Does a smartphone really need 8GB of RAM (the author says if you need 8GB to 12GB of RAM, get a Windows laptop instead)

"Ant" wrote in message
news
I hate using smartphones and tablets. I prefer old school computers even
if they are very old like netbooks! Yes, I'm old school. :P

Phones and tablets are fine for reading information (emails, web pages), but
they fail badly by not having a physical keyboard. Even a 10" tablet has a
virtual keyboard whose keys are smaller than my fingers, and a phone with a
6" screen is a real pain to type more than a few characters; I really miss
being able to quickly and accurately block, select and copy text from a
document, URL etc, which is trivial with Windows, Linux or Mac.

I like a nice tower computer with a full-size keyboard and a large (eg 24")
screen. And a mouse rather than a tracking pad (laptop) or touch screen
(phone/tablet). I prefer a wired mouse/keyboard to a wireless one because
it's less likely to let me down at a crucial time by its batteries starting
to go flat. I also prefer Ethernet to wifi for anything that needs
significant amounts of data transferring (eg copying a recorded TV programme
from the Raspberry Pi where I record it to the Windows PC that is my media
server).

In article , NY wrote:

Phones and tablets are fine for reading information (emails, web pages), but
they fail badly by not having a physical keyboard. Even a 10" tablet has a
virtual keyboard whose keys are smaller than my fingers, and a phone with a
6" screen is a real pain to type more than a few characters; I really miss
being able to quickly and accurately block, select and copy text from a
document, URL etc, which is trivial with Windows, Linux or Mac.

they're designed to not need a keyboard for most tasks.

however for the few tasks that do, use a bluetooth or usb keyboard, or
even dictation.

I like a nice tower computer with a full-size keyboard and a large (eg 24")
screen. And a mouse rather than a tracking pad (laptop) or touch screen
(phone/tablet). I prefer a wired mouse/keyboard to a wireless one because
it's less likely to let me down at a crucial time by its batteries starting
to go flat. I also prefer Ethernet to wifi for anything that needs
significant amounts of data transferring (eg copying a recorded TV programme
from the Raspberry Pi where I record it to the Windows PC that is my media
server).

that's a lot less portable.

On 18/02/2020 21.17, NY wrote:
"Ant" wrote in message
news
I hate using smartphones and tablets. I prefer old school computers even
if they are very old like netbooks! Yes, I'm old school. :P

Phones and tablets are fine for reading information (emails, web pages),
but they fail badly by not having a physical keyboard. Even a 10" tablet
has a virtual keyboard whose keys are smaller than my fingers, and a
phone with a 6" screen is a real pain to type more than a few
characters; I really miss being able to quickly and accurately block,
select and copy text from a document, URL etc, which is trivial with
Windows, Linux or Mac.

I like a nice tower computer with a full-size keyboard and a large (eg
24") screen. And a mouse rather than a tracking pad (laptop) or touch
screen (phone/tablet). I prefer a wired mouse/keyboard to a wireless one
because it's less likely to let me down at a crucial time by its
batteries starting to go flat. I also prefer Ethernet to wifi for
anything that needs significant amounts of data transferring (eg copying
a recorded TV programme from the Raspberry Pi where I record it to the
Windows PC that is my media server).

We are too old :-P

I have seen youths "type" with amazing speed at a phone.

Yet you can connect an actual keyboard via BT.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

In comp.mobile.android Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/02/2020 21.17, NY wrote:
"Ant" wrote in message
news
I hate using smartphones and tablets. I prefer old school computers even
if they are very old like netbooks! Yes, I'm old school. :P

Phones and tablets are fine for reading information (emails, web pages),
but they fail badly by not having a physical keyboard. Even a 10" tablet
has a virtual keyboard whose keys are smaller than my fingers, and a
phone with a 6" screen is a real pain to type more than a few
characters; I really miss being able to quickly and accurately block,
select and copy text from a document, URL etc, which is trivial with
Windows, Linux or Mac.

I like a nice tower computer with a full-size keyboard and a large (eg
24") screen. And a mouse rather than a tracking pad (laptop) or touch
screen (phone/tablet). I prefer a wired mouse/keyboard to a wireless one
because it's less likely to let me down at a crucial time by its
batteries starting to go flat. I also prefer Ethernet to wifi for
anything that needs significant amounts of data transferring (eg copying
a recorded TV programme from the Raspberry Pi where I record it to the
Windows PC that is my media server).

We are too old :-P

I have seen youths "type" with amazing speed at a phone.

I can't even type that fast and well. Also, I get carpal syndrome and
tired if I use my iPhones too long. With a computer, clicky keyboard
(model M!), big screen, etc. much better.

--
"Oh bother", said Winnie the Pooh, "There's an ant on my foot..."
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On 2/18/2020 1:17 PM, NY wrote:
"Ant" wrote in message

Phones and tablets are fine for reading information (emails, web pages), but
they fail badly by not having a physical keyboard. Even a 10" tablet has a
virtual keyboard whose keys are smaller than my fingers, and a phone with a
6" screen is a real pain to type more than a few characters; I really miss
being able to quickly and accurately block, select and copy text from a
document, URL etc, which is trivial with Windows, Linux or Mac.

I like a nice tower computer with a full-size keyboard and a large (eg 24")
screen. And a mouse rather than a tracking pad (laptop) or touch screen
(phone/tablet). I prefer a wired mouse/keyboard to a wireless one because
it's less likely to let me down at a crucial time by its batteries starting
to go flat. I also prefer Ethernet to wifi for anything that needs
significant amounts of data transferring (eg copying a recorded TV programme
from the Raspberry Pi where I record it to the Windows PC that is my media
server).


I don't often get to say this, but you've expressed a number of
preferences, and I agree with *all* of them.


--
Ken

On 2/18/2020 1:27 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/02/2020 21.17, NY wrote:
"Ant" wrote in message
news
I hate using smartphones and tablets. I prefer old school computers even
if they are very old like netbooks! Yes, I'm old school. :P

Phones and tablets are fine for reading information (emails, web pages),
but they fail badly by not having a physical keyboard. Even a 10" tablet
has a virtual keyboard whose keys are smaller than my fingers, and a
phone with a 6" screen is a real pain to type more than a few
characters; I really miss being able to quickly and accurately block,
select and copy text from a document, URL etc, which is trivial with
Windows, Linux or Mac.

I like a nice tower computer with a full-size keyboard and a large (eg
24") screen. And a mouse rather than a tracking pad (laptop) or touch
screen (phone/tablet). I prefer a wired mouse/keyboard to a wireless one
because it's less likely to let me down at a crucial time by its
batteries starting to go flat. I also prefer Ethernet to wifi for
anything that needs significant amounts of data transferring (eg copying
a recorded TV programme from the Raspberry Pi where I record it to the
Windows PC that is my media server).

We are too old :-P

I have seen youths "type" with amazing speed at a phone.

Yet you can connect an actual keyboard via BT.



To me, the advantage of a smart phone is that it's easy to carry,
especially when traveling. I don't want to have to take a keyboard with
me when I'm on on vacation.



--
Ken

In article , Ken Blake
wrote:

I have seen youths "type" with amazing speed at a phone.

Yet you can connect an actual keyboard via BT.


To me, the advantage of a smart phone is that it's easy to carry,
especially when traveling. I don't want to have to take a keyboard with
me when I'm on on vacation.

they're not that big, but if space is a concern, get a folding
keyboard.

plus, if you're on vacation, you would not be typing a whole lot anyway.

In article , Jim H
wrote:

o The Samsung Galaxy S20 has more RAM than most laptops and that's stupid

https://www.techradar.com/news/the-s...e-ram-than-mos
t-laptops-and-thats-stupid

Without yet having read the article, several reasons smartphones need
a lot of RAM...

1) Because the manufacturer makes a HUGE profit on the extra RAM.

true, and because bigger numbers must be better, somehow.

2) The buyer needs the added RAM because he hasn't given any real
thought into how many pictures he can really store in the extra RAM he
thinks he needs.

3) Selfies.

photos are stored in flash memory.

they're only in ram when viewing or processing.

On 19/02/2020 00.55, Ken Blake wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:27 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/02/2020 21.17, NY wrote:
"Ant" wrote in message
news I hate using smartphones and tablets. I prefer old school computers
even
if they are very old like netbooks! Yes, I'm old school. :P

Phones and tablets are fine for reading information (emails, web
pages), but they fail badly by not having a physical keyboard. Even a
10" tablet has a virtual keyboard whose keys are smaller than my
fingers, and a phone with a 6" screen is a real pain to type more
than a few characters; I really miss being able to quickly and
accurately block, select and copy text from a document, URL etc,
which is trivial with Windows, Linux or Mac.

I like a nice tower computer with a full-size keyboard and a large
(eg 24") screen. And a mouse rather than a tracking pad (laptop) or
touch screen (phone/tablet). I prefer a wired mouse/keyboard to a
wireless one because it's less likely to let me down at a crucial
time by its batteries starting to go flat. I also prefer Ethernet to
wifi for anything that needs significant amounts of data transferring
(eg copying a recorded TV programme from the Raspberry Pi where I
record it to the Windows PC that is my media server).

We are too old :-P

I have seen youths "type" with amazing speed at a phone.

Yet you can connect an actual keyboard via BT.



To me, the advantage of a smart phone is that it's easy to carry,
especially when traveling. I don't want to have to take a keyboard with
me when I'm on on vacation.

I carry a small laptop. Not if it is one day vacation.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2/19/2020 2:10 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 19/02/2020 00.55, Ken Blake wrote:
On 2/18/2020 1:27 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/02/2020 21.17, NY wrote:
"Ant" wrote in message
news I hate using smartphones and tablets. I prefer old school computers
even
if they are very old like netbooks! Yes, I'm old school. :P

Phones and tablets are fine for reading information (emails, web
pages), but they fail badly by not having a physical keyboard. Even a
10" tablet has a virtual keyboard whose keys are smaller than my
fingers, and a phone with a 6" screen is a real pain to type more
than a few characters; I really miss being able to quickly and
accurately block, select and copy text from a document, URL etc,
which is trivial with Windows, Linux or Mac.

I like a nice tower computer with a full-size keyboard and a large
(eg 24") screen. And a mouse rather than a tracking pad (laptop) or
touch screen (phone/tablet). I prefer a wired mouse/keyboard to a
wireless one because it's less likely to let me down at a crucial
time by its batteries starting to go flat. I also prefer Ethernet to
wifi for anything that needs significant amounts of data transferring
(eg copying a recorded TV programme from the Raspberry Pi where I
record it to the Windows PC that is my media server).

We are too old :-P

I have seen youths "type" with amazing speed at a phone.

Yet you can connect an actual keyboard via BT.



To me, the advantage of a smart phone is that it's easy to carry,
especially when traveling. I don't want to have to take a keyboard with
me when I'm on on vacation.

I carry a small laptop. Not if it is one day vacation.


I used to carry a 15" laptop, then a netbook, then a 9" tablet, now a
smart phone. These days my motto is the smaller and lighter the better.




--
Ken

On 2020-02-19 08:25, Jim H wrote:
Remember the days of Commodore 64s? 64GB of memory is 1 Million times
larger than that 64K of memory. 1 MILLION.

What? Me waste RAM?

$ perl6 -e 'say
0xFFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFF F_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFF F_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFF F_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFFF_FFF F'

45624406176221952186411716057002913248932285072485 59930579192517899275167208677386505912811317371399 77864230957359440731068870472137543799825266131972 2214188251994674360264950082874192246603775

"Paul" wrote in message ...
snip....

Given the nature of the mechanism (without wasting
any more ink on details no one cares about), no,
12GB of RAM would be useless unless you can put
something other than Android on there.


snip....
Paul


Paul,

You perhaps didn't read all the data. Depending on the app, the max heap
size can go well above 50MB. Many references can be found that support how
much memory an app can use.

If the manufacturers didn't think there would be a real need that they could
monetize on, I seriously doubt they would do it. When you consider the new
5G standard (~10Gb/s data rate) and the future proofing they are offering,
plus the additional speed of LPDDR5 (about 1.3 times faster from what I've
read), it's foolish to ignore what the market will need and use - very soon.

--

Bob S.

.....and before someone doubts the ~10Gb/s rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G

"5G speeds will range from ~50Mbit/s to over 2 gigabit at the start, and is
expected to grow to even 100Gbit/s, 100x faster than 4g.[12] The fastest 5g,
known as mmWave, delivers speeds of up to and over 2Gbit/s. "

https://www.telekom.com/en/company/d...al-time-544498

"Deutsche Telekom tested a 5G network live at this year’s IFA. A speed of
three gigabits per second was measured. Under ideal conditions, the 5G speed
should in future reach up to 10 Gbit/s, the equivalent of a 20-fold
increase."

Plenty of other articles available showing 5G networks going way above
10Gb/s speeds.

Bob S

n/a wrote:
....and before someone doubts the ~10Gb/s rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G

"5G speeds will range from ~50Mbit/s to over 2 gigabit at the start, and
is expected to grow to even 100Gbit/s, 100x faster than 4g.[12] The
fastest 5g, known as mmWave, delivers speeds of up to and over 2Gbit/s. "

https://www.telekom.com/en/company/d...al-time-544498


"Deutsche Telekom tested a 5G network live at this year’s IFA. A speed
of three gigabits per second was measured. Under ideal conditions, the
5G speed should in future reach up to 10 Gbit/s, the equivalent of a
20-fold increase."

Plenty of other articles available showing 5G networks going way above
10Gb/s speeds.

Bob S

Here's a graphic, showing memory usage on a smartphone.

The first set are cached. The second set are running ones.
They're all relatively small, compared to what 12GB of available RAM
could offer to a user.

https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content...-processes.png

https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content...-processes.png

( https://www.howtogeek.com/166140/you...ps-on-android/.)

*******

Did you know it was "un-possible" for industry evangelism to appear
in a Wikipedia article ? :-) That never happens.

Try not to inhale too much of that mmWave gas.

Where will the money come from ?

Follow the money.

Does the math add up ?

No.

There's no reason for 5G to deploy any faster
than any other G.

The $200 per month subscriber fee is the limiting factor.

There isn't enough bandwidth in the entire existing
Internet in North America, to support the kinds of
deployments they're talking about. Will the server
at my public library, be able to download the text
from the local newspaper at 10Gbit/sec ? Did the public
library get some donated Gbit/sec equipment ? No ?

A server I use, for Linux distro ISO files, downloads
at 600KB/sec (that's slower than my broadband). It's
going to download at 600KB/sec tomorrow as well. I'm
pretty lucky to have such a connection. The aggregate
bandwidth that university site uses must cost them a
fortune. How would a 5G universe tie into that ? A wee
bit of a mismatch. How does Netflix today "meter out bandwidth" ?
Are they overly generous with it ? Or, stingy as hell ?
You decide. Then get back to me. Even on a subscription
basis, there's no "generosity". There's got to be
reasons for these observations. All sorts of people
are independently making decisions like this.

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message ...

n/a wrote:
....and before someone doubts the ~10Gb/s rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G

"5G speeds will range from ~50Mbit/s to over 2 gigabit at the start, and
is expected to grow to even 100Gbit/s, 100x faster than 4g.[12] The
fastest 5g, known as mmWave, delivers speeds of up to and over 2Gbit/s. "

https://www.telekom.com/en/company/d...al-time-544498
"Deutsche Telekom tested a 5G network live at this year’s IFA. A speed of
three gigabits per second was measured. Under ideal conditions, the 5G
speed should in future reach up to 10 Gbit/s, the equivalent of a 20-fold
increase."

Plenty of other articles available showing 5G networks going way above
10Gb/s speeds.

Bob S

Here's a graphic, showing memory usage on a smartphone.

The first set are cached. The second set are running ones.
They're all relatively small, compared to what 12GB of available RAM
could offer to a user.

https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content...-processes.png

https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content...-processes.png

(
https://www.howtogeek.com/166140/you...ps-on-android/.)

*******

Did you know it was "un-possible" for industry evangelism to appear
in a Wikipedia article ? :-) That never happens.

Try not to inhale too much of that mmWave gas.

Where will the money come from ?

Follow the money.

Does the math add up ?

No.

There's no reason for 5G to deploy any faster
than any other G.

The $200 per month subscriber fee is the limiting factor.

There isn't enough bandwidth in the entire existing
Internet in North America, to support the kinds of
deployments they're talking about. Will the server
at my public library, be able to download the text
from the local newspaper at 10Gbit/sec ? Did the public
library get some donated Gbit/sec equipment ? No ?

A server I use, for Linux distro ISO files, downloads
at 600KB/sec (that's slower than my broadband). It's
going to download at 600KB/sec tomorrow as well. I'm
pretty lucky to have such a connection. The aggregate
bandwidth that university site uses must cost them a
fortune. How would a 5G universe tie into that ? A wee
bit of a mismatch. How does Netflix today "meter out bandwidth" ?
Are they overly generous with it ? Or, stingy as hell ?
You decide. Then get back to me. Even on a subscription
basis, there's no "generosity". There's got to be
reasons for these observations. All sorts of people
are independently making decisions like this.

Paul

Paul,

We have gone from 9600 baud modems to Gigabyte speeds. I was designing ITS
(Intelligent Transportation Systems) that had 24 channels of 1GB bandwidth
per video feed back in the 90's and systems for NASA (Boeing Delta 4 launch
pads at the Cape) and then putting those feeds onto SONET systems for
distribution. At the same time we were sending 155 Mb/s traffic over
satellite systems when the normal channels were 256K - 20 years ago.
Specialized systems back then - yes but today they are the norm.

My WiKi reference was a quick lookup - about as reliable as any others.
Look up your own favorite reference and compare.

I won't argue with you though but I believe you are being short sighted
about how fast industry moves along with the people that are willing to
purchase and have a need for the technology. There are many applications and
other devices that will ride on hi-speed 5G networks. It will be built-out
as the need for the additional bandwidth demands.

Come back to this post in 6 months and see how accurate you are. As for
your examples of how much memory an app uses - it's a moot point when apps
use much more than your examples. Besides that is a 2017 article - we have
moved on. The average being used by a typical user goes up - the same as
bandwidth needs have increased. How much memory do you have in your PC
today compared to 10 years ago?

Paul, I think you're a very knowledgeable person that has offered a lot of
good advice at times but you have a tendency to be a bit touchy when someone
points out a different viewpoint. Face it - we are not always right and our
opinions on subjects do not make them so and that includes yours. Take a
step back and realize that I and others may have a different perspective
than you based on our own experiences.

My comments were pointed at other uses (transportation, medical) rather than
a typical users. Not every person wants or needs a self driving car but
here they are....;-)

--
Bob S