A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows 7 » Windows 7 Forum
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

"Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??



 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 18th 19, 09:24 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??



Doing backups. Very simple, one would think, a simple batchfile, the
important line of which is:

Robocopy c:\ I:backup /s /s /xo /XJ /np /ndl /w:1 /r:1 /Tee
/Log+:%Logfile%.rtf /xf *.bak *.lnk *.cat *.regtrans-ms *.tmp
pagefile.sys hiberfil.sys /xd C:\Windows

(Which being translated means copy drive C:\ to directory Backup on
drive I, include subdirectories, only copy those changed, exclude
junctions, don't show progress {% copied} wait 1 second if something
'fails" and repeat once if it does, where to log all this, don't copy
bak link &c do not copy anything in Directory "C:\Windows". )

It works. (Yeah!)

Unfortunately, despite having "emptied the recycle bin", there are
7 gigs of files copied from said "empty" recycle bin to
I:\Backup\$Recycle. And directory I:\Backup is now a hidden system
directory.
Apparently, when you copy one of the magic directories, it changes
everything else to also being a magic directory. I think that if I
had the toggle
/a-:SH
(unset attributes System and Hidden)
to the command line, it might work "right"

But that also leads to the other cause of my screaming.

From the command line, on drive D: there is a directory D:\Music.

But in the navigation panels, there is no such directory. Just
the Magic Name "My Music." Naturally,when you go and build a
batchfile to copy from "My Music" it can't find it. but when you do
get the command line correct, it copies not to I:\BackupD\Music, but
to "I:\BackupD\My Music". Never mind that you already have a
perfectly good directory which already has some of the files already
backuped, which need the rest of them copied over. Nope, duplication
of effort is the way Microsoft rolls.

And they want to tell me that this is "improving my computer
experience." Fnord, don't get me started on trying to fix the "no new
user profile" issue I'm having. I could have bought a new refurbished
computer and be up and running by now!

Arrgh.


--
pyotr filipivich
The question was asked: "Is Hindsight overrated?"
In retrospect, it appears to be.
Ads
  #2  
Old January 18th 19, 10:13 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
JJ[_11_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 744
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:24:18 -0800, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Doing backups. Very simple, one would think, a simple batchfile, the
important line of which is:

Robocopy c:\ I:backup /s /s /xo /XJ /np /ndl /w:1 /r:1 /Tee
/Log+:%Logfile%.rtf /xf *.bak *.lnk *.cat *.regtrans-ms *.tmp
pagefile.sys hiberfil.sys /xd C:\Windows

(Which being translated means copy drive C:\ to directory Backup on
drive I, include subdirectories, only copy those changed, exclude
junctions, don't show progress {% copied} wait 1 second if something
'fails" and repeat once if it does, where to log all this, don't copy
bak link &c do not copy anything in Directory "C:\Windows". )

It works. (Yeah!)

Unfortunately, despite having "emptied the recycle bin", there are
7 gigs of files copied from said "empty" recycle bin to
I:\Backup\$Recycle. And directory I:\Backup is now a hidden system
directory.


You should exclude the $RECYCLE.BIN directory using the /XD switch.

Apparently, when you copy one of the magic directories, it changes
everything else to also being a magic directory. I think that if I
had the toggle
/a-:SH
(unset attributes System and Hidden)
to the command line, it might work "right"

But that also leads to the other cause of my screaming.

From the command line, on drive D: there is a directory D:\Music.

But in the navigation panels, there is no such directory. Just
the Magic Name "My Music." Naturally,when you go and build a
batchfile to copy from "My Music" it can't find it. but when you do
get the command line correct, it copies not to I:\BackupD\Music, but
to "I:\BackupD\My Music". Never mind that you already have a
perfectly good directory which already has some of the files already
backuped, which need the rest of them copied over. Nope, duplication
of effort is the way Microsoft rolls.

And they want to tell me that this is "improving my computer
experience." Fnord, don't get me started on trying to fix the "no new
user profile" issue I'm having. I could have bought a new refurbished
computer and be up and running by now!

Arrgh.


These "magic" directories which includes the Recycle Bin, are shell's file
system based special folders. Their characteristic is that they have a
DESKTOP.INI file and the directory either have a System or ReadOnly
attribute.

Those with System attribute are system special folders such as the Recycle
Bin, the (.NET) Assembly folder (in C:\Windows\assembly), the Fonts folder,
etc.

Those without the System attribute are non system special folders such as
the user's Document, Picture, Music, etc.

When the DESKTOP.INI file contains a specific definition (or setting, if I
might say), it makes the shell (also Explorer) use a different name for the
folder (just for display). The setting is `LocalizedResourceName` under the
`[.ShellClassInfo]` section. e.g. for the `Pictures` directory:

[.ShellClassInfo]
LocalizedResourceName=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell 32.dll,-21779

The text after the equal sign is the value of that setting. The value is a
string and can be anything as long as it doesn't include any character which
is invalid for a file name. If it starts with `@` like above, it means that
the value is located in a DLL file as a string resource with an index number
which is specified after the file path and the comma character.

Changing the value to e.g. `Images` will make the shell+Explorer shows that
directory as `Images`. Removing the setting will make the shell+Explorer
shows the directory name as is. Refreshing the folder view is required after
changing the DESKTOP.INI file.
  #3  
Old January 18th 19, 10:17 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Doing backups. Very simple, one would think, a simple batchfile, the
important line of which is:

Robocopy c:\ I:backup /s /s /xo /XJ /np /ndl /w:1 /r:1 /Tee
/Log+:%Logfile%.rtf /xf *.bak *.lnk *.cat *.regtrans-ms *.tmp
pagefile.sys hiberfil.sys /xd C:\Windows

(Which being translated means copy drive C:\ to directory Backup on
drive I, include subdirectories, only copy those changed, exclude
junctions, don't show progress {% copied} wait 1 second if something
'fails" and repeat once if it does, where to log all this, don't copy
bak link &c do not copy anything in Directory "C:\Windows". )

It works. (Yeah!)

Unfortunately, despite having "emptied the recycle bin", there are
7 gigs of files copied from said "empty" recycle bin to
I:\Backup\$Recycle. And directory I:\Backup is now a hidden system
directory.
Apparently, when you copy one of the magic directories, it changes
everything else to also being a magic directory. I think that if I
had the toggle
/a-:SH
(unset attributes System and Hidden)
to the command line, it might work "right"

But that also leads to the other cause of my screaming.

From the command line, on drive D: there is a directory D:\Music.

But in the navigation panels, there is no such directory. Just
the Magic Name "My Music." Naturally,when you go and build a
batchfile to copy from "My Music" it can't find it. but when you do
get the command line correct, it copies not to I:\BackupD\Music, but
to "I:\BackupD\My Music". Never mind that you already have a
perfectly good directory which already has some of the files already
backuped, which need the rest of them copied over. Nope, duplication
of effort is the way Microsoft rolls.

And they want to tell me that this is "improving my computer
experience." Fnord, don't get me started on trying to fix the "no new
user profile" issue I'm having. I could have bought a new refurbished
computer and be up and running by now!

Arrgh.


Without responding to every symptom here, I'd
start by not copying desktop.ini. That will reduce
some of the magic, as desktop.ini has a shell32.dll
call in it. When Explorer is asked to view a folder,
sometimes it's also responding to the shell32.dll call
instance.

Objects have "permissions" as well as "attributes". One
of the "attributes" is Hidden. Another attribute is
called System. If you copy a Hidden item and ask Robocopy
to "preserve" every aspect, I would expect the Hidden
attribute to be copied.

If you remove all the decorations, it might affect your
attempts to copy the materials back later (in one giant
copy command). If your objective is *just* file contents,
then you could chop away at other aspects of the copy,
just keeping the data clusters.

The recycle bin is special, so don't expect looking in there
via Explorer to be enlightening. But you could attempt to
list the drive with nfi.exe and see how the bits and
pieces in there fit together.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150329...us/oem3sr2.zip

(administrator command prompt)

cd /d %userprofile%\Downloads
nfi c: list.txt
notepad list.txt

The other tool that is your friend, is fsutil (for NTFS, less
so for FAT32). It has a number of features you might use.

fsutil usn readdata some.txt
....
File Attributes 0x20

FILE_ATTRIBUTE_READONLY = 1 (0x1)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_HIDDEN = 2 (0x2)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_SYSTEM = 4 (0x4)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_DIRECTORY = 16 (0x10)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_ARCHIVE = 32 (0x20) === in my example, only "archive" is set
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL = 128 (0x80)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_TEMPORARY = 256 (0x100)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_SPARSE_FILE = 512 (0x200)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_REPARSE_POINT = 1024 (0x400)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_COMPRESSED = 2048 (0x800)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_OFFLINE = 4096 (0x1000)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NOT_CONTENT_INDEXED = 8192 (0x2000)
FILE_ATTRIBUTE_ENCRYPTED = 16384 (0x4000)

With "nfi" you can dig up interesting path names.

With "fsutil" you can dig up the attributes of the path item.

Paul

  #4  
Old January 19th 19, 03:42 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

JJ on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 04:13:21 +0700 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:24:18 -0800, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Doing backups. Very simple, one would think, a simple batchfile, the
important line of which is:

Robocopy c:\ I:backup /s /s /xo /XJ /np /ndl /w:1 /r:1 /Tee
/Log+:%Logfile%.rtf /xf *.bak *.lnk *.cat *.regtrans-ms *.tmp
pagefile.sys hiberfil.sys /xd C:\Windows

(Which being translated means copy drive C:\ to directory Backup on
drive I, include subdirectories, only copy those changed, exclude
junctions, don't show progress {% copied} wait 1 second if something
'fails" and repeat once if it does, where to log all this, don't copy
bak link &c do not copy anything in Directory "C:\Windows". )

It works. (Yeah!)

Unfortunately, despite having "emptied the recycle bin", there are
7 gigs of files copied from said "empty" recycle bin to
I:\Backup\$Recycle. And directory I:\Backup is now a hidden system
directory.


You should exclude the $RECYCLE.BIN directory using the /XD switch.


I did in subsequent iterations.

But the fact remains, an "empty" recycle.bin had 7 gigs of files
in it. I know that neither DOS nor Windows actually erases the file,
but just marks the directory entry as "not in use". But this seems
to be ... wrong. Apparently the directory entry is just moved, and
the subsequent file is sill "intact", form the first block onward.

OTOH, I did find out how to actually delete tose files and
actually empty the recycle bin. Again, from the command line. "I'm
having so much fun."
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #5  
Old January 19th 19, 03:42 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default "upward" was "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

Paul on Fri, 18 Jan 2019 16:17:42 -0500 typed
in alt.windows7.general the following:

Arrgh.


Without responding to every symptom here, I'd
start by not copying desktop.ini. That will reduce
some of the magic, as desktop.ini has a shell32.dll
call in it. When Explorer is asked to view a folder,
sometimes it's also responding to the shell32.dll call
instance.

Objects have "permissions" as well as "attributes". One
of the "attributes" is Hidden. Another attribute is
called System. If you copy a Hidden item and ask Robocopy
to "preserve" every aspect, I would expect the Hidden
attribute to be copied.


I do not have a problem with copying Hidden directory
C:\ProgramData
or even hidden system directory
C:\$Recycle.Bin
and having it keep their permissions/attributes/ "other". so that
I:\Backup\ProgramData
is a hidden directory and
I:\Backup\$Recycle.Bin
is a hidden system directory. But why make I:\BackUp also a hidden
system directory? ("I'm sure it all makes sense. Not to me, but I'm
sure it does to somebody.") I realize I'm asking this more to
complain, rather than because I actually want to know. ("I'd ask, but
then they might tell me, and then I would really be confused.")

If you remove all the decorations, it might affect your
attempts to copy the materials back later (in one giant
copy command). If your objective is *just* file contents,
then you could chop away at other aspects of the copy,
just keeping the data clusters.


If I am reading this correctly,. if I do not copy desktop.ini a
lot of the weirdness/magic is likely not to propagate. This might
solve my main problem.

All this is because I decided I needed to have a second User
account to help keep separate my personal activities from my Official
Acts due to now being An Office Holder (Rah!).

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #6  
Old January 19th 19, 11:54 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Java Jive
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

On 19/01/2019 02:42, pyotr filipivich wrote:

But the fact remains, an "empty" recycle.bin had 7 gigs of files
in it.


Could have been files from another user, or yourself running a previous
version of Windows before an upgrade or reinstallation. Although you
may have to jump through some Permissions hoops, such as giving the
Administrators group ownership and then Full Control of the Recycle Bin
and all its subs, you can just delete all the sub-directories to get rid
of them, but be aware that on a shared computer they may be someone
else's files. Once done, Windows should automatically remake the
sub-directories the next time you or any other user deletes some files,
or perhaps sooner.
  #7  
Old January 19th 19, 04:04 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:54:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 19/01/2019 02:42, pyotr filipivich wrote:

But the fact remains, an "empty" recycle.bin had 7 gigs of files
in it.


Could have been files from another user, or yourself running a previous
version of Windows before an upgrade or reinstallation. Although you
may have to jump through some Permissions hoops, such as giving the
Administrators group ownership and then Full Control of the Recycle Bin
and all its subs, you can just delete all the sub-directories to get rid
of them, but be aware that on a shared computer they may be someone
else's files. Once done, Windows should automatically remake the
sub-directories the next time you or any other user deletes some files,
or perhaps sooner.


In my experience, when I empty the Recycle Bin, Windows frequently
leaves many files there as orphans, although the visual representation
of the Recycle Bin shows it to be empty. So, prompted by this thread, I
did an experiment just now.

With 87.5GB of files in the Recycle Bin, I used the normal context menu
to empty it. I was greeted with the 'Are you sure' dialog, then the
visual representation of files being deleted/removed, and finally the
icon changed to its Empty version. All good so far.

Next, I ran Treesize Free to check the size of the 'empty' Recycle Bin.
Windows said it was empty, but Treesize Free says it has 7.7GB, or 171
files, still there. That issue is not unusual. Like I said above,
Windows pretty frequently leaves orphans behind like that. Just now, I
used Treesize Free to delete them. I advise not touching the desktop.ini
file, nor the *-1000 account marker (or any other account markers).

Side note: for the paranoid among us, (not me, but you know who you
are), just emptying the Recycle Bin is no guarantee that you've gotten
rid of everything in the Recycle Bin. Use another tool, Treesize Free
for example, to get a second opinion.

https://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/

--

Char Jackson
  #8  
Old January 19th 19, 05:30 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:54:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 19/01/2019 02:42, pyotr filipivich wrote:
But the fact remains, an "empty" recycle.bin had 7 gigs of files
in it.

Could have been files from another user, or yourself running a previous
version of Windows before an upgrade or reinstallation. Although you
may have to jump through some Permissions hoops, such as giving the
Administrators group ownership and then Full Control of the Recycle Bin
and all its subs, you can just delete all the sub-directories to get rid
of them, but be aware that on a shared computer they may be someone
else's files. Once done, Windows should automatically remake the
sub-directories the next time you or any other user deletes some files,
or perhaps sooner.


In my experience, when I empty the Recycle Bin, Windows frequently
leaves many files there as orphans, although the visual representation
of the Recycle Bin shows it to be empty. So, prompted by this thread, I
did an experiment just now.

With 87.5GB of files in the Recycle Bin, I used the normal context menu
to empty it. I was greeted with the 'Are you sure' dialog, then the
visual representation of files being deleted/removed, and finally the
icon changed to its Empty version. All good so far.

Next, I ran Treesize Free to check the size of the 'empty' Recycle Bin.
Windows said it was empty, but Treesize Free says it has 7.7GB, or 171
files, still there. That issue is not unusual. Like I said above,
Windows pretty frequently leaves orphans behind like that. Just now, I
used Treesize Free to delete them. I advise not touching the desktop.ini
file, nor the *-1000 account marker (or any other account markers).

Side note: for the paranoid among us, (not me, but you know who you
are), just emptying the Recycle Bin is no guarantee that you've gotten
rid of everything in the Recycle Bin. Use another tool, Treesize Free
for example, to get a second opinion.

https://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/


If you're paranoid, of course you're not using a computer.

Deleting stuff, does not absolutely need a "trip through
the Recycle Bin". It's possible to delete things directly.
The Recycle Bin was created as an intermediate storage
location for the "Are you sure?" concept :-) A concept
that's been around for a long time. On some systems,
people even emulate that via shell alias, because the OS
lacks such a feature for easy use.

On a totally unrelated issue, you can use Heidi Eraser if
you want to attempt to clear the contents of the data
clusters themselves. When you "delete" files using any
normal mechanism, only the $MFT file entry state is
modified. The data clusters are still on the disk, and
this is because it's "unscalable" to be overwriting
every sector on a computer delete operation. Heidi Eraser
as I understand it, fixes that by overwriting all the
data clusters. And just for the record, it's hard to
do that properly - if you're paranoid it's just easier
to not use a computer. You can use sdelete as a backstop,
available on Sysinternals (that's what I use to
zero out the white space on virtual machines before
compacting them). For even a relatively tiny volume,
it can take 15 hours for that to run. The paranoid
must be patient. It's a two pass erase, where the first
pass runs at disk speed, while the second pass that
"cleans" files stored directly in the $MFT, takes forever.

Paul
  #9  
Old January 19th 19, 06:52 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,226
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

pyotr filipivich wrote:

[Myriad of problems when using robocopy to make backup of C:.]

It seems to me that robocopy is not the best tool for making backup of
a system drive (C.

I've always used a real backup program, i.e. a program designed for
that purpose - for the last five years Cobian Backup - and I have never
had the kind of problems you describe.

robocopy ('Robust File Copy for Windows') is a copy program, not a
backup program.

Perhaps using the right tool for the job will result in less
"screaming", "the way Microsoft rolls", "Fnord", "Arrgh.", etc.! :-)
  #10  
Old January 19th 19, 08:10 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

Frank Slootweg wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

[Myriad of problems when using robocopy to make backup of C:.]

It seems to me that robocopy is not the best tool for making backup of
a system drive (C.


Exactly. The C: partition has too many "land mines"
to make OS backups this way into an easy option.

Back in the Win98 days, with say FAT32, such a copy would
have been simple. Fewer permission/attribute/crazy-file-system-features
to worry about.

I have no problem recommending Robocopy for data partition backups.
Nothing wrong with that. System Volume Information is the only
potential land mine there.

You *could* manually make a shadow copy of C: and interact
with the shadow copy. But that doesn't solve any permission
problems, and merely prevents a Robocopy attempt to copy
the pagefile, from failing because "file is busy". There
could remain, any number of *other* failure codes when
you touch the pagefile :-) At least it would be funny
to watch, without any expectation it could succeed.

Regular backup software is just soooo much better for this.

I also wouldn't have a problem with copying my Downloads folder
using Robocopy. Anything where there aren't any Junction Points
underneath, should be "easy". You can "skip" copying Junction Points,
but remember to wear your pointy hat when figuring out exactly
what just got backed up. Even if an "automated" copy procedure
looks like it's working, you could have wide swathes of stuff
not getting copied. People don't seem to worry about that
aspect too much, the "missing files" problem. Robocopy does
generate a log, so you can marvel at what it skipped or copied.

Paul
  #11  
Old January 19th 19, 08:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

Char Jackson on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 09:04:48 -0600
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:54:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 19/01/2019 02:42, pyotr filipivich wrote:

But the fact remains, an "empty" recycle.bin had 7 gigs of files
in it.


Could have been files from another user, or yourself running a previous
version of Windows before an upgrade or reinstallation. Although you
may have to jump through some Permissions hoops, such as giving the
Administrators group ownership and then Full Control of the Recycle Bin
and all its subs, you can just delete all the sub-directories to get rid
of them, but be aware that on a shared computer they may be someone
else's files. Once done, Windows should automatically remake the
sub-directories the next time you or any other user deletes some files,
or perhaps sooner.


In my experience, when I empty the Recycle Bin, Windows frequently
leaves many files there as orphans, although the visual representation
of the Recycle Bin shows it to be empty. So, prompted by this thread, I
did an experiment just now.

With 87.5GB of files in the Recycle Bin, I used the normal context menu
to empty it. I was greeted with the 'Are you sure' dialog, then the
visual representation of files being deleted/removed, and finally the
icon changed to its Empty version. All good so far.

Next, I ran Treesize Free to check the size of the 'empty' Recycle Bin.
Windows said it was empty, but Treesize Free says it has 7.7GB, or 171
files, still there. That issue is not unusual. Like I said above,
Windows pretty frequently leaves orphans behind like that. Just now, I
used Treesize Free to delete them. I advise not touching the desktop.ini
file, nor the *-1000 account marker (or any other account markers).

Side note: for the paranoid among us, (not me, but you know who you
are), just emptying the Recycle Bin is no guarantee that you've gotten
rid of everything in the Recycle Bin. Use another tool, Treesize Free
for example, to get a second opinion.

https://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/


or, from the command line

cd $recycle.bin
attrib -s -h /s /d
del *.* /s /q
rd /s $recycle.bin

Works for me.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #12  
Old January 19th 19, 08:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

Frank Slootweg on 19 Jan 2019 17:52:39 GMT
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

[Myriad of problems when using robocopy to make backup of C:.]

It seems to me that robocopy is not the best tool for making backup of
a system drive (C.

I've always used a real backup program, i.e. a program designed for
that purpose - for the last five years Cobian Backup - and I have never
had the kind of problems you describe.

robocopy ('Robust File Copy for Windows') is a copy program, not a
backup program.

Perhaps using the right tool for the job will result in less
"screaming", "the way Microsoft rolls", "Fnord", "Arrgh.", etc.! :-)


Maybe I should n't have said "backup". Because I knew that all I
was doing was making copies of the files on the external drive.
"Someday" I will get around to making a True Backup(tm).

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #13  
Old January 19th 19, 10:48 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 11:11:07 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Char Jackson on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 09:04:48 -0600
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:54:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 19/01/2019 02:42, pyotr filipivich wrote:

But the fact remains, an "empty" recycle.bin had 7 gigs of files
in it.

Could have been files from another user, or yourself running a previous
version of Windows before an upgrade or reinstallation. Although you
may have to jump through some Permissions hoops, such as giving the
Administrators group ownership and then Full Control of the Recycle Bin
and all its subs, you can just delete all the sub-directories to get rid
of them, but be aware that on a shared computer they may be someone
else's files. Once done, Windows should automatically remake the
sub-directories the next time you or any other user deletes some files,
or perhaps sooner.


In my experience, when I empty the Recycle Bin, Windows frequently
leaves many files there as orphans, although the visual representation
of the Recycle Bin shows it to be empty. So, prompted by this thread, I
did an experiment just now.

With 87.5GB of files in the Recycle Bin, I used the normal context menu
to empty it. I was greeted with the 'Are you sure' dialog, then the
visual representation of files being deleted/removed, and finally the
icon changed to its Empty version. All good so far.

Next, I ran Treesize Free to check the size of the 'empty' Recycle Bin.
Windows said it was empty, but Treesize Free says it has 7.7GB, or 171
files, still there. That issue is not unusual. Like I said above,
Windows pretty frequently leaves orphans behind like that. Just now, I
used Treesize Free to delete them. I advise not touching the desktop.ini
file, nor the *-1000 account marker (or any other account markers).

Side note: for the paranoid among us, (not me, but you know who you
are), just emptying the Recycle Bin is no guarantee that you've gotten
rid of everything in the Recycle Bin. Use another tool, Treesize Free
for example, to get a second opinion.

https://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/


or, from the command line

cd $recycle.bin
attrib -s -h /s /d
del *.* /s /q
rd /s $recycle.bin

Works for me.


I don't use that method because I don't want to blindly blow the whole
thing away and let the system rebuild it from scratch. Instead, I want
to see what's in there before I do anything.

--

Char Jackson
  #14  
Old January 20th 19, 12:19 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Zaidy036[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 427
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

On 1/18/2019 3:24 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:


Doing backups. Very simple, one would think, a simple batchfile, the
important line of which is:

Robocopy c:\ I:backup /s /s /xo /XJ /np /ndl /w:1 /r:1 /Tee
/Log+:%Logfile%.rtf /xf *.bak *.lnk *.cat *.regtrans-ms *.tmp
pagefile.sys hiberfil.sys /xd C:\Windows

(Which being translated means copy drive C:\ to directory Backup on
drive I, include subdirectories, only copy those changed, exclude
junctions, don't show progress {% copied} wait 1 second if something
'fails" and repeat once if it does, where to log all this, don't copy
bak link &c do not copy anything in Directory "C:\Windows". )

It works. (Yeah!)

Unfortunately, despite having "emptied the recycle bin", there are
7 gigs of files copied from said "empty" recycle bin to
I:\Backup\$Recycle. And directory I:\Backup is now a hidden system
directory.
Apparently, when you copy one of the magic directories, it changes
everything else to also being a magic directory. I think that if I
had the toggle
/a-:SH
(unset attributes System and Hidden)
to the command line, it might work "right"

But that also leads to the other cause of my screaming.

From the command line, on drive D: there is a directory D:\Music.

But in the navigation panels, there is no such directory. Just
the Magic Name "My Music." Naturally,when you go and build a
batchfile to copy from "My Music" it can't find it. but when you do
get the command line correct, it copies not to I:\BackupD\Music, but
to "I:\BackupD\My Music". Never mind that you already have a
perfectly good directory which already has some of the files already
backuped, which need the rest of them copied over. Nope, duplication
of effort is the way Microsoft rolls.

And they want to tell me that this is "improving my computer
experience." Fnord, don't get me started on trying to fix the "no new
user profile" issue I'm having. I could have bought a new refurbished
computer and be up and running by now!

Arrgh.


Maybe Nircmd EmptyBin function will do better. From Nirsoft free utilities.

--
Zaidy036
  #15  
Old January 20th 19, 12:28 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default "Magic" directory names, How to "stop them" from propigating??

Char Jackson on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 15:48:29 -0600
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 11:11:07 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Char Jackson on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 09:04:48 -0600
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:54:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 19/01/2019 02:42, pyotr filipivich wrote:

But the fact remains, an "empty" recycle.bin had 7 gigs of files
in it.

Could have been files from another user, or yourself running a previous
version of Windows before an upgrade or reinstallation. Although you
may have to jump through some Permissions hoops, such as giving the
Administrators group ownership and then Full Control of the Recycle Bin
and all its subs, you can just delete all the sub-directories to get rid
of them, but be aware that on a shared computer they may be someone
else's files. Once done, Windows should automatically remake the
sub-directories the next time you or any other user deletes some files,
or perhaps sooner.

In my experience, when I empty the Recycle Bin, Windows frequently
leaves many files there as orphans, although the visual representation
of the Recycle Bin shows it to be empty. So, prompted by this thread, I
did an experiment just now.

With 87.5GB of files in the Recycle Bin, I used the normal context menu
to empty it. I was greeted with the 'Are you sure' dialog, then the
visual representation of files being deleted/removed, and finally the
icon changed to its Empty version. All good so far.

Next, I ran Treesize Free to check the size of the 'empty' Recycle Bin.
Windows said it was empty, but Treesize Free says it has 7.7GB, or 171
files, still there. That issue is not unusual. Like I said above,
Windows pretty frequently leaves orphans behind like that. Just now, I
used Treesize Free to delete them. I advise not touching the desktop.ini
file, nor the *-1000 account marker (or any other account markers).

Side note: for the paranoid among us, (not me, but you know who you
are), just emptying the Recycle Bin is no guarantee that you've gotten
rid of everything in the Recycle Bin. Use another tool, Treesize Free
for example, to get a second opinion.

https://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/


or, from the command line

cd $recycle.bin
attrib -s -h /s /d
del *.* /s /q
rd /s $recycle.bin

Works for me.


I don't use that method because I don't want to blindly blow the whole
thing away and let the system rebuild it from scratch. Instead, I want
to see what's in there before I do anything.


Good point. I figure, for myself, that if I have "emptied" the
Recycle.bin, anything in there is "scrap". YMMV
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.