Computer needs warming up.

On 26/08/2020 16.58, Ken Blake wrote:
On 8/25/2020 7:16 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
A friend has a computer that needs to be warmed up in cold weather
before it will start.

How cold are we talking about here?

He blows hot air into it from a small electric floor-heater.

Then it starts OK.

What part in the computer needs fixing?


Bad caps? Cheap PS?


There have been reports of this kind of fallout before.

The motherboards are probably never verified in
a temperature chamber.

I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken.


The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the head
on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared to
when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a few
minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D


30MB? 8086? It's obviously not running Windows 10.

Why are you still running such an ancient computer?

My personal museum :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 26/08/2020 17.43, Sam E wrote:
On 8/25/20 9:16 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

[snip]

The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the
head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off compared
to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to boot, till a
few minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D

Called "turbo", rather than the normal 4.77MHz.

No, this machine does not have a "turbo" button. Nor did it use the
typical 8088. It was faster than most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC1512

--
Cheers, Carlos.

This post is for people who can read HTML in their newsreader. If you see this message then clearly you don't have the modern machine with latest software.

--

With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

On 8/26/2020 2:28 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:

Jeff Barnett "

On 26/08/2020 19:30, Jeff Barnett wrote:
"Since 0 degrees in any temperature scale, other than absolute, is
simply a fixed but arbitrary level what on earth does 10-15 percent even
mean? It sounds like a Good Guy and/or M$ boast: it might be interesting
but on further thought, useless. "

The OP lives in Australia where the average temperature of 40 degrees
Celsius is normal. The electric blanket is for his computer which seems
to lose heat rapidly because he has fitted some extreme cooling system.

The alternative is to take the computer to bed with him so that it
doesn't cool down quickly.

The alternative would be to answer the question: What on earth does
10-15 percent even mean in context? I think your current response shows
your and your God, M$, actual ability to answer simple questions about
your "products". Was my question really that hard to answer? Oh, by the
way, 40 degrees C is 104 degrees F. If it were me in that temperature,
I'd want ice cream, not an electric blanket. Was that a typo?
--
Jeff Barnett

On 26.08.20 22:46, Jeff Barnett wrote:
On 8/26/2020 2:28 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
cut

I'd want ice cream, not an electric blanket. Was that a typo?

Nah, that was a trollo.(on six newsgroups)

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 10:53:30 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-08-26 5:59 a.m., Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:

...

I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken.


The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the
head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off
compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to
boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D


Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting
to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest
and
hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time.
Probably not all that easy to set up.

I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer
should work best at working temps :-)


It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time,
so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up
midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others
afterwards...



https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/

That's one long technical article :-)


*************************** RPM*** sect s/t trks** surf* skew* seek
t* to t* Layout
Seagate ST-157A* 44.7 MB** 3602** 512* 26* 3,360* 6**** 0**** 63ms
40um*** F or A
3.5?, stepper

63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier one.


As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have
so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than
just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in
the curve in HDTune).

mmm.



Back in the early 1990s The organization where I was Building
maintenance and security manager, We had installed a new security system
which Included a PDP11/23 Vixen computer purchased and installed by a
Houston Texas company and myself.
It was equipped with an, ST506 MFM drive which was formatted and loaded
with the security software I Texas where the temps were about 105 deg F.

It ran fine for about 2 years or so Being a security system it was never
shut down
The Manitoba Hydro decid to switch us to a new 25,000 volt power line
from 13,600 which necessitated a new main yard transformer also.

This was set for a Sunday so I was in at 6:00 am and shut down all the
building environmental and security systems and they worked till about
7:00 PM and power my main stems up so I started some equipment then
punched in the Hex boot code to restart
the security system but got ERROR, so I left it and went and did other
startup jobs, about a half hour later Tried again an it fired up, In the
next week I experimented and found that the system had to run for at
least a half hour to warm up to about 100 deg. F for it to boot.

So to be safe I ordered a whole new computer from Houston and instructed
them to format and install the software at a room temperature of 70 deg.
F , I kept the original as a backup.

Rene

The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the
equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm
blanket over you.

On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 10:53:30 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-08-26 5:59 a.m., Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:

...

I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not broken.


The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the
head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off
compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to
boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D


Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be interesting
to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest
and
hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time.
Probably not all that easy to set up.

I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer
should work best at working temps :-)


It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time,
so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up
midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others
afterwards...



https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/

That's one long technical article :-)


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* RPMÂ*Â*Â* sect s/t trksÂ*Â* surfÂ* skewÂ* seek
tÂ* to tÂ* Layout
Seagate ST-157AÂ* 44.7 MBÂ*Â* 3602Â*Â* 512Â* 26Â* 3,360Â* 6Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â*Â*Â*Â* 63ms
40umÂ*Â*Â* F or A
3.5?, stepper

63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier one.


As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have
so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than
just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in
the curve in HDTune).

mmm.



Back in the early 1990s The organization where I was Building
maintenance and security manager, We had installed a new security system
which Included a PDP11/23 Vixen computer purchased and installed by a
Houston Texas company and myself.
It was equipped with an, ST506 MFM drive which was formatted and loaded
with the security software I Texas where the temps were about 105 deg F.

It ran fine for about 2 years or so Being a security system it was never
shut down
The Manitoba Hydro decid to switch us to a new 25,000 volt power line
from 13,600 which necessitated a new main yard transformer also.

This was set for a Sunday so I was in at 6:00 am and shut down all the
building environmental and security systems and they worked till about
7:00 PM and power my main stems up so I started some equipment then
punched in the Hex boot code to restart
the security system but got ERROR, so I left it and went and did other
startup jobs, about a half hour later Tried again an it fired up, In the
next week I experimented and found that the system had to run for at
least a half hour to warm up to about 100 deg. F for it to boot.

So to be safe I ordered a whole new computer from Houston and instructed
them to format and install the software at a room temperature of 70 deg.
F , I kept the original as a backup.

Rene

The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the
equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm
blanket over you.


Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously
received :-)

Rene

Rene

On 2020-08-26 4:44 p.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 10:53:30 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-08-26 5:59 a.m., Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 26/08/2020 11.13, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2020 05.50, Paul wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:

...

I have a computer that needs warming up to boot, and it is not
broken.


The thing is, its 30 MB hard disk uses a step motor to position the
head on each track. In winter, the positions are slightly off
compared to when it is warm, so there are read errors and fails to
boot, till a few minutes later when the hard disk warms up.

:-DDD

It runs with an 8086 at 8Mhz. Well, /runs/... you know :-D


Here's a drive from the era. 650 tracks per inch. It would be
interesting
to see, if it was reformatted at a median temperature (between coldest
and
hottest), whether it would remain properly accessible all the time.
Probably not all that easy to set up.

I thought of that at the time, but I decided against. The computer
should work best at working temps :-)


It was not feasible, anyway. The low format phase took a longish time,
so even if I booted and started fast enough, the disk would warm up
midways. Some tracks would produce error during boot, and others
afterwards...



https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/...obenchmarking/


That's one long technical article :-)


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â* RPMÂ*Â*Â* sect s/t trksÂ*Â* surfÂ* skewÂ* seek
tÂ* to tÂ* Layout
Seagate ST-157AÂ* 44.7 MBÂ*Â* 3602Â*Â* 512Â* 26Â* 3,360Â* 6Â*Â*Â*Â* 0Â*Â*Â*Â* 63ms
40umÂ*Â*Â* F or A
3.5?, stepper

63 ms seek time... I remember that figure. I think 80 was an earlier
one.


As for the information on that page, no wonder modern drives have
so much ripple in the transfer curve. There's more to it than
just zone bit recording (which is what causes the stairsteps in
the curve in HDTune).

mmm.



Back in the early 1990s The organization where I was Building
maintenance and security manager, We had installed a new security system
which Included a PDP11/23 Vixen computer purchased and installed by a
Houston Texas company and myself.
It was equipped with an, ST506 MFM drive which was formatted and loaded
with the security software I Texas where the temps were about 105 deg F.

It ran fine for about 2 years or so Being a security system it was never
shut down
The Manitoba Hydro decid to switch us to a new 25,000 volt power line
from 13,600 which necessitated a newÂ* main yard transformer also.

This was set for a Sunday so I was in at 6:00 am and shut down all the
building environmental and security systems and they worked till about
7:00 PM and power my main stems up so I started some equipment then
punched in the Hex boot code to restart
the securityÂ* system but got ERROR, so I left it and went and did other
startup jobs, about a half hour later Tried again an it fired up, In the
next week I experimented and found that the system had to run for at
least a half hour to warm up to about 100 deg. F for it to boot.

So to be safe I ordered a whole new computer from Houston and instructed
them to format and install the software at a room temperature of 70 deg.
F , I kept the original as a backup.

Rene

The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the
equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm
blanket over you.


Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously
receivedÂ* :-)

Rene

Rene



Nope, not twins there's only one of me. :-)

Counting back , been to that theater 9 times.

Rene

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the
equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm
blanket over you.


Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously
received :-)

I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they
take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into
a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest.

On 2020-08-26 7:05 p.m., Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the
equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm
blanket over you.


Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously
received :-)

I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they
take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into
a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest.


No, these come fresh from a warming oven, Proof! I'm still alive. :-)

Rene

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the
equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm
blanket over you.

Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously
received :-)

I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they
take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into
a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest.


These are heated blankets. Like, the blanket is
stuck in a microwave to charge it up, and when
you get the blanket, it feels like an electric
blanket. The blanket is heavy and has thermal mass,
so it stays warm for a while. I got one of those
blankets during my CT-PET scan (in between scans).

There's no premise of cleanliness with that thing,
Maybe they wash them between patients, but that's
a pretty large item to have to wash. It would
depend on what is used as the thermal mass, as to
how easy it would be to wash it. Maybe it comes apart
into components, and then they can wash the fabric part
separaet. I wasn't in a position at the time to
disassemble it and see :-) I was supposed to pretend
I was sleepy.

Paul

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:28:27 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the
equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm
blanket over you.

Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously
received :-)

I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they
take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into
a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest.


These are heated blankets. Like, the blanket is
stuck in a microwave to charge it up, and when
you get the blanket, it feels like an electric
blanket. The blanket is heavy and has thermal mass,
so it stays warm for a while. I got one of those
blankets during my CT-PET scan (in between scans).

There's no premise of cleanliness with that thing,
Maybe they wash them between patients, but that's
a pretty large item to have to wash. It would
depend on what is used as the thermal mass, as to
how easy it would be to wash it. Maybe it comes apart
into components, and then they can wash the fabric part
separaet. I wasn't in a position at the time to
disassemble it and see :-) I was supposed to pretend
I was sleepy.

Paul

Surely the microwave zaps all the bugs?

On 2020-08-26 7:50 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:28:27 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 16:44:58 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 2020-08-26 4:28 p.m., Peter Jason wrote:
The temperatures in operating theaters is kept very low because "the
equipment requires it" and if one complains then they throw a warm
blanket over you.

Been there quite a few times, warm blanket was offered and graciously
received :-)

I wonder if it's like asking for a blanket during an air flight, where they
take the previously used blankets, carefully fold them and place each into
a fresh plastic sleeve, ready for the next guest.


These are heated blankets. Like, the blanket is
stuck in a microwave to charge it up, and when
you get the blanket, it feels like an electric
blanket. The blanket is heavy and has thermal mass,
so it stays warm for a while. I got one of those
blankets during my CT-PET scan (in between scans).

There's no premise of cleanliness with that thing,
Maybe they wash them between patients, but that's
a pretty large item to have to wash. It would
depend on what is used as the thermal mass, as to
how easy it would be to wash it. Maybe it comes apart
into components, and then they can wash the fabric part
separaet. I wasn't in a position at the time to
disassemble it and see :-) I was supposed to pretend
I was sleepy.

Paul

Surely the microwave zaps all the bugs?


I would think so, I don't think the little buggers can stand up to a
good blast in the Pizza Nuker.

Rene

On 27/08/2020 02.50, Peter Jason wrote:
Surely the microwave zaps all the bugs?

Nope. I have seen critters alive inside my microwave just after boiling
a cup of water for making tea. I have a photo somewhere.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2020-08-26 9:11 p.m., Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 27/08/2020 02.50, Peter Jason wrote:
Surely the microwave zaps all the bugs?

Nope. I have seen critters alive inside my microwave just after boiling
a cup of water for making tea. I have a photo somewhere.


More Power Scotty !!!

Rene