How do I get rid of the document-type clutter in the Windows Right-Click New menu?

In message , ultred ragnusen
writes:
wrote:

Provided your OS doesn't use some _very_ odd control of the file system,
you should be able to access a d: partition by connecting the drive to
some other system.

Alas, your wisdom comes too late for me ... this time.
But from now on, since Microsoft is killing me with these failed mandatory
updates, I am forced to go back in time, oh, what? Twenty years? And keep
the operating system on partition C and the data on partition D. Sigh.

Not sure why you say back twenty years; AFAICR, Microsoft has _never_
defaulted to keeping data separate, quite the opposite. (Many years ago
when I bought my Samsung netbook, new, I was pleased to see that on
first use, it asked me how I wanted to allot the disc to two partitions,
although it defaulted to fifty-fifty; but that was obviously a Samsung
thing, not Microsoft.)


I'll look up how big a C: partition is for just Windows, were my current
"Windows" directory is 14.7GB.

For comparison: I had my XP one at some level for some time then
expanded it to 40 when I fitted a bigger drive; after many years of use,
it had got to having 5.71 free. For 7, I'd say 50 should be sufficient
if you're reasonably careful about keeping on top of where software puts
its data (AFAIK _all_ software _defaults_ to C, 100 if you're a bit
less paranoid (or if you have some software that's belligerent). On this
7 machine, I also have 50 allocated to C:, but that's because it's a
smallish drive; when I get a bigger one in a couple of days, I probably
_will_ give it 100. There's 21.6 free of that 50 at the moment, but I
haven't been running it _that_ long.

I assume "partition magic" is still the winner for partitioning after the
fact?

I'm not sure. I think older versions may not "play nice" with newer OSs.
I used to have it and never had any problems with it. 7 has its own, but
can't shrink C: beyond a point because it can't move certain files which
the third-party utilities can. When I wanted a PM on my XP machine, I
just went looking (maybe I'd forgotten the _name_ "Partition Magic"?),
and the EaseUS utility was the first one I found, and since that worked
fine, I didn't look further; so I can recommend it as "it works fine"
(and also has a UI very like the built-in one), but not as "the best",
as I haven't tried any others. (It works fine on 7 too.)

Or, assuming you can reinstall the (or any other) OS
on C: without upsetting the arrangement of partitions, you should be
able to access it on this computer.

Right now, with the failed windows update on the old (now removed) hard
drive, had the data been on a different partition than that damn operating
system, that would have been the way to save my data.

If you've got the old drive, can't you still access your "\data"
partition, by using it as an external drive (in a dock, or housing, or
one of those "cables" [which actually have electronics in them])?

Lesson learned. I thought these days were gone where we had to protect
ourselves from the Windows OS eating itself up periodically, but, at least
for me, those days have returned. Sigh.

I've never trusted them since after 98SElite - i. e. from when I
couldn't boot into DOS from a floppy and still get at the files (albeit
with short names). [OK, I could have run XP on FAT, and might have
considered it (though it came preinstalled NTFS on the netbook); I did
try a FAT partition on a 7 machine, but I found the "Everything" file
finder utility didn't "play nice" with it, and I like that utility. (I'm
not sure whether you can run 7 or later on FAT.)]

That's what I do - not just the OS, but installed software, on C:, data
on D:. I regularly (though not often enough of course) image C:, using
Macrium; I just copy (though SyncToy makes that faster) D:.

I realize most people make "images" but my philosophy is far simpler in
that I don't care about the installed programs - nor do I care about the
operating system - they can always be re-installed.

Indeed, but to reinstall all of them - and, more particularly, to apply
all the tweaks that make the software and OS work just how I like them -
would take a lot longer than restoring from an image (I generally just
image C: and any hidden partitions, not the whole drive); also, I
wouldn't actually _remember_ all the tweaks (they can be in obscure
places - who'd have known that the old desktop GUI feature controls
would be under "colour" in W7, for example!). And finally, it avoids
having to mess about with activation again. [Oh, I do _back up_ D:, just
not by imaging, just a copy (though using SyncToy which makes that a lot
faster); that way I can access the copy without needing to load software
that can look inside an image.]

All I care about is my data which I keep, separately, by design, in
C:\data, but which, in the future, will, of necessity, regrettably, be on a
different partition.

There is no other way to save myself from Microsoft chewing up the
operating system again, and again, and again. And again. It's frustrating,
so pardon my frustration.


It's only the data I care about, all of which is in the C:\data hierarchy.

I generally try to keep my data away from the OS - even when I was on XP.

From Win95 to Win2K to WinXP and beyond, I have long learned not to trust
the Microsoft operating system. Windows 7 had gained my trust, but, as I
found out recently, it was a false trust, so, I'm back to not trusting the
OS to not eat itself periodically. Sigh. I can't enumerate my pent-up
frustration with Microsoft - I can't say worse things about them than I am
thinking right now.

Well, made it more possible to get at it if you had to reinstall, even
if that meant scrapping C:, as long as it didn't screw the partition
table.

Yes. I have "re" learned the lesson that you have to protect your data from
Microsoft. It's an old lesson, which I had thought was from a bygone era -
but it has reared its ugly head yet again ... Damn you Microsoft.

Fooled me once (long ago), and then gained my trust with Windows 7.
And now fooled me twice with Windows 10.

I guess C:\data (though it would appear as something like F:\data) would
still have been accessible if you'd taken the disc out and connected it
to another computer. But IMO, and that of many, keeping data off C: is a
good policy. Not _everyone_ agrees, though.

Even though I don't like the inconvenience, my data, henceforth, will be
going on a separate partition from the operating system.

Is this a desktop (or one of those rare laptops with room for more than
one drive)? If so, a separate _drive_ is almost certainly better.

I assume partition magic is the way to go to create that partition after
See above.
the fact - if not - then I'll just back up my new data (there isn't much
anyway since all the good data is on the hdd that Microsoft Update ****ed
up) and re-install the OS.

As I've already asked, can't you get at it by accessing the drive
externally? I'm not clear whether you've only got one computer, and are
thus talking to us from it having re-set up everything. If that is the
case, then if you don't have such, I'd definitely get a dock, or one of
those "cables"; useful for all sorts of other reasons too (such as
archaeology of any old system you come across, especially if the dock
has an EIDE slot as well as a SATA one [the "cable"s usually are EIDE
with a SATA addition]). The dock I have - a red and black one - has SATA
and EIDE slots, and also card reader slots of lots of types, though I've
never used those. (I wouldn't get an enclosure, just for this purpose:
for such occasional use, they tend to be overpriced, and/or poorly
ventilated, and/or have insufficient power supply [docks and "cable"s
tend to come with a power supply, enclosures tend to use USB power].)

Looking for how big to make that C: os partition, I note my current Windows
directory takes up 14.7GB with 107K files, so, probably double that would
make a good partition size for C:, don't you think?

Hmm, 30. I'd fear that might get a bit tight. Having said that, there
are a lot of cheap small machines on the market now that only have a 32G
"drive" [actually SSD] altogether, so I presume it is anticipated that
those'll survive at least a few years of updates, unless the
manufacturers are even more cynical than I had thought. I'd never buy
one of those machines anyway, as that low a capacity would frighten me
(I had a look at one to see how much storage was free: with the OS and
what other junk was pre-installed, the answer was virtually none!), but
I suppose for those who expect to be permanently online and believe in
the cloud [AKA "keeping your data on someone else's computer"], they
might have their place. (They seem to be holding their place in the
market, anyway, so aren't just a fad.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Paxman, the man who has never used one sneer when three would do
- Elizabeth Day, RT 2015/5/2-8

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:41:20 GMT, Tim wrote:

Two points. Make a good estimate as to how much the OS is going to take,
then double or triple it to allow for the always present size creep. It is
a lot easier to set aside the space now than to try and enlarge a partition
later, especially when it is the first partition on the drive.

It's actually trivial these days (well, since about 1994, IIRC) to grow
or shrink partitions, or to move them around. The GUI-based partition
managers make it as simple as point and click until you're satisfied,
then click an Apply button to execute the changes.

My tool of choice is MiniTool Partition Wizard, but there are others.
https://www.partitionwizard.com/

"Tim" wrote

| Two points. Make a good estimate as to how much the OS is going to take,
| then double or triple it to allow for the always present size creep. It is
| a lot easier to set aside the space now than to try and enlarge a
partition
| later, especially when it is the first partition on the drive.
|
Good idea up to a point. On the other hand, if
one does housecleaning and doesn't store data
files primarily on C drive then it shouldn't be
necessary to create a giant, bloated C drive.
(Yes, you can resize later. But you probably won't.
You'll immediiately get used to having a 6-car
garage that you don't need and you'll end up
storing that toboggan that you meant to give
away 5 years ago, along with 1,000 other things
you don't need.)

I like to keep them smaller because I use disk
image backup. Currently I can fit a fresh XP, with
software included, onto a CD. A fresh Win7 with
software installed and set up will fit easily onto
2 DVDs. Win7 is monstrously bloated and prone
to unruly metastasis due to Microsoft's
sheer sloppiness and wastefulness, but that can't
be helped. Still, one can try to be orderly. That
allows for doing intermediary disk image backups
of minimal size.
It also allows for easily cleaning up by replacing
a disk image when winsxs grows into the 10s of GBs.

If you're going to do things like store docs and
photos on C drive then, yes, you may as well
make it as big as possible. And hopefully you
don't mind reinstalling the whole thing from scratch
periodically.

wrote:

Two points. Make a good estimate as to how much the OS is going to take,
then double or triple it to allow for the always present size creep. It is
a lot easier to set aside the space now than to try and enlarge a partition
later, especially when it is the first partition on the drive.

Microsoft, after a lull in Windows 7 reliability, has forced me, by this
Windows 10 Update horror, to again wall off the operating system from my
data so I will follow your advice.

My current brand new installation of Windows is taking up 14.7GB so I can
easily triple that for the primary partition.

I am currently on Windows 10. Microsoft created a directory tree for me
under \users, which I don't use at all. I use a directory on my data drive
for all my user functions. I have been doing this back to when the user
account was created under \Documents and settings, and have had no
problems.

I have long ago been disabused by all the clutter put into the standard
Microsoft Windows-created directories from putting *anything* into a
directory known to the world.

The C:\Users directory is one of the most polluted on the system, although
the various program-files directories are also polluted by badly written
programs that don't store things where you tell them to (e.g., bloatware
attached to iTunes never goes where you tell it to go).

My philosophy is simple and easy to manage.

Anything that comes with Windows, never use because programs will spit and
poop all over those directories such that they quickly become a sewer like
a NYC sidewalk during a garbage strike.

wrote:

You think you don't, but you probably are doing, even if you don't want
to - your desktop and start menu are probably there, for example.

I found an easy way to keep the Start Menu out of the roaming directory,
which was to put a /link/ to the start menu there, where the actual files
are in C:\data\menu\{the actual menu files}.

The rule to follow is that if the directory exists after an installation of
Windows, you should /never/ use that directory for anything you care about.

The reason you should never use an existing known-to-programs directory is
that they pollute it like a NYC sidewalk is polluted, each program being
like each person, following their own rules as to what is litter or not.

wrote:

It's actually trivial these days (well, since about 1994, IIRC) to grow
or shrink partitions, or to move them around. The GUI-based partition
managers make it as simple as point and click until you're satisfied,
then click an Apply button to execute the changes.

My tool of choice is MiniTool Partition Wizard, but there are others.
https://www.partitionwizard.com/

Thank you for that partitioning freeware suggestion.

I wasn't sure if partition magic or something else is the tool of choice
nowadays for dynamic partitioning - so I'll try this one out.

ultred ragnusen wrote:
wrote:

It's actually trivial these days (well, since about 1994, IIRC) to grow
or shrink partitions, or to move them around. The GUI-based partition
managers make it as simple as point and click until you're satisfied,
then click an Apply button to execute the changes.

My tool of choice is MiniTool Partition Wizard, but there are others.
https://www.partitionwizard.com/

Thank you for that partitioning freeware suggestion.

I wasn't sure if partition magic or something else is the tool of choice
nowadays for dynamic partitioning - so I'll try this one out.

Limitations of Partition Magic might be:

1) No GPT support.
2) Rather limited imagination about CHS parameters.
Would not deal well with a 512e disk "realigned" for WinXP.
Would throw errors on the screen complaining about
such geometry issues, to the point of exiting.

On the plus side, the operations Partition Magic did
support, usually worked. Which is a lot more than you
can say for other software.

Any time you dial in a new Partition Management utility,
make a backup first. There are some very bad software
developers out there, people whose imagination outstrips
their technical chops. Your job is to test these utilities
enough so there won't be surprises.

One free Partition Manager managed to corrupt a FAT32
partition while moving it. When stuff like that happens,
you should be running CHKDSK on the disk first, just
to make sure there aren't latent faults the utility
cannot handle.

As yesterday, Windows 10 was showing me "bitmap issues" on
NTFS, and a backup utility was willing to back up a damaged
partition, you really need to examine the output of CHKDSK
carefully. Run CHKDSK in a Command Prompt window, and
actually read the output. Occasionally you will be
surprised to see what CHKDSK will "give a pass to",
which endangers the backup or Partition Management
operation you're about to do.

Currently, when Windows 10 makes an NTFS partition, the
$MFTMIRR has a problem. If you have a dual boot machine,
"make" new partitions in something other than Windows 10
(like Windows 7). If you only have Windows 10, no problem,
just download TestDisk and "repair" the %MFTMIRR after
making a partition. I don't think CHKDSK particularly
cares, but Linux won't mount a partition with a damaged
MFTMIRR. I try to keep all my disks in "as compatible as possible"
operating state, just to save on "false starts" when doing
stuff.

It's actually a lot harder today, to keep a well maintained
partition, than it was three years ago!

Paul

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:48:09 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote:

wrote:

It's actually trivial these days (well, since about 1994, IIRC) to grow
or shrink partitions, or to move them around. The GUI-based partition
managers make it as simple as point and click until you're satisfied,
then click an Apply button to execute the changes.

My tool of choice is MiniTool Partition Wizard, but there are others.
https://www.partitionwizard.com/

Thank you for that partitioning freeware suggestion.

I wasn't sure if partition magic or something else is the tool of choice
nowadays for dynamic partitioning - so I'll try this one out.

I should have mentioned that I use the free version.

Pay attention to the issues and suggestions from Paul!

Having said that, I'm sure I've resized, moved, created, and deleted
disk partitions well over a thousand times in the past 25 years and I've
never had a problem, as far as I can remember, regardless of the tool
I've used or the disk geometry. The filesystem (NTFS vs FAT, for
example), is irrelevant. Just because I haven't seen any issues doesn't
mean you won't.

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:41:20 GMT, Tim wrote:

Two points. Make a good estimate as to how much the OS is going to take,
then double or triple it to allow for the always present size creep. It is
a lot easier to set aside the space now than to try and enlarge a partition
later, especially when it is the first partition on the drive.

It's actually trivial these days (well, since about 1994, IIRC) to grow
or shrink partitions, or to move them around. The GUI-based partition
managers make it as simple as point and click until you're satisfied,
then click an Apply button to execute the changes.

Even the one built-in to W7 (and possibly earlier?) isn't bad, though I
did find it couldn't shrink C: below where some "immovable" file was,
which tends to be around the midpoint of the disc. (Sometimes running it
twice - with a few restarts - moves the immovable file, but if you're
going to do that, you may as well use one of the others.)

My tool of choice is MiniTool Partition Wizard, but there are others.
https://www.partitionwizard.com/

https://www.easeus.com/download/free-software.html

(Read Paul's post!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

" ... but ... on the sub-ether radio, [it said] you're dead!"
"Yeah, that's right, I just haven't stopped moving yet." (link episode)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:


I am currently on Windows 10. Microsoft created a directory tree for
me under \users, which I don't use at all. I use a directory on my
data drive

You think you don't, but you probably are doing, even if you don't
want to - your desktop and start menu are probably there, for example.

You are right. I have a My Documents icon that I use to access all the
information on my data drive. When I download things it does try to default
to my user directory on the system drive. I just don't use it unless the
system forces me too.

Char Jackson wrote in
news
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:41:20 GMT, Tim wrote:

Two points. Make a good estimate as to how much the OS is going to
take, then double or triple it to allow for the always present size
creep. It is a lot easier to set aside the space now than to try and
enlarge a partition later, especially when it is the first partition
on the drive.

It's actually trivial these days (well, since about 1994, IIRC) to
grow or shrink partitions, or to move them around. The GUI-based
partition managers make it as simple as point and click until you're
satisfied, then click an Apply button to execute the changes.

My tool of choice is MiniTool Partition Wizard, but there are others.
https://www.partitionwizard.com/



You are probably correct. I haven't tried to do that in several years. But
my main reasoning is that why take the chance and have to move everything
else on the drive down with the associated risks when I can just reserve
the space at the beginning. Also, it could wind up that by the time I want
to enlarge the C:\ drive there isn't enough room left on the hard drive to
allow me to do so. My way you will always know when you are approaching the
limits of your data drive and can plan ahead to pare it down or add another
drive, or - God forbid - have to close the current hard drive to a larger
one if you are in a position where you can not add a second drive, ie a
laptop.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 03:47:28 GMT, Tim wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:


I am currently on Windows 10. Microsoft created a directory tree for
me under \users, which I don't use at all. I use a directory on my
data drive

You think you don't, but you probably are doing, even if you don't
want to - your desktop and start menu are probably there, for example.

You are right. I have a My Documents icon that I use to access all the
information on my data drive. When I download things it does try to default
to my user directory on the system drive. I just don't use it unless the
system forces me too.

I know that most people around here will recoil in horror if I mention
Libraries, but they are an excellent way to deal with your scenario.

The Libraries hierarchy already has a Documents folder, but it points to
the actual Documents folder in your user profile, so what you do is add
your alternate Documents folder on your data drive and make that folder
the default save location. Presto, the folders in your user profile are
untouched and going forward all new docs and saved docs automatically go
to your data drive. Do the same for Downloads or whatever else you want.

I think Libraries are excellent, but like I said, most folks around here
never bothered to learn how they work so they avoid them like the
plague. Their loss, of course.

wrote:

You are right. I have a My Documents icon that I use to access all the
information on my data drive. When I download things it does try to default
to my user directory on the system drive. I just don't use it unless the
system forces me too.

Speaking of "My Documents", "My Pictures", "My Music", "My Programs", etc.,
these are great 'ideas' for Microsoft to help the hoi polloi figure out
where to put their "types" of data.

The fatal flaw in all of them isn't the idea - it's the fact that a billion
programs pollute them and keeping them clean is like trying to keep a NYC
sidewalk clean on your own.

It's easier to just put your stuff in the back yard, where nobody pollutes
it, but all those "My Stuff" links are still the defaults - where you can
change those defaults - but it's easiest - I think - to just put shortcuts
to your "real" data in those default folders.

So, in reality, I /do/ put stuff in those Micrsosoft folders - but that
stuff is always just a link to my "real" stuff.

"ultred ragnusen" wrote

| Speaking of "My Documents", "My Pictures", "My Music", "My Programs",
etc.,
| these are great 'ideas' for Microsoft to help the hoi polloi figure out
| where to put their "types" of data.
|
| The fatal flaw in all of them isn't the idea - it's the fact that a
billion
| programs pollute them

That's actually the intention. The personal folders
are designed for people who have no idea where any
of their files are. People don't usually use those
folders. Software uses those folders. Ask someone
if they've backed up their MS Word docs and they'll
likely answer something like, "I don't know, but Word
knows where they are."

The other reason for those folders is because
Windows is designed to be a corporate workstation.
It's made for use by people who are using the computer
to do work and have no right to access anything but
the files they're working on. Normal user file restrictions
block access to just about everything else. The only
unrestricted access in in the personal app data folders.

So the idea is that a corporate lackey opens Word,
writes a doc, saves it, sends it, or re-edits it.....
as their job requires..... and never needs to access
anything but Word itself to do all that. People are
not intended to understand anything further. They're
certainly not intended to open Windows Explorer and
start poking around in folders. So software is doing
what it's supposed to do, following Microsoft's
"best practice" guidelines by storing files in your
personal folder unless you specify otherwise.

wrote:

I know that most people around here will recoil in horror if I mention
Libraries, but they are an excellent way to deal with your scenario.

I admit I'm confused about your use the word "libraries" - since you are
seemingly using the word as if it's something different than a mere
collection of on-the-spot "search" results (which is how I've heard the
term used up until now).

The Libraries hierarchy already has a Documents folder, but it points to
the actual Documents folder in your user profile, so what you do is add
your alternate Documents folder on your data drive and make that folder
the default save location.

There's a "Libraries hierarchy"?
I have to google that... click ... click... browse ... browse ...

Hmmmmmm....... I still don't know what a "Libraries hierarchy" is.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/Clipboard01.jpg

I apologize for missing the point - so - can you clarify what exactly is
this "Libraries hierarchy" if it's not
a. Just the result of an ad-hoc search (like an iTunes song "library")
b. Is it the garbage that pollutes the users' hierarchy?

For example, this is the garbage that pollutes my user hierarchy (none of
which is anything I've ever put there since I never put anything there).
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/17/Clipboard02.jpg

(Yes, I know the vimrc was put there by VIM, but since I use the defaults,
I left it there. Had I changed the vimrc, I would have put the vimrc
elsewhere after figuring out how to redirect where VIM looks for it, which
I don't know how to do anyway.)

Presto, the folders in your user profile are
untouched and going forward all new docs and saved docs automatically go
to your data drive. Do the same for Downloads or whatever else you want.

I don't understand the result of the "presto", but I believe that you have
a good idea because I like what you say are the results - which - if I
understand you - are that you "can" use your user folder without fear of it
being polluted like a NYC sidewalk.

I think Libraries are excellent, but like I said, most folks around here
never bothered to learn how they work so they avoid them like the
plague. Their loss, of course.

Can you point us to a link that explains these "libraries"?

When I think of a "library", I think of it as the Apple bull**** that
limits what you can put on an iPod or of the concept of running an ad-hoc
search for, say, *.mp3, in order to find all the music files scattered
about on your computer.

You seem to be using a different meaning for this term "libraries" than I
am familiar with. Maybe others are confused also?