site it's been going on for at least 4 years: https://www.cmswire.com/digital-mark...ing-searching/ We only know because someone came across a data trove from Jumpshot, the Avast spyware company. Another such spyware company is SimilarWeb: https://www.similarweb.com/corp/ourdata/ "We have a dedicated product team at SimilarWeb that is responsible for building and partnering with hundreds of high value consumer products that make up the panel. What makes our Global Panel so robust? 1. The products are highly valuable to consumers which makes the panel sticky with high user retention." In plain English: We've developed software, or made deals with sleazy software developers, that provide us with hundreds of tracking programs!! And many of those also do something useful!! So the chance of our crap being on any given device is very high!! Now do you want to buy our data?! I guess a lot of this is already known about cellphones. It may not even be possible to stop spyware on cellphones. The kings of sleaze, Apple and Google, are running that show. I guess what the Avast info shows is that the same kind of spyware has been gradually moving to desktops as well, where it can be more easily removed but performs some kind of useful service and depends on secrecy to do its work. It's interesting reading the marketing sites. They're the best place to find out about spyware, script tricks, etc. A whole industry is online drooling over where they might get the ultimate spyware, to get a step ahead of competitors. Crazy stuff. You can avoid much of the nastiness by downloading the def files separately, and not allowing the AV program to have ANY web access at all. Example, a USB or CD booted AV. The Kaspersky Rescue CD comes with the latest defs, and the CLAMAV series of AVs allow you to download the defs separately. You can do that on another computer. Just pull the Ethernet plug on the computer you are actually scanning Booting from a USB/CD also renders rootkits harmless. A big plus. It's the "cloud enhanced" and "link checking" and "internet security" AVs that are the real malware. (Avast, Sophos, Avira, McAfee, etc). Not sure about the M$ offering. Unfortunately, they are the most popular. One born every millisecond.... []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#21
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AV spying. Surprised?
On 29/01/2020 14:21, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 08:30:27 -0500, "Mayayana" wrote: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote | What if the developer has 'gone rogue' and invited you to download | and install a 'free trial' of AV software which is NOT designed to | protect you? | | How would a layman ever know that such a programme was actually working | *against* the users best interests? | | He wouldn't. | As the old saying goes, with friends like this, who needs enemies? This has nothing to do with malware or "going rogue". It's mainstream. According to this site it's been going on for at least 4 years: https://www.cmswire.com/digital-mark...ing-searching/ We only know because someone came across a data trove from Jumpshot, the Avast spyware company. Another such spyware company is SimilarWeb: https://www.similarweb.com/corp/ourdata/ "We have a dedicated product team at SimilarWeb that is responsible for building and partnering with hundreds of high value consumer products that make up the panel. What makes our Global Panel so robust? 1. The products are highly valuable to consumers which makes the panel sticky with high user retention." In plain English: We've developed software, or made deals with sleazy software developers, that provide us with hundreds of tracking programs!! And many of those also do something useful!! So the chance of our crap being on any given device is very high!! Now do you want to buy our data?! I guess a lot of this is already known about cellphones. It may not even be possible to stop spyware on cellphones. The kings of sleaze, Apple and Google, are running that show. I guess what the Avast info shows is that the same kind of spyware has been gradually moving to desktops as well, where it can be more easily removed but performs some kind of useful service and depends on secrecy to do its work. It's interesting reading the marketing sites. They're the best place to find out about spyware, script tricks, etc. A whole industry is online drooling over where they might get the ultimate spyware, to get a step ahead of competitors. Crazy stuff. You can avoid much of the nastiness by downloading the def files separately, and not allowing the AV program to have ANY web access at all. Example, a USB or CD booted AV. The Kaspersky Rescue CD comes with the latest defs, and the CLAMAV series of AVs allow you to download the defs separately. You can do that on another computer. Just pull the Ethernet plug on the computer you are actually scanning Booting from a USB/CD also renders rootkits harmless. A big plus. It's the "cloud enhanced" and "link checking" and "internet security" AVs that are the real malware. (Avast, Sophos, Avira, McAfee, etc). Not sure about the M$ offering. Unfortunately, they are the most popular. One born every millisecond.... []'s There will be readers on these groups who may well agree with you! Will you please explain how one can boot up an Apple computer from a USB/CD and scan for malware in the manner which you have suggested? TIA (acw reinstated - uk mac group added) |
#22
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AV spying. Surprised?
"David" wrote
| Will you please explain how one can boot up an Apple computer from a | USB/CD and scan for malware in the manner which you have suggested? | Everyone knows Macs don't have malware. To use a Mac: Press the cute iBoot button with the smiley face. Click on the adorable iDonate link. Use your iApplePay, iCheckbook, iCashola, or iLayaway to send imoney to the Apple iChurch. In that iwindow you can choose how much you want apportioned to the Lord Jobs Memorial Upkeep iFund and how much you want Timmy Cook to hide ioffshore as part of his tax evasion ischeme. Once your idonation is complete you'll probably want to buy more iStuff. Are your icomputer, iphone, iearbuds, icharging cords, or other Very Pretty White iStuff more than 18 months old? Then it's time to ireplace them. Again, you can use your iPayment method of choice to send more imoney to the Apple iChurch. Once complete, unless you want to look at your cute iphotos, it's probably time to shut idown. To do that, click the cute-as-a-button ibutton marked "Switch me back to my iPhone". And you're done! No malware as far as the eye can see! And since Apple has all your data backed up online, besides tracking your movements via your iPhone, you'll never have to worry about spyware. As with other products, Apple has their own high quality versions of special Apple ispyware and imalware that are guaranteed isafe to use. We never sell you out to data companies because we want all those profits for ourselves. Happy Appleing and Have a Great iDay! |
#23
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AV spying. Surprised?
David wrote:
There will be readers on these groups who may well agree with you! Will you please explain how one can boot up an Apple computer from a USB/CD and scan for malware in the manner which you have suggested? TIA (acw reinstated - uk mac group added) It's well known that the best iApple experts hang out in the WinXP/Win7/Win10 group. "Press and hold down the C key immediately, and keep it pressed until your Mac either boots from the DVD or doesn't." I take it, that if it doesn't boot as desired, you emit an iApple Expletive. https://www.acronis.com/en-us/articles/usb-boot/ "When you hear the startup chime, press and hold the Option key. Holding that key gives you access to OS X’s Startup Manager. Once the Startup Manager screen appears, release the Option key. The utility will look for any available drives that include bootable content." There must be an iManual somewhere about your place, right ? Paul |
#24
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AV spying. Surprised?
On 2020-01-29 9:10 a.m., Mayayana wrote:
"David" wrote | Will you please explain how one can boot up an Apple computer from a | USB/CD and scan for malware in the manner which you have suggested? | Everyone knows Macs don't have malware. To use a Mac: Press the cute iBoot button with the smiley face. Click on the adorable iDonate link. Use your iApplePay, iCheckbook, iCashola, or iLayaway to send imoney to the Apple iChurch. In that iwindow you can choose how much you want apportioned to the Lord Jobs Memorial Upkeep iFund and how much you want Timmy Cook to hide ioffshore as part of his tax evasion ischeme. Once your idonation is complete you'll probably want to buy more iStuff. Are your icomputer, iphone, iearbuds, icharging cords, or other Very Pretty White iStuff more than 18 months old? Then it's time to ireplace them. Again, you can use your iPayment method of choice to send more imoney to the Apple iChurch. Once complete, unless you want to look at your cute iphotos, it's probably time to shut idown. To do that, click the cute-as-a-button ibutton marked "Switch me back to my iPhone". And you're done! No malware as far as the eye can see! And since Apple has all your data backed up online, besides tracking your movements via your iPhone, you'll never have to worry about spyware. As with other products, Apple has their own high quality versions of special Apple ispyware and imalware that are guaranteed isafe to use. We never sell you out to data companies because we want all those profits for ourselves. Happy Appleing and Have a Great iDay! Priceless, Mayayana. :-) :-) :-) |
#25
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AV spying. Surprised?
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 10:32:25 -0500, Paul
wrote: David wrote: There will be readers on these groups who may well agree with you! Will you please explain how one can boot up an Apple computer from a USB/CD and scan for malware in the manner which you have suggested? TIA (acw reinstated - uk mac group added) It's well known that the best iApple experts hang out in the WinXP/Win7/Win10 group. "Press and hold down the C key immediately, and keep it pressed until your Mac either boots from the DVD or doesn't." I take it, that if it doesn't boot as desired, you emit an iApple Expletive. https://www.acronis.com/en-us/articles/usb-boot/ "When you hear the startup chime, press and hold the Option key. Holding that key gives you access to OS X’s Startup Manager. Once the Startup Manager screen appears, release the Option key. The utility will look for any available drives that include bootable content." There must be an iManual somewhere about your place, right ? Paul I told him to iGoogle it, but didn't "trust" the site because there was nowhere to enter his credit card details. It was one of the first hits on regular Google search, but he doesn't "trust" that either(he might have something there). Amazing the amount of people/companies he thinks are *bad guys*. No pleasing some people. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#26
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AV spying. Surprised?
Shadow,
You can avoid much of the nastiness by downloading the def files separately, and not allowing the AV program to have ANY web access at all. Example, a USB or CD booted AV. .... Just pull the Ethernet plug on the computer you are actually scanning Lol ? Thats like ye olde days with its bootsector viri: There is /absolutily nothing/ stopping such an offline AV product from sneakily installing whatever they want on your 'puter - only to wait till you plug the Ethernet cable back in. If you want to be paranoid about it than you have to go all the way, otherwise it doesn't work. :-) Regards, Rudy Wieser |
#27
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iPhilosophy (was: AV spying. Surprised?)
In message , Mayayana
writes: [] Everyone knows Macs don't have malware. To use a Mac: Press the cute iBoot button with the smiley face. Click on the adorable iDonate link. Use your iApplePay, iCheckbook, iCashola, or iLayaway to send imoney to the Apple iChurch. In that iwindow you can choose how much you want apportioned to the Lord Jobs Memorial Upkeep iFund and how much you want Timmy Cook to hide ioffshore as part of his tax evasion ischeme. [and much more in the same ivein.] Beautifully done! It must really ipi$$ Apple off that the BBC call their streaming software the iPlayer (and it works on lots of platforms - certainly Windows and Android). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf I use science as my model here. We will crawl toward the truth without ever knowing if we are all the way there. - Scott Adams, 2015-3-20 |
#28
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AV spying. Surprised?
On 29/01/2020 18:55, R.Wieser wrote:
Shadow, You can avoid much of the nastiness by downloading the def files separately, and not allowing the AV program to have ANY web access at all. Example, a USB or CD booted AV. ... Just pull the Ethernet plug on the computer you are actually scanning Lol ? Thats like ye olde days with its bootsector viri: There is /absolutily nothing/ stopping such an offline AV product from sneakily installing whatever they want on your 'puter - only to wait till you plug the Ethernet cable back in. If you want to be paranoid about it than you have to go all the way, otherwise it doesn't work. :-) Regards, Rudy Wieser How much further CAN one go, Rudy? |
#29
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AV spying. Surprised?
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:55:50 +0100, "R.Wieser"
wrote: Shadow, You can avoid much of the nastiness by downloading the def files separately, and not allowing the AV program to have ANY web access at all. Example, a USB or CD booted AV. ... Just pull the Ethernet plug on the computer you are actually scanning Lol ? Thats like ye olde days with its bootsector viri: There is /absolutily nothing/ stopping such an offline AV product from sneakily installing whatever they want on your 'puter - only to wait till you plug the Ethernet cable back in. A simple compare before/after will detect any dropped files. A forensic before/after to detect anything more elusive. All the main AVs are monitored by competitors. Sure it could happen with scamware... But few trust an AV that's been on the market for a "full 10 days". If you want to be paranoid about it than you have to go all the way, otherwise it doesn't work. :-) It's better than allowing complete access to the Internet to company that sells your private data to the highest bidder . Which is what most people do. Install an AV once and trust it to keep them safe, secure and "private" forever. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#30
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AV spying. Surprised?
On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 19:36:43 +0000, David
wrote: On 29/01/2020 18:55, R.Wieser wrote: Shadow, You can avoid much of the nastiness by downloading the def files separately, and not allowing the AV program to have ANY web access at all. Example, a USB or CD booted AV. ... Just pull the Ethernet plug on the computer you are actually scanning Lol ? Thats like ye olde days with its bootsector viri: There is /absolutily nothing/ stopping such an offline AV product from sneakily installing whatever they want on your 'puter - only to wait till you plug the Ethernet cable back in. If you want to be paranoid about it than you have to go all the way, otherwise it doesn't work. :-) Regards, Rudy Wieser How much further CAN one go, Rudy? Thread-jacking detected. OT group(s) removed(again). Try iGoogling "Air Gapped" computers. Pay over US$ 50 and you'll get a usable reply. HTH []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
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