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Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bit XPPro. SP3.



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 23rd 10, 01:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp
Ant[_3_]
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Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3. (OT -- Linux)

On 12/23/2010 4:14 AM PT, Alias typed:

Ah, that would be a pain for me since I am disabled.


How so?


I can't open my computer cases, use screw drivers, remove plugs due to
my hand/finger grasps (can insert plugs though), get inside, etc.
--
"Ants can lift up to 50 times their own weight. And your monitor is
missing. Time to bring out the bugspray." --BBspot's Geek Horoscopes
(2/28/2003)
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
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\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
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  #32  
Old December 23rd 10, 01:20 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.perform_maintain,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup
Ant[_3_]
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Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3.

On 12/23/2010 4:04 AM PT, Richard Owlett typed:

I heard that I can use the unused memory for other things like a RAM
drive for swap files, %temp%, etc. How do I do that?
[snip]


I suspect you heard a reference to expanded memory and/or extended
memory from DOS era. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanded_memory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_memory


Yes. I was told that using unused RAM like a RAM drive but others says
no in these newsgroups.
--
"After World War III, the ants will still be around." --unknown
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
  #33  
Old December 23rd 10, 02:24 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp
Alias[_48_]
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Posts: 363
Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3. (OT -- Linux)

On 12/23/2010 01:19 PM, Ant wrote:
On 12/23/2010 4:14 AM PT, Alias typed:

Ah, that would be a pain for me since I am disabled.


How so?


I can't open my computer cases, use screw drivers, remove plugs due to
my hand/finger grasps (can insert plugs though), get inside, etc.


And you have no one to help you?

--
Alias
  #34  
Old December 23rd 10, 03:38 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp
Ant[_3_]
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Posts: 873
Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3. (OT -- Linux)

On 12/23/2010 5:24 AM PT, Alias typed:

Ah, that would be a pain for me since I am disabled.

How so?


I can't open my computer cases, use screw drivers, remove plugs due to
my hand/finger grasps (can insert plugs though), get inside, etc.


And you have no one to help you?


Not all the time. I don't live with others so...
--
"Lay a stick of bubble gum on an anthill for instant Siamese Ant Twins."
--unknown
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
  #35  
Old December 23rd 10, 04:41 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp
Alias[_48_]
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Posts: 363
Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3. (OT -- Linux)

On 12/23/2010 03:38 PM, Ant wrote:
On 12/23/2010 5:24 AM PT, Alias typed:

Ah, that would be a pain for me since I am disabled.

How so?

I can't open my computer cases, use screw drivers, remove plugs due to
my hand/finger grasps (can insert plugs though), get inside, etc.


And you have no one to help you?


Not all the time. I don't live with others so...


Kernel and Grub uptakes do not need to be installed immediately. You can
wait until someone can come by and disconnect the other drive for you.

--
Alias
  #36  
Old December 23rd 10, 04:58 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp
Ant[_3_]
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Posts: 873
Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3. (OT -- Linux)

On 12/23/2010 7:41 AM PT, Alias typed:

Kernel and Grub uptakes do not need to be installed immediately. You can
wait until someone can come by and disconnect the other drive for you.


True, but I like to do things right away. Too bad there's no way to
tell BIOS to ignore the drive as if it was disconnected.
--
"The constant creeping of ants will wear away the stone." --unknown
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
  #37  
Old December 23rd 10, 06:49 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul
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Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3.

Ant wrote:
On 12/23/2010 4:04 AM PT, Richard Owlett typed:

I heard that I can use the unused memory for other things like a RAM
drive for swap files, %temp%, etc. How do I do that?
[snip]


I suspect you heard a reference to expanded memory and/or extended
memory from DOS era. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanded_memory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_memory


Yes. I was told that using unused RAM like a RAM drive but others says
no in these newsgroups.


There are two ways to get to memory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iommu

It's really a question of control. If you had control of the
entire OS and its facilities, then there are ways to get around
the limitation. Of course, if you had control of the OS, then
you wouldn't need all the silliness in the first place. (Just
use PAE, the way it was intended. That would give a 32 bit OS
access to up to 64GB of memory.)

What you're really looking for, is a back door left open by Microsoft,
that would allow bypassing the current limitation. Going back to
SP1, might be the quickest way to get there.

The bottom of this article, gives a hint. It uses a hardware card
and driver, to get at memory above 4GB.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx

"That means PAE-aware drivers can actually use physical space
above 4 GB if they want. For example, drivers could map the
“lost” memory regions located above 4 GB and expose this memory
as a RAM disk."

Now, even with those statements, that isn't a complete solution. To
make that into an "Extended" or "Expanded" kind of memory scheme,
and makes it seamless, still requires a lot of low level hooks being
left available by the OS. Just the ability for a PCI or PCI Express
card, to reach high memory, isn't a complete solution. You need the
same hooks, as are used for swapping virtual memory to disk. In a
sense, the OS would need to be made aware, that there was more than
4GB of memory in use. And what are the odds, that Microsoft
left that door open ? They wouldn't have imposed the limitation,
via translation tables, of 4GB, only to leave the ability to
use hardware DMA to expand the space.

The perfect vehicle for implementation, would be a PCI Express x16
video card. It would make a great DMA engine, with high transfer
speeds for block memory transfer. You could probably move data with
one of those, as fast as the memory subsystem could run (16GB/sec
best case, as PCI Express is full duplex). But you need a TLB miss,
to trigger your video card driver, to page in the requested memory.
Or something along those lines.

Paul
  #38  
Old December 24th 10, 07:28 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.perform_maintain,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup
mm
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Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bit XP Pro. SP3.

On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 15:10:51 -0800, Ant wrote:


Note that the hardware is using the address *space*, not the actual
RAM itself. If you have a greater amount of RAM, the rest of the RAM
goes unused because there is no address space to map it to.


Dang. So I can't use it at all for anything.


You could make a lamp out of it. Or a planter.


I heard that I can use the unused memory for other things like a RAM
drive for swap files, %temp%, etc. How do I do that?


Sorry, you heard wrong.


Bummer.


  #39  
Old December 24th 10, 08:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.perform_maintain,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup
Ant[_3_]
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Posts: 873
Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3.

On 12/24/2010 10:28 AM PT, mm typed:

Note that the hardware is using the address *space*, not the actual
RAM itself. If you have a greater amount of RAM, the rest of the RAM
goes unused because there is no address space to map it to.


Dang. So I can't use it at all for anything.


You could make a lamp out of it. Or a planter.


Hahah. No thanks! Only if it dies and I can't RMA it. I still want to
use it in the future. :P
--
"In a battle between elephants, the ants get squashed." --Thailand
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
  #40  
Old December 25th 10, 06:36 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.perform_maintain,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup
Yousuf Khan[_2_]
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Posts: 2,447
Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3.

On 22/12/2010 6:10 PM, Ant wrote:
On 12/22/2010 1:35 PM PT, Ken Blake, MVP typed:
Note that the hardware is using the address *space*, not the actual
RAM itself. If you have a greater amount of RAM, the rest of the RAM
goes unused because there is no address space to map it to.


Dang. So I can't use it at all for anything.


Why not upgrade to Windows 7 64-bit? What is it that you have that can't
run on it?

Yousuf Khan
  #41  
Old December 25th 10, 06:38 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Yousuf Khan[_2_]
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Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3.

On 22/12/2010 6:41 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
I can't even see why anyone even needs 2 GB of RAM with WindowsXP, unless
they are 1) either going to run 10 huge apps simultaneously, OR 2) use a
few Virtual PC sessions.

I've got that much (2 GB) now, and don't think it's ever been close to being
fully used (and I've done some video processing work too, although I'm not
using the highest end video processing apps like Adobe Premiere or Vegas
Pro, or comparable).

I check the memory usage in Task Manager on various occasions, and it never
gets even close to reaching the 2 GB I've got installed. So it seems 1 GB
seems quite sufficient, as I think has been reported by many others, too.


I've got 8GB installed on Win 7 64-bit, and I've often seen it go over
5GB usage. Usually that happens with buggy software running and eating
up memory.

Yousuf Khan
  #42  
Old December 25th 10, 07:46 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Yousuf Khan[_2_]
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Posts: 2,447
Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXPPro. SP3.

On 22/12/2010 6:27 PM, Paul wrote:
A 32 bit OS, can access more than 4GB of RAM, by using PAE. The
results you see today, are design and licensing considerations
by Microsoft. As currently set up, there isn't a way for your SP3
OS, to read or write to "high memory". But if you went back to
SP1 Service Pack, it might have been possible. (Or before
whatever Service Pack, brought support for DEP and NX.)

http://www.geoffchappell.com/viewer....nse/memory.htm


That link doesn't work, but I think I read it months before, so I
remember the gist of it. The PAE support is artificially limited by
Microsoft based on operating system licenses. For example, Windows XP's
and Windows Server 2003's PAE is limited to 4GB, while WinServ
Enterprise Ed 2003's PAE goes upto 32GB, and WinServ Datacenter Ed 2003
goes upto 64GB! These are all 32-bit operating systems too!

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...ae/paemem.mspx

64-bit Windows also all use the PAE extensions to access the memory
pages above 4GB, however they do it in a more homogeneous way, not
requiring any tricks to fool applications into operating out of their
normal ranges. In this case the PAE isn't a kludge like in 32-bit OSes,
but rather just the standard access method of 64-bit.

Yousuf Khan
  #43  
Old December 25th 10, 12:30 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.perform_maintain,microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup
Ant[_3_]
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Posts: 873
Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3.

On 12/24/2010 9:36 PM PT, Yousuf Khan typed:

Note that the hardware is using the address *space*, not the actual
RAM itself. If you have a greater amount of RAM, the rest of the RAM
goes unused because there is no address space to map it to.


Dang. So I can't use it at all for anything.


Why not upgrade to Windows 7 64-bit? What is it that you have that can't
run on it?


I used it at work, and didn't see anything important. I use old stuff
and don't need the fancy stuff. Old stuff like PowerVCR II for my old
analog TV tuner card, ASUS TV Tuner Card 880 NTSC (cx23880), etc. I also
did not want to reinstall/find new ones if unsupported in W7,
reconfigure, etc. Since XP SP3 is still supported, I will just wait a
few more years.
--
"We have to break with what must be broken with once and for all... and
we have to take the suffering upon ourselves... Freedom and power--power
above all. Power over all the tumbling vermin and over all the
ant-hill!" --Fedor Dostoevsky
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
  #44  
Old December 25th 10, 12:34 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Ant[_3_]
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Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3.

On 12/24/2010 9:38 PM PT, Yousuf Khan typed:

I've got 8GB installed on Win 7 64-bit, and I've often seen it go over
5GB usage. Usually that happens with buggy software running and eating
up memory.


Which buggy softwares from your side? The only ones that leak for me is
Mozilla's SeaMonkey v2.0.11 since I use it like crazy (multiple
extensions, crazy numbers of tabs at once, etc.) and Outlook 2007 at
work and home with both updated XP Pro. SP3 (home) and 64-bit W7 HP (work).
--
"Bother," said Winnie the Pooh, as the ants devoured him.
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
  #45  
Old December 25th 10, 12:41 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Ant[_3_]
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Posts: 873
Default Using my extra RAM for other things in an old, updated 32-bitXP Pro. SP3.

On 12/22/2010 3:27 PM PT, Paul typed:

A couple days ago, I upgraded my old 32-bit Windows XP Pro. SP3 (IE6)
system/computer/system to an Intel i7 with 6 GB of RAM. I know that
32-bit operating systems/OS' cannot see all that RAM due to old
software designs' limitations. Currently, my working Windows only sees
about 2.5 GB of physical RAM (shouldn't it be 3 GB though?).

I heard that I can use the unused memory for other things like a RAM
drive for swap files, %temp%, etc. How do I do that?

And yes, I will get 64-bit W7 or another OS one day. At this time, I
am not going to do that since XP Pro. SP3 does fine for what I need.

Thank you in advance.


A 32 bit OS, can access more than 4GB of RAM, by using PAE. The
results you see today, are design and licensing considerations
by Microsoft. As currently set up, there isn't a way for your SP3
OS, to read or write to "high memory". But if you went back to
SP1 Service Pack, it might have been possible. (Or before
whatever Service Pack, brought support for DEP and NX.)

http://www.geoffchappell.com/viewer....nse/memory.htm


Ah, not possible in SP2 and SP3. Interesting. Back in SP1 and no SP, did
it allow extra memory to be used as RAM disk drive?
--
"Maybe it's like an ant hive..." "Bees man, bees have hives." "You know
what I mean. It's like one female that runs the whole show." "Yes, the
queen." "Yeah the mamma. She is bad*ss, man. I mean big." "These things
ain't ants estupido." "I know that." --Aliens movie
/\___/\ Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
 




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