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Creators Fall update problem



 
 
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  #16  
Old November 16th 17, 02:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Doomsdrzej[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 262
Default Registry Cleaners ( Creators Fall update problem)

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 17:56:39 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 19:28:10 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:11:09 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 15:28:03 -0500, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-11-15 15:24, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-11-15 13:44, Ken Blake wrote:
I strongly recommend against*all** registry cleaners. They are*all*
snake oil. Cleaning of the registry isn't needed and is dangerous.
Leave the registry alone and don't use any registry cleaner. Despite
what many people think, and what vendors of registry cleaning software
try to convince you of, having unused registry entries doesn't really
hurt you.

The risk of a serious problem caused by a registry cleaner erroneously
removing an entry you need is far greater than any potential benefit
it may have.

FWIW, I've use CCleaner's reg cleaner every now and then. It's very
mild, has never trashed anything I needed. It's useful for getting rid
of obsolete keys, the same ones that Revo Uninstall finds after the
program's uninstall has done its work.

YMMV.


It's probably the safest of all registry cleaners. But that doesn't
it's risk-free.

And there's really no particular advantage to getting rid of obsolete
keys.


CCleaner Pro on my side. I've been using it for years and have yet to
face any problem with it. Regardless of what some expert says, my own
experience with the registry (since Windows 95 beta) has been that an
uncleaned one will indeed slow the computer down and you'll face more
issues by NOT cleaning it of unnecessary keys.



My experience is completely different from yours.


As long as we're not calling each other liars, we can respectfully
disagree.

I've spent a lot of Windows 9x's years fixing other people's issues
with the registry. I remember going out with a girl from Ontario in
2005 who had signed up to Bell Sympatico and used their awful software
to connect to her DSL account from within Windows 98. Even though the
software was correctly installed, it gave her registry errors every
time she connected even after she uninstalled the software. Registry
cleaners would have been appreciated to say the least but luckily for
her, I was able to clean it all up without one.
Ads
  #17  
Old November 16th 17, 02:29 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Doomsdrzej[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 262
Default Registry Cleaners ( Creators Fall update problem)

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:44:34 +0000, Good Guy
wrote:

On 16/11/2017 00:28, Doomsdrzej wrote:
CCleaner Pro on my side. I've been using it for years and have yet to
face any problem with it.


It looks like you have a higher IQ than those idiots who blindly and
religiously say that Registry Cleaners are bad and carry risks. Those
people should never be allowed to make any changes on their machines.
It is rumoured that some of them have never formatted a HD in their life
for fear that they may not be able to install the operating system ever
again!!!

The old age is catching up with them and so they become senile
progressively.


I doubt that they're dumb, but I do believe that they have way too
much faith in Microsoft's product. While I like Windows and Office, I
don't trust either of them on security and find that other than those
two products (and the Xbox in general), Microsoft is awful at
improving and supporting its software. Windows Media Player, in
particular, is a joke.
  #18  
Old November 16th 17, 07:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
mechanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,064
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 18:32:32 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:00:23 -0700, KenW wrote:

Registry cleaners are VERY dangerous. I learned my lesson years ago
and only use one to search for settings I want to remove.


Backups help avoid risks.


Helps? Yes.

Avoids? No.

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer, the
backup will not have helped much.


Eh? You should make more effective backups!
  #19  
Old November 16th 17, 08:17 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
KenW[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 18:54:05 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 18:32:32 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:00:23 -0700, KenW wrote:

Registry cleaners are VERY dangerous. I learned my lesson years ago
and only use one to search for settings I want to remove.

Backups help avoid risks.


Helps? Yes.

Avoids? No.

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer, the
backup will not have helped much.


Eh? You should make more effective backups!



IMAGE IMAGE IMAGE is the only way to go. And individual date can
also be restored.


KenW
  #20  
Old November 17th 17, 12:32 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Zaghadka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 315
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer


No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't start
Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No. Unless you've got a cleaner that messes
with the EFI directory, which I've never heard of.

Can it hose the registry? Yes. Screw up your drivers to an unrecoverable
state? Sure. But can it hose the system so it won't POST and select boot
media? No.

In case of emergency, simply boot off your recovery CD/USB key for the
backup software you chose (learn which key you have to hold down to enter
a boot media menu, F8, F12, del, something). Just make sure you have
bootable media, make sure you can boot to it before you start messing
around, make sure the backup is accesible and restorable from that media
boot (drive letters will be all messed up, so practice locating it), and
make sure you take a _system image_, and you can get your system back.

If you take an image properly, and learn how to boot off a CD or USB
stick whose operating system can access that image, your system will boot
again because you can restore it to the exact state it was in when you
took the image.

It *is* scary as hell, it *will* take years off the life of an SSD (and
possibly YOU), but if your computer can't get to a boot media selection
menu, it isn't a problem with Windows. Your UEFI software or BIOS is
hosed. Cleaners can't break stuff like that, AFAIK.

(I have screwed up a BIOS chip or loaded a broken CMOS configuration
before. That's a computer that "won't boot." But cleaners don't touch
that.)

You may need to turn off secure boot in configuration to get it to work
(I've never seen that happen, but it's possible), but it will always work
if your backup image is sound, and your alternative OS media is tested.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten
  #21  
Old November 17th 17, 12:48 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,221
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:32:47 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:


On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:


If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer


No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't start
Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No.




We are using the term "boot" very differently. My definition is looser
than yours. If you want to change my message to "If using a registry
cleaner results in an computer that won't start Windows..." that's
fine with me. That's exactly what I meant.
  #22  
Old November 17th 17, 03:37 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
KenW[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:32:47 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer


No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't start
Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No. Unless you've got a cleaner that messes
with the EFI directory, which I've never heard of.

Can it hose the registry? Yes. Screw up your drivers to an unrecoverable
state? Sure. But can it hose the system so it won't POST and select boot
media? No.

In case of emergency, simply boot off your recovery CD/USB key for the
backup software you chose (learn which key you have to hold down to enter
a boot media menu, F8, F12, del, something). Just make sure you have
bootable media, make sure you can boot to it before you start messing
around, make sure the backup is accesible and restorable from that media
boot (drive letters will be all messed up, so practice locating it), and
make sure you take a _system image_, and you can get your system back.

If you take an image properly, and learn how to boot off a CD or USB
stick whose operating system can access that image, your system will boot
again because you can restore it to the exact state it was in when you
took the image.

It *is* scary as hell, it *will* take years off the life of an SSD (and
possibly YOU), but if your computer can't get to a boot media selection
menu, it isn't a problem with Windows. Your UEFI software or BIOS is
hosed. Cleaners can't break stuff like that, AFAIK.

(I have screwed up a BIOS chip or loaded a broken CMOS configuration
before. That's a computer that "won't boot." But cleaners don't touch
that.)

You may need to turn off secure boot in configuration to get it to work
(I've never seen that happen, but it's possible), but it will always work
if your backup image is sound, and your alternative OS media is tested.


Really ? Let me remember............the thing would not boot !


KenW
  #23  
Old November 17th 17, 11:42 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
mechanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,064
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:48:21 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:32:47 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer


No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't
start Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No.


We are using the term "boot" very differently. My definition is
looser than yours. If you want to change my message to "If using
a registry cleaner results in an computer that won't start
Windows..." that's fine with me. That's exactly what I meant.


Then maybe you should have said so instead of confusing everyone
with the impression that whoever it was didn't backup his system
properly.
  #24  
Old November 17th 17, 03:36 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:42:16 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:48:21 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:32:47 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer

No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't
start Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No.


We are using the term "boot" very differently. My definition is
looser than yours. If you want to change my message to "If using
a registry cleaner results in an computer that won't start
Windows..." that's fine with me. That's exactly what I meant.


Then maybe you should have said so instead of confusing everyone

snip

I knew exactly what Ken meant. I suspect most readers did.

  #25  
Old November 17th 17, 04:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,549
Default Creators Fall update problem

On 11/17/2017 8:36 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:42:16 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:48:21 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:32:47 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer

No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't
start Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No.

We are using the term "boot" very differently. My definition is
looser than yours. If you want to change my message to "If using
a registry cleaner results in an computer that won't start
Windows..." that's fine with me. That's exactly what I meant.


Then maybe you should have said so instead of confusing everyone

snip

I knew exactly what Ken meant. I suspect most readers did.



No confusion here, it was easy to understand.

Rene

  #26  
Old November 17th 17, 04:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,221
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:36:22 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:


On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:42:16 +0000, mechanic
wrote:


On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:48:21 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:


On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:32:47 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer

No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't
start Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No.

We are using the term "boot" very differently. My definition is
looser than yours. If you want to change my message to "If using
a registry cleaner results in an computer that won't start
Windows..." that's fine with me. That's exactly what I meant.


Then maybe you should have said so instead of confusing everyone

snip

I knew exactly what Ken meant. I suspect most readers did.




And I suspect that mechanic did too. He just wanted to argue with me.
  #27  
Old November 17th 17, 07:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
mechanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,064
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:38:51 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:36:22 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 10:42:16 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:48:21 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:32:47 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer

No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't
start Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No.

We are using the term "boot" very differently. My definition is
looser than yours. If you want to change my message to "If using
a registry cleaner results in an computer that won't start
Windows..." that's fine with me. That's exactly what I meant.

Then maybe you should have said so instead of confusing everyone

snip

I knew exactly what Ken meant. I suspect most readers did.


And I suspect that mechanic did too. He just wanted to argue with me.


All I argue for is clarity, which might help those of us who are not
so clairvoyant as Mssrs Jackson and Lamontagne.
  #28  
Old November 18th 17, 07:48 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Lucifer Morningstar[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 368
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 12:17:15 -0700, KenW
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 18:54:05 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 18:32:32 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:00:23 -0700, KenW wrote:

Registry cleaners are VERY dangerous. I learned my lesson years ago
and only use one to search for settings I want to remove.

Backups help avoid risks.

Helps? Yes.

Avoids? No.

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer, the
backup will not have helped much.


Eh? You should make more effective backups!



IMAGE IMAGE IMAGE is the only way to go. And individual date can
also be restored.


I have a laptop that used to run Vista.
One day it failed to boot to the desktop instead stopping at a blank
screen with only the mouse pointer.
Turns out to be a bug with Vista.
I restored the image I had made. Saved a lot of work.



KenW

  #29  
Old November 20th 17, 02:05 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Zaghadka
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 315
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:48:21 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:32:47 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer


No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't start
Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No.




We are using the term "boot" very differently. My definition is looser
than yours. If you want to change my message to "If using a registry
cleaner results in an computer that won't start Windows..." that's
fine with me. That's exactly what I meant.


Right you are, then.

I started with computers in the seventies. "Boot" means something very
specific to me. Booting is the difference between a functioning computer
that can be reconfigured or restored, and a brick that pretty much needs
to go back to the manufacturer for reflashing (there are ways to fix it,
but they are ugly). "Won't boot," in that sense, means that the firmware
doesn't work.

I just wanted to stress that registry cleaners can only **** up your
Windows, not literally damage your hardware. There are pieces of software
that can erase or damage the firmware. "Won't boot" inidcates damaged
hardware to me. Same goes for "Won't POST."

Breaking Windows is definitely bad enough, though...

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten
  #30  
Old November 20th 17, 06:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,221
Default Creators Fall update problem

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 19:05:24 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:


On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:48:21 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:


On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:32:47 -0600, Zaghadka
wrote:


On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:45:59 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

If using a registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer

No registry cleaner results in a computer that won't boot. Won't start
Windows? Sure. Won't boot? No.




We are using the term "boot" very differently. My definition is looser
than yours. If you want to change my message to "If using a registry
cleaner results in an computer that won't start Windows..." that's
fine with me. That's exactly what I meant.


Right you are, then.



OK, thanks.



I started with computers in the seventies.



I started in the 60s--in 1962, to be precise.



"Boot" means something very
specific to me. Booting is the difference between a functioning computer
that can be reconfigured or restored, and a brick that pretty much needs
to go back to the manufacturer for reflashing (there are ways to fix it,
but they are ugly). "Won't boot," in that sense, means that the firmware
doesn't work.



Back when I started with computers, they didn't have firmware--at
least not the ones I worked on.

I was talking about what almost everyone means by the term
today--starting Windows or booting Windows.



I just wanted to stress that registry cleaners can only **** up your
Windows, not literally damage your hardware.



Of course not. I didn't mean otherwise.



There are pieces of software
that can erase or damage the firmware. "Won't boot" inidcates damaged
hardware to me. Same goes for "Won't POST."

Breaking Windows is definitely bad enough, though...



Right--my point exactly. And yes, if you have an image of the C:
drive, you can have a recourse. But probably very few people who use
registry cleaners have such an image, which is why I said "If using a
registry cleaner results in an unbootable computer, the backup will
not have helped much."
 




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