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#1
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Logging Java usage?
I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it
actually does anything. I've just switched on the 'Enable logging' option via Settings Control Panel Java https://www.dropbox.com/s/vgc3ttjv45...ng-1.jpg?raw=1 But on trying to access the log file at C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile\AppData\L ocalLow\Sun\Java\Deployment\log I got the message: "Windows cannot access the specified device, path or file. You may not have the appropriate permissions to access the item." However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.* which reports no files in that folder. Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can test that I can access it in future? Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
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#2
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Logging Java usage?
Terry Pinnell wrote:
I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it actually does anything. There used to be quite a few web pages with embedded Java applets, but they are dwindling away. Java has deprecated Applets, so they will probably disappear completely. Unless you visit one of the few remaining pages with an applet, your Java installation is probably not doing anything. However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.* which reports no files in that folder. Pretty good indication that nothing is going on. Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can test that I can access it in future? Try the New York Times syndicated crossword at http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/com...crossword.html The puzzle runs in an applet. That should give the logger something to log. -- Tim Slattery tim at risingdove dot com |
#3
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Logging Java usage?
Terry Pinnell wrote:
I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it actually does anything. I've just switched on the 'Enable logging' option via Settings Control Panel Java https://www.dropbox.com/s/vgc3ttjv45...ng-1.jpg?raw=1 But on trying to access the log file at C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile\AppData\L ocalLow\Sun\Java\Deployment\log I got the message: "Windows cannot access the specified device, path or file. You may not have the appropriate permissions to access the item." However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.* which reports no files in that folder. Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can test that I can access it in future? Terry, East Grinstead, UK The Deployment folder appears to be tracking versions of JRE that have been installed. Perhaps this is an IT department structure, as mine is empty and stops with the Java 6 release stream. (Even though my install for test purposes is Java 8. Java 9 installers appear to be 64-bit only). It's not application auditing. You can walk that path, level by level, in File Explorer, until you get there. That's how I could see inside it. If you want something you can run from Command Prompt, download the JAR file (which contains Java class files), and run the demo. You'd need to be CD'ed into the folder containing the .jar download, for this to work. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew/cou...mo/jfc/Java2D/ cd /d C:\path\to\downloaded\jar java -jar Java2Demo.jar Use file:exit in the Powerpoint slide-like window to quit. Java programs can run from the command line, or in a browser window. The browser is likely to have a permission explicitly for Java, or, be handled in the AddOns. That might allow command line (or program menu) invocation to continue, while disabling Java in the browser, to remove the attack surface from web surfing. ******* The best way to handle Java ? Remove it. From a security point of view, that's the least amount of work. Constant updates, automated disablement by the browser developers, it's otherwise about as much work as tending to Flash issues. And for what ? Simply record the release you're currently using, in case the topic comes up again some time. Then remove it. ******* You could use the Windows 10 bash shell, and recursively run the "file" command from the "find" command, then "grep" on every instance of the "java" keyword, to get some idea how many pieces of java stuff are on your machine. Other than that, I don't see any easy Windows-side means of doing so. Half the maintenance on a Windows machine, is removing attack surfaces that shouldn't have been put there in the first place. Obviously, business interests override security. HTH, Paul |
#4
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Logging Java usage?
Terry Pinnell wrote:
I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it actually does anything. Not unless you have Java-encoded apps that use that interpreter. I've just switched on the 'Enable logging' option via Settings Control Panel Java Works to tell you what happens when you run a Java app. Doesn't sound like you have any. However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.* which reports no files in that folder. No point in creating a log file for logging an app when you don't have any Java apps to run. Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can test that I can access it in future? Uninstall Java. You don't have any Java-encoded apps. If you ever hit a site that wants to push a Java app to your host to run locally, you can decide then whether to bother with that site's app or install Java again which includes Java Web Start to run the Java app offered by the site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Web_Start). JavaWS locally caches the Java apps and runs them locally. When you had a Java plug-in in your web browser, the apps got downloaded and were passed using the plug-in to the java.exe interpreter so those apps were also ran locally and external to the web browser. JavaWS has been around for well over a decade and Sun was prodding Java developers to move to using it. Not until plug-ins got killed in web browsers did Java programmers move off their collective keister to use JavaWS. Unless your host is a workstation on a corporate network where they have mission-critical apps still coded in Java (which means it is not your your host and not your choice if Java is installed or not), it's unlikely you will ever need Java any more than you will need Jscript, Python, Ruby, Ada, Modula, Perl, PHP, Tcl, Fortran, or Cobol. |
#5
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Logging Java usage?
VanguardLH wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote: I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it actually does anything. Not unless you have Java-encoded apps that use that interpreter. I've just switched on the 'Enable logging' option via Settings Control Panel Java Works to tell you what happens when you run a Java app. Doesn't sound like you have any. However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.* which reports no files in that folder. No point in creating a log file for logging an app when you don't have any Java apps to run. Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can test that I can access it in future? Uninstall Java. You don't have any Java-encoded apps. If you ever hit a site that wants to push a Java app to your host to run locally, you can decide then whether to bother with that site's app or install Java again which includes Java Web Start to run the Java app offered by the site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Web_Start). JavaWS locally caches the Java apps and runs them locally. When you had a Java plug-in in your web browser, the apps got downloaded and were passed using the plug-in to the java.exe interpreter so those apps were also ran locally and external to the web browser. JavaWS has been around for well over a decade and Sun was prodding Java developers to move to using it. Not until plug-ins got killed in web browsers did Java programmers move off their collective keister to use JavaWS. Unless your host is a workstation on a corporate network where they have mission-critical apps still coded in Java (which means it is not your your host and not your choice if Java is installed or not), it's unlikely you will ever need Java any more than you will need Jscript, Python, Ruby, Ada, Modula, Perl, PHP, Tcl, Fortran, or Cobol. Thanks all, very helpful - although some of it is over my head. I'm hesitating about uninstalling Java since getting this reply a short time ago to my similar post in the WindowsTenForums: "If you use internet based banking (online bank) it is often used to verified your identity, so do not uninstall it!" I do use online banking... Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
#6
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Logging Java usage?
Terry Pinnell wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: Terry Pinnell wrote: I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it actually does anything. Not unless you have Java-encoded apps that use that interpreter. I've just switched on the 'Enable logging' option via Settings Control Panel Java Works to tell you what happens when you run a Java app. Doesn't sound like you have any. However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.* which reports no files in that folder. No point in creating a log file for logging an app when you don't have any Java apps to run. Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can test that I can access it in future? Uninstall Java. You don't have any Java-encoded apps. If you ever hit a site that wants to push a Java app to your host to run locally, you can decide then whether to bother with that site's app or install Java again which includes Java Web Start to run the Java app offered by the site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Web_Start). JavaWS locally caches the Java apps and runs them locally. When you had a Java plug-in in your web browser, the apps got downloaded and were passed using the plug-in to the java.exe interpreter so those apps were also ran locally and external to the web browser. JavaWS has been around for well over a decade and Sun was prodding Java developers to move to using it. Not until plug-ins got killed in web browsers did Java programmers move off their collective keister to use JavaWS. Unless your host is a workstation on a corporate network where they have mission-critical apps still coded in Java (which means it is not your your host and not your choice if Java is installed or not), it's unlikely you will ever need Java any more than you will need Jscript, Python, Ruby, Ada, Modula, Perl, PHP, Tcl, Fortran, or Cobol. Thanks all, very helpful - although some of it is over my head. I'm hesitating about uninstalling Java since getting this reply a short time ago to my similar post in the WindowsTenForums: "If you use internet based banking (online bank) it is often used to verified your identity, so do not uninstall it!" I do use online banking... Terry, East Grinstead, UK Java _could_ be used as an infection vector. That is the main reason it is going away. Personally, if my bank required Java for online access and I wanted online access then I would find another bank. |
#7
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Logging Java usage?
Terry Pinnell wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: Terry Pinnell wrote: I've had Java installed on my PCs for decades. But I'm wondering if it actually does anything. Not unless you have Java-encoded apps that use that interpreter. I've just switched on the 'Enable logging' option via Settings Control Panel Java Works to tell you what happens when you run a Java app. Doesn't sound like you have any. However, using an elevated command prompt I was able to use dir *.* which reports no files in that folder. No point in creating a log file for logging an app when you don't have any Java apps to run. Q: Is there a way to trigger some trivial Java activity so that I can test that I can access it in future? Uninstall Java. You don't have any Java-encoded apps. If you ever hit a site that wants to push a Java app to your host to run locally, you can decide then whether to bother with that site's app or install Java again which includes Java Web Start to run the Java app offered by the site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Web_Start). JavaWS locally caches the Java apps and runs them locally. When you had a Java plug-in in your web browser, the apps got downloaded and were passed using the plug-in to the java.exe interpreter so those apps were also ran locally and external to the web browser. JavaWS has been around for well over a decade and Sun was prodding Java developers to move to using it. Not until plug-ins got killed in web browsers did Java programmers move off their collective keister to use JavaWS. Unless your host is a workstation on a corporate network where they have mission-critical apps still coded in Java (which means it is not your your host and not your choice if Java is installed or not), it's unlikely you will ever need Java any more than you will need Jscript, Python, Ruby, Ada, Modula, Perl, PHP, Tcl, Fortran, or Cobol. Thanks all, very helpful - although some of it is over my head. I'm hesitating about uninstalling Java since getting this reply a short time ago to my similar post in the WindowsTenForums: "If you use internet based banking (online bank) it is often used to verified your identity, so do not uninstall it!" I do use online banking... Paul says Java can be a malware infection vector. Actually it was the modelling for plug-ins that made the web browsers vulnerable to malware and why plug-in support went away hence why the Java plug-in is dead. However, Java Web Start has been used for about a decade (it was called something else before). Caching and managing local copies of Java apps has been available for a very long time. Any site that wants to use Java apps will have to present them as downloadable apps to the JavaWS client installed on your local PC when you install the Java RE or SDK. Why not actually go to the online banking site to see if they still use Java. Banks are slow to change but it has been a long time since I've seen any still using Java, especially since plug-in support died in the web browsers. The banks would have to change how they present their Java apps for delivery from their server to your JavaWS client (it's a new protocol used by the site that the JavaWS client supports). The protocol and .jnsp (Java Network Server Protocol) filetype are defined in the OS. I believe the JNSP file is a manifest of what will get delivered, not just the .java code alone. That "some site uses some protocol" is not sufficient reason to install anything that any site might want to use. |
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