Does a smartphone really need 8GB of RAM (the author says if you need 8GB to 12GB of RAM, get a Windows laptop instead)

Does a smartphone really need 8GB of RAM (this author says if you need 8GB
to 12GB of RAM, get a Windows laptop instead)

This TechRadar article published today is titled:
o The Samsung Galaxy S20 has more RAM than most laptops and that's stupid
https://www.techradar.com/news/the-samsung-galaxy-s20-has-more-ram-than-most-laptops-and-thats-stupid

The author notes the Samsung Galaxy S20 comes in 8GB & 12GB RAM choices
and then the author asks and then answers the question for himself:
"Does a smartphone really need 8GB of RAM ¡V or more?
"I honestly don't think so."

The author then asks (and answers) the next most obvious question:
"So why has Samsung packed the Galaxy S20 range with so much RAM?
I think the short answer is that it's a nice big number that
sets it apart from handsets by its competitors."

"By cynically including that much RAM, Samsung seems to be hoping
that it will convince people that its phones are better than,
say, the iPhone, because it has more RAM."

The author then states:
"Putting that much RAM into a smartphone isn't cheap"

Is he sure about that?

The TechRadar author claims:
"It's $100 more than what the Galaxy S10 launched at, and a big part
of that high price will be because of the RAM."

Yet my current $100 64GB 8-core Motorola G7 has only 4GB of RAM (& my two
year old $130 8-core 32GB LG Stylo 3 Plus had 2GB RAM), so certainly you
can easily buy an _entire_ phone with 2GB to 4GB of RAM for around a
hundred bucks so how much can just the few GB of RAM itself actually cost?

In the end, the author is claiming that all that RAM will make developers
lazy; do you agree or disagree?

"But the point I'm making is that if the majority of phones start
coming with 12GB of RAM, you can be damn sure that apps and operating
systems will begin making use of that RAM. In some cases, it will
involve adding great new features. In many cases, though, it will
simply mean the software isn't as optimized as it once was.
And no one wants that."

Does a smartphone really need 8GB to 12GB of RAM?
--
Usenet is where adults share useful tidbits of technical information.

On 2/17/20 12:42 AM, this is what Arlen Holder wrote:
Does a smartphone really need 8GB of RAM (this author says if you need 8GB
to 12GB of RAM, get a Windows laptop instead)

This TechRadar article published today is titled:
o The Samsung Galaxy S20 has more RAM than most laptops and that's stupid
https://www.techradar.com/news/the-samsung-galaxy-s20-has-more-ram-than-most-laptops-and-thats-stupid

The author notes the Samsung Galaxy S20 comes in 8GB & 12GB RAM choices
and then the author asks and then answers the question for himself:
"Does a smartphone really need 8GB of RAM �V or more?
"I honestly don't think so."

The author then asks (and answers) the next most obvious question:
"So why has Samsung packed the Galaxy S20 range with so much RAM?
I think the short answer is that it's a nice big number that
sets it apart from handsets by its competitors."

"By cynically including that much RAM, Samsung seems to be hoping
that it will convince people that its phones are better than,
say, the iPhone, because it has more RAM."

The author then states:
"Putting that much RAM into a smartphone isn't cheap"

Is he sure about that?

The TechRadar author claims:
"It's $100 more than what the Galaxy S10 launched at, and a big part
of that high price will be because of the RAM."

Yet my current $100 64GB 8-core Motorola G7 has only 4GB of RAM (& my two
year old $130 8-core 32GB LG Stylo 3 Plus had 2GB RAM), so certainly you
can easily buy an _entire_ phone with 2GB to 4GB of RAM for around a
hundred bucks so how much can just the few GB of RAM itself actually cost?

In the end, the author is claiming that all that RAM will make developers
lazy; do you agree or disagree?

"But the point I'm making is that if the majority of phones start
coming with 12GB of RAM, you can be damn sure that apps and operating
systems will begin making use of that RAM. In some cases, it will
involve adding great new features. In many cases, though, it will
simply mean the software isn't as optimized as it once was.
And no one wants that."

Does a smartphone really need 8GB to 12GB of RAM?

A do think the 'more memory will make devs lazy / sloppy" comment.

Remember the days of Commodore 64s? 64GB of memory is 1 Million times
larger than that 64K of memory. 1 MILLION.

I wrote an entire BBS program in assembly language that would now take
megs of software & memory if not gigs to do. So yes, with all this .net
stuff now, it's loading DLLs up the wahzoo that carry a lot of unneeded
overhead. At least on Windows, not sure about android code.

I remember Word Perfect would run off of a 1.4M floppy.
People toss the phrases of "memory is cheep" and "large drives are
cheep" meaning: to hell with optimize, the program and data can be
almost any size you want now.

I lived on 10K salary back when, and if I got a $500 raise, I lived on
10.5K salary. My expenses just grew to meet the salary, I really didn't
save more. It just seems to be the way of life.

Al

On 02/17/2020 06:09 AM, Big Al wrote:

Remember the days of Commodore 64s? 64GB of memory is 1 Million times
larger than that 64K of memory. 1 MILLION.

When we got our first computer in 1977, hubby woke me up in the middle
of the night to tell me that he'd just saved 4 bytes in his BIOS
program. That was the first thing he did. The second was write an
editor. He's been refining that editor ever since.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Why put fault tolerance in the OS, when it's already built
into the User?" -- Steve Shaw, regarding Win95

On 2/17/20 8:09 AM, Big Al wrote:

[snip]

Remember the days of Commodore 64s?Â* 64GB of memory is 1 Million times
larger than that 64K of memory.Â*Â* 1 MILLION.

I wrote an entire BBS program in assembly language that would now take
megs of software & memory if not gigs to do.Â* So yes, with all this .net
stuff now, it's loading DLLs up the wahzoo that carry a lot of unneeded
overhead.Â* At least on Windows, not sure about android code.

I wrote a BASIC expansion called BASIC PLUS that fit in 8K RAM (IIRC,
$8000-$9FFF that could be disk-loaded or cartridge with the same code).
I really got a LOT in that 8K.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"We didn't send you to Washington to make intelligent decisions. We sent
you to represent us." [Kent York, Baptist minister to US Rep. Bill
Sarpalius]

On 2/17/20 10:22 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
On 02/17/2020 06:09 AM, Big Al wrote:

Remember the days of Commodore 64s?Â* 64GB of memory is 1 Million times
larger than that 64K of memory.Â*Â* 1 MILLION.

When we got our first computer in 1977, hubby woke me up in the middle
of the night to tell me that he'd just saved 4 bytes in his BIOS
program.Â* That was the first thing he did.Â* The second was write an
editor.Â* He's been refining that editor ever since.

The last thing I put into BASIC PLUS (for C64, see my other post) was
the RESET command. I wanted an option that would do something else
(disable BASIC PLUS if it was disk-loaded) when you entered RESET 0, but
I didn't have enough memory left (3 bytes for the call to the system to
get a number) so I had to make it do this other thing if you had
ANYTHING after the RESET keyword.

BTW, I often entered RESETT

I had almost forgotten how much I liked optimizing code until a few
years ago I got an Arduino, and wrote a program that converted text to
Morse code using a translation table that fit into one byte per
character. Morse code uses up to 6 bits per character and is
variable-length. How do you fit a 6-bit code and a 3-bit count into one
byte?

BTW, I've been using Morse code on holiday lights for 29 years.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"We didn't send you to Washington to make intelligent decisions. We sent
you to represent us." [Kent York, Baptist minister to US Rep. Bill
Sarpalius]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 17 Feb 2020 09:09:23 -0500, Big Al
wrote:


I remember Word Perfect would run off of a 1.4M floppy.
People toss the phrases of "memory is cheep" and "large drives are
cheep" meaning: to hell with optimize, the program and data can be
almost any size you want now.

I lived on 10K salary back when, and if I got a $500 raise, I lived on
10.5K salary. My expenses just grew to meet the salary, I really didn't
save more. It just seems to be the way of life.

I don't disagree. Large amounts of memory make authors lazy, but I
don't think your example is a good one. Most raises, especially ones
not accompanied by promotions or more responsibilities or more difficult
assignments, are just enough to keep up with rising prices. And prices
rise in part because salaries have.


Al

On 2/17/2020 10:47 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 2/17/20 8:09 AM, Big Al wrote:

[snip]

Remember the days of Commodore 64s?Â* 64GB of memory is 1 Million times
larger than that 64K of memory.Â*Â* 1 MILLION.

I wrote an entire BBS program in assembly language that would now take
megs of software & memory if not gigs to do.Â* So yes, with all this
.net stuff now, it's loading DLLs up the wahzoo that carry a lot of
unneeded overhead.Â* At least on Windows, not sure about android code.

I wrote a BASIC expansion called BASIC PLUS that fit in 8K RAM (IIRC,
$8000-$9FFF that could be disk-loaded or cartridge with the same code).
I really got a LOT in that 8K.

https://dilbert.com/search_results?terms=We+Didn%27t+Have+Zeros

On 2/17/2020 6:09 AM, Big Al wrote:

snip

I remember Word Perfect would run off of a 1.4M floppy.
People toss the phrases of "memory is cheep" and "large drives are
cheep" meaning:Â* to hell with optimize, the program and data can be
almost any size you want now.

I worked for one of the first networking companies where we had NICs for
the Apple II, Commodore Pet, and TRS-80. The file server had two 8"
floppy drives for a formatted capacity of 630KB ($4995). Or you could
splurge and get the extended storage unit with 1.2MB ($5595). Eventually
a unit with a 33MB hard drive was available for $9,995. Finally we had a
1.1GB model for $55,000 which came with a 60MB tape backup and a print
server. You'd need 20 tapes to do a full backup, and good luck doing a
restore.

And remember, that storage was shared by a lot of users.

On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 15:47:05 -0800, sms wrote:

You'd need 20 tapes to do a full backup, and good luck doing a
restore.

I _still_ have some of those magtapes, in a blue canister about a foot
wide, with the lock ring on back, and the white plastic half-inch wide
circumferential clasp on the outside (pictures avail upon request).

The main question is when do phones become our "computers", in terms of RAM
requirements, when particularly some of the newest phones apparently have
more RAM than many laptops.

Here is a related Gary Sims article (he's the guy who destroyed Apple's
purely marketing argument about the iPhone RAM being better) that discusses
the merits of ungodly amounts of RAM for a smartphone, such as the latest
crop of top-of-the-line Android phones seem to possess...

o Gary Explains: *How much RAM does your phone REALLY need in 2019*?
https://www.androidauthority.com/how-much-ram-do-you-need-in-smartphone-2019-944920/

Here's another article asking a similar question of how much is too much?
o *Is 10GB of RAM in a Phone an Overkill*?
https://misstechy.com/2018/02/01/10gb-ram-phone-overkill/

See also iPhone's laughably paltry RAM ramifications compared to Android:
o *Does Android use more memory than iOS*? ¡V Gary explains
https://www.androidauthority.com/android-ios-ram-memory-usage-744848/
--
Usenet is where purposefully helpful adults share useful knowledge.

"Arlen Holder" wrote in message ...

Does a smartphone really need 8GB of RAM (this author says if you need 8GB
to 12GB of RAM, get a Windows laptop instead)

This TechRadar article published today is titled:
o The Samsung Galaxy S20 has more RAM than most laptops and that's stupid
https://www.techradar.com/news/the-samsung-galaxy-s20-has-more-ram-than-most-laptops-and-thats-stupid

The author notes the Samsung Galaxy S20 comes in 8GB & 12GB RAM choices
and then the author asks and then answers the question for himself:
"Does a smartphone really need 8GB of RAM ¡V or more?
"I honestly don't think so."

The author then asks (and answers) the next most obvious question:
"So why has Samsung packed the Galaxy S20 range with so much RAM?
I think the short answer is that it's a nice big number that
sets it apart from handsets by its competitors."

"By cynically including that much RAM, Samsung seems to be hoping
that it will convince people that its phones are better than,
say, the iPhone, because it has more RAM."

The author then states:
"Putting that much RAM into a smartphone isn't cheap"

Is he sure about that?

The TechRadar author claims:
"It's $100 more than what the Galaxy S10 launched at, and a big part
of that high price will be because of the RAM."

Yet my current $100 64GB 8-core Motorola G7 has only 4GB of RAM (& my two
year old $130 8-core 32GB LG Stylo 3 Plus had 2GB RAM), so certainly you
can easily buy an _entire_ phone with 2GB to 4GB of RAM for around a
hundred bucks so how much can just the few GB of RAM itself actually cost?

In the end, the author is claiming that all that RAM will make developers
lazy; do you agree or disagree?

"But the point I'm making is that if the majority of phones start
coming with 12GB of RAM, you can be damn sure that apps and operating
systems will begin making use of that RAM. In some cases, it will
involve adding great new features. In many cases, though, it will
simply mean the software isn't as optimized as it once was.
And no one wants that."

Does a smartphone really need 8GB to 12GB of RAM?

My programming days are far behind me so I won't comment on any of those
aspects. Is 8GB of RAM or more really necessary? Depends but from what I
see on a daily basis at one of my clients (hi-end automotive service) his
technicians use several hand held devices which include phones, tablets and
laptops - as well as having access to servers equipped with TB's of service
data.

A service tech often uses a phone or tablet with special apps (from
Mitchell1, Bolt On Technology, AllData, etc.) to lookup service data, order
parts, take photo's of repairs in progress, record repairs and to complete
online forms when performing performance tuning on vehicles, updating
vehicle computers as well as performing diagnostic tasks and keeping clients
aware of progress. They use email and chat also as part of their daily
routine on keeping customers informed and use numerous online web services
to help diagnose difficult problems - and all of that takes memory - and
lots of it.

That may be a special use case but I can think of other uses for a phone
that is essentially used as a workstation. Medical field (my niece is a
trauma nurse) and a phone is way more practical than rolling around a laptop
on a mobile stand and having to use two hands to hold a tablet. She can use
the Bluetooth/NFC features to capture readings directly from ambulance
equipment or other patient monitoring equipment, make verbal notes during
procedures and send those to doctors along with the monitoring data. And
when she consults with others, she can mirror the data from her phone to a
large screen monitor so others can see.

So yes - there really is a need and Samsung and others will fill it because
there are users that need compact hand-held workstations - it just may not
be you.

--
Bob S

On 17/02/2020 17.22, The Real Bev wrote:
On 02/17/2020 06:09 AM, Big Al wrote:

Remember the days of Commodore 64s?Â* 64GB of memory is 1 Million times
larger than that 64K of memory.Â*Â* 1 MILLION.

When we got our first computer in 1977, hubby woke me up in the middle
of the night to tell me that he'd just saved 4 bytes in his BIOS
program.Â* That was the first thing he did.Â* The second was write an
editor.Â* He's been refining that editor ever since.

How many thousands of dollars will that editor cost? Are those
optimizations worth it, in dollars?

Who cares about saving a megabyte, if it costs a hundred hours of
programmers plus whatever in testing and publishing!

You have to measure optimizations in dollars, not bytes. Memory is
cheaper than developer time.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 18/02/2020 03.21, Arlen Holder wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 15:47:05 -0800, sms wrote:

You'd need 20 tapes to do a full backup, and good luck doing a
restore.

I _still_ have some of those magtapes, in a blue canister about a foot
wide, with the lock ring on back, and the white plastic half-inch wide
circumferential clasp on the outside (pictures avail upon request).

The main question is when do phones become our "computers", in terms of RAM
requirements, when particularly some of the newest phones apparently have
more RAM than many laptops.

Don't forget that many people that own a smartphone don't own any
computer, thus the phone (or hopefully a tablet) is their only computing
device they ever had.

And the fact that you own computer tapes disqualifies you as judge of
this, you are too old :-P

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arlen Holder wrote:
Does a smartphone really need 8GB of RAM (this author says if you need 8GB
to 12GB of RAM, get a Windows laptop instead)

I tried reading some articles about Android,
and it just isn't designed like other OSes.

Android won't allow one process to use all the
RAM on the machine. The max heap is set to
around 50MB. So right away, the design is prefaced
on "containerization" and ensuring that one
App cannot inconvenience another App.

Given the nature of the mechanism (without wasting
any more ink on details no one cares about), no,
12GB of RAM would be useless unless you can put
something other than Android on there.

Android does have a mechanism, where an exited App
continues to live in memory. The system RAM then,
is treated as a "read cache" in a sense, allowing
a program to start faster the second time it is used.
But from a user perspective, this is a pretty limp
usage of RAM. I wouldn't pay an extra $100 so my
OS could have more fun, while I'm sitting there
looking out the window.

When I buy 12GB of RAM, I expect to "edit an 11GB JPG with it" :-)
I did do one computing project here, where the memory footprint
was 80GB, and there was a rather substantial swap file. My machine
was "doing what I wanted to do" and not the inverse. That was
a panoramic stitching application (which, as it turns out,
didn't work all that well).

Paul

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 17/02/2020 17.22, The Real Bev wrote:
On 02/17/2020 06:09 AM, Big Al wrote:

Remember the days of Commodore 64s?Â* 64GB of memory is 1 Million times
larger than that 64K of memory.Â*Â* 1 MILLION.

When we got our first computer in 1977, hubby woke me up in the middle
of the night to tell me that he'd just saved 4 bytes in his BIOS
program.Â* That was the first thing he did.Â* The second was write an
editor.Â* He's been refining that editor ever since.

How many thousands of dollars will that editor cost? Are those
optimizations worth it, in dollars?

Who cares about saving a megabyte, if it costs a hundred hours of
programmers plus whatever in testing and publishing!

You have to measure optimizations in dollars, not bytes. Memory is
cheaper than developer time.

Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1205/

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Carlos E.R. wrote:
....
Don't forget that many people that own a smartphone don't own any
computer, thus the phone (or hopefully a tablet) is their only computing
device they ever had.

And the fact that you own computer tapes disqualifies you as judge of
this, you are too old :-P

I hate using smartphones and tablets. I prefer old school computers even
if they are very old like netbooks! Yes, I'm old school. :P
--
"Oh bother", said Winnie the Pooh, "There's an ant on my foot..."
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )